pancreitis

[gizymo]

I have a 2 year old shitz zu about 2 months ago he had a episode of vomiting numorous times through the night Itook him to the emergency vets they took some x rays gave him some kind of shot for vomiting and sent me home.That one cost me 400.00 dollars was home for 1 hour started vomiting again delt with that all night took to my vet next morning as soon as I could get in they put IV onfor dehydration ran barium test they said was going through but slower then usual,also took bllood no pancreitis detected keep him for aday and half sent him home with meds and diet that cost me 180.00 was home for night started vomiting again next morning took back to vet ran more test no answers kept for 1 day and half again 180.00 again did ok for about 7or 8 weeks had another episode 4-17-12 vet ran blood test showed had pancreitis another 360.00 the money not the problem as you can see.note the first time he was sick my wife had to go in for emergecy surgery he appeared to get sick about a week after she was gone the first time now the second time she was back in the hospital again don,t know if this would have anything to do with it or not just weird.He has been home since yesturday can,t get him to eat anything but drinks little bit of water tried taken him for walk to maybe increase appitite.any sugestions THANK YOU

[gizymo]

2-26-2012 1st episode emergency visit exam radiograghs 2 views nothing multiple injections 1,sq fluids put on Metronidazole 250mg and vetrimega probiotic threw up 2 hours later .Took to my vet 2 days later cause sunday was next day closed.2-28-2012 Took radiograghs 2 nothing Barium test nothing but did say going down slower then normal fluids subcutaneeous/assistant,Next visit vomiting again3-1-2012 examination ROC-n/c,blood profile inhouse,fluids intravenous put on i/d canine food.Next visit vomiting again 4-19-2012examination,blood profile/cbc inhouse,radiogragh 1 view,cerenia injection-per cc,flamotidine injection,fluids subcutaneous/assistants,Put onflagy 50 mg chews-fish flavor blood profile again befor he left was there from 4-17-12 to 4-19-12 that visit 3 days,4-21-12 took back in my choice for boost to help him over the humpfluids subcutaneous/assistant,famotidine injection.Last visit vomiting again 4-25-12 was there 3 days again examination ROC-N/C,blood profile/CBC inhouse,radiogragh barium said went down normal speed this time,cerena injection-per cc,azium dexamethasone injection said blood word for pancreitis did not show that time put on i/d canine can but also bought dry ..Then my choice giving him some petialyte in his water plus cuting a 10 mg pepcid in four pieces 1 piece a day .Seems to be eating pretty well he has not been geting any treats vet acts like I shouden,t give him any begs all the time used to geting 4 or 5 day need to find some thing he could have for treats that won,t hurt stomach in any way feel like I am torturing him.Well there it all is let me know what you think .Your freind Jim want to keep geting your advise means a lot THANK YOU

[Ghilly]

To help you better understand Inflammatory Bowel Disease, here's some information for you.  IBD is an inflammation of the large intestine.  It causes vomiting and diarrhea and can also result in weight loss.  The trouble with IBD is that it is often asymtomatic (no symptoms) and therefore undiagnosed until it has been quite well established, making it more difficult to treat than a simple stomach or intestinal bug.  There are also several different problems that mimic IBD so it's important to correctly diagnose the problem so that the correct treatment can be given.

It's kind of unclear as to what actually causes IBD.  Doctors have decided that genetics, diet, infection and immune system deficits all contribute.  The intestinal tract processes all of the food taken in by the dog along with bacterial particles called antigens.  When a dog's immune system is not right for whatever reason, these antigens can be misidentified by the immune system as invaders and the body will set up a reaction to get rid of these invaders.  The result is lots and lots of inflammation in the lining of the intestine which interferes with the body's ability to absorb nutrients from the food that is being processed.  

Antigens can be bacteria, non-food items (like pieces chewed off of toys), or any foreign item that the dog ingests.  If the body's immune system is compromised in any way and this allergic-type reaction starts, sometimes the inflammation keeps going even after the antigens that caused it are no longer in the intestine.  At this point, it has become inflammatory bowel disease.

