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Long-term Paxil withdrawal
I was taken off Paxil nearly three years ago by a psychiatrist, who used about a six week taper. At first I suffered a lot of disorientation and insomnia, then it evolved into intense depression, constant anxiety, and worse anxiety attacks. I was put on the drug for anxiety attacks. It's three years later and I'm still in constant anxiety, my phobias are way worse, and deeply depressed, so I ended up with three problems where I was only being originally treated for one. My psychiatrist didn't or refused to recognize this as Paxil withdrawal, but eventually I was able to go on the Net and find out what it was, but I can't find anyone who can tell me what to do about such a persistent problem. I'm now on Lexapro, but it hasn't helped much. I know now that if my psychiatrist had put me right back on Paxil and tapered more slowly I might have done much better, but he didn't offer that alternative or ever explain Paxil withdrawal to me, so here I am. Do you know of anyone I can talk to about this, who might have researched this problem; I haven't been able to find anyone, and several practitioners have refused to see me at all, probably because I lack income or they don't want to buck the pharmaceutical industry. I really don't know. I've lost three years of my life already. How do I find someone who truly knows how to help? The three psychiatrists I've seen are truly clueless about the drugs they prescribe.
Exactly! It's so hard for me to research this stuff, too, it elevates my already sky high anxiety level. That's why it took me so long to discover what my psychiatrist wasn't telling me.
Thank you for your great tips and encouraging words. It is such a double bind, because researching it kind of increases my anxiety, but I want to make sure I have all the information and tools that are out there.
It is sad. I really know my doctor was trying to do right by me, but it was such a bad move on her part. I just think about what a messed up society we're becoming as more and more of us are becoming crippled and enslaved lab rats because of these greedy drug companies. Sometimes it feels like everybody on something! If we all have to be on something to function we are lost
It is sad. I really know my doctor was trying to do right by me, but it was such a bad move on her part. I just think about what a messed up society we're becoming as more and more of us are becoming crippled and enslaved lab rats because of these greedy drug companies. Sometimes it feels like everybody on something! If we all have to be on something to function we are lost
Hi Paxiled
I wrote earlier but then had a connection pulled. I think someone tripped over it vs it being pulled deliberately. My brother has come home for the weekend and is being his usual contrary self. Don't do this, don't do that ... very annoying and exhausting.
Nobody in my family seems to understand or appreciate how using the computer, etc is a coping mechanism.
I hope you'll understand if I don't repeat my original post (ranging from Thich Nhat Hahn to involuntary hospitalization to sore backs, etc. I am really sorry about your back though).
I'm really struggling to post at the moment but will when I can.
Answering posts can be easier than self-reflection, etc so please don't be offended if I answer a post but don't write here.
J
I wrote earlier but then had a connection pulled. I think someone tripped over it vs it being pulled deliberately. My brother has come home for the weekend and is being his usual contrary self. Don't do this, don't do that ... very annoying and exhausting.
Nobody in my family seems to understand or appreciate how using the computer, etc is a coping mechanism.
I hope you'll understand if I don't repeat my original post (ranging from Thich Nhat Hahn to involuntary hospitalization to sore backs, etc. I am really sorry about your back though).
I'm really struggling to post at the moment but will when I can.
Answering posts can be easier than self-reflection, etc so please don't be offended if I answer a post but don't write here.
J
You know, before this withdrawal stuff happened, I used to have a saying that I think came from studying Buddhism a little: life *****, but that doesn't mean you have to be depressed about it. That just makes you suffer twice. But now this drug has made me into that depressed person I wasn't before, or in a different unexplainable way that I wasn't before. Life is hard when every day you got to bed and wake up intensely anxious and depressed. I have wished I was dead many times since this happened, but I'm afraid of suicide, and frankly lack the initiative. My only advice to you on that score is that thinking of suicide and doing it are completely different animals.
I thought of committing myself when I go completely nuts from this, but I'm too afraid to drive there, and my wife doesn't drive. Pretty dumb, huh? But from your description, maybe it was a good idea I didn't. I won't ask you why you went, it seems like something best not discussed.
No, it's not side effects from the new medication. I didn't start the Lexapro until a year of suffering had passed and I couldn't take it anymore. Other than feeling tired I haven't had many side effects from Lexapro, but then, it hasn't done a lot, either. I find that, for me, when a drug works, I get a lot of side effects. When it doesn't, I don't. I think that's probably a metabolizing thing; the better you metabolize a drug the better it works, but the more "side" effects you get for the same reason. The problem is, the body is fighting these foreign substances and we're forcing them past our immune systems. The body isn't adapted to them as it is to things we've taken for thousands and thousands of years. Perhaps in a century or two we'll adapt to them and they'll work better.
About writing: every character is partly me. I'm the only person whose thinking process I've ever experienced first-hand. But the characters, and this is a cliche but true, evolve and become whoever they are going to become. Usually when I start a story or a book I know only the beginning and end, they come to me. The rest is a mystery to me. When I read my own stuff after the passing of time I have no idea what I intended and it doesn't even sound like how I think, talk, or write. None of which helps getting published; it's very hard now, and I have no initiative left, and never had a lot to begin with. Just a lot of rejections and a lot of attempts unmade. None of which bothered me until I quit Paxil; I had decided that I wanted to leave behind some work that I had wanted to do all my life, writing I had done since junior high but kept leaving because of insecurity about women and income. Now, I obsess on my failures. I didn't used to do that. As I say, I'm just a person I don't recognize post-Paxil withdrawal, and would like to get back to being me again even though that me was a very flawed individual with agoraphobia. Mere agoraphobia looks like a golden age to me now.
You will age to have aches and pains. I can guarantee that. From playground basketball I have a bad knee. From Kung Fu I have bad ribs, and from somewhere I have a bad lower back. From an ill-fitting bicycle and hard riding I have a bad right buttocks that's pinching a nerve. From an automobile accident where a drunk driver used a car I was a passenger in for a brake I have no discs left in my cervical spine. Aging is lovely. Plus an enlarged prostate, though fortunately no cancer yet. Both my brother and father have had it, but I've taken far better care of myself so we'll see. But like democracy, aging is the worst possible system except for the alternative. Just keep stretching, and don't listen to doctors; if you have an injury see a massage therapist or a chiropractor or an osteopath or an acupuncturist, someone who can keep the energy and nutrients flowing to the injured area. If the doctors had told me that after the automobile accident I wouldn't have lost those discs.
I thought of committing myself when I go completely nuts from this, but I'm too afraid to drive there, and my wife doesn't drive. Pretty dumb, huh? But from your description, maybe it was a good idea I didn't. I won't ask you why you went, it seems like something best not discussed.
No, it's not side effects from the new medication. I didn't start the Lexapro until a year of suffering had passed and I couldn't take it anymore. Other than feeling tired I haven't had many side effects from Lexapro, but then, it hasn't done a lot, either. I find that, for me, when a drug works, I get a lot of side effects. When it doesn't, I don't. I think that's probably a metabolizing thing; the better you metabolize a drug the better it works, but the more "side" effects you get for the same reason. The problem is, the body is fighting these foreign substances and we're forcing them past our immune systems. The body isn't adapted to them as it is to things we've taken for thousands and thousands of years. Perhaps in a century or two we'll adapt to them and they'll work better.
About writing: every character is partly me. I'm the only person whose thinking process I've ever experienced first-hand. But the characters, and this is a cliche but true, evolve and become whoever they are going to become. Usually when I start a story or a book I know only the beginning and end, they come to me. The rest is a mystery to me. When I read my own stuff after the passing of time I have no idea what I intended and it doesn't even sound like how I think, talk, or write. None of which helps getting published; it's very hard now, and I have no initiative left, and never had a lot to begin with. Just a lot of rejections and a lot of attempts unmade. None of which bothered me until I quit Paxil; I had decided that I wanted to leave behind some work that I had wanted to do all my life, writing I had done since junior high but kept leaving because of insecurity about women and income. Now, I obsess on my failures. I didn't used to do that. As I say, I'm just a person I don't recognize post-Paxil withdrawal, and would like to get back to being me again even though that me was a very flawed individual with agoraphobia. Mere agoraphobia looks like a golden age to me now.
