Annie - please help

[mommato4tob]

Hi Annie, i'm new to this board.  I have been scouring these posts since i stumbled onto it earlier today.  You seem to be very knowledgeable about all this stuff.  I posted my story a few hours ago under a heading about prenatal paternity testing.  If you get a chance, could you look over it and let me know what you think?  Thanks so much!!

[AnnieBrooke]

If you will not be able to keep your job without a man in the picture to provide night care, well, you are saying you probably aren't going to be able to keep your job.  Maybe Mister Nice is nice, but he isn't your boyfriend any more, and if this is a baby that is basically sprung on him, it would be surprising if he would be willing to do long-term night childcare so you can raise the child.  (I mean for a simple example, what if he wanted to get married to someone?)   And if you have a job with seniority, benefits (for you and especially the kids) and security, do you know how rare that is in the world today?  I sure wouldn't do anything to jeopardize that, with all of your other kids relying on it as well as yourself.

I had thought of suggesting adoption to you in my last post, but didn't want to make you hit the ceiling.  But adoption would sure be a wonderful thing to do, whoever is the dad, if the other option is having your kids shaken out of their present life and you go on public assistance.  Nobody ever got ahead and pulled their family out of poverty on public assistance.  And as you said, there are SO many desperate parent wannabes out there and so few babies.  If you decided on adoption by the time you spoke to the kids, you could even posit it to them [if you felt like you had to] as almost the same as being a surrogate mother, helping some lonely, sad couple who are aching to have a baby of their own.  As someone who dealt with infertility for years, I can tell you, it is a desperate feeling.  So many nights I just prayed that I would hear of some girl in church or the family who was (as the old-fashioned saying had it) "in trouble" and I would be able to be the one who adopted the baby.  One time I even heard of one who was, and she had already made a commitment to someone, and they were able to adopt her twins, I cried the night I heard that.  That's how hard it can be on the person who wants to be a parent and can't.  Please do think of this as a serious option.   Adoption can be structured for the needs of the individuals involved ... open adoption is very common, and half-siblings can go through life knowing of each other and can get together as adults if they would like.  You might not be as up against a wall as you think, and it might be the making of a wonderful life for the baby.

[mommato4tob]

I have spend many weeks agonizing over the decision of abortion.  And morally, i just can't do it.  I would never forgive myself.  I have spent countless nights crying myself to sleep only to have awful nightmares.  It's a complicated situation to get into, but basically if i have help - financially and physically i know i can continue to work and provide for my kids.  I have a great job as far as being civil service - job security, health and life insurance for myself and my kids, a pension and so on.  If i did not receive financial help for daycare, i could not afford the added expense for daycare on my day shifts.  And i work rotating days and nights.  Night daycare does not exist.  So if the dad is not in the picture, i could not logically keep my job.  Which affects my whole family.  I think if it is the guy who will not help, i could go through with an adoption, as hard at that seems.  There are so many wonderful couples out there who cannot have children.  I am just dead set on finding out paternity because of my kids.  It's going to be hard enough to explain to them why i am pregnant by a man who, though i was in a relationship with, it wasn't long term.  I am so fearful of being a bad example to my kids.  And i know i should have thought of that ahead of time - though i did use protection (condoms) with both - and obviously there was a failure somewhere.  If it is the other guy, i have to figure out how to prep them for an adoption talk and some even harder questions i will have to answer.  I absolutely need to find out somehow.  This is torture.

[AnnieBrooke]

Another ultrasound now would probably still be useful for dating, it would only be off by a few days if you could get it soon (if it is off at all).  What I am wondering is, are you sure of having the child no matter who is the dad?  How strongly does it play into your decision if the baby is from Mister Nice who isn't expecting to have a kid but will probably help out financially versus Mister Jerk who doesn't want anything to do with the possibility?  I'm wondering this because what will you do if you go through the whole pregnancy hoping that it's Mister Nice's baby and then it becomes clear that it is the child of Mister Jerk?  

[mommato4tob]

Sorry, forgot to answer part.  No other ultrasound yet.  But i am assuming when i get one it won't be that useful for dating.  From what i have read, the earlier the ultrasound, the more accurate the date.  Though i wonder why they didn't take measurements at planned parenthood?  Maybe it was just to confirm pregnancy before counseling?  

[mommato4tob]

I called my regular OB after i visited planned parenthood, but wasn't sure what decision i was going to make yet.  The nurse was very mean and condescending - told me i was wasting her time and to call back when i was sure about what i was going to do.  I finally got up the courage to call back today.  I have a nursing appointment for tomorrow, but the doctors first available appt isn't until March 1st.  Hoping i can get a cancellation before then.
I really didn't have the money to do the test either - i put it on a credit card.  I have been online doing research all day and found out that there are only two companies in the US that are accredited to do prenatal paternity. One is ravgen and the other is the DNA diagnostic center.  I spoke to the medical director at one of those companies this morning.  He stated that he has retested several samples from the company i used (DNA Plus) - 3 this year alone.  All 3 from this year had given the wrong paternity.  They also have contract with a company who performs traditional paternity testing after birth and that company has had 12 wrong cases from DNA plus in the last calender year.  He also said that the company has operated under 6 different names due to lawsuits.  I am totally freaking out about potentially having paid $1300 to a scam artist on top of the original dilemma.  