Complete blood counts, urinalysis, fecal exams, and other common diagnostics are run to check for metabolic disorders such as pancreatitis, fungal infections, liver or kidney disease, intestinal parasites, foreign body obstruction and even cancer.  If all of these tests come back negative, then all that remains is IBD, however it is best to do a biopsy of the intestinal lining to diagnose it for certain.  Biopsies today are not like they were years ago.  It used to involve actual surgery to obtain an intestinal biopsy, but these days endoscopy is routinely used.  The dog must still be anesthetized but the recover time is no longer than the wearing-off of the anesthesia.  

If a dog suffers from true IBD, they need to be put on a highly-digestible diet so that the intestine doesn't have to work hard to process it.  Anti-inflammatory drugs are used and steroids are the drug of choice to help inhibit the inflammatory process.  In some cases, the inflammation subsides to the point where it can be maintained with diet alone because long-term steroid use is not without its dangers.  The important thing to keep in mind is that once a dog has IBD, it cannot be cured it can only be controlled.  Even mild IBD can be a challenge to treat but as with anything, with diligence and perseverance, it can be managed.

It's important to manage IBD, though, because if it is allowed to progress to a severe form, it CAN become cancerous, but let's not look ahead that far at this point.

As I said yesterday, I will be happy to look through anything you send me and let you know what I think.

Hugs to you and your wife.

Ghilly

[gizymo]

I am going to send all that tomorrow,Gizymo is home now seems to be feeling better eating well today ID gastrointestinal health from vet said might be on rest of life .They seem to think he might have what you said now ,but no for sure diignose that bowl disease you mentioned.Took him for his walk tonight someone told me to put some pedialyte with his water to help they said they can live on pedialyte true or false gave him some tonight thought it may help some. They also think steroid shot helped him over hump.Don,t understand blood work last time there not this time showed pancreitis but this time no confused.Cost me another 280.00 today next move is new vet hopefully on my time and terms.You will have pages of info on gizymo tomorrow .Want to give some attention to him tonight and not leave him sitting buy himself.I thank you so very much again.Will talk to you soon your freind Jim

[Ghilly]

I would be happy to look over whatever you send me, Jim.  It sounds like Gizymo is making some good progress, whatever is going on.  It could actually be that he has mild IBD, or Inflammatory Bowel Disease.  This can have many of the same symptoms as pancreatitis, although I am curious as to what made them think it was pancreatitis when so many of the symptoms also point to other things.  There must have been SOMETHING that brought that to mind.  Hopefully it will be in the notes.

Your poor wife!  Tell her that she is most definitely in my thoughts and prayers and I send her wishes for a very speedy recovery!  You are in my thoughts and prayers as well with everything you have on your plate right now.  You and she sound a lot like my hubby and I, as even with the health problems I have, there is nothing that man would not do for me, nor I for him.  God Bless you both.  

Ghilly

[MissRitasMama]

If there were no signs of pancreatitis you might look into and ask your doctor about the test for MYASTHENIA GRAVIS.  Miss Rita has this, hers started the way that you're describing is happening with your dog.  They had put Rita on an iv drip because she went from 13 to 8 pounds in 5 days.  The vet wanted to put her down and I went for a second opinion, there they offered me this test saying that it was rare but possible.  Sure enough this was what was wrong.  It might be worth looking at, just a thought.  Here's a page with some information ... www.petplace.com/dogs/myasthenia-gravis/page1.aspx (you don't have to register to read it even though it tells you you do--just close the window

[gizymo]

