Aa
Getting off Paxil
My 89 year-old mother was prescribed 20mg Paxil by her new doctor when she moved into an assisted living home in November of 08. She has never been on Paxil before.
A previous doctor had prescribed Xanex for nights when she could not sleep, and for anxious moments that might arise. My mother meditates and can handle stress. Xanex has been working fine for her, for years. A 90-tablet bottle usually lasts her over a year.
Moving to an assisted-living home will naturally make one a little blue. My mama is not depressed -- never was, but her new doctor, seeing her for the first time, decided she was, and put her on Paxil at 20 mg. In my research, I've found that the elderly should take about half that, and if one has liver problems, one should not take Paxil at all.
My mother has a recurring liver cyst which comes and goes and sometimes gets really big. In my opinion she has no business being on Paxil. Furthermore, she's showing signs of various Paxil side-effects: becoming beligerent at times, occasionally argumentative (she's always been easy-going and very sweet) edgy, double-vision, memory loss, sometimes hallucinates... I could go on and on.
Now, I just now learned that her doctor had put her on Paxil way back in November. I am the family member who is supposed to be notified whenever any prescription changes happen. I was not notified. We're going to see a new doctor on Wednesday. Only the visit will tell us if this second new doctor is going to help us get my mother off Paxil.
I've been wondering what in the world is suddenly going on with Mama? Now I know what's going on with her, what I would like to know is this:
What are the possible Paxil-withdrawal symptoms for an 89 year old who's been on Paxil for about 6 months? What do you recommend we do? Is 6 months a long-enough time to have the horrendous withdrawal effects I've been reading about all over the internet? Do you have any other suggestions?
A previous doctor had prescribed Xanex for nights when she could not sleep, and for anxious moments that might arise. My mother meditates and can handle stress. Xanex has been working fine for her, for years. A 90-tablet bottle usually lasts her over a year.
Moving to an assisted-living home will naturally make one a little blue. My mama is not depressed -- never was, but her new doctor, seeing her for the first time, decided she was, and put her on Paxil at 20 mg. In my research, I've found that the elderly should take about half that, and if one has liver problems, one should not take Paxil at all.
My mother has a recurring liver cyst which comes and goes and sometimes gets really big. In my opinion she has no business being on Paxil. Furthermore, she's showing signs of various Paxil side-effects: becoming beligerent at times, occasionally argumentative (she's always been easy-going and very sweet) edgy, double-vision, memory loss, sometimes hallucinates... I could go on and on.
Now, I just now learned that her doctor had put her on Paxil way back in November. I am the family member who is supposed to be notified whenever any prescription changes happen. I was not notified. We're going to see a new doctor on Wednesday. Only the visit will tell us if this second new doctor is going to help us get my mother off Paxil.
I've been wondering what in the world is suddenly going on with Mama? Now I know what's going on with her, what I would like to know is this:
What are the possible Paxil-withdrawal symptoms for an 89 year old who's been on Paxil for about 6 months? What do you recommend we do? Is 6 months a long-enough time to have the horrendous withdrawal effects I've been reading about all over the internet? Do you have any other suggestions?
Sounds all rather exciting!! I'm glad you've had all these break throughs.
Based on what you wrote I thought the home and the attitude of its staff members was absolutely disgraceful. We wouldn't treat an animal that badly.
Procrastinating can increase our stress levels. I hope you were able to relax when there was nothing stressful for you to do.
When I feel relaxed I subconsciously seem to create more stress for myself.
I enjoy the lifestyle of the countryside too. We live on a hill and have panoramic views of mountains, lakes and the coast. I don't deal with people very well so the relative isolation suits me well. I can't tolerate large numbers of people (or a fast life). I could never live in Japan, etc -too claustrophobic (and busy).
My anxiety also precludes me from working in open-employment.
I find many of those situations triggering too.
I haven't heard of someone having PTSD attacks before. Could be flashbacks?? Maybe you are referring to the anxiety component??
I like low stimulus too. Too much can feel very overwhelming.
I have sometimes found trust to be an issue too. Sometimes because we have difficulties people have perceptions that cause them to doubt us and show a lack of confidence in us and our abilities.
Many people have ego's that trip them up -myself included.
Some people aren't ready to acknowledge or accept their own limitations. I was in denial for a long time before I could hear criticisms or comments from other people.
An old T sent me an e-mail a while back. She said my anxiety could make the doctor anxious as it would trigger insecurities in himself. I think I got that sort of right.
She also spoke about [him] being very narcissistic and highly defended.
You could almost substitute brother, etc for doctor.
[I'm not referring to Dr Gould or my current GP here.]
Your sister should never have been put in that position. I believe the home could/ should have taken some responsibility.
I get stressed going to my doctor too sometimes (and I've seen him weekly for six years -there have been breaks but just roughly speaking).
I was told the government make going on, and claiming, benefits hard so it becomes a deterrent for people.
I can understand your fear about food-stamps, etc. Several months ago while I was staying at a cancer lodge many of the residents (who were much older than myself) spoke of their experiences during the war. They would talk about food stamps, rations, blacking things out, etc, etc. Very interesting. Many of us from my generation take so many things for granted.
For what it's worth (and then both of us can sound crazy together), I don't like my parents sending animals to the works. To me it seems a bit like bundling Jews on trains and sending them to concentration camps. World history can be incredibly sensitive so I hope I haven't offended anyone.
I'm getting distracted. We have lightening and thunder storms here as well as a car rally going along our road. The fog has rolled in and I can barely see the cars now. I hope there are no accidents.
I need to go so the electrical surges don't affect our computer. Despite having surge protectors.
I'm rea
Whoops! Too slow. We just had a power outage. Thankfully the computer restores tabs.
I think what I was going to say was I'm really glad things are starting to work out well for you.
I know your concerns are with your mother but please don't overlook your own health issues -they need addressing too.
Take care
J
Based on what you wrote I thought the home and the attitude of its staff members was absolutely disgraceful. We wouldn't treat an animal that badly.
Procrastinating can increase our stress levels. I hope you were able to relax when there was nothing stressful for you to do.
When I feel relaxed I subconsciously seem to create more stress for myself.
