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Very worried grandparents
Our son and daughter-in-law (she has BPD) has just announced that they are pregnant with their first child. We were supposed to be excited for them but we have been alienated from them because as she put it "you have to put the in-laws in their place. To this point their marriage has been one outburst after another. She stopped her meds cold turkey so as to get pregnant and they are acting as if this baby is the answer to all of their problems. We are acared for the baby. She in the past has left our son, has bounts of burning things in the backyard while he is at work, has cheated on him, can't hold a job, goes into crazy fits of rage, etc..etc...etc.... and the list goes on and on. We are the problem in all circumstances and we have not even been in their lives since the wedding when her mother really didn't even want us there. All of his original friends have left because of the "devil" woman wanted them out of his life. Their church's pastor actually has sided with her telling her to keep us out of their lives. Now after not even being in their lives for 4 yrs are being treated like there is something wrong with us because we are not excited about the baby. We don;t even see them and we know this baby is in serious trouble but what do we do? Is there anything that can be done? Is the baby safe in this situation?
Hi, folks,
A number of posts have been removed due to being off-topic and/or disrespectful. It appears that this discussion has run its course, so it's now closed.
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A number of posts have been removed due to being off-topic and/or disrespectful. It appears that this discussion has run its course, so it's now closed.
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I resent the comment about it always being about us.
People with bpd have a hard time self-soothing or feeling like they deserve anything. Baby-sitting for her would be a privilege for her and not something that she would necessarily be deserving of. Doesn't everybody deserve their own time and space though? Are we so worthless that we have to deserve something are we of so little value that we have to earn everything?
Your comments sound manipulative and anything but genuine or honest. I would feel angry if someone spoke them to me.
Maybe what you're interpreting as selfishness, etc is an individual with bpd trying to survive. In a survival situation it does primarily become about the individual. I think it's selfish of others not to see that we have needs too or to label these needs as wants, etc.
People with bpd can mis-interpret situations. These interpretations are based on our own experiences and it is probably fair, although hurtful to us, to say that we perceive things differently.
I think it is useful to clarify events so there is no misunderstanding.
People with bpd can be extremely sensitive and we tend to pick up many cues that others don't. Many say that this is due to our own experiences of trauma.
bpd seems to be more environmental than genetics. Your grand-daughter has inherited her difficulties from your son as well.
And so the cycle continues. Don't judge your grand-daughter like you do your ex-DIL. People with bpd are often just the victims. It is not our fault we have this disorder, it is not something we chose.
People with bpd have a hard time self-soothing or feeling like they deserve anything. Baby-sitting for her would be a privilege for her and not something that she would necessarily be deserving of. Doesn't everybody deserve their own time and space though? Are we so worthless that we have to deserve something are we of so little value that we have to earn everything?
Your comments sound manipulative and anything but genuine or honest. I would feel angry if someone spoke them to me.
Maybe what you're interpreting as selfishness, etc is an individual with bpd trying to survive. In a survival situation it does primarily become about the individual. I think it's selfish of others not to see that we have needs too or to label these needs as wants, etc.
People with bpd can mis-interpret situations. These interpretations are based on our own experiences and it is probably fair, although hurtful to us, to say that we perceive things differently.
I think it is useful to clarify events so there is no misunderstanding.
People with bpd can be extremely sensitive and we tend to pick up many cues that others don't. Many say that this is due to our own experiences of trauma.
bpd seems to be more environmental than genetics. Your grand-daughter has inherited her difficulties from your son as well.
And so the cycle continues. Don't judge your grand-daughter like you do your ex-DIL. People with bpd are often just the victims. It is not our fault we have this disorder, it is not something we chose.
No i have never lost my temper and hurt my children i have BPD but i'm not evil or bad i love my children they are who i live for and they are the reason i cope, my mother was emotionally abusive and didn't have BPD so what was her excuse. I can understand you are worried and wish i could be more help but everyone has their own personality as well as BPD its not the reason for everything.
t got to be too bizzare and everyone broke from her system and celebrated when they wanted and that is when it really got bad and there was total seperation of the family. This has split our family. -- your words
I totally get this - lived it. One thing that you might be able to do is after the new baby arrives (and your DIL realizes that the task of caring for a baby is far greater than she ever expected) is to offer to help babysit whenever she feels she needs some time to herself. After all, everyone needs to time shop or get one's hair done or go to the gym, etc. Never comment on anything other than "she deserves" this time. With BPD's - it's always about "them" - very little empathy, compassion or conscience. We found it best if my husband made the offer to our son - our ex-DIL always read something into my words/motives that was not there.
I know you can contact me privately through this site (but I forget how). Are you on any other sites on the internet re BPD? Our DIL left our son and two children two years ago after almost 15 years of marriage; things are getting better but not great. She sees her children once a month or so - her choice. Unfortunately, it appears that our granddaugher might also have inherited this disorder from her mother (the grandson appears fine). So, the trauma continues ...
