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Avatar universal

When is vitrectomy necessary?

I noticed flashes of light on a Thursday night (06-17-10).  I made an appointment with my eye doctor for Monday, the 21st. On Sunday, the 20th, my eye began hemorrhaging to the point where I appeared to have a film layering over my eye. After going to the emergency room, a retinal specialist was called in.  He could not see much during the exam, & did a sonagram.  He detected a retinal tear the size of one clock hour.  He told me to go home, keep my head elevated, & come back for laser surgery the next day when the blood settled.

The next day when I returned, he said the blood was even worse.  He proceeded with the laser surgery anyway.  I was surprised, since the day before he had to do a sonogram to see the tear.  He told me my vision should clear up in about 30 minutes, & to come back on Thursday, 06-24-10.  My vision did not clear up, & he told me on the 24th that he recommended a vitrectomy to have the vitreous removed & laser the tear inside my eye after the blood was removed.  He recommended doing the victrectomy on 06-30-10.

I agreed, but I was terrified.  I am on Zoloft for depression & anxiety, & I have a deep fear of eye operations (my dad was a diabetic who told me horrific stories of his surgeries).  On Monday the 28th, I contacted his office about delaying the operation, having another sonagram, or getting a second opinion.  At this point, my vision was beginning to clear to the point where I was able to read out of that eye at close range or if letters at a distance were big enough.  The doctor was out of town, but I made an appointment to see him the next day.

He seemed very upset that I wanted to cancel the surgery; he said it was in my best interest as this was a large tear & could detach.  He also warned me that there could be other tears.  I asked him if he could do another sonagram to determine if the laser surgery had been successful.  He declined, saying it was better to tell by looking directly into my eye with his instruments.  Seeing my fright, he assured me that although he would not put me completely under, I would be almost asleep during the procedure.  Frightened of getting a detached retina, I agreed.

On the 30th, he put me under only long enough to inject the eye.  I was completely awake during the whole surgery, which was not what he had promised.  He found no other tears during the surgery.  He replaced the vitreous with a saline solution which will not have to be removed, & again lasered the tear.

On 07-01-10, I went back for a post-op exam.  My vision was pretty much non-existent.  I could detect light, but nothing more.  The doctor did a sonagram, but would not tell me what it showed him.  He told me it had taken him years of study to learn, & he could not tell me in just a few minutes.  I was offended & confused.  Why wouldn't he tell me?  Why had he refused to do another sonagram right BEFORE the surgery?

I do have a cataract in that eye, which I understand will probably worsen.  It is now 07-03-10, & my vision is worse than it ever was.  I cannot determine shapes or read anything.  Will this improve?  The doctor told me my vision should be back to normal within a week (which is how long he told me to remain home from work).  I am a 52-year-old female.  Was it necessary to progress with this surgery so quickly?  Would my vision have improved on its own?  I am not a diabetic, & my normal blood pressure is very low.
Best Answer
Avatar universal
I'm not an eye care professional, but I've had two retinal procedures myself.  I suspect that your doctor's course of treatment was correct.  It's also true that he has spent many years studying and perfecting his skills within his specialized area.  However, his inability to communicate with you about your condition suggests a gross deficiency on his part, which will undoubtedly cost him patients.  And you are certainly within your rights to confront him with his failure to keep his promise to you regarding sedation during your surgery.

Your doctor may well rank among the best retinal specialists in your area, which might make you reluctant to switch to someone else.  (However, you might want to get another opinion if your vision doesn't improve soon.)  If you do continue to see this doctor, you will have to become more assertive with him, especially when confronted with his arrogance.  ("But doctor, this is about my vision, and it's very important to me to understand what's going on.  With all your knowledge and experience, I'm sure that you can communicate the basics to me if you try.")    
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Avatar universal
Thanks for your response.  I had accidentally left my paperwork in the car when my daughter took me to the surgery, and I just got it back today.  The doctor also did a membrane peel, which I was unaware of.  Is a membrane peel necessary with a vitrectomy?  

What kind of procedures did you have done?  Overall, were you satisfied with the results?

Thank you for your input.  I appreciate it.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I'm amazed that you had to read your paperwork to find out that your surgeon had also performed an (epiretinal) membrane peel!  This man obviously rates an F in Communication Skills 101.  (Maybe he's both arrogant and extremely shy?)  An epiretinal membrane is a layer of scar tissue on the retina, which can reduce acuity and cause visual distortion.  It's good that your doctor peeled it off--but he definitely should have discussed this with you.

I had two vitrectomies to peel the same epiretinal membrane.  The first procedure was less than satisfactory, because the surgeon left pieces of membrane in my eye.  He used the older vitrectomy instruments which require sutures, and I had horrible inflammation post-op due to misplaced sutures (done by a resident).  My second vitrectomy to remove the remaining pieces of membrane was performed by a different surgeon, and everything went very well.

I hope your vision improves during the next day or two, or you should definitely call your surgeon.
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233488 tn?1310693103
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
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Avatar universal
Hi.  Your dialogue box appears below my questions, but there is no text.  What is your opinion?  Does one-clock hour retina tear need a vitrectomy, laser & a membrane peel within a week after the first laser surgery?  My vision was improving before the vitrectomy, but on day four after it, I am still basically blind.  Does it take longer to heal after a membrane peel?  My doctor didn't discuss it with me, and I don't know how much I'll be able to see when I return to work one week after the surgery.