You will age to have aches and pains. I can guarantee that. From playground basketball I have a bad knee. From Kung Fu I have bad ribs, and from somewhere I have a bad lower back. From an ill-fitting bicycle and hard riding I have a bad right buttocks that's pinching a nerve. From an automobile accident where a drunk driver used a car I was a passenger in for a brake I have no discs left in my cervical spine. Aging is lovely. Plus an enlarged prostate, though fortunately no cancer yet. Both my brother and father have had it, but I've taken far better care of myself so we'll see. But like democracy, aging is the worst possible system except for the alternative. Just keep stretching, and don't listen to doctors; if you have an injury see a massage therapist or a chiropractor or an osteopath or an acupuncturist, someone who can keep the energy and nutrients flowing to the injured area. If the doctors had told me that after the automobile accident I wouldn't have lost those discs.
Yes. Most people seem to suffer mostly physical effects, but those electric shocks seem to be so awful that most people go back on the Paxil. You'll find better discussions of this if you go to Google and find chat rooms devoted to ssri withdrawal, or Paxil withdrawal. This board seems more suspicious of the bad side of drugs. You, of course, should never have been put on Paxil in the first place, one of its biggest side effects is insomnia. That's why I went off it, despite all the other side effects, it did help, but the insomnia kept me from being productive. The book is mostly devoted to treating withdrawal at the beginning, however, not discussing much what happens afterwards. In other words, it tries to present a program for preventing withdrawal in the first place and treating it quickly when it does. If only I'd read it before I went off the drug; my psychiatrist never warned me of withdrawal and when I got it denied it had anything to do with the Paxil. I had to learn it on the internet, but only after much time had passed. From what I've read, your symptoms, because they're largely physical, should pass, but everyone is different in how quickly they do, and I've read that many people get temporary relapses for years afterward. Try the fish oil, it's easy to do. I got the information from a website devoted to Paxil withdrawal. A lot of people mentioned it helped, and, as I say, although I got clicks in my head and a lot of disorientation, I didn't get the full zaps probably because I was taking the fish oil already. I also think the fact you're a dancer probably minimized the other withdrawal symptoms, so keep at it. You're not an extreme case like me, so I have full confidence you will get back to normal again. I'm still flabbergasted they'd put you on it just for insomnia, though. I read so many horrible stories on the chat rooms about people who'd been put on this very strong drug for such minor problems when so many less intrusive methods could have been tried first. So much ignorance out there among the ones who are supposed to know the most!
Thanks for getting back to me. That is horrifying that you have been suffering this long! Does this book you mentioned; The antidepressant solution talk about the physical effects? Thanks.
If you've read the previous thread, I'm the guy who's been suffering for three years, but keep in mind that's an extreme case. My problem is partly physical but mostly emotional, which is way worse. What I would recommend is that you try taking fish oil supplements. Many have suggested they reduce or eliminate the electric shock part of withdrawal. I never got the electric shocks probably because I was already taking fish oil and other natural supplements. Give it a try -- it's good for you anyway. I recommend the Omega 3 by Nordic Naturals because I trust the purity of the fish they use.
I've been off paxil for 6 months and still experiencing the bizarre supposedly non-existent physical side effects. I have what they are calling "zaps" on paxil withdrawl support sites. It is like electricity shooting down my spine and into my limbs. I thought at first I had a spinal injury or worse MS, after several tests later and a lot of web searching I realized these showed up around the same time I started going off paxil and are consistent with what other users experienced. My doctor just says I do extreme things with my body (I'm a professional dancer) and things like this will happen. I have danced since I was 5.... 25 years total and never had anything like this. Why would it happen now? Especially when xrays, bone scans and catscans show NOTHING no bone joint or nerve damage. It is the paxil withdrawl. I'm just hoping I'm not going to be like this forever. It is scary and disorienting, and it triggers anxiety. It IS NOT caused by anxiety. I will be fine and happy dancin along and then I move my head in a nodding manner in some choreography and lighting shoots painfully through my body. Thanks Glaxo smith kline! You guys really screwed me! Doctors and pharmicists and drug pushing companies can jeep telling us it's all in our heads. We're an easy target.. anxiety sufferers and depressed persons...loonies. I was put on this for MILD INSOMNIA. There was a time when they told people electroshock didn't have side effects too. I'd really like to talk to someone that has been off (completely) for 6+ months. How long does this last?
It's beginning to feel like it. I feel I've been pretty fortunate with my health (in the past).
(A foot caught in the spokes of a bike, a fall from the school roof, a splinter in my bottom, being knocked off my bike and then run over, an asthma attack, sprained ankles, blisters, cuts and bruises, slipped discs, being knocked out after a car accident, many knocks to the head (one I tried to imitate my sister belly flopping into the pool and I donged my head on the bottom -very silly. Another was at the gym when I hit my head on an olympic bar I was about to bench press -very dumb. And someone hit me in the head with a steel rod), I don't count the near drowning (despite being blue) as that was very peaceful and relaxing. And other than scarlet fever, bronchitis and hay-fever I've been pretty healthy. Psych stuff not included.
You're many decades older than me and you definitely sound much healthier.
I might end up a tragic old arthritic lady bumping into everyone with her scooter or zimmer frame. Hopefully not though.
I don't think it necessarily means it's genetic, probably more environmental.
Never! Many clinicians would be out of business if they were to do that.
In the private sector there is more accountability though and people just wouldn't go back if they weren't getting results, or something, from the visit.
I'm open to things, to a degree. I'm very conservative or traditional so things way outside the square would be challenging for me to receive and accept.
God? Based on science it seems unlikely. However, I believe many people have a need to believe.
I don't trust but I do pray for trust, guidance, understanding and safety. During the period in which I was threatened with ect that was about all I did -pray. I feel someone is looking out for me, goodness knows why, but often I do feel protected. I believe everything in life happens for a reason.
I believe in spirituality but that's about as far as I can commit at this time.
We probably don't see very well as we have concussion from walking into it.
True. I find microscopic stuff incredibly challenging, I prefer macro.
The ancient Greeks library would have been fascinating to have accessed.
Our blueprints affect how we perceive things. I believe these can be changed.
Nature vs nurture? Chicken or egg??
It can be about greed and not humanity.
Maybe they weren't withdrawal symptoms but new side-effects (as one would expect when starting a new medication)?
With some medications you need a period of time between them. Maybe the health products could have contributed??
I haven't done a lot of research on bi-polar. People can have hypo-manic phases. Maybe you're just stuck in the depressive phase?
Perhaps you could try doing a search on both bi-polar I and II?
I feel my life changed significantly following my admission to the psych ward. My symptoms on discharge were different and in my opinion worse than on admission. My parents complained about the treatment I received, illegally, while in hospital. The hospital did take responsibility for the discharge planning and the process has since been changed.
I have a lot to say about how things were worse, etc but now is perhaps not such a good time.
I've been feeling suicidal again and it's perhaps not a good idea for me to be re-visiting stuff that can potentially trigger me.
(I forgot to add the fracture from being restrained by big fat mental health professionals to my list of injuries/ illnesses).
J
(A foot caught in the spokes of a bike, a fall from the school roof, a splinter in my bottom, being knocked off my bike and then run over, an asthma attack, sprained ankles, blisters, cuts and bruises, slipped discs, being knocked out after a car accident, many knocks to the head (one I tried to imitate my sister belly flopping into the pool and I donged my head on the bottom -very silly. Another was at the gym when I hit my head on an olympic bar I was about to bench press -very dumb. And someone hit me in the head with a steel rod), I don't count the near drowning (despite being blue) as that was very peaceful and relaxing. And other than scarlet fever, bronchitis and hay-fever I've been pretty healthy. Psych stuff not included.
You're many decades older than me and you definitely sound much healthier.
I might end up a tragic old arthritic lady bumping into everyone with her scooter or zimmer frame. Hopefully not though.
I don't think it necessarily means it's genetic, probably more environmental.