I enjoy the lifestyle of the countryside too. We live on a hill and have panoramic views of mountains, lakes and the coast. I don't deal with people very well so the relative isolation suits me well. I can't tolerate large numbers of people (or a fast life). I could never live in Japan, etc -too claustrophobic (and busy).
My anxiety also precludes me from working in open-employment.
I find many of those situations triggering too.
I haven't heard of someone having PTSD attacks before. Could be flashbacks?? Maybe you are referring to the anxiety component??
I like low stimulus too. Too much can feel very overwhelming.
I have sometimes found trust to be an issue too. Sometimes because we have difficulties people have perceptions that cause them to doubt us and show a lack of confidence in us and our abilities.
Many people have ego's that trip them up -myself included.
Some people aren't ready to acknowledge or accept their own limitations. I was in denial for a long time before I could hear criticisms or comments from other people.
An old T sent me an e-mail a while back. She said my anxiety could make the doctor anxious as it would trigger insecurities in himself. I think I got that sort of right.
She also spoke about [him] being very narcissistic and highly defended.
You could almost substitute brother, etc for doctor.
[I'm not referring to Dr Gould or my current GP here.]
Your sister should never have been put in that position. I believe the home could/ should have taken some responsibility.
I get stressed going to my doctor too sometimes (and I've seen him weekly for six years -there have been breaks but just roughly speaking).
I was told the government make going on, and claiming, benefits hard so it becomes a deterrent for people.
I can understand your fear about food-stamps, etc. Several months ago while I was staying at a cancer lodge many of the residents (who were much older than myself) spoke of their experiences during the war. They would talk about food stamps, rations, blacking things out, etc, etc. Very interesting. Many of us from my generation take so many things for granted.
For what it's worth (and then both of us can sound crazy together), I don't like my parents sending animals to the works. To me it seems a bit like bundling Jews on trains and sending them to concentration camps. World history can be incredibly sensitive so I hope I haven't offended anyone.
I'm getting distracted. We have lightening and thunder storms here as well as a car rally going along our road. The fog has rolled in and I can barely see the cars now. I hope there are no accidents.
I need to go so the electrical surges don't affect our computer. Despite having surge protectors.
I'm rea
Whoops! Too slow. We just had a power outage. Thankfully the computer restores tabs.
I think what I was going to say was I'm really glad things are starting to work out well for you.
I know your concerns are with your mother but please don't overlook your own health issues -they need addressing too.
Take care
J
Just want to add that nobody's ever found a chemical imbalance in anyone. It's a hypothesis, still unproven. It's also a way to sell pharmaceutical products. While these products do help sometimes, nobody's really sure yet exactly why, since the brain is still beyond our understanding. The important thing isn't that your mother's chemistry is this or that, the important thing is that she isn't depressed and didn't need the Paxil in the first place. If you go on antidepressant websites, you'll see people given antidepressants for all kinds of things that don't require strong drugs to treat; it just cheaper and easier than spending the required time with a patient to learn what's really up. Good luck.
Good luck and best wishes for resolving these issues with your brother. It almost sounds as though your brother is burdened by the responsibility. An out of sight out of mind philosophy works for many people.
It reminded me of how my aunt and uncle didn't want my grandmother returning to her house after a fall because they had gone through all her belongings. She died in hospital so I'm glad she was spared that trauma.
Would your mother consider, or be in a position too, change her PoA?
I'm glad you're working together with the new doctor to help your mother with what she wants (or in a way she wants).
Best wishes
J
It reminded me of how my aunt and uncle didn't want my grandmother returning to her house after a fall because they had gone through all her belongings. She died in hospital so I'm glad she was spared that trauma.
Would your mother consider, or be in a position too, change her PoA?
I'm glad you're working together with the new doctor to help your mother with what she wants (or in a way she wants).
Best wishes
J
You'll probably have to post another question to get the doctor to respond -- he doesn't usually enter the discussion more than once. I also don't think there's a definitive answer -- what does dangerous mean? Another month on the drug won't alter the withdrawal problem, probably, and there's no guarantee she'll even have one, but she might, so caution is necessary. But one thing, she needs a different doctor than the one at the home. Sound like they're trying to either kill her, or sedate her to where they don't have to care for her. Just kidding, but it does sound like a not very good place. Sad medical system, ours. Can you get a real psychiatrist you know to go see her? It might be expensive, but necessary.
Three weeks weaning could be way too short. Everyone is different, so the situation has to be monitored closely by someone who knows and cares.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
I certain sympathize with your position and think you should push hard to get your mother off this medication...to avoid serious withdrawals, she should be weaned over a three week period, the last week using the smallest possible dose every third day before she stops, and liberal use of xanax the last weeks to cover her from any remaining withdrawal effects.
Dear Ananda
I was referring to pelvic floor exercises and others. There are specific exercises physios give patients to help with incontinence.
J
I was referring to pelvic floor exercises and others. There are specific exercises physios give patients to help with incontinence.
J
Never heard of it, but all probiotics should be refrigerated; the organisms need to hibernate or they die. The best probiotic is very very expensive, Healthy Trinity by Natren. Whatever you buy, make sure it has bifidus in it, that's the organism most identified with digestion.
It just dawned on me that one of you mentioned probiotics (at least I think it was here) -- but looking back through here, I can't find it.
FYI: she is taking Pearl Acidophilus (which is supposed to be tested as very available to the system) twice daily (that's when they give out the meds) and while I was there, I gave her keifer as well. Whoever mentioned this said something about the "newfangled" probiotic I've heard of these days in a product called "Align." but said it should be refrigerated. (Was that in this forum?) Can you tell me more about this probiotic? I'd never heard of it before and I've been into natural foods for over 2 decades.
Thanks!
Ananda
FYI: she is taking Pearl Acidophilus (which is supposed to be tested as very available to the system) twice daily (that's when they give out the meds) and while I was there, I gave her keifer as well. Whoever mentioned this said something about the "newfangled" probiotic I've heard of these days in a product called "Align." but said it should be refrigerated. (Was that in this forum?) Can you tell me more about this probiotic? I'd never heard of it before and I've been into natural foods for over 2 decades.
