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4th stage renal failure in my dog

I have a nine year old lab  "Sandy Grace".  She is in fourth stage renal failure-Of course she has seen her regular vet for fluids-ultra sound revealed she has one kidney which is failing.   Creatine was 13-subs at home-now using hollistic and homepatic treatment.  Recently more bad days than good.    I am giving her ice chips which seem to work better for her than lapping.  Pedialyte ice is also better.  She throws up until she staggers and falls-I am continuously trying to hydrate her and giving her baby food-At times, she is able to keep it down,  other times the vomiting is horrible.  She continues to try for us, and we are fighting so hard for her-LIke others, I tuck her in at night (she sleeps on the loveseat with her "bankie" covering her).  I am sleeping in the den with her so I can give her support throughout the night.  Neither of us are getting much sleep.  I have her spoiled now with hand feeding other than her baby food, and I hold her plate while she licks it up.  I am using a recipe of egg yellow / whites, honey, and whole yogurt with a touch of dry powdered milk.  This works sometimes.  Sandy Grace is not ready to leave us-she continues to try-we try for her twenty-four hours a day.  Is there any over the counter medication that I can give her that will help with her vomiting?  We love her so much and she loves us so much-my husband and I feel like we will know when she is ready to go.  We went to grocery store yesterday to  buy more food supplies and liquids for her, when we got home, there she was looking out the window-barking for us to hurry and come inside-you open the door and there she is  - -so excited, still wagging her tail for us.  What can we do, this is our baby, she is so, so sweet-I know her days are numbered, but she is just not ready to leave. Help.    Aggieone
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Avatar universal
Hi, my Labrador is 9 years old and is suffering from 4th stage renal failure. We are so broke. He does not take anything, even water he vommits. Plz plz help us. He is in India with my brother. I want him to stay with us, plz any suggestions... His BUN is 152.3mg/d and creatinine is 10.13mg/d. Anything he eats, he vommits.
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Avatar universal
Is anyone here to help? I'm desperate for questions to be answered / my beloved Poppy died on Friday. We had to let her go. We knew nothing till 2 weeks ago other than loss of appetite and vomiting and now she is gone. Can anyone talk?
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Avatar universal
my dog has a high SMDA... no other bad #s. Still seems healthy though drinks a bit much. He is my third dog so I have experienced dog death before but I am so not-looking-forward  to seeing him decline :( He has been, BTW, a very healthy active dog and still is, but I am not sure that this "early knowledge" is that great. Vet says no reason for low protein food and just give him more omega 3s.
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Avatar universal
Hi Tony,
You seem to be very knowledgeable about kidney failure in dogs.  Are you a vet?  Either way, I have been struggling with the same issues.  My 13 year long hair mini doxie was diagnosed a year ago August with kidney failure.  We took her to emergency where they did an ultrasound and bloodwork and determined the kidney failure.  She was treated with fluids, antibiotics, etc.  When we brought her home we did they iv fluids for a while.  She seemed to get better along with kidney food.  In June of this year, we moved.  Both dogs struggled with the change (they are 12 and 13).  I noticed a decline with Pepper the 13 year since the move.  We've treated with fluids.  Her interest in food has declined along with her energy.  I have made 2 appointments to put her down and did not follow through.  I'm torn between letting it happen naturally and not wanting to put her through that.  Our vet has been very cooperative and said not to make an appointment, just come in when your ready.  I just look in her eyes and wait for the sign.  Either I'm blinded by love or she is not giving it to me.  She's having urinary accidents around the house and loose stools outside.  I'm giving her whatever she wants to eat, and now she's even turning that away.  If I could just wrap my head around putting her down with those eyes looking at me, it would be a lot easier.  Obviously, from all these posts, it sounds like there is never the "right" time.  I keep asking her to let me know, and I'm just not getting the sign.  I just don't want to see her suffer.
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Avatar universal
Hi Tony,
You seem to be very knowledgeable about kidney failure in dogs.  Are you a vet?  Either way, I have been struggling with the same issues.  My 13 year long hair mini doxie was diagnosed a year ago August with kidney failure.  We took her to emergency where they did an ultrasound and bloodwork and determined the kidney failure.  She was treated with fluids, antibiotics, etc.  When we brought her home we did they iv fluids for a while.  She seemed to get better along with kidney food.  In June of this year, we moved.  Both dogs struggled with the change (they are 12 and 13).  I noticed a decline with Pepper the 13 year since the move.  We've treated with fluids.  Her interest in food has declined along with her energy.  I have made 2 appointments to put her down and did not follow through.  I'm torn between letting it happen naturally and not wanting to put her through that.  Our vet has been very cooperative and said not to make an appointment, just come in when your ready.  I just look in her eyes and wait for the sign.  Either I'm blinded by love or she is not giving it to me.  She's having urinary accidents around the house and loose stools outside.  I'm giving her whatever she wants to eat, and now she's even turning that away.  If I could just wrap my head around putting her down with those eyes looking at me, it would be a lot easier.  Obviously, from all these posts, it sounds like there is never the "right" time.  I keep asking her to let me know, and I'm just not getting the sign.  I just don't want to see her suffer.
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1916673 tn?1420233270
Hi. So sorry. Is she still with you? If yes, then please can you post her latest blood test results. There may be something I can advise to help, although at 17, time is probably not on her side.