I called the vet 1st thing this morning and told him that that I read about taking Flagyl and pancreitis did not give no info from who or ware.He said gizymo was doing good eating like crazy and energetic.Said he did barium test and went down normal speed but last time tested on 2-28-12 said went down but slower then normal but nothing blocking but could not tell me why,also told him to check blood again or what ever they check to see if showing pancreitis again he said no was normal.Did say he gave him a steroid shot but was eating befor that.I don,t understand the changr all the sudden.you wre asking me about his temt no temp normal stools wre normal but while they had him were starting to get tare paste dark dont know if it was from IV or meda they were giving him the three days he was in there last time were paste and dark when i took him back Monday and some diarea after they had him.Tomorrow I am going through his records from when this started 2-26-12 and send you the finding they wrote each time and the prescriptions they had him on. I want your apinion,Hopefully the vets will call me tomorrow and tell me he has been doing real well the last couple days and I can pick my little puppy up miss him.I am so thankful for you helping me out and going out of the way and telling me so much imformation I,m glad I found this site lot of good kind people.I am not real good on computers soon as I can find someone to put a picture or download one of gizymo I will put it on here.Have to go for now need sleep ,Thank god for FMLA from work have to clean wifes stomach wound 3 times a day healing process slow 16 inches long and 7 inches wide.Talk to you soon will send records tomorrow going to be very long but want your apinion.good night all.They think gizymo might have some kind of stomach or bowl disease now might need steroid shot diden,t say how often would have to see how it goes.Iwill imform you tomorrow when I get the report and hopefully pick him up might take your advice on new vet I,ll see what he says tomorrow. thanks for listening

[Ghilly]

I am very confused about the prescription for metronidazole (Flagyl) in this case.  It is common for Flagyl to be prescribed in cases of pancreatic INSUFFICIENCY when there is a bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine, however it kills anaerobic bacteria ONLY and must be combined with another antibiotic in cases of bacterial overgrowth.  Is there also another antibiotic that has been prescribed along with it, Jim?   Does Gizymo have diarrhea along with everything else?  If not, then in this case, I see the Flagyl as not only being unnecessary, but possibly detrimental.  Come to think of it, does he have a white blood cell count that is very high (or very low) or does he have a fever?  If not, then antibiotics are not even necessary, but if antibiotics MUST be given, then Cephalexin (Keflex), amoxicillin and enrofloxacin (Baytril) are MUCH better choices.  To control the vomiting, metaclopramade (Reglan) is a safe choice.  

I realize that you have spent gobs of money already, but is there any way at all that you can request your records from this vet and take them along to have another vet read them and give you a second opinion?  If you explain your situation to them, they MAY work with you once they see how concerned you are for your dog's health and how far you have come with it already with seemingly minimal results.

Have you ever heard of something called Care Credit?  You can apply for it right in the vet's office and you will know immediately whether or not you are approved.  It's a credit card-type thing that you would then use to charge your vet bills and then you could pay them off a little bit at a time as you can afford it.  Also, here is something else you can try that might be of some help.  These websites contains links for organizations that will help people who are on limited incomes or who can prove that paying exorbitant vet bills is a financial hardship for them pay for their pets' veterinary care.    

http://www.aaloc.com/helplinepetaid.htm    

This website has many more links:

http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/nonprofits/Non_profit_Organizations.htm

And a few more:

http://dogtales.wordpress.com/funds-for-pet-emergencies/

PLEASE keep us updated on how things are going.  And PLEASE tell your poor wife to calm down, something good will happen and things will work out.  It isn't going to help her get well if she is stressing so badly over this.  You are NOT going to have to put Gizymo to sleep.  Pancreatitis is extremely common in dogs and it's almost always curable unless it's the necrotizing kind and then it becomes a life-or-death issue.  It just seems overwhelming right now.  I will keep you both (and Gizymo, too) in my thoughts and prayers and will do anything I can to help.

Ghilly

[gizymo]

Man what a reply your someone who really cares.I am going to do my best to turn this around.Thank you so much

[gizymo]

I want to thank you all for trying to help me and really apreciate all the help.Jim

[gizymo]

Thanks for the reply on gizymo I apreciate all the help from everyone

[gizymo]

Thank you very much for the imfo gives me some hope wifes been upset crying all day I have been very upset my self worrying about puting him to sleep if things can,t turn around soon .Wife on disabilty from severe gastroperisis stomack issues.I am basicly only income already spent around 1500.00 plus took him back to vet this morning going to run barium test again check blood levels for paccreis again to see if high again they said wre high the other day when they had him but when he came home were close to normal don,t know not a vet.Really worried about what you said about FLAGYL because that is what there giving him and sent me home with 20 50mq tablets 2 in the morning and 2 inthe evening what should I do? JIM APRECIATE ALL THE HELP FROM EVERONE

[Ghilly]

Thanks so much, Karla!  :)

[Misfits4Me]

Goodness Sakes......Great Post Ghilly!!!!!!

