Depression/Mental Health Forum
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Avatar universal

Effexor XR

I've been taking Effexor for about 2 years and am weaning off the medication right now. Actually I should just say I am stoping the medication cold turkey, since I am just not taking any pills at all each day. Yes, there are side effects. Are the side effects so severe that a person cannot tolerate them? Absolutely not. You need to tough it out, get this drug out of your system, and start exercising 5 times a week, especially cardiovascular exercise. Don't listen to all these doctors who tell you Effexor is the answer to your problems. It absolutely is not the answer. Regular cardio exercise 4-5 times a week is a better way of healing yourself than taking these ******** medications for the rest of your life. And Effexor will raise your blood pressure. You need to ask yourself do you want to take these medications forever, or do you want to live a happy lifestyle without using these overrated antidepressants. Just do the best you can when you get off this drug. Each week that passes will get better and better without this medication in your system. Definitely exercise while you are going through the withdrawal. You can handle it. Do not think these doctors know it all. They absolutely do not. They don't even take the medications themselves but write out prescriptions like they are some sort of expert in feeling the effects of them. In my opinion I would just stay away from antidepressants and stay close to healthy eating and exercise, especially running. Take multi-vitamins, drink lots of water, eat fruits, vegetables and exercise at least 4 times a week with at least 30 minutes of cardio, 3 times a week. You do not need Effexor in your life.
26 Responses
242532 tn?1269553979
I welcome your strong opinion, and the equally strong  opinions that have already been posted as reply.  Its the question of balance and usefulness...I personally think that simply medications without therapy is a bad policy..But medications with therapy, used discretely, is a good policy..hope that helps...
604266 tn?1236362585
I think you may have accidently posted in the wrong forum. This is the expert forum where members come to ask the expert questions.

But while you've brought up the subject psychiatrists and doctors don't use anti-depressants or any other psychotropics unless for a chronic consition such as schizophrenia or other conditions people may experience chronically for life, as answers.

Psychotropics like effexor, celexa, cybalta..even anti-anxieties like Buspar, xanax, klonopin...they're all ment to be used as support while someone is in therapy and working on the issues they'd like to work on. When someone is having a hard time due to certain events or just a hard time in general, an AD may be prescribed to help support the person while they go through the process of therapy and then when they feel they are better equipt to deal with things, or have learned new coping skills they are taken off he medications.

So yes, the exersize and all you mentioned are great ways to support recovery and add to your treatment. But the answers are not the same for everyone and sometimes people need a but more support from meds while they go through the process of working on issues.

There is nothing wrong with using that psychotropic support when you need it and infact for many it's an extreamly smart choice. Speaking for myself and what I'm going through right now and how much I detest pills..the smartedt thing I'bve done is excepting that while I'm in therapy I need some extra support from medications like AD'S and anti-amxieties so my symptoms don't hault my theraputic progress or interfere in that progress in any other way.

But as I said things are different fro everyone. But there's nothing wrong woth taking every oppertunitly available to help yourself when your going through a hard time, including using exersixe and other at home teachiniques as long as they're safe and your doctor is okay with them. (like for instance people prefer herbal remedies along with psychotropic ones, but that's nlt always safe).

I hope you find that your prefrences for treatment work for you. But please understand that everyone is different and taking advantage of extra support when it's available can really help people overcome what's going on while they work things out through therapy.

All the best, Amph
Avatar universal
I disagree with your comment that things will improve week by week without medication in a person's system.  Certainly they might, but I think it is extremely unlikely.
I am not a huge fan of medication, but I think it has a role.

I think your views kind of fall in line with previous ones I held.

When I was first formally diagnosed with depression I was training for a marathon.  (Running did not help).
I was offered numerous trials of anti-depressants which I refused.  And when I was forced to take them I stopped them at the first opportunity with no taper.  It is possible to stop but probably isn't advisable.
(The last time I did this I went mountain climbing the next day and had a headache, felt dizzy and nauseous for most of the climb.  They could have been symptoms from being hit on the head with a lump of 8-2 (piece of wood), but whatever, I felt pretty miserable).

Anyway, I didn't take medication (was running and eating healthily).  My GP once read me this letter the psychiatrist had sent.  He said he felt I should know what was being said about me.  It mentioned a lot of depressive features including fatiguability (which I used to motivate myself while I was running) and queried 'even possible psychotic features'.

I didn't take meds, was sectioned, discharged, od'ed, had my leave revoked and was threatened with ect.

I think taking medication (and engaging in therapy) could have changed these outcomes and eliminated the resultant trauma.

I think our own unwillingness to take medication highlights maladaptive beliefs we hold about ourselves and others.

I think everybody's goal is to achieve wellness.  I think that is a process though and that there are multiple ways it can be achieved.  Everybody is different (unique).

I think most good doctors will appreciate they don't have all the answers and will respect their own limits.