Never! Many clinicians would be out of business if they were to do that.
In the private sector there is more accountability though and people just wouldn't go back if they weren't getting results, or something, from the visit.
I'm open to things, to a degree. I'm very conservative or traditional so things way outside the square would be challenging for me to receive and accept.
God? Based on science it seems unlikely. However, I believe many people have a need to believe.
I don't trust but I do pray for trust, guidance, understanding and safety. During the period in which I was threatened with ect that was about all I did -pray. I feel someone is looking out for me, goodness knows why, but often I do feel protected. I believe everything in life happens for a reason.
I believe in spirituality but that's about as far as I can commit at this time.
We probably don't see very well as we have concussion from walking into it.
True. I find microscopic stuff incredibly challenging, I prefer macro.
The ancient Greeks library would have been fascinating to have accessed.
Our blueprints affect how we perceive things. I believe these can be changed.
Nature vs nurture? Chicken or egg??
It can be about greed and not humanity.
Maybe they weren't withdrawal symptoms but new side-effects (as one would expect when starting a new medication)?
With some medications you need a period of time between them. Maybe the health products could have contributed??
I haven't done a lot of research on bi-polar. People can have hypo-manic phases. Maybe you're just stuck in the depressive phase?
Perhaps you could try doing a search on both bi-polar I and II?
I feel my life changed significantly following my admission to the psych ward. My symptoms on discharge were different and in my opinion worse than on admission. My parents complained about the treatment I received, illegally, while in hospital. The hospital did take responsibility for the discharge planning and the process has since been changed.
I have a lot to say about how things were worse, etc but now is perhaps not such a good time.
I've been feeling suicidal again and it's perhaps not a good idea for me to be re-visiting stuff that can potentially trigger me.
(I forgot to add the fracture from being restrained by big fat mental health professionals to my list of injuries/ illnesses).
J
Again forgot something. Tryptophan isn't necessarily so good for building serotonin in the brain. Works for some, but most serotonin in the body isn't in the brain, it's in the gut and other places as well. Hard to get it where you want it. 5HTP, a step up on the chain of tryptophan, works better. Anyway, I tried it and tyrosine, but it made the withdrawal worse. As i said, my intention after quitting Paxil was to try and do it with natural stuff, but after quitting everything fed into the withdrawal instead of working as it would normally. Or not work at all. Everything made me worse, or most everything. Going off Paxil just did something very weird to me, and to a lot of people, though I hear it's not as bad as going off effexor.
My psychiatrist keeps trying to tell me I'm bipolar. I keep asking where the manic episodes are -- where's the fun part? He's such a dork, when I need more than a refill I pay for a psychiatrist out of my health plan.
My psychiatrist keeps trying to tell me I'm bipolar. I keep asking where the manic episodes are -- where's the fun part? He's such a dork, when I need more than a refill I pay for a psychiatrist out of my health plan.
Sounds like you've been through the wringer with your health. Fortunately, my body has been relatively healthy. So far, anyway.
Oh yeah, I had issues before going off Paxil. That's why I ended up on it. I suffered from depressive episodes following break-ups, but the real bad one was when I got the panic attacks/agoraphobia. My sister had it, too. Not sure what that means. But through all that I was functional, and didn't have nearly the intensity of things I have now, nor the combination. Just a completely different animal.
I had a girlfriend who was a nurse and studied some kind of energy healing, but it was illegal to practice it so she only did it when people were sleeping. There are people who work with energy fields, who can see them; I saw one a couple of times, he was from Poland and was brought to the US because he had been very successful. Here's the great thing about it -- it didn't work, so he gave me my money back. Ever hear of any practitioner giving you your money back because they failed to help? I'm not really a believer in most of these things, but I'm not a disbeliever, either. It's like God -- no way to prove it one way or the other, so it's more a matter of faith than reason. But it would be equally wrong to discount all these things -- life is a mystery, most truth is hidden to us so far. Amazing how the ancient Hindus and Greeks knew a wall really isn't solid, it just looks like it is because we don't see very well. Now we know it's made up of microscopic particles with lots of space between them, constantly moving, not solid at all, but people have known this for centuries, they just couldn't prove it. Now we can.
I think a combination of techniques is probably best. The cognitive idea that no matter what you learn in therapy, you'll still be conditioned by the way you think makes sense to me, though it never helped me (yet). But it also has always seemed important to learn if there is a first cause. I don't know, my sister and I never spent much time together, she was seven years older and we spent much of our lives living in separate cities, but to have the same mental illness is more than coincidence. That would argue for some biological cause. But who knows? We also grew up with the same family.
I believe it's illegal in this country to use children in drug trials, so companies go to Africa and buy their way in sometimes. Usually ends in scandal and lawsuits. But they also kick out anyone who's more than moderately ill from studies, and you'd be surprised at few people are studied, how short the studies are, how few people the drugs help, and how well placebo does. It's not all about money, but too much about money.
Oh yeah, I had issues before going off Paxil. That's why I ended up on it. I suffered from depressive episodes following break-ups, but the real bad one was when I got the panic attacks/agoraphobia. My sister had it, too. Not sure what that means. But through all that I was functional, and didn't have nearly the intensity of things I have now, nor the combination. Just a completely different animal.
I had a girlfriend who was a nurse and studied some kind of energy healing, but it was illegal to practice it so she only did it when people were sleeping. There are people who work with energy fields, who can see them; I saw one a couple of times, he was from Poland and was brought to the US because he had been very successful. Here's the great thing about it -- it didn't work, so he gave me my money back. Ever hear of any practitioner giving you your money back because they failed to help? I'm not really a believer in most of these things, but I'm not a disbeliever, either. It's like God -- no way to prove it one way or the other, so it's more a matter of faith than reason. But it would be equally wrong to discount all these things -- life is a mystery, most truth is hidden to us so far. Amazing how the ancient Hindus and Greeks knew a wall really isn't solid, it just looks like it is because we don't see very well. Now we know it's made up of microscopic particles with lots of space between them, constantly moving, not solid at all, but people have known this for centuries, they just couldn't prove it. Now we can.
I think a combination of techniques is probably best. The cognitive idea that no matter what you learn in therapy, you'll still be conditioned by the way you think makes sense to me, though it never helped me (yet). But it also has always seemed important to learn if there is a first cause. I don't know, my sister and I never spent much time together, she was seven years older and we spent much of our lives living in separate cities, but to have the same mental illness is more than coincidence. That would argue for some biological cause. But who knows? We also grew up with the same family.
I believe it's illegal in this country to use children in drug trials, so companies go to Africa and buy their way in sometimes. Usually ends in scandal and lawsuits. But they also kick out anyone who's more than moderately ill from studies, and you'd be surprised at few people are studied, how short the studies are, how few people the drugs help, and how well placebo does. It's not all about money, but too much about money.
Hi
You did mention managing health food stores in a previous post.
One of your comments reminded me of exorcisms. That wasn't what I was referring too though. That is something I would never recommend to anyone.
Some people report relief after acupuncture, Chinese herbal medicines, etc.
I rang the psych emergency team one day when I felt I was in crisis and the PET team member told me how when he'd been really sick he'd been divined. Similar to divining for water. Personally, I wasn't sure who was sicker, he or I. Anyway, he said this person diagnosed him with Leptospirosis.
When I was in hospital I had a reaction to one of the medications I was given and was having problems breathing. One of the nurses started doing this energy field thing on me. I didn't think it was appropriate, nor had I consented to it. I was somewhat relieved when the doctor came running into the room.
Anyway, there are lots of alternative and traditional ways of healing on the market. People just need to be extremely cautious regarding them and their claims.
In some cities and countries it is probably safer to drive than cycle, etc. Beijing was probably a good example.
Some people choose to take precursors for certain chemicals they are said to be deficient in. For example, L-Trotophan (excuse my spelling) for serotonin and L-Tyrosine for dopamine.
Maybe you projected elements of yourself onto your character?
Boring for whom? The reader or the writer?
It sounds like there were issues before the medication was stopped.