[Ghilly]

Pancreatitis is an extremely painful condition to endure.   The pancreas is responsible for producing the enzymes that are used to digest food.  When pancreatitis is diagnosed, the pancreas is inflamed and producing an overabundance of these enzymes.  The reason it's such a painful condition is because the pancreas actually begins to digest itself.  It can cause such pain that the dog will suddenly yelp even while simply laying down relaxing.

When a dog is diagnosed with pancreatitis it is usually blamed on a high-fat diet but a diet that is high in fat will not cause pancreatitis in a dog with a healthy pancreas.  A high-fat diet will, however, aggravate an already-diseased pancreas to the point where an attack of pancreatitis is the result.

Some dogs are genetically predisposed to pancreatic disease.  Dogs with parathyroid conditions are predisposed, as are dogs who get too much calcium in their diets.  Dogs with Cushing's Disease (hyperadrenocorticism) can easily develop pancreatitis.  Medication can cause it as can organophosphates found in some insecticides that are used on outdoor plants and trees.   Some of the medications that have a propensity for contributing to pancreatitis are metronidazole (Flagyl), corticosteroids like Prednisone, antacids (cimetidine,ranitidine), and at one point it was thought that disc disease could be a cause but it was found that the actual cause was the steroids used to TREAT the disc disease.

When a dog is initially diagnosed, the usual course of treatment involves about a one-week stay at the vet because the dog will need to have IV therapy for about the first five or six days.  The idea is to give the animal absolutely no food or water for almost a week in order to give the inflamed pancreas COMPLETE rest where it doesn't have to worry about digesting ANYTHING.  After five or six days, food that is VERY low in fat can be introduced.  

With regard to his previous diet, Beneful is one of the worst foods on the market today and consumers are fooled into thinking that it is a healthy food because of how it is advertised.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  The snacks you were feeding him are all VERY high in fat and, while they didn't cause the pancreatitis, they probably served to exacerbate it greatly.  Foods that are good for him are boiled white meat chicken, boiled lean hamburger meat, egg whites, low-fat yogurt and beef heart or beef roast with all visible fat removed.  These things should make up about 50% of his diet.  For vegetables, broccoli, cauliflower, summer squash, cabbage and spinach should comprise about 25% of the diet.  These vegetables should all be cooked so that he can digest them correctly.  The last 25% of his diet should be starchy foods like oatmeal, barley and potatoes (either white potatoes or sweet potatoes).  Again, these should be cooked for correct digestion, in fact, with regard to the veggies and grains it is even better to OVERCOOK them to make them more digestible.

You should add supplementary enzymes to his meal so that the pancreas doesn't have to produce as many, this will help to keep any more inflammation from occurring.  There is a company called B-Naturals that sells a product called Berte's Digestion Blend that is perfect for this use.  

The worst part about this is that it takes work to prepare the meals, it's a lot more difficult than simply opening a can of dog food or measuring out several cups of dry food into a bowl.  if you take one afternoon, however, and spend it cooking, you can whip up about 2 weeks worth of meals in one day and simply freeze them in small baggies in individual servings.  Also, in order to keep the pancreas from going into overdrive, it helps to feed three or four small meals during the day instead of one big one.  If you buy the family pack of chicken breasts and cook them all, one family pack should give you a week or even more of meals for a small dog like a shih tzu.  Cook your veggies and mix up a batch of oatmeal or a handful of white potatoes or sweet potatoes and then take about 1/8 cup of white meat chicken, a tablespoon of spinach or other cooked veggie, and a tablespoon of potato, mix it together and put it in a small zip bag.  Keep going until you have everything you cooked bagged up, and then at night before you go to bed, take out four bags for the next day.  They will thaw overnight in the fridge and then you can microwave them for a few seconds before feeding just to take the chill off them.