I totally get this - lived it. One thing that you might be able to do is after the new baby arrives (and your DIL realizes that the task of caring for a baby is far greater than she ever expected) is to offer to help babysit whenever she feels she needs some time to herself. After all, everyone needs to time shop or get one's hair done or go to the gym, etc. Never comment on anything other than "she deserves" this time. With BPD's - it's always about "them" - very little empathy, compassion or conscience. We found it best if my husband made the offer to our son - our ex-DIL always read something into my words/motives that was not there.
I know you can contact me privately through this site (but I forget how). Are you on any other sites on the internet re BPD? Our DIL left our son and two children two years ago after almost 15 years of marriage; things are getting better but not great. She sees her children once a month or so - her choice. Unfortunately, it appears that our granddaugher might also have inherited this disorder from her mother (the grandson appears fine). So, the trauma continues ...
You definitely understand our situation because you lived it. Thank you for sharing with us from your experiences. Our son pushed us away at the advice of their pastor whom sees nothing wrong because our DIL turns it off when it fits her desires. At their church she is everything, the sound person, the childrens ministry leader, the organizer that fits all needs. Problem is she makes silly decisions like spray painting her entire body silver (face too) for a child's activity only to realize it doesn't come off. Like you said we tried to talk about it with them and figure out exactly where we fit and she swung from gentleness to coming off the floor in total rage and was going to attack me and he actually yelled to stop the attack. We know the baby is in danger and we can only pray that our son wakes up in time to prevent permanant injury to the baby. The problem lies in that she cannot hold a job outside of the home so she began working from the home and she will be alone with that child and being alone has been when all of the bizzare stuff happens. (the spray painting, the burning, etc) After she left him when she came back he no longer had a backbone, she and her mother was now in charge so talking to him is out entirely unfortunately) She has actually diagnosed him as having mental illness believe it or not and he beleives it, which has placed her in the drivers seat as the leader of their family. She then tried to control our family and actually set up a calendar showing when we could celebrate our very own birthdays and all other holidays too. It got to be too bizzare and everyone broke from her system and celebrated when they wanted and that is when it really got bad and there was total seperation of the family. This has split our family....and now a baby is coming into this environment.......oh good. Thank you.
It all seems a bit strange and cult-like to me. Pushing people away, etc is a form of control. Control can help one to better manage ones internal world. Because our internal worlds can be so messed up, controlling our external world or environment can bring with it a sense of control. It is one way to feel less vulnerable and threatened. While it keeps a person emotionally safe in the short-term, long-term it can be damaging and lead to increased pathology.
The pastor is both protecting them and undermining them at the same time. Running away from issues is rarely the answer.
I expect while having to pay for the meal was a big shock you probably felt that it was worthwhile just to have that limited contact.
Lack of sex could indicate a lack of intimacy and point to problems with attachments, etc. Some people with bpd find it difficult to be intimate with others while others with bpd go to the other extreme.
I would probably focus more on how she has affected your family and what that means to you. I think that your best avenue to access that family is through your son. A discussion with him could be helpful to you to clarify where you stand, etc.
The pastor is both protecting them and undermining them at the same time. Running away from issues is rarely the answer.
I expect while having to pay for the meal was a big shock you probably felt that it was worthwhile just to have that limited contact.
Lack of sex could indicate a lack of intimacy and point to problems with attachments, etc. Some people with bpd find it difficult to be intimate with others while others with bpd go to the other extreme.
I would probably focus more on how she has affected your family and what that means to you. I think that your best avenue to access that family is through your son. A discussion with him could be helpful to you to clarify where you stand, etc.
worriedgrandparents3 - You more or less described what happened to my husband and to me. We were accused of things we did not do, say or even think. There was no recourse except to get on with our lives. You cannot reason with someone who can not reason. You might wish to send the pastor a book "Stop Wallking on Eggshells" but then, he might not "clue in". Unless you have lived this nightmare, it is very difficult (almost impossible) to grasp the extent of the pain and hurt caused by someone with this mental health illness. You might also wish to look up the term "Stockholm Syndrome" which I susepct might be descriptive of your son today. But do rest assured, some day the truth will come out - it always does (maybe not even in your lifetime - but it will come out).
When the grandchildren came, our DIL became impossible and abusive. There is nothing you can do but hope and pray your son will come to the rescue of this child. Luckily, ours did - finally. As we often say - we did not cause this, we cannot control this, we cannot cure this. At this point, all you can do is try to be as healthy (both physically and mentally) as you can be in case you are asked to intervene in the future. But, as I said before, the ball is in your son's court - let's hope he is able to "man up" and protect his child. So sorry ....
When the grandchildren came, our DIL became impossible and abusive. There is nothing you can do but hope and pray your son will come to the rescue of this child. Luckily, ours did - finally. As we often say - we did not cause this, we cannot control this, we cannot cure this. At this point, all you can do is try to be as healthy (both physically and mentally) as you can be in case you are asked to intervene in the future. But, as I said before, the ball is in your son's court - let's hope he is able to "man up" and protect his child. So sorry ....