I agree. I would think it would be the other way round. Symptoms in adults may also be experienced in children. I'm not sure how many children are recruited for drug trials. That's just semantics though.
Some anti-depressants are said to reduce both anxiety and depression.
Co-morbidity is probably fairly common with psych diagnoses.
I have bpd. The % of bpd with depression is said to be 50, while the % of depression with bpd is only 15. I'm not sure about the stats for anxiety.
I guess the important thing is diagnosing the primary issue. It must be quite difficult at times to do this. Easier in acute situations I expect.
With the number of disorders and the potential criteria one can present with ... I guess it makes a doctors job challenging (and interesting).
I think the onus is on finding the best treatment for us. No two people are the same and can respond to completely different treatments.
With regards to therapy, my current preference is for psychoanalysis.
Everyone claims their therapies are successful. CBT, DBT, CAT, TFP, etc, etc.
We just need to find something that works for us.
When you're in the right treatment it just seems to flow. That has been my experience. If it's a tug of war then something is wrong or going on.
J
You did mention managing health food stores in a previous post.
One of your comments reminded me of exorcisms. That wasn't what I was referring too though. That is something I would never recommend to anyone.
Some people report relief after acupuncture, Chinese herbal medicines, etc.
I rang the psych emergency team one day when I felt I was in crisis and the PET team member told me how when he'd been really sick he'd been divined. Similar to divining for water. Personally, I wasn't sure who was sicker, he or I. Anyway, he said this person diagnosed him with Leptospirosis.
When I was in hospital I had a reaction to one of the medications I was given and was having problems breathing. One of the nurses started doing this energy field thing on me. I didn't think it was appropriate, nor had I consented to it. I was somewhat relieved when the doctor came running into the room.
Anyway, there are lots of alternative and traditional ways of healing on the market. People just need to be extremely cautious regarding them and their claims.
In some cities and countries it is probably safer to drive than cycle, etc. Beijing was probably a good example.
Some people choose to take precursors for certain chemicals they are said to be deficient in. For example, L-Trotophan (excuse my spelling) for serotonin and L-Tyrosine for dopamine.
Maybe you projected elements of yourself onto your character?
Boring for whom? The reader or the writer?
It sounds like there were issues before the medication was stopped.
I agree. I would think it would be the other way round. Symptoms in adults may also be experienced in children. I'm not sure how many children are recruited for drug trials. That's just semantics though.
Some anti-depressants are said to reduce both anxiety and depression.
Co-morbidity is probably fairly common with psych diagnoses.
I have bpd. The % of bpd with depression is said to be 50, while the % of depression with bpd is only 15. I'm not sure about the stats for anxiety.
I guess the important thing is diagnosing the primary issue. It must be quite difficult at times to do this. Easier in acute situations I expect.
With the number of disorders and the potential criteria one can present with ... I guess it makes a doctors job challenging (and interesting).
I think the onus is on finding the best treatment for us. No two people are the same and can respond to completely different treatments.
With regards to therapy, my current preference is for psychoanalysis.
Everyone claims their therapies are successful. CBT, DBT, CAT, TFP, etc, etc.
We just need to find something that works for us.
When you're in the right treatment it just seems to flow. That has been my experience. If it's a tug of war then something is wrong or going on.
J
Funny you should mention natural remedies. I managed health food stores for 18 yrs. That's what I intended to do when I went off the Paxil, but after I did they had the opposite effect, so I'm afraid to take them, too, except for a couple and homeopathics, which have helped some. Ironic again, eh? As for the toxins of driving, well, she's driving anyway, better to reduce the toxins one can. I also eat organic food. Besides being better for the earth and me, it tastes better -- vegetables I used to hate are nice and sweet now, grown for flavor with real seeds instead of those genetically engineered for selling purposes only.
Writing about these only works, if it works at all, for non-writers. For writers, it's just torment, that is, if you strive to write serious work, as I do. I did write a novel with a character in it who went through Paxil withdrawal, but it was a novel about torture and its many forms, not about me. I've thought about writing a memoir since I can't get my serious fiction published yet -- no market for it anymore -- but I don't know, seems boring to write about myself. I've written three novels, but no agent. That's why I went off the Paxil -- wasn't able to write on it very well, and it gave me insomnia, I guess working 10 to 12 hours a day running around stores allowed me to sleep, but when I stopped I started thinking obsessively as soon as I hit the bed, then I'd sleep all afternoon. That was the final straw with the drug, and I had my psychiatrist take me off it thinking I'd try to replace it with natural remedies that produce serotonin instead of reusing it. But, alas, never got the chance. As I said, sure wish somebody had warned me about withdrawal before I quit.
Your right about children, but not completely. A lot of the problems these drugs produce in children are also produced in adults, like the suicidal thinking and violent thoughts. And on the other hand, others have suicidal thoughts that are controlled by the drugs. It's a pickle, damned if you do and damned if you don't. As for there being treatments for anxiety, depression, etc., not really, not if you have them all at once. For example, treatment for panic attacks is much more difficult if you also suffer from depression than if you don't, and the only double blind studies I've been able to find about cognitive therapy, supposedly the gold standard, show about a 30% success rate. Same with drugs, by the way. Which doesn't mean anyone should give up trying, just that it's damned hard.
Writing about these only works, if it works at all, for non-writers. For writers, it's just torment, that is, if you strive to write serious work, as I do. I did write a novel with a character in it who went through Paxil withdrawal, but it was a novel about torture and its many forms, not about me. I've thought about writing a memoir since I can't get my serious fiction published yet -- no market for it anymore -- but I don't know, seems boring to write about myself. I've written three novels, but no agent. That's why I went off the Paxil -- wasn't able to write on it very well, and it gave me insomnia, I guess working 10 to 12 hours a day running around stores allowed me to sleep, but when I stopped I started thinking obsessively as soon as I hit the bed, then I'd sleep all afternoon. That was the final straw with the drug, and I had my psychiatrist take me off it thinking I'd try to replace it with natural remedies that produce serotonin instead of reusing it. But, alas, never got the chance. As I said, sure wish somebody had warned me about withdrawal before I quit.
Your right about children, but not completely. A lot of the problems these drugs produce in children are also produced in adults, like the suicidal thinking and violent thoughts. And on the other hand, others have suicidal thoughts that are controlled by the drugs. It's a pickle, damned if you do and damned if you don't. As for there being treatments for anxiety, depression, etc., not really, not if you have them all at once. For example, treatment for panic attacks is much more difficult if you also suffer from depression than if you don't, and the only double blind studies I've been able to find about cognitive therapy, supposedly the gold standard, show about a 30% success rate. Same with drugs, by the way. Which doesn't mean anyone should give up trying, just that it's damned hard.
To Paxiled
It's understandable that you would feel afraid of medication and be wary of health professionals. Who wouldn't?
I have severe trust issues following my experiences within the mhs. Even after five years of weekly visits (plus or minus a few weeks) to my GP, I can still lack confidence and trust in him and his ability. I have a good relationship with him though so I can at least discuss my concerns.
Trust can be an important component in recovery and if you don't trust your doctor I would strongly recommend you see someone else. (If that is an option).
I categorically refuse to use our psychiatric emergency team as I have no confidence in them what so ever. This is almost the same with their out-patient clinics too.
I think I am probably better off with no support, than bad and damaging support.
You sound like me with all your symptoms. I think the obsessing can be the worst as you just keep re-traumatizing yourself and get stuck (and then feel more anxious and depressed and unwell so feel more anxious, depressed and unwell, etc, etc).
I learned from therapy that being self-absorbed isn't that bad of a thing. We can feel selfish and self-centered but the reality is we need to be. When we're this unwell we need to do that in order to survive.
Some of my symptoms too seemed to have a definite origin but looking back I think they were probably pretty insidious. Hard to say really.
My initial depressive symptoms followed a near drowning. The psychiatrist I saw later told me I stood out because it is unusual for patients to pin-point exactly when symptoms first occur. I don't understand the significance of this.
Perhaps it was just the straw that broke the camels back?