Tony
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Avatar universal
This is exactly what I am going through now.  I am sat here with my baby girl (age 17) and I can't let her go. We have the vets tomorrow and my husband wants us to let her go but I can't.  My kids have also begged me not to.  She's struggling and the legs are starting to go but she's not as bad as some of the other dogs mentioned on here. So so hard.
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1916673 tn?1420233270
Hi. Okay. They still need  do a blood pressure check. 93% of all kidney failure dogs have high blood pressure - and that seriously compromises the kidneys and causes the kidney disease to worsen very quickly.

It may take a few days for the IV fluids to "kick in", so get back after your vet has completed the course and let me know how things are. Importantly, new blood level checks should be taken to assess whether IVs are doing anything before the treatment is complete.

It may also be worth having renal scan undertaken if your vet can do it, as this will tell you and the vet how much organ tissue remains. If less than 20%, then any treatment is pointless as your dog will not be able to maintain any function after IV fluids. If more than 20%, there's a chance treatment and management of diet will have a more positive outcome.

Tony
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My labrador retriever has renal failure and a high level of creatinine. I want to know what SQ fluids should I give him, one vet tells me dextrose, other vet Hartmann, and ringer. Please help me I'm desperate because my dog is weak.
Hi. Much depends on the blood results. If you have them, post them and I can advise better. As a general rule, Lactated Ringers are the better fluids for all kidney failure dogs, because the fluids are better balanced with minerals and electrolytes that mimic the canine body. Dextrose, Hartman, sodium and others are all loaded with minerals of specific types and they can be useful, but only when the blood results show a deficiency of the mineral and/or electrolyte concerned.

Is this acute or chronic renal failure? How old is your dog? Does he have other health conditions? When was he diagnosed? Is he on any medications? Do you know the stage of renal failure? What are you feeding him? What symptoms persist?

Tony
Avatar universal
I've just got back from my usual vet, and they have sent him home with me as he looks completely healthy and still weighs the same as 8 months ago.
I have to go back in the morning so he can get more blood tests, and a urinalysis done. I also have some of the Royal Canin Renal food to pick up to begin a better diet for him.
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Avatar universal
Thanks for helping Tony,
I have just got my dog from back from the emergency vet centre, where he spent 32 hours on the IV drip, although his creatinine levels did fluctuate, they are still at 452 umol/L. I have been advised to take my dog to my local vet so he can be placed on the IV again, and also to discuss whether it will have any positive effects as it has been unsuccessful so far.
They did not take a blood pressure reading, although dueing initial obs they stated that his HR and pulses were good. And they dis not run a urinalysis as he would not let then catch him urinating.
The blood tests also revealed that he had a low concentratikn of platelets in his blood (4-5 per field) and so suggests that something is going on with his liver also.
They gave him a course of anti-biotics in case their was an infection but there has been no response.
And i have obtained copies of all four blood test results.
I will be taking him to my local vet to see whether they can cater for his needs as the previous vet was only an emergency clinic, hence why the treatment so far has cost so much.