Thanks!
Ananda
getting exercise... what exercises do you mean? She walks a good bit for an 89 year old. She does therapeutic exercises to strengthen her muscles -- given to her by physical therapists recently. She does kegels. Is there anything else I don't know of?
Hey Ananda
I hope you enjoy the solitude for a bit.
I'm not sure about the med.
Is 89 too old to be getting exercises to help with incontinence? I was just wondering if that would help make a difference.
J
I hope you enjoy the solitude for a bit.
I'm not sure about the med.
Is 89 too old to be getting exercises to help with incontinence? I was just wondering if that would help make a difference.
J
Found out on Sunday that the assisted-living place's pharmacy was still putting Amitiza (the laxative the old doc prescribed) in her pill packet, even though the new doc had put in a "Discontinue" order on it.
!?!
I had put her on chinese medicines for both the incontinance and a mild laxative which tones the abdominal muscles that were spasming all day long but not working at all when it was time for a bowel movement. The good action finally began again, but there was still diarrhea, so I reported that to the new doc, who understood that chinese meds work differently, but since western meds that help incontinance also cause diarrhea, she asked me to stop giving her the chinese meds for awhile and see. So I did. I put her back on them when we found out about the Amitiza. Her bowels are iffy now, but I had to leave, so the hired caregiver is seeing that she takes her chinese meds. Cross your fingers and pray. She has a doc appt on Friday. We'll see!
As for water, she drinks 6-8 glasses per day which includes 2 capfuls of a special glacial water which is supposed to do wonders in terms of absorption. She drinks this up until about 6-7 in the evening. While on the chinese meds, she was urinating more frequently in the daytime and less at night, not wetting her bed. But off the chinese meds she was flooding her Attends and her bed. Thing is the chinese meds for incontinence take awhile to act... so she was getting a good start, but then when she quit taking them she started flooding her bed again.
sheeze.
I am curious about Amitiza -- how strong it is, side effects, etc. I did a little research but didn't find much, and was too busy to keep at it, since I raised a fuss as soon as I discovered it, and it was time to get ready to leave. Anyone her know anything about Amitiza?
Thank you all!
namaste,
ananda
!?!
I had put her on chinese medicines for both the incontinance and a mild laxative which tones the abdominal muscles that were spasming all day long but not working at all when it was time for a bowel movement. The good action finally began again, but there was still diarrhea, so I reported that to the new doc, who understood that chinese meds work differently, but since western meds that help incontinance also cause diarrhea, she asked me to stop giving her the chinese meds for awhile and see. So I did. I put her back on them when we found out about the Amitiza. Her bowels are iffy now, but I had to leave, so the hired caregiver is seeing that she takes her chinese meds. Cross your fingers and pray. She has a doc appt on Friday. We'll see!
As for water, she drinks 6-8 glasses per day which includes 2 capfuls of a special glacial water which is supposed to do wonders in terms of absorption. She drinks this up until about 6-7 in the evening. While on the chinese meds, she was urinating more frequently in the daytime and less at night, not wetting her bed. But off the chinese meds she was flooding her Attends and her bed. Thing is the chinese meds for incontinence take awhile to act... so she was getting a good start, but then when she quit taking them she started flooding her bed again.
sheeze.
I am curious about Amitiza -- how strong it is, side effects, etc. I did a little research but didn't find much, and was too busy to keep at it, since I raised a fuss as soon as I discovered it, and it was time to get ready to leave. Anyone her know anything about Amitiza?
Thank you all!
namaste,
ananda
Hi Ananda
Just wondering if the nighttime urinary frequency is caused by how much or when she is drinking?
J
Just wondering if the nighttime urinary frequency is caused by how much or when she is drinking?
J
The food in those places can be pretty awful -- might it be something she's eating? Can they try taking her off wheat and dairy in a place like that? And have you tried giving her a probiotic featuring bifidus -- make sure it's in the refrigerated section of the health food store, not on the shelf. You might also try some aloe juice or DGL with her to see if it helps, or, even better, start with a homeopathic remedy. Glad she's doing better -- Paxil can be a very nasty drug when you need it, it's especially nasty when you don't!
It's been a crazy off-and-on time. As a Vietnamese family friend who had just entered the country USA) and was trying to find us, said over the phone (when we were trying to ascertain his exact where-a-bouts):
"Well, I'm standing on the corner of "Walk" and "Don't Walk," and it keeps changing all the time."
Mama's been withdrawing from Paxil 10 days each at half doses and it's been crazily insane with her cognitive awareness better, a gleam in the eye I haven't seen since February (here and there) and then back down to the bottom again with tears and all kinds of crazy aches and pains and off-the-wall symptoms.
That's the bad news. It has "wore me slap out" as we say here in the "Sunny South."
The good news:
Mama's been totally off the Paxil for 2 days now, and is "coming back to herself" more and more. There are moments that she's "off" and moments that she is so alert and so aware, it's astounding. Her bowel fluctuations and nightime urinary frequency has still been a problem, and she exhibited cognitive difficulty putting on her Attends (like Depends) today, but not yesterday! so it's still a "pay attention every second of the day and night" kind of thing.
A friend who is also a professional caregiver is coming in tonight to discuss how she can help. YAY! Her schedule suddenly opened up, and then suddenly changed again so we'll see tonight what she can do. I've been here for 2 months, and I'm exhausted and the owner of this assisted living place is ready for me to leave. Frankly, so am I! whew!
Thank you all for your support, your answers and your questions. They have helped a lot!
Oh, and if you have any clue about the crazy bowels and nighttime pees, please let me know...
namaste,
ananda
"Well, I'm standing on the corner of "Walk" and "Don't Walk," and it keeps changing all the time."
Mama's been withdrawing from Paxil 10 days each at half doses and it's been crazily insane with her cognitive awareness better, a gleam in the eye I haven't seen since February (here and there) and then back down to the bottom again with tears and all kinds of crazy aches and pains and off-the-wall symptoms.
That's the bad news. It has "wore me slap out" as we say here in the "Sunny South."