(It had been a difficult period for me. Leaving work to look after mum and help my father. Watching mum have seizures. Seeing her stop breathing and watching her being ventilated. Also the day of my accident I had seen a person from school. He reminded of someone else at school who had shot himself and another person who a year later to the day had jumped off the roof of a car-park building).
I couldn't imagine what it would be like on four different meds. It was bad enough on two (an antibiotic and an anti-inflammatory) after I had my wisdom teeth out last year.
I was going to ask you about the writing. Have you thought about writing about your story and your experiences? It could help give you some closure.
A lot of meds have off-label uses. Tranquilizers or anti-convulsants, etc could potentially be used for ssri withdrawal.
There are several books out about the dangers, etc of medications. A number of those are on prozac.
Doctors don't know what has caused it. I associated it with the stopping of the anti-anxiety medication I was taking at the time. It's probably an erroneous association though. It could also be due to diet, stress, the fact we live ?200 m from pylons, exposure to chemicals. Who knows?
I'm sorry for the loss of your mother.
I think life is more a search for meaning. That reminds me of the title of a book. Man's search for meaning, by Victor Frankyl.
I think we understand very little but we know a lot, doctors inclusive.
My GP always respects his limitations and occasionally reminds me, that he too is fallible.
Have you tried looking at alternate medicine?
To Melissa,
Did it not occur to you either that perhaps the post-partum depression was no longer an issue?
I guess we don't know what we don't know.
Mild symptoms can respond to medications too. It can also be a personal preference. Whether to take meds or not.
Medications often carry warnings for different populations. For example, for pregnant women, for seniors, for children, for those with liver damage, etc.
Regardless of weight children's brains are still developing.
I'm sorry about your friend.
My mother's Tai Chi instructor has leukemia and she sticks to organic foods. She also doesn't microwave stuff because of the toxins released by some packaging during heating. She probably exposes herself to more toxins just from driving between her tai chi classes. They're personal choices though.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
J
It's understandable that you would feel afraid of medication and be wary of health professionals. Who wouldn't?
I have severe trust issues following my experiences within the mhs. Even after five years of weekly visits (plus or minus a few weeks) to my GP, I can still lack confidence and trust in him and his ability. I have a good relationship with him though so I can at least discuss my concerns.
Trust can be an important component in recovery and if you don't trust your doctor I would strongly recommend you see someone else. (If that is an option).
I categorically refuse to use our psychiatric emergency team as I have no confidence in them what so ever. This is almost the same with their out-patient clinics too.
I think I am probably better off with no support, than bad and damaging support.
You sound like me with all your symptoms. I think the obsessing can be the worst as you just keep re-traumatizing yourself and get stuck (and then feel more anxious and depressed and unwell so feel more anxious, depressed and unwell, etc, etc).
I learned from therapy that being self-absorbed isn't that bad of a thing. We can feel selfish and self-centered but the reality is we need to be. When we're this unwell we need to do that in order to survive.
Some of my symptoms too seemed to have a definite origin but looking back I think they were probably pretty insidious. Hard to say really.
My initial depressive symptoms followed a near drowning. The psychiatrist I saw later told me I stood out because it is unusual for patients to pin-point exactly when symptoms first occur. I don't understand the significance of this.
Perhaps it was just the straw that broke the camels back?
(It had been a difficult period for me. Leaving work to look after mum and help my father. Watching mum have seizures. Seeing her stop breathing and watching her being ventilated. Also the day of my accident I had seen a person from school. He reminded of someone else at school who had shot himself and another person who a year later to the day had jumped off the roof of a car-park building).
I couldn't imagine what it would be like on four different meds. It was bad enough on two (an antibiotic and an anti-inflammatory) after I had my wisdom teeth out last year.
I was going to ask you about the writing. Have you thought about writing about your story and your experiences? It could help give you some closure.
A lot of meds have off-label uses. Tranquilizers or anti-convulsants, etc could potentially be used for ssri withdrawal.
There are several books out about the dangers, etc of medications. A number of those are on prozac.
Doctors don't know what has caused it. I associated it with the stopping of the anti-anxiety medication I was taking at the time. It's probably an erroneous association though. It could also be due to diet, stress, the fact we live ?200 m from pylons, exposure to chemicals. Who knows?
I'm sorry for the loss of your mother.
I think life is more a search for meaning. That reminds me of the title of a book. Man's search for meaning, by Victor Frankyl.
I think we understand very little but we know a lot, doctors inclusive.
My GP always respects his limitations and occasionally reminds me, that he too is fallible.
Have you tried looking at alternate medicine?
To Melissa,
Did it not occur to you either that perhaps the post-partum depression was no longer an issue?
I guess we don't know what we don't know.
Mild symptoms can respond to medications too. It can also be a personal preference. Whether to take meds or not.
Medications often carry warnings for different populations. For example, for pregnant women, for seniors, for children, for those with liver damage, etc.
Regardless of weight children's brains are still developing.
I'm sorry about your friend.
My mother's Tai Chi instructor has leukemia and she sticks to organic foods. She also doesn't microwave stuff because of the toxins released by some packaging during heating. She probably exposes herself to more toxins just from driving between her tai chi classes. They're personal choices though.
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
J
Not all medical psychiatrists or physicians, but I agree that our psychiatric system and family medical system is now based on how much money the pharmaceutical companies will give you to push their product. I am 33 and have been on 3 different meds for post partum which occured 10 years ago. My psychiatrist never suggest that maybe post partum is gone and you should try to stop taking it, but instead kept pushing the meds by upping the dose and changing meds. Every new drug on the market at that time was the right drug for me, of course that was his opinion. I do know that there are severe cases that are in need of meds, but not for mild symptoms.
I believe that they put us at risk for many other problems when they are used too long or even taken to begin with. I have been off of effexor for 3 weeks now. I weaned myself off gradually not by how the doctor was telling me to do it, but by taking it into my own hands and realizing that 5 days was not enough time to go off meds that I had been on for 10 years. I finally conquered weaning myself and finally am off of the meds. It was hell even when I weaned myself off. I am no longer depressed (I was when I was on the meds) and feel a little bit better. I still have shakiness, nausiness, and dizziness. I know that I have to get through this. I will not go on the meds again. I will use my faith and perserverance to conquer this. IT is not going to be a piece of cake but through support and understanding it will happen.
to J: Just because my son was 7 does not necessarily mean that the meds react differently in adult compared to a child. My child is 126 lbs and 5'2, so he is bigger than some adults and most of the time they base the meds on weight. His symptoms may be different but most drugs have the same side effects listed for adults and children. I am sorry about the cancer, I have a very good friend that has breast cancer and ovarian cancer. She has been such an inspiration to alot of people, due to her extremely positive attitude and does not use any meds of any kind to help her through it. Of course, everyone is different, but she has never put any kind of meds in her body except once she used a antibiotic but otherwise has restrained from using even tylenol. She uses natural remedies and uses a juicer to get many of the nutrients that are needed. The doctor cannot believe how miraculous she is doing and has commented to her that he wished there were alot more people out there that did not put all the bad stuff in their body. She struggles at times but feels that this is her way to be healthy and happy. I just wish someone would have taught me this when I was young. I wish the best for you and will pray for your recovery.
Thanks.
I believe that they put us at risk for many other problems when they are used too long or even taken to begin with. I have been off of effexor for 3 weeks now. I weaned myself off gradually not by how the doctor was telling me to do it, but by taking it into my own hands and realizing that 5 days was not enough time to go off meds that I had been on for 10 years. I finally conquered weaning myself and finally am off of the meds. It was hell even when I weaned myself off. I am no longer depressed (I was when I was on the meds) and feel a little bit better. I still have shakiness, nausiness, and dizziness. I know that I have to get through this. I will not go on the meds again. I will use my faith and perserverance to conquer this. IT is not going to be a piece of cake but through support and understanding it will happen.
to J: Just because my son was 7 does not necessarily mean that the meds react differently in adult compared to a child. My child is 126 lbs and 5'2, so he is bigger than some adults and most of the time they base the meds on weight. His symptoms may be different but most drugs have the same side effects listed for adults and children. I am sorry about the cancer, I have a very good friend that has breast cancer and ovarian cancer. She has been such an inspiration to alot of people, due to her extremely positive attitude and does not use any meds of any kind to help her through it. Of course, everyone is different, but she has never put any kind of meds in her body except once she used a antibiotic but otherwise has restrained from using even tylenol. She uses natural remedies and uses a juicer to get many of the nutrients that are needed. The doctor cannot believe how miraculous she is doing and has commented to her that he wished there were alot more people out there that did not put all the bad stuff in their body. She struggles at times but feels that this is her way to be healthy and happy. I just wish someone would have taught me this when I was young. I wish the best for you and will pray for your recovery.