I think therapy has been an over-looked component to wellness in your post.

I think people do the best they can with the skills they have at the time.
(Perhaps your skill levels/ degree of insights have also changed over the two years since you started this medication??)

Avatar universal
If you take medication such as Effexor XR and feel the highs from it then you definitely need to be able to tolerate the lows of getting off it. There is no free lunch in this type of business. You have to take responsibility for your decisions.

And as far as running. It's very obvious that it opens up your cardio vascular system and releases endorphins naturally that make you feel better.

Training for a marathon?? You disagree that things will get better the longer the medication is out of your system? That doesn't make too much sense. But I guess everyone is different. Bottom line is you need to tough it out. Depending what type of a trauma a person has suffered in his or her life, that has a big role as well.

One thing is for certain. You definitely do not want to take Effexor XR for the rest of your life. Big mistake.
Avatar universal
Everyone has their own opinion. And the word "Expert" is very relative. One would want to be an expert in exercise, both cardio and strength training, good healthy diet, drinking lots of water each day and staying positive rather than be an expert in popping Effexor XR each day and think that'll change your life.

One thing that I learned when going to doctors is that they know absolutely nothing about exercise and about the types of foods to eat to keep a person's body healthy. Ever hear a doctor mention that you should be drinking a half ounce of water per pound of bodyweight? Be your own doctor and read books about proper diet and exercise. Running several times a week will dramatically alter your system in a very positive way.
You have to get yourself into a groove and be very independent about your goals. But if you are not exercising at least 3 or 4 times a week,  just forget about the whole thing.
Avatar universal
I hope you didn't take my post to be a personal attack on you and your views.  I was merely stating my own observations based on my own experiences and opinions.

The medication you speak of is one I was not trialled on.  I speak of side-effects, withdrawal, etc generally based on my experience of medications over a range of classes (mainly the ssri's but also some of the older classes).

Your comment made me think of physics and 'what goes up must come down'.
The only thing resembling a high I have experienced from taking medication was from buspirone (an anti-anxiety medication).  I felt my thoughts were racing (some of which seemed 'pretty' intellectual for me).  At the time I used the word manic to describe how I felt.  There were other symptoms also and they were some of the most distressing I've ever felt from a med.

I don't think there should be a need to tolerate withdrawal.  If it is done appropriately then side-effects should be kept to a minimum.

The thing I've learned from having made many disastrous decisions is that ultimately you are responsible for yourself.  You and only you.

I've done some studies in sport and exercise science.  I'm aware of the benefits of exercise.

I was given an article to read today based on an article by Dr Rob Fry, a senior anaesthetist.  The article is entitled The pursuit of happiness.  Here is an excerpt.
  "The right lifestyle choices can also aid happiness by improving brain chemistry.  Try to get 7-8 hours sleep a night, preferably going to sleep before 10.30pm to boost your melatonin.  Laughter, sex, aerobic exercise and pleasant thoughts produce endorphins; exercising in sunshine strengthens the immune system; and relaxation, spirituality and exercise boost serotonin levels, elevating mood".

I was training for a marathon at the time.  I've since done half's.  (I'm thinking about doing an ironman in 2010).
I'm all for natural stuff.  I think medication can potentially help us with managing our symptoms though.  I'll give you an example.  I get extremely stressed and anxious and have a tendency to repeat things.  Last year I missed the start of my half marathon (which frustrated me no end, especially as I can be extremely competitive) because I was stuck repeating things.
If medication helps us manage our symptoms and allows us to work through them in therapy, then yes, I think it has a role.
I am typically very adverse to taking medication but at times I feel it offers the only respite or hope.
Would you choose to take medication if it gave you the freedom to live your hopes and dreams?

I'm not sure exactly why I'm defending medication but I think it does have a role.

Because you are drug-free it doesn't mean you don't have issues.  Pills are not magic cures.  I think it's ignorant to suggest that life will improve without addressing issues.
I am more concerned about a persons ability to function.  Ideally, I would like to see people achieve and overcome issues without resorting to medication.  Sometimes it is necessary though.
Medication is only a tool, a stepping stone, so to speak.

I believe I am mentally tough and mental illness has humbled me.
I believe when toughening it out you dig a deeper hole/ rut for yourself.
Didn't Einstein say we needed to solve problems on a different level to that which they existed??

I see what you mean.  Yes, I think it's more important to be well-versed in making healthy lifestyle choices.  Sometimes that does include taking medication though.

When I've spoken to people from communities with the same mental health issues as me, I'm one of the few who hasn't taken medication religiously.

In my experience doctors have been knowledgeable about such things.  Certainly most doctors I've seen have been fit and healthy and have been ready to pass on information.  One didn't appear so healthy but I didn't like him much anyway.  I read this thing somewhere and so I imagine him in a diaper with a rattle in a mall.  It makes me feel I have more power over him (or my memory of him, etc).