The good news:
Mama's been totally off the Paxil for 2 days now, and is "coming back to herself" more and more. There are moments that she's "off" and moments that she is so alert and so aware, it's astounding. Her bowel fluctuations and nightime urinary frequency has still been a problem, and she exhibited cognitive difficulty putting on her Attends (like Depends) today, but not yesterday! so it's still a "pay attention every second of the day and night" kind of thing.
A friend who is also a professional caregiver is coming in tonight to discuss how she can help. YAY! Her schedule suddenly opened up, and then suddenly changed again so we'll see tonight what she can do. I've been here for 2 months, and I'm exhausted and the owner of this assisted living place is ready for me to leave. Frankly, so am I! whew!
Thank you all for your support, your answers and your questions. They have helped a lot!
Oh, and if you have any clue about the crazy bowels and nighttime pees, please let me know...
namaste,
ananda
I'll send you a message.
Being on a hill and having a view also has its disadvantages. Most people in my country live relatively close to the coast. For us, that puts us in a high wind zone (although it is not always windy).
While the view is beautiful it can remind me of how trapped I am emotionally. (And it would be nice if the roof didn't leak). It is winter here.
J
Being on a hill and having a view also has its disadvantages. Most people in my country live relatively close to the coast. For us, that puts us in a high wind zone (although it is not always windy).
While the view is beautiful it can remind me of how trapped I am emotionally. (And it would be nice if the roof didn't leak). It is winter here.
J
We seem to have a lot in common! I'd love to be able to correspond with you email... would you like that? How do you propose we go about that?
The home where Mama is -- well, there are some things that just frankly turn out as disgraceful, whenever there is policy that superceeds (oh darn how do you spell that?) compassion, and unfortunately that happens everywhere. Even in a home such as this one, where the administrator is also the owner (as opposed to some corporate headquarters in some other state).
The attendant came in to check on Mama in the morning that day she was admitted and found her in a mess. She cleaned mama up, but she couldn't be here round-the-clock. She has about 10 people to get dressed for breakfast and all that jazz. Mama's not scheduled for round-the-clock care. That's Alzheimers Unit or Nursing-Home care, and mama is for the most part, very independent.
So they did what they do -- call the nearest family member. Now, as it happens, the most responsive family member (me) lives 2 hours away and has to give herself 2 hours to prepare for the journey, since I live in a rain-forest, and --in this case-- I wouldn't know how long I'd be gone. I had to totally "shut down" my camper (my abode( set out damp-rids, clean out the frig, etc).
With effusive diarrhea happening nonstop, Mama needed someone constant to help and to at least assess the situation -- my brother was out of town and his children were both at work, and my daughter had her cell phone turned off. So my sister was it.
My brother could have told me, "Get down here right away" and I could have been there in 4 hours from the 1st call. But he told me, "We've got it under control." Which they clearly did not.
The really bad policy around here is to insist that the residents come down to dinner regardless of how they feel unless the "right person" deems them "sick." That means: Diarrhea? Administer Immodium AD, put them in a wheelchair and wheel them down to the dining room.
I think mama's story is going to change that policy. But up til now, I haven't really had the time to attack that policy. I'm too busy trying to make things happen in some sort of orderly way and now I'm assisting mama with the Paxil withdrawals. I'm madder at her old doctor than I am the home, quite frankly. 20mg to an elderly non-depressed lady who weighs 100 lbs?!?! When 5mg is what's recommended?!?!?)
There is also the whole "right laxative" debate around here, where the pharmacist doesn't want to be held responsible for giving one of the residents something that's not AMA/FDA approved (even tho the chinese medicine is working like a charm and the new doctor has prescribed it). So I'm having to "choose my battles" at the moment, so to speak.
Like: let's make it so I can stay til she's off the paxil. Ok. That done, Let's get mama normalized, now that I'm allowed to stay with her. Once she's normalized, I'll give them the documentation I've been putting together regarding the incidents, the care, the policies and what herbs are working, how, and how I know all this. Along with her new doctor's approval, recommendation, and if necessary, a piece of paper from an attorney saying that the home and it's people are not responsible if anything goes happens with this 2,000 year old consistently-good Chinese formula that's never happened before.
duh. Uh... what of Paxil? Just because it's "approved" by the AMA/FDA, that makes it safe?
give me a break.
And then there is, of course:
After we get all that in line then I'm going to give the complete documentation to the administrator/owner and have a sit-down with her about this ridiculous dinner policy.
sigh!
(Take a deep breath! Another one! This is very much left-brain work! It involves doctors and lawyers! Yikes yikes! Deep breath! [where's the Xanax?] Like that.)
So, it's not all over by any means, but at least it's down to a dull roar that now sounds like nothing at all (in comparison).
Hey, J -- the view out your window sounds just like where I would give my eye-teeth to to live. Wow. You in the U.S.? Which part of the country? You are most blessed in that respect!
Namaste,
Ananda
The home where Mama is -- well, there are some things that just frankly turn out as disgraceful, whenever there is policy that superceeds (oh darn how do you spell that?) compassion, and unfortunately that happens everywhere. Even in a home such as this one, where the administrator is also the owner (as opposed to some corporate headquarters in some other state).
The attendant came in to check on Mama in the morning that day she was admitted and found her in a mess. She cleaned mama up, but she couldn't be here round-the-clock. She has about 10 people to get dressed for breakfast and all that jazz. Mama's not scheduled for round-the-clock care. That's Alzheimers Unit or Nursing-Home care, and mama is for the most part, very independent.
So they did what they do -- call the nearest family member. Now, as it happens, the most responsive family member (me) lives 2 hours away and has to give herself 2 hours to prepare for the journey, since I live in a rain-forest, and --in this case-- I wouldn't know how long I'd be gone. I had to totally "shut down" my camper (my abode( set out damp-rids, clean out the frig, etc).
With effusive diarrhea happening nonstop, Mama needed someone constant to help and to at least assess the situation -- my brother was out of town and his children were both at work, and my daughter had her cell phone turned off. So my sister was it.
My brother could have told me, "Get down here right away" and I could have been there in 4 hours from the 1st call. But he told me, "We've got it under control." Which they clearly did not.