Thanks.
J -- I guess the truth is, I'm afraid of the meds now, after what happened. But also, it's not that I would never take something, it's that I don't trust my health plan psychiatrist because he got me into this in the first place. The other two psychiatrists I saw on my own don't recommend a lot of meds, given both my experience with Paxil and their inability to know just how to deal with all of this. There's been memory loss, disorientation, loss of my sense of humor, inability to enjoy things I always enjoyed, obsession with myself and my past, just so many symptoms. It may be that the only way to get back is to go back on Paxil for the rest of my life, but that's a last resort. I don't really know how to answer you without you having seen what happened and how fast it happened. I decided to wait it out, but it never went away, and I don't want to live a life all drugged up. I'm a writer, and I went off the Paxil because the new side effects were getting in my way; imagine what it would be like on four different drugs? Just doesn't make sense to me, especially since none of them was created or used to deal with ssri withdrawal. I'm just looking for somebody who knows something, but the only person I found is a Joseph (I think) Glanville, at least I think that's his name, who wrote a book called The Antidepressant Solution. It's a book about what drugs do to people, and about withdrawal and how to best deal with it. Wish I'd read it before I quit Paxil, because my psychiatrist didn't know anything about withdrawal, or claims not to. I did try to contact the author, but he never responded either to me or one of the psychiatrists I've seen.
Melissa: Got to look out for yourself. The true fact is, psychologists and psychiatrists, and doctors in general, know virtually nothing about disease and how to deal with it. They're mostly following protocols established by pharmaceutical companies, not medicine. Look at medicine a hundred years ago and how barbaric it was, and now think what people a hundred years from now will say about us. And thanks for the prayer.
And J: I know it's hard with cancer. It's a disease of the immune system and doctors only treat the symptoms, not the cause. I lost my mother to cancer many years ago, and I also met a lot of long time survivors when I managed health food stores, which I did for eighteen years. Always remember, it's not how long one lives, it's how good one feels while one is alive. Do what makes you have the best life. And what the hell is reality? Life is a search for facts, not usually a discovery of any. There's so much information and so little fact. Doctors know little, but they can't tell us that, we need to have confidence in them to get better, so we have to tell which doctor is just a quack and which are just being positive. There's a lot of shaman still in any good physician.
Melissa: Got to look out for yourself. The true fact is, psychologists and psychiatrists, and doctors in general, know virtually nothing about disease and how to deal with it. They're mostly following protocols established by pharmaceutical companies, not medicine. Look at medicine a hundred years ago and how barbaric it was, and now think what people a hundred years from now will say about us. And thanks for the prayer.
And J: I know it's hard with cancer. It's a disease of the immune system and doctors only treat the symptoms, not the cause. I lost my mother to cancer many years ago, and I also met a lot of long time survivors when I managed health food stores, which I did for eighteen years. Always remember, it's not how long one lives, it's how good one feels while one is alive. Do what makes you have the best life. And what the hell is reality? Life is a search for facts, not usually a discovery of any. There's so much information and so little fact. Doctors know little, but they can't tell us that, we need to have confidence in them to get better, so we have to tell which doctor is just a quack and which are just being positive. There's a lot of shaman still in any good physician.
I think pediatrics is a little different as the brain is still developing.
Many psych medications carry warnings for the use in younger individuals.
You were right to discuss these symptoms with your son's psychiatrist and then when no positive changes were evident, to research and take action yourself.
It can potentially be very dangerous but in your situation it proved advantageous.
This is also about responsible parenting and knowing your child.
OCD is something that could have been worked through in therapy with your son.
Sometimes medications are used as a first resort because clinicians are just plain to lazy (and/ or under-resourced) to address the real issues.
I'm glad your son has survived this and is on the mend.
J
Many psych medications carry warnings for the use in younger individuals.
You were right to discuss these symptoms with your son's psychiatrist and then when no positive changes were evident, to research and take action yourself.
It can potentially be very dangerous but in your situation it proved advantageous.
This is also about responsible parenting and knowing your child.
OCD is something that could have been worked through in therapy with your son.
Sometimes medications are used as a first resort because clinicians are just plain to lazy (and/ or under-resourced) to address the real issues.
I'm glad your son has survived this and is on the mend.
J
I totally understand what you are going through because my son went through this when he was put on zoloft. The pediatric psychiatrist insisted that my son had OCD and zoloft was the answer. So she started him on this and immediately I was concerned. I noticed his moods were horrible, he started having tics, anger, and did not sleep. I explained this to the psych but she just uped the dose. Every time the dose was changed the syptoms got worse. In fact, the more he was on the med the more new problems came up. He was now depressed and had extreme anxiety.
The doctor did not do anything about this so I gradually weened him off of the zoloft within 3 months. I new by doing my own research, even though I paid a psychiatrist, that he needed to be weened off very slowly or the outcome could be traumatic.
Well, he was 7 when he went off of the zoloft and finally by the age of 10 he finally is just about back to normal. He still has a couple tics.
When I ended up telling the dr. at our next appt. she was very upset that I had done this. She said that I could have really harmed my child. I told her that this med was harming him and that you did nothing about it so we, mother and father, did what was best for OUR child. She finally realized this at the next session and since that episode, she has been a wonderful psychiatrist for my son. If fact he no longer has the OCD diagnosis. She removed that from his records.
I hope that this helps you and others in understanding that some of these meds cause more problems when given to someone that may not really need them at all.
The doctor did not do anything about this so I gradually weened him off of the zoloft within 3 months. I new by doing my own research, even though I paid a psychiatrist, that he needed to be weened off very slowly or the outcome could be traumatic.
Well, he was 7 when he went off of the zoloft and finally by the age of 10 he finally is just about back to normal. He still has a couple tics.
When I ended up telling the dr. at our next appt. she was very upset that I had done this. She said that I could have really harmed my child. I told her that this med was harming him and that you did nothing about it so we, mother and father, did what was best for OUR child. She finally realized this at the next session and since that episode, she has been a wonderful psychiatrist for my son. If fact he no longer has the OCD diagnosis. She removed that from his records.
I hope that this helps you and others in understanding that some of these meds cause more problems when given to someone that may not really need them at all.
I doubt the doctor would offer a different response. You could try with specifics (I know you did this before). Perhaps mention how important it is for you. Perhaps ask for ways you can find the information you're seeking.
What about the bodies whom you report adverse drug events too?
A poisons center??
It can be a harsh way to learn but sometimes we do only through experiencing the consequences of our mistakes.
There was a quote I use to like, something about giving the test first, the lesson after-wards.
I'm surprised you wouldn't ban paxil.
I was threatened with ect and I would have that banned. I think I would need more information first though. And I would need to see it work. Because of its potential to be abused, and because of its adverse effects, I would have it banned. At least until there were stronger laws around it.
You could find out by trialling it again.
I thought you'd managed to achieve a lot with your debilitating symptoms.
Do you think I could be just a little bit right? (Can't blame me for trying).
I can't understand why you would do this to yourself when you could be addressing the issues you do have right now.
Why continue to be anxious and depressed when you could treat them now?
Dr Gould has this thing about reality. He suggests starting and ending with reality as the basis for decision making.
If you were to start with the symptoms you're experiencing now ...
This is just a boring aside but I was told I needed radiation therapy for cancer. I'm not thrilled with the idea and to be honest I can't be bothered with the whole process. But, ... if I start and end with reality. The reality is I have symptoms and I am at risk. The end reality is that if I don't have treatment I could potentially die.