Hi
As for the nickname "devil woman" , that is a name given to her by my sons ex friends and their wives after my daughter-in-law was rude to them and told them off, chasing them away. She has chased away everyone from his life including family and has burned everything from his past including mementos that he loved. She got in trouble for burning Clorox bottles becaus the smoke was neat to watch is it filled the sky with black smoke. Being you have this illness and you have children have you ever messed up and hurt your children in a fit of rage and then was sorry for it later. Is a shaken baby something that could happen or does the motherly instinct over rule the illness?
As for the nickname "devil woman" , that is a name given to her by my sons ex friends and their wives after my daughter-in-law was rude to them and told them off, chasing them away. She has chased away everyone from his life including family and has burned everything from his past including mementos that he loved. She got in trouble for burning Clorox bottles becaus the smoke was neat to watch is it filled the sky with black smoke. Being you have this illness and you have children have you ever messed up and hurt your children in a fit of rage and then was sorry for it later. Is a shaken baby something that could happen or does the motherly instinct over rule the illness?
No we have not talked with our son. The pastor of his church instructed him to drop us as parrents so there has been no communication. We have never been a problem for them at all. We have always given them their space. We were invited out to supper of which I was to pay and we mistakenly thought it meant going over to their house for birthday cake. We were playing a board game and every one was having fun for a change and it came to 10:00. She saw we were leaving and grabbed that opportunity to kick us out in a very nasty way, by saying "I don't want to be rude but would you people just get out !!! Later she said she wanted sex on his birthday and didn't know how to tell us to leave. (all a lie because it is known they don't have sex, even on their wedding night they didn't and she saw we were leaving and wanted to make a scene obviously "putting us in our places") This is the way it has been so not understanding any of this have given them much space. Our son has been "beaten into submission" and has totally lost any common sense so we are worried for the new baby that is coming in April. This appears to be a disaster in the making and we are worried,
I have six children and have BPD my children have never been at risk, i can't imagine that calling her the devil woman will make her want you in her or the childs lives. If she was that bad then why would your son stay with her? From my expereince my partners family never liked me because i often come across as cold and distant so they talked about me said i was bad to their son and controlling, i never was, as a result their son stood by me and they don't see their grandchildren obviously i get the blame but it was their behaviour that made things this way. What i'm saying is that if you want to be part of the childs life that way you can see if the child is at risk or not you need to be more understanding of your daughter and law and don't be so quick as to judge her or label her or blame her for everything. As Jaquta said she would probably need extra help and support throughout the pregnancy and if she was that bad the mental health team would have her committed anyway.
BPD is an illness and I don't think those with bpd need others judging it or labelling it.
I think, as with any relationship, that there should be boundaries. I think that there needs to be a balance though. I think that your daughter-in-law has perhaps been rather extreme with these. People with bpd often view things as black and white so I expect she has had trouble integrating the two (accepting that they can have a separate life with you being part of it).
Some meds can cause birth defects so stopping the medication sounds as though it was an informed decision. She will need to be monitored closely though for signs of relapse, etc.
Some infants help to strengthen relationships while some just reinforce the difficulties being faced.
It wouldn't hurt to express your true feelings and explain where they come from.
If you have serious concerns about the safety of your son, daughter-in-law or unborn child you can take these to the police or the hospital. If there were legetimate concerns the mother can be comitted under the mental health act. Discussing your concerns with your own doctor may also help and may provide some guidance and support.
Have you had an opportunity to speak to your son alone? What does he say? What are his feelings? Do you trust him enough to give appropriate intervention if necessary?
For the mother I would encourage her to attend psychotherapy and other support groups throughout her pregnancy.
The baby sounds as though it should be OK but one would need more inforamtion about her previous behaviour, etc to be able to make a decent risk assessment. Her treatment team should be doing this.
Someone I knew with mild bpd tried to kill her unborn baby. It's a tough call and hard to know. It would be good if your son could acknowledge your fears and reassure you.
You could always ring the hospital and ask for advice.
I think, as with any relationship, that there should be boundaries. I think that there needs to be a balance though. I think that your daughter-in-law has perhaps been rather extreme with these. People with bpd often view things as black and white so I expect she has had trouble integrating the two (accepting that they can have a separate life with you being part of it).
Some meds can cause birth defects so stopping the medication sounds as though it was an informed decision. She will need to be monitored closely though for signs of relapse, etc.
Some infants help to strengthen relationships while some just reinforce the difficulties being faced.
It wouldn't hurt to express your true feelings and explain where they come from.
If you have serious concerns about the safety of your son, daughter-in-law or unborn child you can take these to the police or the hospital. If there were legetimate concerns the mother can be comitted under the mental health act. Discussing your concerns with your own doctor may also help and may provide some guidance and support.
Have you had an opportunity to speak to your son alone? What does he say? What are his feelings? Do you trust him enough to give appropriate intervention if necessary?
For the mother I would encourage her to attend psychotherapy and other support groups throughout her pregnancy.
The baby sounds as though it should be OK but one would need more inforamtion about her previous behaviour, etc to be able to make a decent risk assessment. Her treatment team should be doing this.
Someone I knew with mild bpd tried to kill her unborn baby. It's a tough call and hard to know. It would be good if your son could acknowledge your fears and reassure you.
You could always ring the hospital and ask for advice.
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