The only book I tend to read about healthy eating at the moment is Dr Gould's book, Shrink Yourself: Free yourself from emotional eating forever.  (I think that's the title, I'm not 100% confident though).

I don't think exercising is the be all and end all.
For me, without addressing the underlying issues I can't exercise.  (This is coming from someone who use to seriously over-train).
Mental health issues messes everything up.

At the moment I'm working on identifying negative emotions and working to more effectively problem-solve.  Making things work for me and not against me.

Did you want to discuss your experiences, etc with this medication??
Why did you start it?  Why are you so ?angry now?  How has it affected you and your life?
What happened for you to decide to stop taking it now?

604266 tn?1236362585
Hey J, I was reading at the exact moment you wrote. Quick question..you actually felt some sort of High from Bupar?

That's interesting to me. First because I have an obsession with meds and how they work in the body(not  to mention my phobia of pills). But also because I've taken Buspar on and off for 7 years and the only thing that ever felt strange was my teeth(and I have no idea what that was about).
Come to think of it...I don't think I've ever felt an immedicate effect from any med except for IV pain meds. But even my xanax and now klonopin...I just feel normal.

I wonder if it has to do with if you need the medication or not. Like for instance..someone who took a dose of my pain meds would be high as a kite but because my pain is so severe I only feel pain relief. So because my anxiety/panic is so high the xanax and bupsar don't effect me in that way....
Just a random thought..

I don't want to clog up Dr. Goulds forum with my nonsensical random thoughts
Avatar universal
Here's a great piece of advice for you. Drink a half ounce of water per pound of your bodyweight, every single day. Yes, you will urinate often in the beginning, but eventually less after your body becomes used to the extra consumption.

Critical part of living a healthy life is drinking the CORRECT amount of water each day to keep yourself hydrated. You will not hear this from most people because more than 99 percent of people have no idea what they are talking about.

If you weigh 150 pounds, you should be drinking 75 ounces of water, every single day. Your urine should be very light yellow or clear. You will definitely feel the difference after a week in how your body feels. A nice positive difference. Take Multi-Vitamins every single day and take a 500 mg capsule of vitamin C every day along with your Multi-Vitamin.

You should definitely be doing some type of cardio exercise, at least 3 times per week for a minimum of 30 minutes per session. Eat more berries and vegetables in your diet. Eat only wheat bread and no white bread. Eat lean meats, turkey, chicken, cans of tuna. The cardio will significantly enhance your cardiovascular system.

I noticed when taking Effexor XR it would always make me tired and hindered my performance in the gym. It's a good medication for a person with severe depression who has no other choice, but if you have a choice, stay away from Effexor and follow the guidelines I've listed above. You'll begin to feel a much better way of living.
Avatar universal
Hi Amph
I don't know if I had symptoms relating to my teeth.  I had a sore jaw but I put that down to a consequence of having had my wisdom teeth out earlier in the year.
I'm stunned by the fact you feel you've never had an immediate side-effect from medication.
I'm extremely sensitive about my body so perhaps I'm more aware of changes??  I think some changes are physiological but some are also psychological.  In my case I would go as far as saying they are probably the opposite of placebo, nocebo (I'm not sure about the spelling.  I think it had an s in it).  I typically only attribute negative characteristics/ side-effects to medications.

Maybe you feel normal because normal for you has become medicated.
If you don't feel change though, why take it?

I don't think it is related to need.  Well maybe some, but not all.
I think it would sound strange if I told the doctor I didn't need an anti-depressant because I had side-effects from it.  I can still be depressed and have a reaction to the medication.
I think it is more about how our bodies metabolize drugs, etc.  And other factors.

I don't think this is a coagulated mess.
I think people have the option of reading, or not.  It is a decision they make.
I like that people can interact.  To be honest I think it's a bit sterile when there's only one response to a post.  I like that people can feel safe and secure in sharing.


To goodhealth100

Thank you for the advice.

I don't think there is a 'correct' amount of water to drink.  I think as with all things there is a balance.

I personally don't use supplements.  I believe most nutrients can be obtained through a healthy, balanced diet.  This can be affected by where you live though.  For example, in our area we're deficient in selenium.

Even healthy food isn't always healthy.  Some fish has been found to have extremely high levels of mercury, etc.  Chickens can be fed growth hormones and antibiotics, etc.

Typically if you stick to the fresh, non-processed stuff you're doing OK.

I stopped taking buspirone because I felt it was affecting my energy levels and although I was still running it made it an effort and it ceased to be even remotely enjoyable.

I think people always have choices.  (Even when there are limits).

I still believe therapy can be helpful and should be an integral part of recovery.

Thanks again for all your advice.