All this other miscellaneous stuff comes up, like: I'm anxious, I don't like people touching me, I'm not comfortable with my body or these interventions, I don't want to have to maintain a weight for five weeks that I'm not comfortable with, I can't see anything so how do I trust I need treatment, I'm tired, I'm depressed, how can I make a decision, my life ***** why not not treat it, treatment will interfere with and affect goals I've set. Just on and on, no resolution, just procrastination and more stress.
The reality is that things can get much worse for me so I rang the oncologist this morning and she was going to book me in for scans and simulation next week.
I just don't get your approach. You're smart so why not treat the anxiety, depression, panic and phobias? These would be amenable to most treatments.
J
What about the bodies whom you report adverse drug events too?
A poisons center??
It can be a harsh way to learn but sometimes we do only through experiencing the consequences of our mistakes.
There was a quote I use to like, something about giving the test first, the lesson after-wards.
I'm surprised you wouldn't ban paxil.
I was threatened with ect and I would have that banned. I think I would need more information first though. And I would need to see it work. Because of its potential to be abused, and because of its adverse effects, I would have it banned. At least until there were stronger laws around it.
You could find out by trialling it again.
I thought you'd managed to achieve a lot with your debilitating symptoms.
Do you think I could be just a little bit right? (Can't blame me for trying).
I can't understand why you would do this to yourself when you could be addressing the issues you do have right now.
Why continue to be anxious and depressed when you could treat them now?
Dr Gould has this thing about reality. He suggests starting and ending with reality as the basis for decision making.
If you were to start with the symptoms you're experiencing now ...
This is just a boring aside but I was told I needed radiation therapy for cancer. I'm not thrilled with the idea and to be honest I can't be bothered with the whole process. But, ... if I start and end with reality. The reality is I have symptoms and I am at risk. The end reality is that if I don't have treatment I could potentially die.
All this other miscellaneous stuff comes up, like: I'm anxious, I don't like people touching me, I'm not comfortable with my body or these interventions, I don't want to have to maintain a weight for five weeks that I'm not comfortable with, I can't see anything so how do I trust I need treatment, I'm tired, I'm depressed, how can I make a decision, my life ***** why not not treat it, treatment will interfere with and affect goals I've set. Just on and on, no resolution, just procrastination and more stress.
The reality is that things can get much worse for me so I rang the oncologist this morning and she was going to book me in for scans and simulation next week.
I just don't get your approach. You're smart so why not treat the anxiety, depression, panic and phobias? These would be amenable to most treatments.
J
I did try what you suggest, but had no success. My doctors are in a practice connected with a medical school, but claimed not to be able to find anyone. Calls to medical schools in the area went unheeded. I did get a reference from my primary care physician through a professor, but the psychiatrist he sent me to couldn't help -- had no expertise in the area after saying he did. He did give me the most thorough diagnosis and listening I've ever had! But he had nothing to add but describing what I already knew I was going through. And I contacted GlaxoSmithKline, but they refused to help -- said they could only speak to professionals, but they refused to speak to them, too. They've been sued so many times, they don't want to reveal their research because the only time someone did (a psychiatrist in England during the initial lawsuit) it turned out they knew all about this but didn't tell anyone. I'm afraid I've been flailing about, and hoped I'd get a response here but same old same old. Maybe I'll try to question him again, but my guess is he doesn't want anything to do with it on my terms -- I've already done everything he suggested, with befuddled practitioners as a result. Somebody's got to suffer the terrible consequences of these drugs, whether it's the few who die of liver damage or kidney damage or the thousands upon thousands who've died from simple aspirin. It's the unfortunate way we learn. First we kill animals, then we kill people, because we just don't really know what these drugs will do in long-term use. We find out after a few years. Yet I wouldn't ban Paxil -- it still is probably the best drug for some people whatever the costs, maybe even for me. I just can't seem to find out. Appreciate your and anybody else's help on how to find out such things -- my initiative was destroyed with the incredible anxiety and depression that has followed discontinuation of Paxil. And keep writing! Nothing you say is malicious, I just didn't agree. No biggie about that!
I did try what you suggest, but had no success. My doctors are in a practice connected with a medical school, but claimed not to be able to find anyone. Calls to medical schools in the area went unheeded. I did get a reference from my primary care physician through a professor, but the psychiatrist he sent me to couldn't help -- had no expertise in the area after saying he did. He did give me the most thorough diagnosis and listening I've ever had! But he had nothing to add but describing what I already knew I was going through. And I contacted GlaxoSmithKline, but they refused to help -- said they could only speak to professionals, but they refused to speak to them, too. They've been sued so many times, they don't want to reveal their research because the only time someone did (a psychiatrist in England during the initial lawsuit) it turned out they knew all about this but didn't tell anyone. I'm afraid I've been flailing about, and hoped I'd get a response here but same old same old. Maybe I'll try to question him again, but my guess is he doesn't want anything to do with it on my terms -- I've already done everything he suggested, with befuddled practitioners as a result. Somebody's got to suffer the terrible consequences of these drugs, whether it's the few who die of liver damage or kidney damage or the thousands upon thousands who've died from simple aspirin. It's the unfortunate way we learn. First we kill animals, then we kill people, because we just don't really know what these drugs will do in long-term use. We find out after a few years. Yet I wouldn't ban Paxil -- it still is probably the best drug for some people whatever the costs, maybe even for me. I just can't seem to find out. Appreciate your and anybody else's help on how to find out such things -- my initiative was destroyed with the incredible anxiety and depression that has followed discontinuation of Paxil. And keep writing! Nothing you say is malicious, I just didn't agree. No biggie about that!
Thank you!
I was wondering that if I was abusing the forum by posting about myself how could I post at all. I was a little afraid you would come back and say you should do a, b and c. That would have been fine but ultimately that is not who I am.
This and other forums are a lifeline for me and I am very dependent on them.
I do hear what you're saying. I think recovery will be a journey, an adventure almost, for you.
I believe Dr Gould did answer your question. I too am an independent thinker (when I can think) and I believe I would confront or challenge him if I disagreed with something he wrote. I don't feel like just another sheep. Or blind man.
It sounds like you want an expert in paxil withdrawal. You've tried several psychiatrists. What about psychologists studying the side-effects of this drug? You need to go back to the grass roots almost. Perhaps look for places where the drug was trialled. Once there then you can discern the appropriate person to talk too.
Do you have a copy of the information that came with the medication? This usually has details on it. Maybe the manufacturer could direct you to someone.
Perhaps you could start at the top with the drug company and work backwards.
It seems like starting at the bottom will be too time-consuming and futile. If you have the confidence and are well enough try starting at the top.
For me, if I were wanting this information, I would approach someone from one of our two medical schools. (Psychology, psychiatry, research departments).
I don't know if a physicians desk reference would have anything in it.
What about the people who published the articles on the side-effects??
They are heaps of different places you could try looking.
I hope I'm not doing you a disservice by encouraging you. :)
J
I was wondering that if I was abusing the forum by posting about myself how could I post at all. I was a little afraid you would come back and say you should do a, b and c. That would have been fine but ultimately that is not who I am.
This and other forums are a lifeline for me and I am very dependent on them.
I do hear what you're saying. I think recovery will be a journey, an adventure almost, for you.
I believe Dr Gould did answer your question. I too am an independent thinker (when I can think) and I believe I would confront or challenge him if I disagreed with something he wrote. I don't feel like just another sheep. Or blind man.
It sounds like you want an expert in paxil withdrawal. You've tried several psychiatrists. What about psychologists studying the side-effects of this drug? You need to go back to the grass roots almost. Perhaps look for places where the drug was trialled. Once there then you can discern the appropriate person to talk too.
Do you have a copy of the information that came with the medication? This usually has details on it. Maybe the manufacturer could direct you to someone.
Perhaps you could start at the top with the drug company and work backwards.
It seems like starting at the bottom will be too time-consuming and futile. If you have the confidence and are well enough try starting at the top.
For me, if I were wanting this information, I would approach someone from one of our two medical schools. (Psychology, psychiatry, research departments).