The really bad policy around here is to insist that the residents come down to dinner regardless of how they feel unless the "right person" deems them "sick." That means: Diarrhea? Administer Immodium AD, put them in a wheelchair and wheel them down to the dining room.
I think mama's story is going to change that policy. But up til now, I haven't really had the time to attack that policy. I'm too busy trying to make things happen in some sort of orderly way and now I'm assisting mama with the Paxil withdrawals. I'm madder at her old doctor than I am the home, quite frankly. 20mg to an elderly non-depressed lady who weighs 100 lbs?!?! When 5mg is what's recommended?!?!?)
There is also the whole "right laxative" debate around here, where the pharmacist doesn't want to be held responsible for giving one of the residents something that's not AMA/FDA approved (even tho the chinese medicine is working like a charm and the new doctor has prescribed it). So I'm having to "choose my battles" at the moment, so to speak.
Like: let's make it so I can stay til she's off the paxil. Ok. That done, Let's get mama normalized, now that I'm allowed to stay with her. Once she's normalized, I'll give them the documentation I've been putting together regarding the incidents, the care, the policies and what herbs are working, how, and how I know all this. Along with her new doctor's approval, recommendation, and if necessary, a piece of paper from an attorney saying that the home and it's people are not responsible if anything goes happens with this 2,000 year old consistently-good Chinese formula that's never happened before.
duh. Uh... what of Paxil? Just because it's "approved" by the AMA/FDA, that makes it safe?
give me a break.
And then there is, of course:
After we get all that in line then I'm going to give the complete documentation to the administrator/owner and have a sit-down with her about this ridiculous dinner policy.
sigh!
(Take a deep breath! Another one! This is very much left-brain work! It involves doctors and lawyers! Yikes yikes! Deep breath! [where's the Xanax?] Like that.)
So, it's not all over by any means, but at least it's down to a dull roar that now sounds like nothing at all (in comparison).
Hey, J -- the view out your window sounds just like where I would give my eye-teeth to to live. Wow. You in the U.S.? Which part of the country? You are most blessed in that respect!
Namaste,
Ananda
Good News!
The administrator/owner of this place just read the 4-page report I gave her yesterday, re: mama's condition, her progress, the Paxil, etc. etc., and she came to me and said, "Why don't you stay until she's finished withdrawing from the paxil? Let's look at a calendar. Will the 7th of July be good?"
YAY!
Thank you everyone for your support and encouragement.
I have one more interesting thing to share with you:
Nice quiet time with mama napping, between tasks, I was playing a game of solitaire (Left-brain therapy), and I just noticed something...
something very strange.
there was this "need" to make myself do something I've been putting off -- "time to do the dreaded thing..." came bubbling up...
...when there are no more dreaded things.
My peptides had gotten so accustomed to jumping into gear as soon as I felt relaxed enough to tackle the next panic-inducing task, I felt this need to make myself prepare for and do the next dreaded thing... (I've been allocating those tasks for certain intervals during the day so that there was time to recuperate between them...)
...but there was no dreaded thing. Not one.
First time in... when?!?
This realization was followed by this sorta laughable sense of OMG! while at the same time, followed by a great sense of relief...
The Peptide Dance (See "What the Bleep Do We Know?" if you're not familiar with The Peptide Dance)
Gratitude! Gratitude!
I am so grateful that it's all worked out now, and I can simply rest with the tasks that must be done on a daily basis. Period.
YAY!!!
A few moments ago, Mama picked up the stapled pack of papers that I had written up to document what's been going on with her-- it's what I put together for the Magnificent new doctor -- and Mama read the whole thing. I kept trying to distract her from it, cuz I didn't want to depress her any more than she was already depressed.
She kept reading. When she was done, she looked up at me and said (quite articulately, I might add!), "I'm glad I read it. This tells me why I've been feeling what I've been feeling and it tells me what you've been doing to help me. I thought I appreciated you before... but now I appreciate you even more. I'm going to start cooperating with you more. You don't need me fighting you. You need me helping you."
That's my old mama. She's coming back!
YAY!
Gratitude! Gratitude!
namaste,
ananda
The administrator/owner of this place just read the 4-page report I gave her yesterday, re: mama's condition, her progress, the Paxil, etc. etc., and she came to me and said, "Why don't you stay until she's finished withdrawing from the paxil? Let's look at a calendar. Will the 7th of July be good?"
YAY!
Thank you everyone for your support and encouragement.
I have one more interesting thing to share with you:
Nice quiet time with mama napping, between tasks, I was playing a game of solitaire (Left-brain therapy), and I just noticed something...
something very strange.
there was this "need" to make myself do something I've been putting off -- "time to do the dreaded thing..." came bubbling up...
...when there are no more dreaded things.
My peptides had gotten so accustomed to jumping into gear as soon as I felt relaxed enough to tackle the next panic-inducing task, I felt this need to make myself prepare for and do the next dreaded thing... (I've been allocating those tasks for certain intervals during the day so that there was time to recuperate between them...)
...but there was no dreaded thing. Not one.
First time in... when?!?
This realization was followed by this sorta laughable sense of OMG! while at the same time, followed by a great sense of relief...
The Peptide Dance (See "What the Bleep Do We Know?" if you're not familiar with The Peptide Dance)
Gratitude! Gratitude!
I am so grateful that it's all worked out now, and I can simply rest with the tasks that must be done on a daily basis. Period.
YAY!!!
A few moments ago, Mama picked up the stapled pack of papers that I had written up to document what's been going on with her-- it's what I put together for the Magnificent new doctor -- and Mama read the whole thing. I kept trying to distract her from it, cuz I didn't want to depress her any more than she was already depressed.
She kept reading. When she was done, she looked up at me and said (quite articulately, I might add!), "I'm glad I read it. This tells me why I've been feeling what I've been feeling and it tells me what you've been doing to help me. I thought I appreciated you before... but now I appreciate you even more. I'm going to start cooperating with you more. You don't need me fighting you. You need me helping you."
That's my old mama. She's coming back!
YAY!
Gratitude! Gratitude!
namaste,
ananda
Typo above: PSD should read PTSD (not diagnosed).