604266 tn?1236362585
LOL, you just made me shuckle by saying maybe I feel normal because my normal is being medicated:):) That's cute I'm ure I can come up with some cute little pumpersticker saying to go with it..Like my favorite...."I'm trying to be the person my psychiatrists medicates me to be"

I just think those sayings are cute.
Anyway...if I'd always been on meds like these I'd say maybe your right. But U had never taken a xanax or atican until a few months ago. I used to take klonopin but was so afraid of it I'd cut it up into tiney tiny pieces which weren't even close to therapustic doses.
I'm honestly think I'm some freak of nature/science I guess would be a better term. The only meds that have eber had an immediate effect om ne are IV pain meds and Vesed before surgery(that one they should bottle and make everyone in teh world take it at the same time...wars would end...Us and Chins would love one another). But I've actually fought through anestesia to tell the doctors my head hurt and no others meds seem to sedate me or give me a "high". It's not as if they don't work. The xanax called my racing heart which gave me time to calm down after a flashback(same with the klonoon though on klonopin I don't have panic attacks at all since it's a 12 hour med plus I was suing it the wrong way because of a mistake on teh bottle..ooops).
So they work...I just don't feel any immediate effects as most people describe. And that's good for me because my pill phobia has to do with side effects and feeling out of control of my body, like when I've had to have IV pain meds I avoid it at all costs because I fell I'm not in control of my own body or thoughts. So I suppose if my oral pain meds and antu-anxiety meds had that effects on me I would refuse totake them.
I'm just strangely unable to be sedated. Even ambien/Lunesta. They don't sedate me. They for some reason take away my nightmares(I guess because they plug into the bezo receptors) but who knows because ambien isn't known to even be active past 3 hours and I never go right to sleep because it doesn't make me tired.

I've always thought, maybe I have some biological(neurological) problem that keeps me from being sedated. Even when I was very young my parents would tell me I would barely sleep. I was an insomniac at 5.

But def the meds are working, just not in a punch me out powerful immediate way. But I'm requesting to be tapered off klonopin as I'm not a fan of bezos even with my flashbacks and panic attacks. I tried to convince my doc not to give me xanax but she refused and got upset when I was only taken half her prescription. I've always refused bezos. I just don't like them for some reason. Maybe it's a psychological reason..but nonetheless I'd rather deal with my panic on my own as I always have and if I'm in crisis then use one or two. But daily...it's just not for me. Plus with my pain pills...it would be wasy for me to be a zombie if I took all my meds at the same time so I don't like knowing that either.

But I agree with you J. Actaully studies have shown that the amount of water a person needs is equal to their activity level and teh climate they live in, not body mass. So me for instance. With pain some days I'm bed bound in a cool house which means to stay hydrated my body needs less water than someone who's running around or in the heat swearting. That 8 glasses a day is a myth also.

It is possible to maintain a healthy body without having a picture perfect diet. I'm not allowed many many foods including all fruits and some veggies and I rarely take suppliments because if I feel my body is lacking something I break my diet and eat a bannanna for my muscles or have a sweet potatoe for vitamin C. There are a TON od nutriants in foods and since my body is "llergic" to some of them, I have to go without and I'm still as healthy as can be with a chronic disease which is what limits my food choices.

I'll say for me..I drink just enough water to stay hydrated and no more(I have a bladder ddisease) I can't exersize as I used to and I eat all natural organic foods, the ones I can and have been very healthy (knowcking on wood). I do take psychotropics and do attend psychoanalysis both of which I find very beneficial. And although there is a huge, mind, bdy and soul connection and I believe everything intertwines together, whatever steps someone feels they should take for themselves to maintain the best quality of life they can have is okay.
And that goes for your prefrences goodhealth, J's preferences. mine and the Dr's for his patients as doctors have prefrences also when it comes to treating clients/patients (I know my psycoanalysis sure does!
Avatar universal
Well with your response to the correct amount of water you obviously are with the more than 99 percent of people who have no idea what they are talking about. And yes, you absolutely must be drinking a half ounce of water per pound of bodyweight, every single day. Your body is mostly made up of water and if not given the correct amount it does not act properly, nor feel as it should.

Did you ever try drinking a half ounce of water per your pound of bodyweight, every single day? If you have never done it that you cannot make an accurate assessment of the effects of it.

I've taken Buspar also a long time ago. It's not as strong as Xanax but it did help me when I needed it.

Let's get on to cigarettes and alcohol. Those are about the worst drugs that anyone can take. And it's funny how you can walk into any store and buy as much as you want of it and destroy your body as much as you want without anyone caring at all.

Why do the people in Okinawa, Japan live the longest compared to anyone else in the world? Their diets consist of mostly vegetables and fish. They have the highest rate of people living over 100 years old in the entire world. Research the life expectancy charts online and you'll see the different countries and on average how long those people live.

If you hadn't noticed already we live in a society where people flock to fast food and then act clueless as to why they are obese and feel lethargic when they go out to bars and get drunk and do not integrate any cardio activity into their lifestyles.