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Avatar universal
Can anyone please offer some advice.
My 7 year old staffordshire bull terrier was diagnosed with chronic kidney failure late last night and had a reading of creatinine reading of 460.
He was placed on an IV drip through the nigt and that reading has omly dropped to 440. The vet has advised that he may need another night on the drip.

Up until now my dog has been completely fine, he is in great shape, and had a healthy appetitie. The only symptom which caused us to take him the vet was that he suddenly Wet  himself and was breathing very deeply.
The vet when taking his obs said he was completely healthy and they only took a blood test because we was adamant that they run some tests to see what exactly caused it.
For the one night of treatment it has already set us back £800 and it is unlikely we can afford much more for his treatment.
Is it advised that we leave him in the vet to stay on an IV drip? Or would it be better that we spend what time we have left with him at home?
Like i said he was of completely normal health, and showing his usual high energy levels.
I've read online that at stage 4 they do not have much time left, but how long is that? Epecially when he seems so healthy, and i know he will be severely distressed staying in the vet as he has never spent a night in a kennel, and will not eat unless we are present.  
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1 Comments
Hi. Ordinarily, when the blood numbers are very bad, it takes 3 or 4 days of IV fluids at the vets to get control of the disease (bringing the numbers down to a moderate rather than a high abnormal level). It is not unusual for good results to follow an initial spike of bad results with IV fluids, so you need to be patient. After the IV fluids have finished, it is important you then begin a 3 to 4 week course of SubQ fluids, which you can administer yourself at home (after a vet has taught you how to do it). This should be with Lactated Ringer solution, unless the blood results suggest another form of fluids.

The vet should also have run a urinalysis to check for culture and sensitivity (to assess if there are any urinary infections), checking also for protein loss and the specific gravity of urine. If they didn't do this, get them to do it.

The vet should also have taken a blood pressure reading. Did they do this? If not, you must get them to do it.

Once you have your dog home, you need to start a diet change regime. We can talk about that once you are able to post the test results (make sure you obtain copies).

It's impossible to say how long your dog may have, because only by assessing the blood results and your dog's reaction to the fluid therapy and diet change can anything be determined. With good management and a pro-active approach to treatment and diet, dogs can live a good quality of life for a year or more. Beyond that, it's dependent on how much kidney function remains, whether the deterioration can be stemmed and stabilised and how committed your vet is to monitor and adapt treatments.

It may help to read one of my articles (designed for first time diagnosed dogs) ... you can access it here:

http://www.infobarrel.com/My_10-Point_Plan_for_Dogs_with_Kidney_Failure

Regards

Tony
17833667 tn?1460553807
all this after .....a months of meds, daily IV and spoon feeding him. His numbers did improve for a short while, his ultra-sound showed kidney function .....nil.
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1 Comments
I am so sorry for your loss. Sometimes kidney function is so poor that battling the disease is nigh impossible. You certainly did all you could. Run free Re'Tale.

Tony
17833667 tn?1460553807
As long as the Dog is still happy. My Springer died on his 10th year due to Renal Failure. 5 Hours before he died, he was running along w/ my other dog in a preserve area board-walk and also went for a swim chasing THE Ball and jumping off some docks into the H2O.  He ran to me in the house wanting to go outside and then was hiding in the bushes. He started ( appear to )  want to vomit. He ate ( I spoon fed him ) 3 hours earlier. I knew when I saw him, he was dying and called my wife to let her know that I was making arrangements to end his life humanely. He died when I was consoling him in his favourite spot on the sloppy-hill in our side yard. my tears speak of all my emotions that  volumes of written & spoken words CANNOT DESCRIBE my passion for Re'Tale. He was a Therapy Dog that gave back to the community and loved life. He drove me .... and that is another story. Re'Tale was appropriately named. He has a story that will always be told and re-told. I will miss him and always love him.  My wife & I would only eat-out @ dog friendly places so we could take our 2 dogs ( Charm- American PitBull / Australian Cattle Dog  - Rescue from age 5 ). Ace & Home Depot's were familiar territory to them as well as customers & employees. The magnitude of all this, is, not many heart felt emotions come around in life, the kind that love brings and when no longer w/ us hurts. Memories & knowing he was happy to the end, makes it all worth while. I want to feel this again, not too soon, but again, It is what makes us human.
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1 Comments
Feeling such great empathy for your post. Our Springer is also 10, a kind and good soul and also on his last day or two with this horrible disease. It is such a cruel thief of our wonderful companions. Wishing I knew best practical steps to create his best comfort but these threads don't seem to contain that specific advice. Not ready to euthanize. His sentiments, not mine. This is the worst pergatory. What can I do?
1916673 tn?1420233270
Hi. I am very disappointed your vet did not prescribe to you how much SubQ fluids to give. The blood numbers are very high, suggesting quite late stage kidney failure. Did the vet undertake a blood pressure test? If not, that needs to be done. Did the vet ask for a urine sample so specific gravity could be checked? If not, that also needs to be done.