BTW: The only thing I have been diagnosed with is Psycho-Motor Retardation (PMR) without depression or any of that jazz. The shrink I managed to go to once (after all those tests) said, "Don't worry, you have plenty of compensators." I think the PMR is caused by the l-hemisphere damage I received during that fall at 6 years old. When I'm under stress, I drop things -- glasses break in the sink while washing dishes, ankles don't straighten out when I hop off the wall and I break both feet... etc. PMR kicks in under stress. Otherwise the compensators are working pretty well.
I think that the R-brain is working overtime, and when I'm under stress, some of the brain activity "falls off the back of the truck" and I drop things, normal motor function doesn't work, etc.
Never could catch a frisbee though!
Ok. Enough about me. This is about my mama.
Namaste,
Ananda
BTW: The only thing I have been diagnosed with is Psycho-Motor Retardation (PMR) without depression or any of that jazz. The shrink I managed to go to once (after all those tests) said, "Don't worry, you have plenty of compensators." I think the PMR is caused by the l-hemisphere damage I received during that fall at 6 years old. When I'm under stress, I drop things -- glasses break in the sink while washing dishes, ankles don't straighten out when I hop off the wall and I break both feet... etc. PMR kicks in under stress. Otherwise the compensators are working pretty well.
I think that the R-brain is working overtime, and when I'm under stress, some of the brain activity "falls off the back of the truck" and I drop things, normal motor function doesn't work, etc.
Never could catch a frisbee though!
Ok. Enough about me. This is about my mama.
Namaste,
Ananda
Thank you for your suggestions. Being in the midst of it all, one does not always think of everything and a fresh view often reveals alternatives one has not yet thought of.
I live in the mountains in a camper in the woods on a friend-of-a-friend's property. I do energy-work (which I'm good at) for my rent, since I am unable to hold a job. I'm not "reliable" enough to go to work every day, because of the panic disorder which kicks in with too much left-brain activity (number phobia, et.al.,) as well as what appears to be PSD attacks when I have to enter business offices, hospital, doctor's offices, deal with legal work, thick black letters on white paper, certain web pages (haven't figured that on e out) see men in uniform.... the list goes on and on. I don't have seizures, thank god.
The Left-brain panic is I believe is due to damage to the left hemisphere when I fell from an upstairs porch at 6 years old. The right brain compensates enough that I appear normal, most the time, but when there's too much logical-sequential thinking required, it's TMI, if you know what I mean, and the brain gets overloaded really fast. I simply go blank and shaking. It takes time, calmness, no triggers, etc.. to recover.
If my brother would simply trust my judgment regarding my mother (right brain creative solutions abound!).... With support I would create all kinds of solutions for all kinds of problems -- and when I'm helping a friend or my mom, the solution flashes before me sometimes as a simple ah-hah! whereas it takes others considerable time just to understand it. When a friend needs a solution, I'm the one to call . If my brother would just trust me and do the left-brain work required without hassling me, we could make a good team. But he's very left-brain and often misconstrues what I'm trying to say. I've been working very hard at this communication. He does a lot of projecting his own hostility onto mama and assigns her motives that are his, not hers. This is very frustrating. His ego gets in the way, if you try to point out what he is so clearly doing.
The rest of the family is too busy or too sick to do anything, although they are close by. We (I should say "I" since nobody else did very much) moved her here (3rd move in 5 years (I did them all) -- 2nd move in one year -- because this was the best place around. Last place was criminally negligent. (I've done the homework -- this place is it.) This place is close to the other family members who said they couldn't help (before) because of the distance. Well... they're still not here to help very much, but in an emergency sometimes they try... like my sister with immune dysfunction, who made herself sick helping mama while they were waiting for me to arrive and be with her at the hospital.
!
There are no assisted-living places near me, and the rest of the family would balk at the distance and not do a thing to help her move. I can't afford to move down here -- being in the city, itself, is a panic- inducer for me. Being in the woods is my therapy. I only need Xanex when I'm in the city, dealing with this kind of thing.
Getting my own doctor(s) etc: Going to dr's offices induce panic and I can't get my thoughts straight to articulate what's going on with me. I also have no insurance and can't afford payment. Dealing with the government on anything (getting on Social Security, getting on food stamps, etc) is panic-inducing -- I swear it's a past-life thing with Nazis. (now you're really going to think I'm crazy). I need someone to hold my hand throughout any process like that, and there is no one available to help me with that right now. If I started working on that process it would take all my energy and I would not be available for my mother. And then I would have to recover, afterwards, and I'd have to keep dealing with panic-inducing situations -- cuz you have to keep up the paperwork and keep going in those offices.
I'd rather live my life drug free and in the woods.
I think I answered all your questions, Jaquta -- Again, I'm sorry I've gone on so long, here. The trouble of the blessings of this active right-brain is the convoluted answer.
Namaste,
Ananda
I live in the mountains in a camper in the woods on a friend-of-a-friend's property. I do energy-work (which I'm good at) for my rent, since I am unable to hold a job. I'm not "reliable" enough to go to work every day, because of the panic disorder which kicks in with too much left-brain activity (number phobia, et.al.,) as well as what appears to be PSD attacks when I have to enter business offices, hospital, doctor's offices, deal with legal work, thick black letters on white paper, certain web pages (haven't figured that on e out) see men in uniform.... the list goes on and on. I don't have seizures, thank god.
The Left-brain panic is I believe is due to damage to the left hemisphere when I fell from an upstairs porch at 6 years old. The right brain compensates enough that I appear normal, most the time, but when there's too much logical-sequential thinking required, it's TMI, if you know what I mean, and the brain gets overloaded really fast. I simply go blank and shaking. It takes time, calmness, no triggers, etc.. to recover.
If my brother would simply trust my judgment regarding my mother (right brain creative solutions abound!).... With support I would create all kinds of solutions for all kinds of problems -- and when I'm helping a friend or my mom, the solution flashes before me sometimes as a simple ah-hah! whereas it takes others considerable time just to understand it. When a friend needs a solution, I'm the one to call . If my brother would just trust me and do the left-brain work required without hassling me, we could make a good team. But he's very left-brain and often misconstrues what I'm trying to say. I've been working very hard at this communication. He does a lot of projecting his own hostility onto mama and assigns her motives that are his, not hers. This is very frustrating. His ego gets in the way, if you try to point out what he is so clearly doing.