You really need to research the water requirement though. It's more important than you can imagine. What is very funny to me is that out of all the various therapists I've spoken to throughout my life, not 1, NOT 1, ever mentioned that. Most just sat back with a piece of paper and pen, jotted down notes of my answers to their questions and advised medications that they said would make me feel better. They are intelligent people obviously, going through medical school and obtaining those respectable degrees by comleting those rigorous programs, but when it comes to proper diet and exercise most are clueless in that subject because it is not their area of expertise.

They do help people out though, and that is something you must respect.  

>>>>>>>Thank you for the advice.

I don't think there is a 'correct' amount of water to drink.  I think as with all things there is a balance.

I personally don't use supplements.  I believe most nutrients can be obtained through a healthy, balanced diet.  This can be affected by where you live though.  For example, in our area we're deficient in selenium.

Even healthy food isn't always healthy.  Some fish has been found to have extremely high levels of mercury, etc.  Chickens can be fed growth hormones and antibiotics, etc.

Typically if you stick to the fresh, non-processed stuff you're doing OK.

I stopped taking buspirone because I felt it was affecting my energy levels and although I was still running it made it an effort and it ceased to be even remotely enjoyable.

I think people always have choices.  (Even when there are limits).

I still believe therapy can be helpful and should be an integral part of recovery.

Thanks again for all your advice.

J <<<<<<<<
604266 tn?1236362585
Okay this can go on forever and clog up Dr. Goulds forums. People smoke, people drink alcogol, people use therapy, people take psychotropics and people gydrate theselves as tehy feel is appropraite for their bodies.

But this isn't a forum we should be lecturing one another on the exact amounts of water one needs and the evils of smoking and having a glass of wine(which is actually healthy for you by the way).

Either this thread needs to be moved so we can continue to discuss this or we should start a new thread in another forum because were totally going around and around on the experts forum.

No disrespect twords anyone on this thread..I just don't want to keep going in circles on Dr.Goulds forum. So why don't we start a thread in another forum?
Is that okay with everyone.

How about you start it goodhealth and let us know where it is..?
Avatar universal

That glass of a wine a day thing is a big myth. Wine makes your heart better? LOL. Get real. Alcohol is very toxic and perhaps one of the most toxic drugs you can put into your system.

You cannot compare drinking a glass of wine a day to running a few miles in terms of improving your heart health and cardiovascular system. The best beverage you can put into your body is water. And that's it for now. I can't give you anymore free advice. I'd have to charge you money for it.

Peace out.

>>>>Okay this can go on forever and clog up Dr. Goulds forums. People smoke, people drink alcogol, people use therapy, people take psychotropics and people gydrate theselves as tehy feel is appropraite for their bodies.

But this isn't a forum we should be lecturing one another on the exact amounts of water one needs and the evils of smoking and having a glass of wine(which is actually healthy for you by the way).

Either this thread needs to be moved so we can continue to discuss this or we should start a new thread in another forum because were totally going around and around on the experts forum.

No disrespect twords anyone on this thread..I just don't want to keep going in circles on Dr.Goulds forum. So why don't we start a thread in another forum?
Is that okay with everyone.

How about you start it goodhealth and let us know where it is..?
Avatar universal
Hi Amph

I personally feel a little affronted by your comments.
I didn't see any terms and conditions (other than a disclaimer) when I logged onto this forum.  Nobody said I couldn't participate in a conversation with another member here.  Especially as we were discussing issues affecting mental health.

Your comments remind me of an internet dbt class where the boundaries were very arbitrary.

I personally do not wish to pursue this conversation and I certainly have no intention of discussing issues raised on this forum in another.

I feel frustrated by the resultant conversation on medication, nutrition, hydration and exercise.
I concur that medication is best used discretely and in conjunction with therapy.  I also agree that nutrition and exercise are factors which affect our mental health.

604266 tn?1236362585
yep..."peace out" and good luck to ya:)
604266 tn?1236362585
Sorry, J...my intentions weren't to upset you..I just felt strange myself going back and forth with him on the forum...it had nothing to do with terms and conditions. It made me feel uncomfortable.
Bad mouthing doctors and saying they know nothing and neither do you or I and that to tell us anymore he'd have to charge...

Sorry, but I didn't like feeling uncomfortable. And the last time you and I went back and forth on the forum remember our thread was deleted.

I didn't mean to hurt anyones feelings or upset anyone. I just thought it would be easier for all..but that's why I asked and didn't demand or say that's what has to happen. I just expressed my feelings and then asked for your and his.

And now I've got them so..great. Problem solved.
Avatar universal
"They are intelligent people obviously, going through medical school and obtaining those respectable degrees by completing those rigorous programs"

"They do help people out though, and that is something you must respect."

You call that bad mouthing? Sure doesn't sound like it. I praised them for their lengthy schooling and helping people with their lives. You should be grateful of the complimentary advice I gave you. Maybe you should drink 50 ounces of water now to help with your frustration. Your mind seems to need it.  