I would suggest 20ml fluid for every kilogram of body weight in one spot - so you could inject 200ml in one go in a 10 kilogram dog. The vet needs to prescribe the amount of fluid. If it is more than the calculation for one spot, you should move to another spot to insert the remaining amount of sub q fluid up to the actual dosage amount.

The other question I have is what type of fluid has been given? The best for kd dogs is usually Lactated Ringers, unless there is a low sodium count in the blood results, in which case saline is preferred.

Tony
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1 Comments
I agree with Tony.  SubQ fluids will help so much. I think of it as crude dialysis for my dog who can't get dialysis. The extra fluids help flush some of the toxins out that the kidney can't do anymore. My 15 y.o Shih Tzu was diagnosed with kidney failure 10 months ago.  He weighed 16 lbs at the time.  We started with 100 ml every other day.  For the last 6 months, he has been on 350 ml everyday.  His CREA has ranged from 5-14. 14 was when he was dehydrated. He was back to 6.7 yesterday. Our vet also likes to switch off between Lactated Ringers to Normosol to Sodium Chloride depending on his electrolytes (which shows up on n his bi-weekly blood test). A simple test to chc k if he's dehydrated is to pinch the loose skin on his scruff.  Pinch, lift and twist.  If the skin takes a long time to flatten out, then he's dehydrated.  If it flattens out immediately, he should be hydrated.
     Kudos that Bailey is still eating. My Riley stopped eating 5 days ago but we supplement with Ensure Plus and NutriCal so he gets liquid meals.
     As for vomitting, I found that Metoclopramide works wonders for Riley.  He has also been on Cerenia.  Best of luck BaileyGirlMom!  I know how much we love our kids!
Avatar universal
Hi Tony,

I finally have numbers for you.  We took Bailey to her doctor on 1/8/16 and they were as follows:
100 BUN
5.7 CREA
18 BUN/CREA

The doctor said that she was dehydrated and we decided to give her the SubQ fluids.  We haven't given her any sense because we were trying to see if it made a huge difference.  She seems to be acting the same as usual.  She is still eating and always waiting for food.  She tries to drink water and she still loves to eat ice but I know it isn't enough to flush out the toxins in her body.  I'm new to all of this so I have no idea how often we're supposed to give her the SubQ fluids.  She is starting to heave like she is trying to throw up but nothing comes out (it is so loud when she does it).  She sometimes stumbles when she's walking.  

Any advice is appreciated.  I know she is not well.  I just want her to be comfortable and happy to be with her family while she's still with us.  
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441382 tn?1452810569
This thread is 8 years old with over 900 responses.  There is very little chance that you will receive an answer from the person you posted to because, while there ARE quite a few regulars who post here, for the most part once the people who ask questions have their answers they move on and do not come back.

It would be much better if you started a new thread for your question and gave us a brief explanation of what is going on and then asked your question.  The trouble with these very old threads is that the Community Leaders really don't monitor them any more, that's why we make posts asking newcomers to PLEASE not tack their questions onto the ends of existing posts, but to start a new thread for their question.  By the time a thread has many, many comments to it like this one we can't even figure out who is asking what of whom.  Please start a new thread.

Ghilly
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17005792 tn?1452982808
Not sure if you still monitor this thread, but if you do, would you mind telling me how long Vinny lived after this and if you chose to assist in his death or let him go naturally.  I got my dogs bloodwork back today and it is quite similar to Vinny's levels.  My Vet told me he doesn't have long (7-10 days) and I'm wondering what to do and what he will go through in the next week.  Any insight?

