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10821430 tn?1439580883

Heart murmur in 3.6 pound Yorkie??

Come home after 4-1/2 days to find my 10 year old Yorkie unable to breathe(of course after clinic closed) at vet by 6:45 next morning was up all night watching him diagnosed as bacterial infection no fluids in his lungs on oxygen and nebulizer antibiotics for 7 days. X-ray tech said he had a slight enlarged heart no heart symptoms prior to him getting infection in lungs he ran barked and chased other dogs while he was there vet said no heart problems he saw no murmur strong heart beat. When he went in for a 2 weeks check up vet said "I think I hear a slight murmur" so need to start him on medication since heart was slightly enlarged on X-ray meds made him sick he refused to eat so I force fed him every 3 hours round the clock but he still did not get stronger or better he was taking 1/2 tab
of 12.5 mg Furosemide 1.25 mg SID- 1/2 tab Sucralfate 1 gram SID-1/2 tab Vetmedin 1.25 SID and 1/2 tab Enalapril Maleate 2.5 mg BID he was like a zombie! Stumbled tripped when he walked stood over his water bowl
stared into space did not drink then laid down in front of his water bowl on tile floor breathing was hard and labored
and rapid so I stopped everything! Vet cut him down to 1/4 tab without much relief of same symptoms then down to
1/8 tab and still he was not doing well or eating I stopped all meds again after 3 weeks of this mess! 4 days off meds
he started to eat on his own drinking normal temperature normal breathing respitory rate is now at 26 per minute.
I read there is a blood test for heart problems pro BNP blood test but also read it will not show correct reading now
as he was on heart medications HOW DO I FIND OUT IF HE IN FACT HAS HEART PROBLMS OR MURMUR??!
He has aspirated his food eating fast before so I put a golf ball in his dish when he eats I was thinking he did this again as he is a piggy when he eats and dog sitter "forgot" to put ball in his dish but vet said with lungs and slight enlarged heart he might have heart disease and now might he thinks there is a murmur he hears BUT NOT from aspirating his food he thinks it is #2 murmur he might hear.
Sorry for getting so upset but he is now off medications for 7 days and he is starting to act normal again chasing his buddies running barking wagging his tail and turning his head side to side to listen to me when talk to him this is a
small town few vets and everyone knows everyone so there is another problem. Can anyone please offer advice on how to find out if he has heart problems or not how do I find out for sure? Old time breeder once told me "the little dogs sometimes can have a bit larger organs so she wouldn't breed way down for tiny size any truth to this?
Thank you for any help or information I do not want him on meds if not needed and do not want to not give to him
if he needs medication.
8 Responses
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10821430 tn?1439580883
Last update on 'lil guy.
Well I did find a vet over the mountain that was able to check him who
had an EEG and he does have slight enlarged heart with a grade 2 heart
murmur. This vet put him on lower amounts of medication and my guy
is doing GREAT NOW is more active more responsive and alert he eats
well drinking and playing "chase" with his brother. I feel very relieved to
have more information on what was going on with him FOR SURE no
further reactions to the medication like before.
Thanks to everyone who offered support and advice I appreciate all of
the input and caring.
MERRY CHRISTMAS
Helpful - 0
10821430 tn?1439580883
FIRST... I saw you lost your little love boy Jerry my heart goes out to
you sending loving thoughts to you and your wife.

My guy is doing better and was seen by two separate vets one heard a
very faint murmur but not sure as it was "very faint" if there at all the 2nd
said he heard a "slight murmur possibly a stage one" no one here has a
an EEG but ultrasound done showed a slightly enlarged heart ~lungs
were now normal sized no fluids.
I took him off all medication for 3-1/2 weeks to let him get stronger he did
stop shaking regained his balance after force feeding him for a week
every 3-1/2 hours he started to eat on his own drink more water and
urinate like he used to do. After he got stronger he is running after his
brother again barking when someone comes to the door chases his
brother in the backyard and into the house he is back to normal.
I did put him back on Vetmedin 1/8 a tablet once a day and no other
medication when he was on the dieuretic for some reason he drank
less and urinated less though I know it is supposed to work the opposite
on him it did not.
So I just wanted to let you know he is doing so much better and acting
like his 'ole self again maybe all the medication was just too much at one
time before he regained his strength from being so sick for that week.
He also had a lot of different antibiotics during that week and also when
he came home along with the other medications like I said it just might have been too much too soon on his 'lil body???
I do know now when we leave I will tell our son to watch him be very
aware of his breathing as he was our "dog sitter" when we were gone.
Thank you for your concern and caring!
Helpful - 0
10821430 tn?1439580883
Hey Jerry... he is a little guy but he had lost some weight from being sick
and at the clinic for a week he usually weighs around 4 pounds normal.
This is not a "normal weight" for a Yorkie he is just on the very small
side most of my puppies I had and raised were 5 to 6 pounds as the
line I had this was I weight I bred for. This 'lil guy and one female were
on the smaller side and they were not placed in homes because few
people realize what can happen with little ones or how to care for them
so they both remained with me...they were what you would call a "throw
back" because of their size. If there was a little one in the background a
long time ago it could have thrown forward these 2 were a surprise as
I knew the backgrounds weights sizes and health on all 3 of my dogs
for the past 7 generations both sides so there ya go "best laid plans"
there are no guarantees.
I have a friend who has a Westie and she just adores him he is her "heart"
buddy if memory serves me right he is right around 9 pounds....sweet
baby.
Helpful - 0
462827 tn?1333168952
Hi Janis.....Because your dog actually lost Consciousness & passed out, that would lead to yes, this being a heart problem.....