>>>>>>Bad mouthing doctors<<<<<<<
Avatar universal
Alcohol suddenly seems very appealing but water is definitely the healthier option.

I too have done my fair share of devaluing doctors (and others).

I think goodhealth100 underestimates the general intellect of the general population.

I understand what you mean.  For me it felt frustrating.  Kind of like hitting your head against a brick wall and hoping the music will change sort of stuff.

I'm not going to not post out of fear that something may or may not happen.
I think our posts were deleted because of some of the safety stuff it mentioned.  I am not 100% sure though as no explanation was given.
How are we suppose to learn if no feedback is given?

Feeling powerless is a big issue for me.
I heard that I (we) either need to do this ... or do that ...  I didn't feel like I had options/ choices.  I don't like it when I don't feel I have room to negotiate.
Sorry!  It triggered off those old emotions from my experiences within the mhs.  Particularly those regarding therapy and therapists.  This is also part of that bigger issue I have with health professionals.
I hate it when people feel they're giving me options but I perceive they're giving me none.  Within our mhs I don't think it is just a perception though.
[Just as an aside.  I've been thinking about taking the lack of T to the district inspector or member of parliament but just now I think writing down my concerns and sending them to the mhs may also help (at least me on an emotional level).  My last T said they have to respond to written correspondence.  It probably wouldn't hurt to have it documented.]

There have been two things that have irked me on medhelp.com.  The first has been the incessant pushing of a drug that is not FDA approved.  The second ... water!!  (How we failed to discuss its significance at a cellular level I don't know).

Please don't anyone mention water to me for at least a day.

604266 tn?1236362585
I hear you on that...

That is so funny because that irks me more than you can imagine..I know what your talking about. Talking about the drug tht's not even out of research phase yet and will be a while before it's FDA approved. And it's pushed in every post! It irks me more than you know.
What's it going to do for anyone if it's not even available and won't be for some time...they can read about it and maybe ond day in the future get better...what good does it do to push a drug not even out of the research phase and certainly not FDA approved for use.
I've even heard someone tell someone they can get what they need at the pharmacy and just make sure they take it under a psychopharmacologists watchful eye. But that's not even close to a good idea.

Anyway..if your talking about the same thing I am it irks me just as much and I don't know why medhelp allows anyone to push drugs regardless but expecially ones that aren't FDA approved.
604266 tn?1236362585
J, did you say Dr. Gould is a psychoanalyst? I'm wondering how traditional he is..I have a question for him..you know that'll take a month to get on:)
I know some psychoanalysists are really old school traditional freudian...and mine is traditional and I think more fruedian than I had expected. But at least I'm not laying on the couch with my back twords him...though I'm sure that time will come down the road...and he'll get out the paper and pen again and have me draw. I can't say I didn't like the drawing bit and more because I'm facinated but how he interperates my drawings and what I say about them.
I'd like to know what's going on in my analysists head...how bad is that that I'm so analytical I sit there wondering how he's analyzing me. But it's great because he's a psychiatrist too so it's like a pne stop shop. And from what I've hears..the best in the area. Not that my ares big enough for a bunch of psychoanalysisits, we mostly have social workers of Dr.'s of psychology.
But just think of all teh school this ,an went through...I'm sure he has a doctorate in psychology, then went to med school and then did an extra decade for psycoanalysis(I think he said decade..may have just been overexagerating in passing)
Around 30 years in school...he can probably analtze my every move and word. If I compare my analytical abilities to his..it's like kintergarten vs grad school!

Anyway...I have a few questions for Dr. Gould if he is a psychoanalysis
604266 tn?1236362585
oh and I still want to get his book, but I don't know if my analyst would like that...he said out of session I have to try not tp talk about my issues and maybe reading that book would constitute as therapy out of therapy is book form.
I had no idea how hard it was not to talk about my issues..especially being a member here. It's like I have to wait till next week to talk about anything..so annoying.
When you were in psychoanalysis was your T like that?

But he is a very nice man and good. Doesn't pay as much attention to meds as he should by his own account which is bad because I'll  let my scripts run out before I remember I need them...but still I think worth the money..I think
Avatar universal
I think it sets a dangerous precedent.
A big part of me is not very receptive to the idea that this drug can cure mental illness.  And that is how it is being presented.

I think people have a right to write what they like.  That is after all why they have the disclaimer.

I thought so but when confronted I always start to have doubts.
This sounds strange, especially when you could just ask the questions, but you could always try doing a google search on him.  I don't know how he'd feel about that.  I would feel that that was a breach of my privacy (but then I don't have titles or publications).

I think its normal.  At least I sometimes wonder how people perceive me and what's going on. I doubt people interpret every nuance, etc that I do though.