The whole key to success with this is diligence.  You MUST be conscientious about it, almost to the point of being obsessed about his feeding schedule.  If this is a singular bout of pancreatitis, after he is better you can find him a good, healthy premium dog food and maintain him on it.  You'll have to watch him carefully, though, because since he is now prone to this, it can become chronic, and chronic pancreatitis can become life threatening.  No matter what, you MUST stick to whatever special diet you choose until he is better, that's why it's a good idea to do a week or two's worth of cooking at a time and package it in individual servings.  If you get complacent or are tired one day and figure one meal of canned dog food won't hurt, you might as well never have even started the diet.  So be tough, be resolute that you WILL see this through, and I think you'll see good results with him.

Please let us know periodically how he is doing.  You and your wife are in my thoughts.  I hope that she is feeling her old self again very soon.  Hang in there.  You can do it.  

Ghilly

[gizymo]

gizmo threw up this morning 1.ooam was ok till i took him out to pee this morning about 7.ooam threw up 3 more times only feed him boiled hamburg and rice 2 teaspoons prescription dog food with 2 antibiocs vets gave me that i am having a hard time geting him to take.starting to get overwelming with taking care of wife and dog throwing up every time iclose my eyes for hour plus work.any sugestions?sleepless in ohio

[gizymo]

Thank you very much have it wrote down see how he does on this new diet will bring up to vet if this don,t work.Jim

[kmm2281]

Hi there!  i totally feel for you in this situtation.  My boxer started w/ pacreatitis at about 1.5 years of age and has had it about 6-7 times since then.  My vet told me that its mainly caused from too much fat in there diet.  We tried so many things to stop this from happening, but I think we are on the right track now.  I currently have my dog on Famotidine (Pepcid) pro-biotics (Forti-Flora) which is made by Purina and Purina OM diet.  I have had him on this for years now had have not had 1 episode.  However I know that every dog is different, but this is what worked for mine.  I wish you luck!  I don't necessarily believe that your wife having surgery and being gone for a week had anything to do with him getting sick.  Pancreatitis is really hard to diagnosis.  My vet always checks my dogs Amylase/Lipase, which are the 2 pancreatic blood values.  They also run a CPLI which is a test specific to k9 Lipase.  Itsw the most definitive test they have for pancreatitis!!  Good Luck!!

[gizymo]

Was feeding beniful hard food till he got sick the first time then feed him mighty dog soft till this last episode.also gets lots of treats little bacon bites puppy peperoni 5 or 6 a day.also has had potato chips cheese a lot of vianna sausage when he would not eat dog food did not know it was bad till 1st vomiting epesode when vet told me.He did not eat from 1-17 till today 1-21 wife came home from hospital about 3.30pm yesturday and he eat some boiled hamburger and white rice this morning about 7.30am.had vet app.thismorning 8.45am they gave him a dyhydration shot and pepsid for a boost .seems to be doing better no vomiting but seems very tired.he has had 2 teaspoons of boiled hamburg and white rice 3 times today.If what ever test they give for pancreitis tested he had it does that mean for sure or maybe this won,t happen again with diet change and wife being home.very concerned about pancreitis the storys I READ AIN,T BEEN GOOD. Thank you for responding and the imformation.Jim

[chainsawmaggie601]

two years old is pretty young for those issues. Keep up with the vet, and bless your heart for being such a good caregiver. I think stress might have something to do with it. They do have prozac for puppies. I think your wife being gone has a lot to do with it. Keep up with the water, you know you don't want him to dehydrate again, and walks, if you can do it, will help with appetite. Good luck.

[Ghilly]

I'm so sorry it has taken so long for someone to respond to you.  We have several regulars here and several Community Leaders but sometimes life gets in the way and we can't make it here as often as we would like.  Please accept my apologies.

Is your dog super-attached to your wife?  If so, there could very well be a correlation between her having to be hospitalized and him having problems.  It could be that if he is very attached to her, when she is not at home for several days he suffers from a form of separation anxiety that manifests itself as gastric and intestinal upsets.  It could, of course, also be coincidental but I do not believe too strongly in coincidences.  I feel that if you look hard enough, you can draw a line between just about any event and one that seems to coincide with it, it's not just happenstance.

It could be, however, that his diet is contributing to these bouts of pancreatitis.  What kind of food(s) are you feeding him?  Is he eating strictly dog food or does he also eat human food?

Ghilly

[gizymo]

why no one answering me 1st time on am i doing something wrong please let me know