You really don't need to spend the money on a specialist, there are many regular vets that can do a EKG/EEG.....

With heart meds, you kinda have to use trial & error until the dose is correct for the patient......It's easier for a cardiologist because he/she is use to it, but not necessarily your only avenue.....

Yes, I have a poodle that has an enlarged Heart.....She has NO heart disease, but does suffer from Respiratory disease.....Her heart has been enlarged for many, many years.....Her Bronchitis flares up during certain times of the year, but I am able to control it.....She will be 14 next month...

Good luck with your little one...Please, keep us updated.....Karla



Helpful - 0
612551 tn?1450022175
Have you got some good news to share?  Hope so..

I can't add anything directly but I do know a heart murmur in a human is generally not a serious heart issue.

Wow, 3.6 pounds that is real tinny, about normal for the breed?   I consider our 20 pound Westie to be a small dog and watch over him whenever he is outside as we live "out of town" and I worry our dog is so small he could be attacked by a larger hungry wild animal.

Sending my best wishes.
Helpful - 0
10821430 tn?1439580883
added:

When he went into respitory arrest he got so excited he could not breathe
and fell backwards into my arms he passed out I was not sure if he was breathing or not sorry did I say he was tested for heartworm and it was negative had a full blood work up panel done and the 2 x-rays on his lungs which did show his heart was larger oxygen also was kept on a medicated
nebulizer for 6 days off last day to see if he could come home without
oxygen? I DID NOT go back to see him again until I brought him home as
I did not think he could live through another major episode again but called
each day instead.
Helpful - 0
10821430 tn?1439580883
Karla after I took him in I went back to see him later as I reached to hold
him he climbed up my arm to my shoulder and since he could not breathe good he went into respitory arrest. They worked on him for 25 minutes to stabilize him shots oxygen via tube into his lungs and after this I was told he did not respond well to the treatments so he was given heart meds and
this helped him at that time since he had a slight heart enlargement his lungs were enlarged and pushing on his trachea. BUT up to this point he heard no murmur and no fluids this was discovered after he was taken
back a week later for re-check when he said he thought he now heard a
murmur of 1 to 2 and sounded like some fluid ( but very little) in his lungs.
It was then he was put on all the medications and he was like a zombie,
drunk unstable walking very hard breathing almost gasping breaths he
refused to eat and I spoon fed him every 2-1/2 hours round the clock he
was restless and could not lay down to sleep and I took him off of all of
the medication.
After a week of no meds his breathing is 24 to 26 breaths a minute he
started eating on his own RUNS outside with his brother barking when
we talk to him he is alert turns his head to listen to what we say and wags his tail again he still has 4 small meals a day because he was so sick I do
not just feed him twice a day as before.
Since the x-ray tech said he had an enlarged heart my vet felt he needed
to be on heart meds and the pill for fluids is because he felt with heart problems now the fluid would return in his lungs again.
Our guy had once before aspirated food and acted the same way as this time but when we talked with our vet he said no he has heart problems now and he did not aspirate food and fluid into his lungs. I do not think he
has an EEG machine but I know at test for that was not done there was
a test done for heartworms and he is free and not infected.
He has no symptoms of heart problems no cough runs chases his brother again no shortness of breath afterwards and is actions now are almost 80%
himself the way he was I do realize he can have heart problems if just in
the first stages and not show symptoms I will try to find a heart specialist
over the mountain (100 miles away) but as it was almost $2,000 this time
to save him my special savings is pretty deleted and I have $100 a month
I save for this savings out of my Soc.Sec each month but I can check to
fine a specialist and see what tests are the costs so I know where I am at.
Sorry this was so long and thank you for responding so you said it IS
possible for them to get enlarged heart and lungs with infections?
I also told him a friend had a 4 pound Chi and she had this type of infection  ( bacterial) her vet put her little girl on antibiotics and checked
her in a week then kept her on antibiotics for 3-4 weeks longer as she said
this kind of infection can return if antibiotics stopped too soon but my vet
said it was his heart and his lungs sounded better so extended meds were
not required.
Helpful - 0
462827 tn?1333168952
Welcome to the forum.....I understand most of this, but not the lasix.....You said there was no fluid on lungs, so again I don't understand the fluid pill...

Enlarged heart does not have to mean heart disease.....Heartworm test needs to be done to rule that out FIRST! Murmur can be heard by any Vet with a Stethoscope.....

Respiratory diseases can cause enlarged hearts.....   Bronchitis is the most well known & is invaribly alive & well this time of year!

Most Vets are able to do a EKG or EEG in house....Even my 2 small town Vets have EKG machines.......They are used to moniter for any sign of heart disease.....Way before all those medications are given.....

You Vet can also refer you to a canine cardiologist to diagnose (Or rule out)  any heart disease or murmur.....There are many Vets that specialize in cardiology......They also know which medicine to give!!!!

I'm curious...How was the bacterial infection diagnosed & where does your Vet think it is???? Lungs???? Was an xray taken of the lungs, too?? They would have shown in the same xray as the enlarged heart.....However, you stated that there was no fluid in lungs.....So, it couldn't be pneumonia, which is what I was originally thinking.....

Let me know......Karla









    
Helpful - 0
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