Some I expect would go about it the other way.  Go to medical school first and then pursue the psychology side of things.  Longer than medicine or dentistry, etc??  Perhaps he meant ten years total for medicine plus the psychology??
It would be nice if every T had that degree of education/ experience before being let loose on the general public (let alone vulnerable people).

I doubt anyone would want to analyze our every move.

My T recommended this book you may like to look up.  It was called, Dibs: In search of self.  It is kind of like a transcript of a T with her client (who was very young).  T's just help us learn to experience things.  Just :)  Big understatement!

Did I tell you about my initial therapy sessions?  I was asked to not see my GP (who was providing weekly support).  This was so that I would take everything to therapy and not split it off.  (For example, discuss the negative with my GP and the less threatening stuff with my T).  It's to help us integrate stuff.

I think it would be OK to read it as long as you took your experience of it back to therapy with you.

I never thought of therapy as being in psychoanalysis.  My T was trained in other areas as well.  cbt, dbt, emdr, hypnosis, etc.

I'm isolated where I am and I don't tend to relate or socialize with others.  I've only tended to share my issues with my GP and a counselor I've spoken to from a service called lifelink youthline.  And when I haven't been contained, with people on the net.
For me it was OK because my number of sessions were increased to three.  I had therapy on Monday, Wednesday and Friday.  This was in large because it was such an effort to get from one day to the next let alone through an entire week.  This also meant that I was able to leave stuff with my T and not take it with me again.  This is how I began to learn to trust again.  And to feel safe and accepted.  And to feel contained.  To actually experience that.

Do you think you could take responsibility for your own medication?  Maybe even calculate the number before you run out and write that in a diary/ calender?

Also to goodhealth100.  It is OK to post about anything, you don't need anyone's permission to do that.

Take care both of you.

604266 tn?1236362585
I agree with the disclaimer but I also think although people have a right to say what they want, that nonetheless someone should consider the possible dangers of what they say and do such as pushing a drung not ot of research faze and far from FDA approvement. And I don't believe IMHO, that it's safe to push meds of any kind telling someone what med would be best for them unless it's the expert as you just don't know what someone is going to do with that info. I'm okay with people talking baout the meds that helped them and saying maybe someone can benefit fro such and such. But personally I cringe when people say someone shouldn't be on a med that they're doctor has given them. I think like you said that that's dangerous also. But as with opinions they're are many, many and most probably don't agree.

That's a good idea to google him..I'm sure he doesn't mind as he has been published and many have probably googled him either before or after buying his book. \
It looks like I'm going to have to set up some sort of schedual with my doctor where I keep track of my meds and when I'll run out so were not left in a situation where he doesn't have his pad and I have to come back and get it the next day because that's just annoying. Especially having to call him all the time because of it..I hate calling my T's outside of sessions.

I'm not sure either that psychoanalysis constitutes as therapy. I think it's a thechnique more based on getting to the root of the problem by analyzing a persons patterns through childhood until the present..and then I'm unsure of what happens next as in coping skills and what not.
I can always return to my ex T if I need to. And she does other things such as energy work(reiki) and whatnot.
I do understand why he doesn't want me to talk about my issues outside of sessions, but it's so hard not to. We already discussed that psychotherapy is not half way..like for instance I can't pick and choose what I'm going to tell him because one thing feels safer than the oother so I instad focus on his tie instead of my memories of abuse becaue his tir is a safe subject.
I get that..I've laready cried in my forst session which is so unlike me. But I guess it's what helps. If I wasn't crying I wouldn't be getting it out and wouldn't be making even a small step of progress. And I think that small step i made of progress last monday was good. I'm proud of myself for talking about some really hard things, letting it out..especially to a man professional when I prefer and am used to women. But he says once you reach adulthood the sex of teh therapist doesn't really matter and he's promised to try his best not to cause me any hurt when it comes to my abuse issues and having been molested in my teens and abused by my boyfriend.,
We'll see. I still like being analized nontheless. I don't knwo why but I won't look too deep into it. Surfacly I think I tend to analyze so much unconciously that it would be nice to finally be the one being analyzed.

Anyway..how are you doing this week?
Avatar universal
I don't like calling out of appointment times also.  And rarely do this.
I did phone the psychiatrist I was seeing at the time once.  I had safety issues and had set a date and as I didn't discuss this with him at my appointment several days earlier I told him I would like to be referred to the psychologist.  I never did receive the referral but I was fortunate my mood lifted a week before the date.  It could have been SAD.

I definitely feel psychoanalysis constitutes therapy.

Maybe you should be looking at why you need to focus on his tie and avoid what you really want/ need to be discussing.
Maybe creating a safe space is the better option?  Who knows?

If I didn't want to discuss something then we would look at why I didn't want too.

(I hope he wears a cool tie.  Whoops!  Don't know where that came from).