I don't know if a physicians desk reference would have anything in it.
What about the people who published the articles on the side-effects??
They are heaps of different places you could try looking.
I hope I'm not doing you a disservice by encouraging you. :)
J
Just keep on being you. My reaction, or anyone else's, should help educate us all, but should never determine who we are or whether we like ourselves. I'm not angry at you for sharing what you think, I'm just open about dialogue -- I will answer if I think someone has misunderstood me. I'm not a very mainstream thinker -- maybe because I'm a writer, maybe just because I am who I am. You just be who you are, and if someone disagrees, as I did, that's a beginning of the conversation, not the end. I'm obviously pretty frustrated after going through this for so long and not being able to get professionals like Dr. Gould to take me seriously, so when I got so much flack from fellow sufferers, it took me back and I felt it necessary to respond. It is not necessary for you to agree with me or anyone else because of that. I don't think you should judge yourself, but that is the nature of the disease or whatever it is we have, we do judge ourselves and put a lot of pressure on ourselves. Personally, I like a good discussion, and people will disagree, but that doesn't define us. It just expresses a piece of us.
I'm probably a bit older than most who use these boards -- I never have before. I'm nearly 56, and have lived with this for a long time. I know how quickly and radically I changed, and the only thing different in my life was going off Paxil. I also read thousands of other accounts on various message boards, though frankly it makes me nervous in my current state to read them. I had to do this because my health plan psychiatrist claimed ignorance and left me hanging and I didn't know what was happening to me until it was too late to follow the recommended protocols. Now I'm completely lost in this weird world of constant anxiety, memory loss, loss of my sense of humor, disorientation, devastating depression, none of which I had until I went off Paxil, ever. I did have intermittent depression, always triggered by a bad break-up and nothing else and I haven't had one for a long time, in fact I'm married to a woman I've been with for thirteen years, and the panic attacks, which is the ailment that brought me to Paxil because therapy hadn't worked (it actually turns out to have a pretty low success rate, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying). It's also frustrating because most of the research is on depression, not panic, with these meds. Anyway, that's how I know it was the Paxil and not some horrible event. No such event occurred, and the deterioration to new states of being happened soon after going off the Paxil. I think I'm an extreme and rare case, so I wouldn't generalize it, I'd just like to find someone who knows where to go from here. Dr. Gould punted instead of answering my question, so I have to look elsewhere. But don't let me or anyone else define you or tell you what to say; we both listened to one another and grew a little bit from it but a frank exchange doesn't make anyone a bad person or any other kind of person except a courageous one willing to get out there and express an opinion. Be good to yourself.
I'm probably a bit older than most who use these boards -- I never have before. I'm nearly 56, and have lived with this for a long time. I know how quickly and radically I changed, and the only thing different in my life was going off Paxil. I also read thousands of other accounts on various message boards, though frankly it makes me nervous in my current state to read them. I had to do this because my health plan psychiatrist claimed ignorance and left me hanging and I didn't know what was happening to me until it was too late to follow the recommended protocols. Now I'm completely lost in this weird world of constant anxiety, memory loss, loss of my sense of humor, disorientation, devastating depression, none of which I had until I went off Paxil, ever. I did have intermittent depression, always triggered by a bad break-up and nothing else and I haven't had one for a long time, in fact I'm married to a woman I've been with for thirteen years, and the panic attacks, which is the ailment that brought me to Paxil because therapy hadn't worked (it actually turns out to have a pretty low success rate, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying). It's also frustrating because most of the research is on depression, not panic, with these meds. Anyway, that's how I know it was the Paxil and not some horrible event. No such event occurred, and the deterioration to new states of being happened soon after going off the Paxil. I think I'm an extreme and rare case, so I wouldn't generalize it, I'd just like to find someone who knows where to go from here. Dr. Gould punted instead of answering my question, so I have to look elsewhere. But don't let me or anyone else define you or tell you what to say; we both listened to one another and grew a little bit from it but a frank exchange doesn't make anyone a bad person or any other kind of person except a courageous one willing to get out there and express an opinion. Be good to yourself.
This is not about paxil but about your comments concerning myself.
I'd be interested to hear your feedback.
I was thinking about this a little, earlier. I actually feel really insecure about posting and your comments seem to resonate with some concerns I've had. At times I feel my posts may come across as me being narcissistic and/ or controlling.
These are not things I set out to do but that may occur due to my own mh issues.
I feel I write lots and perhaps this is why I also inject my own thoughts, feelings and experiences into posts and that is because I lack a sense of self and I am ignorant about personal boundaries and limits.
Perhaps while answering people's posts I am trying to find myself.
Perhaps by over-identifying with the parts that seem familiar to me I am neglecting other important aspects. I don't think I dismiss all aspects out of hand though. I think I hear them, or at least I try too. I feel I can see things from several perspectives but I also know I miss an awful lot due to my limited life experiences.
Perhaps I am playing it safe by sticking to what I know based on my own experiences.
While I sometimes find it difficult hearing personal criticisms, and I can sometimes perceive this as a personal attack, I really appreciate your comments.
I haven't been in therapy for five months and have missed approximately 60 therapy sessions (the number of sessions I would have had if in therapy) and have missed the challenges to understand myself better and to change my cognition's and behaviors.
Do you have any advice or suggestions on how I may better understand you or others and how I could communicate this?
Do I need to be more humble and acknowledge I don't know, and therefore can't understand, a person's story? A post is like a single photograph. It can convey a lot but is also very limited. Do I come across as being that arrogant and egotistical that I think I know everything? I am actually incredibly insecure about most things. Even my sense of self-worth and right to life. Perhaps this is a defense I use to protect myself. Control to defend against vulnerability.
Do I need to not talk about myself? Do you think this invalidates the person I am responding too? It is never my intention to belittle or judge anyone or their experience.
I may have asked the wrong questions but I'm happy to listen to any thoughts or feelings you may have. That doesn't mean I have to like them or even change who I am.
It was never my intention to hurt you or imply I thought you were stupid. I wouldn't be asking for your advice if I didn't respect you.
Thank you for your honesty.
J
I'd be interested to hear your feedback.
I was thinking about this a little, earlier. I actually feel really insecure about posting and your comments seem to resonate with some concerns I've had. At times I feel my posts may come across as me being narcissistic and/ or controlling.
These are not things I set out to do but that may occur due to my own mh issues.
I feel I write lots and perhaps this is why I also inject my own thoughts, feelings and experiences into posts and that is because I lack a sense of self and I am ignorant about personal boundaries and limits.
Perhaps while answering people's posts I am trying to find myself.
Perhaps by over-identifying with the parts that seem familiar to me I am neglecting other important aspects. I don't think I dismiss all aspects out of hand though. I think I hear them, or at least I try too. I feel I can see things from several perspectives but I also know I miss an awful lot due to my limited life experiences.
Perhaps I am playing it safe by sticking to what I know based on my own experiences.
While I sometimes find it difficult hearing personal criticisms, and I can sometimes perceive this as a personal attack, I really appreciate your comments.
I haven't been in therapy for five months and have missed approximately 60 therapy sessions (the number of sessions I would have had if in therapy) and have missed the challenges to understand myself better and to change my cognition's and behaviors.
Do you have any advice or suggestions on how I may better understand you or others and how I could communicate this?
Do I need to be more humble and acknowledge I don't know, and therefore can't understand, a person's story? A post is like a single photograph. It can convey a lot but is also very limited. Do I come across as being that arrogant and egotistical that I think I know everything? I am actually incredibly insecure about most things. Even my sense of self-worth and right to life. Perhaps this is a defense I use to protect myself. Control to defend against vulnerability.
Do I need to not talk about myself? Do you think this invalidates the person I am responding too? It is never my intention to belittle or judge anyone or their experience.
I may have asked the wrong questions but I'm happy to listen to any thoughts or feelings you may have. That doesn't mean I have to like them or even change who I am.
It was never my intention to hurt you or imply I thought you were stupid. I wouldn't be asking for your advice if I didn't respect you.
Thank you for your honesty.
J
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