[AnnieBrooke]

Fertile window is based on the life of the sperm.  If someone has sex on Tuesday, the sperm can live until Sunday, and if you're merely counting from the first day of the last period (instead of because of having measured in an early ultrasound, which is more definite) a first-day-of-period based count is not going to be as reliable since women ovulate whenever.  

People coming to this community with questions about who the babydaddy is, don't usually do the pre-natal blood-based tests because they are so expensive.  So I hear very little about their accuracy.  One other time a woman wrote me (I'm not sure our conversation was on the site, though, I think she pm'ed me) and said she had done it and the place they went seemed very dodgy and like they didn't know for sure what they were doing.  But the DNA test came out as she had thought it would, so it did work.

Have you gotten any other ultrasounds besides the one at Planned Parenthood?  I'm not talking about 3D, just a good one at your regular doctor?

[mommato4tob]

Sorry, one more question.  If i have an ovulation date of the 18th, i don't get what that fertile window is.  Doesn't an egg only live for 24 hours?  

[mommato4tob]

Thanks Annie.  I had an ultrasound done on january 7th, but it was at planned parenthood.  I had initially planned to terminate, but after some serious soul-searching, just couldn't bring myself to do it.  They didn't do any measurements, just asked me what the date of my last period was.  At the time i hadn't thought to call CVS and run my extracare card to see when i purchased tampons.  So i'm not sure if they just based the fetal age on what i estimated my LMP to be.  The ultrasound on 01/07 stated i was 9 weeks, 4 days pregnant.  But basically afterwards, checking my purchase, i believe i started my period on probably the 4th or 5th, since i bought tampons on the 6th and went almost all the way through a jumbo box.  If i did, the ovulation calculator puts my date of ovulation around 11/18.  Which is 6 days later than i had sex with the other guy.  Also, the baby is a boy.  I have since read that male sperm only live 3 days as opposed to female sperm that can live up to 5.  I'm not sure whether to believe this guy about the vasectomy - supposedly he had it done after he had his 3rd.  He is a gang unit cop in a major city, so i would hope he's not enough of a scumbag to lie about it.  But you never know.
Besides that, has anyone you have run into on these boards used the non-invasive paternity testing?  If so, what has been the general consensus about it?  Also, would paying to have a 3D or 4D ultrasound done provide more accurate dating?

[AnnieBrooke]

*all of you, the kids and you I mean.  

[AnnieBrooke]

I would tend to think the baby is the product of the ex-boyfriend and not the one-night stand, even if your unreliable DNA test said the ex was not the dad.  At least, I would feel like this until the baby is born and you get a DNA test that is from a certified lab and will hold up in court.  I do not think you can trust the one-night stand guy's assertion that he had a vasectomy two months prior to the event ... if so, it seems like he would have mentioned the fact if nooky were in the offing, and even if not, a guy who has three kids by three different women and offers to drive you to an abortion clinic?  We are not talking an Eagle Scout.  I also get (from calculators) an ovulation date of around the 18th.  Though the plus-or-minus is 4 days, it seems marginally more likely to be your ex's baby.  

As far as what to tell the kids, I guess you tell them you're pregnant, and (if they ask) that you assume the dad to be your boyfriend.  But that all of you are going to be a family together no matter what.  Leave the more complicated explanations for another day.

[mommato4tob]

Thank you so much for responding.  After doing research, the top two i found were Revgen and DNA diagnostic center.  Wishing i had used one of those initially!  The company i used is the only one i found negative reviews on.  I was just wondering if it rung a bell with you.  And yes, i was with my ex when he swabbed his cheek.  I watched him do it.  Sorry to beg for a quick answer, i'm sure you are very busy - so i truly appreciate you responding quickly!!!  Going to check out that link now.

[AnnieBrooke]

DNA Plus was not one of the top two companies named that are spoken of more highly than the ones who have been selling tests online for a few years.  Here is the link to the article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/health/paternity-blood-tests-that-work-early-in-a-pregnancy.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Will get back soon.

[AnnieBrooke]

Hi, mommato4tob, I have only a limited amount of time tonight as I'm expected to be somewhere.  I had read your earlier posts, and did want to quickly drop you a line about blood tests done before the baby is born (I'll get back to you a bit later about the rest of what you wrote).  I looked up the pre-natal blood-based paternity tests a while back for another person who wrote in, and came up with a pretty good article that essentially said there have been such tests offered on the Internet for several years, but all of those were pretty crummy, but it did name two better companies that are developing blood-based tests as looking more credible.  However, it said that even those two companies have not gotten their tests certified to be accepted in court.  (Which, of course, is the gold standard for such a test.)  One of those two companies is in the process of applyinig to get their test certified for court purposes, so at least it thinks it has a good product.  That said, I don't think the name you mentioned is the name of the company they mentioned as doing that.

I'll look in my bookmarks and see if I bookmarked the original article, and if you want, you could possibly go to the search line for MedHelp and key in "prenatal blood based paternity tests" and see if anything comes up -- you might find the older posts I wrote about them.  But I don't think I mentioned any names in any case.  You can also scan this DNA/Paternity community ... I think because it's a new community, it probably only has a few pages at this point, and you look at the posts and see if any of them are on this topic.

My first thought on reading your post was to wonder if you went with the guy and actually saw him swab his mouth.  It would be awfully easy to have a buddy go to the lab for you if you didn't want to be a daddy.

Anyway, will get back to you.

Annie