The rest of the family is too busy or too sick to do anything, although they are close by. We (I should say "I" since nobody else did very much) moved her here (3rd move in 5 years (I did them all) -- 2nd move in one year -- because this was the best place around. Last place was criminally negligent. (I've done the homework -- this place is it.) This place is close to the other family members who said they couldn't help (before) because of the distance. Well... they're still not here to help very much, but in an emergency sometimes they try... like my sister with immune dysfunction, who made herself sick helping mama while they were waiting for me to arrive and be with her at the hospital.
!
There are no assisted-living places near me, and the rest of the family would balk at the distance and not do a thing to help her move. I can't afford to move down here -- being in the city, itself, is a panic- inducer for me. Being in the woods is my therapy. I only need Xanex when I'm in the city, dealing with this kind of thing.
Getting my own doctor(s) etc: Going to dr's offices induce panic and I can't get my thoughts straight to articulate what's going on with me. I also have no insurance and can't afford payment. Dealing with the government on anything (getting on Social Security, getting on food stamps, etc) is panic-inducing -- I swear it's a past-life thing with Nazis. (now you're really going to think I'm crazy). I need someone to hold my hand throughout any process like that, and there is no one available to help me with that right now. If I started working on that process it would take all my energy and I would not be available for my mother. And then I would have to recover, afterwards, and I'd have to keep dealing with panic-inducing situations -- cuz you have to keep up the paperwork and keep going in those offices.
I'd rather live my life drug free and in the woods.
I think I answered all your questions, Jaquta -- Again, I'm sorry I've gone on so long, here. The trouble of the blessings of this active right-brain is the convoluted answer.
Namaste,
Ananda
Yesterday was Mama's first tapered day off paxil -- the new doctor has prescribed half-dosages (that means 10 mg) per day for 10 days, then 5mg for 10 days and then none.
Yesterday at 6pm when she returned from the dining hall, she went to her bedroom and started to cry. I went in there to see what was up. She said that she felt that there was no place for her anywhere on this earth and that for the first time in her life she understood why people commit suicide. "If I could think clearly enough to finish the things I have promised people I would do, I would do it all right now and then end it all."
Suicidal thoughts are already here, Day 1.
Meanwhile, the owner of this place told me that it's time for me to leave -- I've "been here long enough" (3 weeks to get mama's bowel movements normal -- the solution found in a chinese medicine formula last week, which the policy here will not allow the attendants to give her.
So -- I must leave. She has to remember (which she's unable to do) to take her chinese medicine to keep regular. Otherwise she ends up back in the hospital, and we start all over again -- this time in the midst of Paxil withdrawal.
I'm at my wits end.
My brother doesn't believe in alternative therapies and thinks mama should be back on paxil and using whatever the staff wants to give her for her bowels -- in other words:
Harsh Laxative leading to effusive diarrhea
Immodium AD to stop the diarrhea
Harsh Laxative to start her going again
Immodium AD to stop the diarrhea...
They refuse to bring meals to residents' rooms in cases of diarrhea,because they want the residents to socialize. The answer? Immodium AD.
The merry-go-round seesaw being what got her in the hospital in the first place with effusive diarrhea that wouldn't stop and constant spastic colon. We're talking a an 89-yr old woman. Abdominal spasms, liquid feces with no constructive muscle action, just spasms. Sitting on the toilet not being able to push out the liquid trying to pour out of her body. My sister (who has immune dysfunction) lives nearby and came to the rescue, changing diapers, bathing her, etc., etc., back in the bed, start all over again. This went on for about 10 hours, as it started in the middle of the night The staff found her in bed in a pool of liquid feces that morning and called my brother who called my sister.
I came down here as soon as I could get here (it takes me about 4 hours). The hospital got her "stable" and sent her home in one week. She still had no bowel control, but she wasn't pouring anymore. When I discovered the chinese formula and started administering it to her, her bowel movements became normal with normal muscle action within 2 days.
But the staff here won't give it to her. It's not approved by AMA or FDA.
And I am being forced to leave.
And Mama is talking suicide.
She's prescribed Xanex PRN during all this, but at 6 pm, everyone was in the dining hall getting things cleaned up after dinner, and no one answered the call. I gave her some Xanex I had on hand. She was better, watched some TV with me, and went to bed peacefully.
I'm up early this morning and am going to call her new doctor to see if she will insist that the home allow me to stay long enough to get Mama off Paxil. By then, perhaps her mind will be "back to normal" enough that she will remember to take the chinese medicine to keep her movements regular and healthy. Cross fingers.
I'm sorry this is so long, Dr. Gould, everybody... I didn't mean to say so much -- but it all seems necessary.
Namaste,
Ananda
Yesterday at 6pm when she returned from the dining hall, she went to her bedroom and started to cry. I went in there to see what was up. She said that she felt that there was no place for her anywhere on this earth and that for the first time in her life she understood why people commit suicide. "If I could think clearly enough to finish the things I have promised people I would do, I would do it all right now and then end it all."
Suicidal thoughts are already here, Day 1.
Meanwhile, the owner of this place told me that it's time for me to leave -- I've "been here long enough" (3 weeks to get mama's bowel movements normal -- the solution found in a chinese medicine formula last week, which the policy here will not allow the attendants to give her.
So -- I must leave. She has to remember (which she's unable to do) to take her chinese medicine to keep regular. Otherwise she ends up back in the hospital, and we start all over again -- this time in the midst of Paxil withdrawal.
I'm at my wits end.
My brother doesn't believe in alternative therapies and thinks mama should be back on paxil and using whatever the staff wants to give her for her bowels -- in other words:
Harsh Laxative leading to effusive diarrhea
Immodium AD to stop the diarrhea
Harsh Laxative to start her going again
Immodium AD to stop the diarrhea...
They refuse to bring meals to residents' rooms in cases of diarrhea,because they want the residents to socialize. The answer? Immodium AD.