Sue
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1916673 tn?1420233270
You are very welcome. I'll wait to hear from you.

Tony
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Avatar universal
Hello everyone,
I am new to the community and need some help with questions regarding my 11 year old chocolate lab "Bailey" and her kidney failure.  
We initially took her to our vet in July because she was always groaning because she was having arthritic pain. Our vet said that she would have to do some blood work first. Bailey was then diagnosed in with a BUN 55 / CREA 3.1 which our vet listed as high.  We were told to put her on the K/D diet which we've done.  At first she wouldn't eat it at all but now it's like she can't get enough food.  She constantly wants to eat and asks like she is starving.  She doesn't seem to be drinking as much water as she used to and still loves to eat ice.  In addition to her insatiable appetite she is constantly shivering now.  She continues to groan all the time but still seems so happy.  I work from home so there is always someone home with her.  I notice that she stumbles sometimes and tries to gag but I haven't actually seen her vomit.
I know we need to take her back to the vet but I'm scared that it will be our last trip.  
After reading many of your posts it sounds like our Bailey isn't at that point yet because she is still eating but her constant hunger makes me feel like she is starving.  We just gave her a can of wet K/D food and she finished it in 14 seconds.  She never used to be like that!  
I'm worried that she is suffering but she still seems so happy!
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Nicole
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2 Comments
Hi. The first thing you need to do is get her to the vet and have both bloods and urinalysis tests undertaken. When the results are back, get a copy and post them here. The results will tell you and us what stage of kidney disease Bailey is at. This is very important, because there is different management for different stages of the disease.

You are - in a perverse way - very lucky to have a dog that wants to eat. This disease usually inflicts the opposite response. Labs are typically quite greedy, so maybe it's not as unusual with labs. I would however suggest changing how you feed Bailey. Big meals (as in a full can of kd food) is too much all at once and will produce more stress on the kidneys - because it releases lots of by-products that the kidneys would have to deal with. The best way is to feed small amounts (the total of these small amounts equalling a normal full day's intake for the size and weight of your dog) and feed 4 times a day. These smaller amounts will satisfy Bailey's appetite over the 24hrs and will not stress his kidneys nearly as much.

Shivering is a sign of kidney disease progression. These tremors are linked to neurological damage. You may want to read an article I wrote about it, the link is here: http://www.infobarrel.com/Tremors_and_Shaking_in_Dogs_with_Kidney_Failure

I agree with you, the time has certainly not come yet for any horrible decisions. Bailey has more time with you yet, I'm certain of it.

Tony
Thank you so much.  We will take her to the vet and keep you posted on what we find out.
1916673 tn?1420233270
Thank you Rachel.

Tony
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Avatar universal
Thanks for starting this group and sharing the knowledge. Sorry to hear you lost a pup in the same way. Good for you for creating something positive to help others after your experience.

Thanks again for your support.

Rachel
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1916673 tn?1420233270
Hi. Those results are very high. The first priority right now is IV fluids given by your vet. This will help get these numbers down. What have you and your vet been doing up to this point? Have you started diet changes? Has the vet checked blood pressure? Has the vet prescribed any medication?

Tony

PS You should join our CANINE KIDNEY FAILURE IN DOGS User Group here on MedHelp. There's lots of good support there.
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Avatar universal
I have a 13 year old Schnoodle with these lab results.  Can't keep food down.  Is it close to the end?

Bun 171
Creatine 6.9
phosphorase 12.8

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1916673 tn?1420233270
Hi. My entire involvement in canine kidney disease on this and other websites came about from losing a dog in exactly the same way. I realised I knew so little about the disease - and things I might have been able to do, I learned about too late. So, this is a learning curve for me too, even after 4 years. We can never know enough about all the things that affect our best friends ... so a good vet is crucial as is our ability to research any diagnosis, once we know what illness has affected our dogs. It's easy with hindsight, but in times of emotional trauma, we can only do whatever we are able to do at the time and often with limited klnowledge.

Don't beat yourself up over it. We are (all of us) only human and we do the best we can.

Tony
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