It sounds like you and this T may be a good fit.  That is one thing I did do with my last T and that was cry.  That was the first time ever in therapy.  Not that I like bawling my eyes out, but I think it's a good release.  Perhaps it means that we feel safe and we are better in tune with our emotions??
Actually I did cry when I saw a cmhn once.  I was feeling pretty desperate and overwhelmed and I was asking for help and he discharged me.  I was crying before I was discharged though.  He said it was the first time he'd ever seen me cry.

It's interesting about the T's gender.  My T said I shouldn't engage in therapy with a male.  Lots of object relations there I guess.

Better/ worse.
I think I'm trying to take some responsibility for making changes.  It can be hard when I'm so critical and extreme.
I've started running again which is good.
I'm trying to do stuff around the farm and the house.  I oiled our bricks (house) last week and my next mission is to sugar soap the roof and then paint that before winter.  Along with our titan board (cladding on the front of the house).  It's going to take ages.  Then there's firewood to get in, etc, etc.  I've got about six weeks.
My sister is flying home again in May and mum and dad want the house finished by then.  There's still electricity and plumbing to do.  Plus loads of other stuff.
It will be good having power (lights, power points, etc) and personal space.  I can't wait.
I saw the surgeon last week.  Well actually they fobbed me off with the registrar but I saw the consultant on the way out.  He asked how things were going.  I told him I didn't want radiation therapy.  Blah, blah, blah.  You really need this.  To his registrar, she really needs this.  I'm so confused.
I'm feeling really shattered (tired) at the moment.  I don't know if I can deal with that.  I expect it would be more like a five week vacation though.

I don't know what's causing this fatigue.  Lack of sleep, poor nutrition (lack of water :)), stress/ anxiety, the infection, heat (mum put our barometer outside last week and it was over 60 oC.  It must be much hotter on the roof).
There's some irony in the weather at the moment.  My brother's in Scotland (where it's cold) and my sister's in Australia (they've had bush fires and heat waves).
My other brother is home this weekend -it being a public holiday and all.  He's trying to erect a light box for my parents.  My other sister has invited mum and dad to a military tattoo near her place (along with baby sitting duties for valentine's day).

Not much happening here, pretty boring really.

How are you getting on?  The therapy sounds like it's going really well.  If I stopped to think about that too long i expect I would be extremely jealous.

Have a good week.  Take care.
604266 tn?1236362585
Oh I'm so annoyed...I just wrote out a reply and accidently hit the back button and lost it all!!! How frustrating that can be. I do it all teh time.
I'll have to write it out later...

I have psychoanalysis today....half excited. But that remind me I have to make a list for myself that I can bring to him about meds so we don't end up having to deal with things outsode of sessions. I hate that.

Okay..I guess I'll try again later when I'm not such a spazz. I was thinking of tapering off the knlonopin and have been only taking one a day all week and now I'm rethinking that. I'm a ball of anxiety...we'll see what he says. He is afterall the doc. I just really dislike benzos. But I dislike feeling like I'm going to crawl out of my skin more...touch call to make!

How are you...I want to reply to your above post but how are things going this week?
Avatar universal
Don't stress!

I couldn't imagine having a therapy session and basically a psych consult at the same time.
But then perhaps in some respects that is what I did with my last T.  She protected me from other mh personnel.  Other than the initial discussion with the doctor I never saw him.  Everything went through my T.  That is how she wanted it.

It is a difficult decision to make.

There have been a few times I've felt like that.  I use third form science to explain it.  It feels a bit like gas molecules bouncing off the walls of a container.  Maybe mine is more an irritability than an anxiety at those times.  Feels torturous anyway.

I had a very bad weekend.  My family put me down a lot so I then went to town and spent all my money on junk food (which I ate).  I have major concerns about my health and this makes everything infinitely worse.
There were comments about my lack of work.  I wish my family would understand.
I am happy to do a set number of hours a day but they need to be realistic.  At the moment I'm feeling extremely tired and can't cope with a huge number of hours.  I tried to do more yesterday but I think I pushed myself too hard and today I feel burnout.  I wish I didn't let them affect me this way.
Today I received a follow-up appointment to see the surgeon.  I am furious.  Personally I think it's bad management.  I have not had an opportunity to discuss complications following surgery or the infection.  When I saw the surgeon in hospital over Xmas he mentioned doing something about the resultant scar.  Last week the registrar said it would diminish over time (like his one he showed me).  He said they disappear with a healthy diet.  It was just a passing comment but ...
my reaction is screw radiation and the dumb doctor's appointment.
With radiation therapy my chances of having additional problems are said to decrease by 16%.  I'm not very good with this microscopic stuff and other than the fatigue (and emotional issues) I feel fine.
I feel tempted to cut off my nose to spite my face.
This has gone on for so long.  There's been testing and waiting.  More testing and more waiting. x x many.  Then surgery and more surgery.
Something's triggered me again.

Actually I send you a note.

I hope therapy goes well.  Looking forward to hearing how it went.

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