The merry-go-round seesaw being what got her in the hospital in the first place with effusive diarrhea that wouldn't stop and constant spastic colon. We're talking a an 89-yr old woman. Abdominal spasms, liquid feces with no constructive muscle action, just spasms. Sitting on the toilet not being able to push out the liquid trying to pour out of her body. My sister (who has immune dysfunction) lives nearby and came to the rescue, changing diapers, bathing her, etc., etc., back in the bed, start all over again. This went on for about 10 hours, as it started in the middle of the night The staff found her in bed in a pool of liquid feces that morning and called my brother who called my sister.
I came down here as soon as I could get here (it takes me about 4 hours). The hospital got her "stable" and sent her home in one week. She still had no bowel control, but she wasn't pouring anymore. When I discovered the chinese formula and started administering it to her, her bowel movements became normal with normal muscle action within 2 days.
But the staff here won't give it to her. It's not approved by AMA or FDA.
And I am being forced to leave.
And Mama is talking suicide.
She's prescribed Xanex PRN during all this, but at 6 pm, everyone was in the dining hall getting things cleaned up after dinner, and no one answered the call. I gave her some Xanex I had on hand. She was better, watched some TV with me, and went to bed peacefully.
I'm up early this morning and am going to call her new doctor to see if she will insist that the home allow me to stay long enough to get Mama off Paxil. By then, perhaps her mind will be "back to normal" enough that she will remember to take the chinese medicine to keep her movements regular and healthy. Cross fingers.
I'm sorry this is so long, Dr. Gould, everybody... I didn't mean to say so much -- but it all seems necessary.
Namaste,
Ananda
Hi Ananada
I have been following your story although I didn't want to intervene as Paxiled had been providing good support.
It sounds like it may be too much for you to take on board at this time.
Is your mother comfortable where she is? I was just asking because she seems to have been uprooted a fair bit. And you also mentioned you lived a fair distance from her.
Would having her closer to you be more convenient?
I wouldn't like to see her relocated unless it was beneficial to her though (and it does seem like you're getting on top of things now).
Perhaps better communication between yourself and your brother is what is needed??
Being on the same page or wave-length would help a lot instead of both of you feeling overwhelmed or burdened. And your mother suffering because of it.
Have you spoken to a doctor about your own issues? Or discussed the panic with a therapist? That could potentially help you if you were interested.
I sense there is something I should be asking about your medication but are not sure what or how to phrase it.
My mum's the same with medication she takes as required. She finds the generics to be less effective.
I think you could do PoA if you wanted too. I think you have doubts and don't have confidence in your own ability. I think taking on all that responsibility scares you. I think you should carefully think about it before making any decision. Perhaps you could ask your brother about what is involved if you were still interested??
I don't envy you your position. It is a difficult one to be in.
Sometimes we need to look after our own health first. Sometimes we need to make others the priority.
Best wishes for everything.
J
I have been following your story although I didn't want to intervene as Paxiled had been providing good support.
It sounds like it may be too much for you to take on board at this time.
Is your mother comfortable where she is? I was just asking because she seems to have been uprooted a fair bit. And you also mentioned you lived a fair distance from her.
Would having her closer to you be more convenient?
I wouldn't like to see her relocated unless it was beneficial to her though (and it does seem like you're getting on top of things now).
Perhaps better communication between yourself and your brother is what is needed??
Being on the same page or wave-length would help a lot instead of both of you feeling overwhelmed or burdened. And your mother suffering because of it.
Have you spoken to a doctor about your own issues? Or discussed the panic with a therapist? That could potentially help you if you were interested.
I sense there is something I should be asking about your medication but are not sure what or how to phrase it.
My mum's the same with medication she takes as required. She finds the generics to be less effective.
I think you could do PoA if you wanted too. I think you have doubts and don't have confidence in your own ability. I think taking on all that responsibility scares you. I think you should carefully think about it before making any decision. Perhaps you could ask your brother about what is involved if you were still interested??
I don't envy you your position. It is a difficult one to be in.
Sometimes we need to look after our own health first. Sometimes we need to make others the priority.
Best wishes for everything.
J
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
If she continues to suffer from the effects it would be much better to taper her off, but simply lowering the dose without complete withdrawal may be enough for now.
Thank you so much for your support during this time. It's so good to have folks who are sensitive to what you are going through!
I've been thinking about the PoA thing, Jaquta, and the thing is, I have a panic disorder that kicks in really bad (for god only knows what reason) whenever dealing with legal papers and doctors and hospitals, and I've been thrown right into all of it right now. I'm reminded of the woman who picks up the car off her kid, if you know what I mean.Doing the impossible without thinking, for the love of my mama.
After each event, however, I'm utterally exhausted, wiped out and trembling. I've resorted to popping a Xanex every now and then, being careful not to take more than 1/2 every 12 hours. I figure I'll be all right doing it that way, popping a half before the big panic-producing task. It seems to be working.
Has to be the real thing, though. The generic makes me edgy for some reason.
So... could I do PoA? I dunno.
Hey, Paxiled ~ Thanks for the info on the whole chemical imbalance story. I didn't know that. Somehow I thought these guys who were good at it knew what they were doing. A **** shoot, huh? Yikes.
Namaste, Y'all!
(I salute the light within each and every one of you!)
Ananada
I've been thinking about the PoA thing, Jaquta, and the thing is, I have a panic disorder that kicks in really bad (for god only knows what reason) whenever dealing with legal papers and doctors and hospitals, and I've been thrown right into all of it right now. I'm reminded of the woman who picks up the car off her kid, if you know what I mean.Doing the impossible without thinking, for the love of my mama.
After each event, however, I'm utterally exhausted, wiped out and trembling. I've resorted to popping a Xanex every now and then, being careful not to take more than 1/2 every 12 hours. I figure I'll be all right doing it that way, popping a half before the big panic-producing task. It seems to be working.
Has to be the real thing, though. The generic makes me edgy for some reason.
So... could I do PoA? I dunno.
Hey, Paxiled ~ Thanks for the info on the whole chemical imbalance story. I didn't know that. Somehow I thought these guys who were good at it knew what they were doing. A **** shoot, huh? Yikes.
Namaste, Y'all!
(I salute the light within each and every one of you!)
Ananada
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