I don't understand why he refused to do a sonagram the day before the vitrectomy, then did one the day after but refused to tell me what he saw. I told him my vision had significantly improved before the surgery; I was able to read.  He scared me into having the surgery, telling me it was a large tear & it probably would detach from my retina.  He also seemed angry that I wanted to cancel the surgery, telling me he wasn't mad but that all these preparations had been made & if I did wait a week, he wouldn't be happy if I canceled again.  I felt pushed into having the surgery when it may not have been necessary.

He also told me I would be heavily sedated, so drowsy I wouldn't remember anything.  I woke up right as he started the surgery on me, I was fully awake the whole time, & I remember all of it - except for the first five minutes when he actually did sedate me to inject my eye with a needle. I felt betrayed & vulnerable.  There was nothing I could do at that point.  I did not feel pain, but I suffer from high anxiety and I have absolute terror of eye surgery.  I don't feel that I can trust him when he tells me something.

One last question - would you laser a tear if the eye was so full of blood you couldn't see it?  I thought he should have waited when he told me the blood was worse in the eye on the second day.

Thank you for your professional opinion.
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Avatar universal
You must have an emergency number for your surgeon.  Forget that it's a holiday--call him.  If he's angry, too bad.  Let him know that your vision has worsened since you last saw him, and you are very anxious and concerned.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Previously I had retinal tear with hemorrage, which was lasered. My doc took quite a long time to laser probably due to blood. Up to 3-weeks post-op, my vision was the same as before laser, where I could only see the bigger letters. The blood took six long weeks to finally clear-up. Wonder what made he thinks that the blood could clear up in 30 mins, or a day or even 3 days?
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Avatar universal
  My computer was down with a virus, so I wasn't able to respond for a few days.
  I did call my docotor's office on the 4th, & I spoke with a tech.  She said she thought what I was experiencing was normal.  So I just waited until my appointment on the 6th.
  When my eye pressure was taken, it was 35!  The doctor put me on more anti-pressure drops and told me to come back & see him in two days.  The 6th was agony; my eye hurt so bad I took one of the pressure drops early.
  When I went back on the 8th, my pressure was 26.  The tech kept taking it in different spots until it read 21.  
  When the doctor came in, he said the pressure was down to 21 (ignoring the 26 reading), and he said I was where he expected me to be!  My vision (now day 10 after the vitrectomy) is still worse than when I first visited him.  He had told me I could go back to work in a week, now he's telling me two weeks!
   I haven't really confronted him about the sedation issue or anything else, because there are only two retinal surgeons in the city I'm closest to, and the other surgeon is his business partner.  I feel stuck!  At this point, I have no confidence in this doctor because he has misrepresented so much to me.  Plus, my vision was almost back to normal before the surgery, and now I still can't read or see anything distinctly out of the operated eye.  When I asked the doctor about the vision not significantly improving after the pressure went down, he said there were "other issues", one of which is blood in the eye.  That was the one of the main reasons he had told me had to do the vitrectomy, to remove the blood left in my eye from the first hemorrhage!
   I'm thinking of going to see another opthalmologist who referred me to my present doctor.  He specializes in cataracts, which I'm sure is now worse due to this surgery.  Do you think this would be a good way to switch doctors?  I am past the danger of infection, because my current doctor told me I don't have to use the antibiotic eye drops anymore.  Or, do you think I should just ask to be switched to the other retina specialist?
  Thanks so much for all your advice.
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Avatar universal
  Thanks for your input.  I think your doctor was wise.  I think mine was reckless.  When he lasered my eye the day after the retinal tear - when he told me the blood was worse - I was shocked.  How could he have seen what he was doing?  Then, he wouldn't wait until the blood settled before telling me I had to have the vitrectomy.  The day before the surgery, I told him I didn't want to do it, but he said it HAD to be done to prevent my retina from detaching, and he HAD to remove the blood from the eye in order for me to see again.  Now he's not really concerned that my vision is worse, or that there's new blood in there from the surgery. From the initial tear it was only 10 days; from the laser treatment, it was only 9.  If he was so concerned about my retina detaching, why didn't he give me special instructions after the laser treatment?  He told me I had NO restrictions.  It doesn't make sense, does it?
   I'm going to try to switch doctors; I have no confidence in this one at all.
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Avatar universal
Your posts continue to amaze me.  You reported that you made an emergency call to your doctor's office about a post-operative problem, and your concerns were dismissed by the tech, who never even consulted the doctor!  I wouldn't have much confidence in this doctor either.

You need to be followed by a retinal specialist, not a cataract surgeon.  Is there really no possibility for seeing another retinal specialist outside this practice, even if it means some extra travel time?  It's really important that your condition continues to be monitored, and you will probably need to have annual appointments with a retinal specialist whom you trust in the future.   I suppose that you could ask for a second opinion from your doctor's partner, and then continue to see him.  This would not be optimal but might be better than your present situation.

Let us know how you're doing.  Hopefully, your vision will be improving very shortly.
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Avatar universal
  You are very knowledgeable.  I have seen several other posts you have made.  Do you have specific recommendations for sites where I can find information?  My doctor told me to STOP reading information off the Internet.  I did stop right before the surgery, because the pictures terrified me.  Since, I have done a lot of reading, but I still can't find answers to specific questions.
   Is a tear the size of one-clock hour large enough to warrant a vitrectomy?  Why did the surgeon insist on lasering the retina when the eye was so full of blood he had not been able to see the tear without a sonagram?  Why did he refuse to do a sonagram the day before the surgery when I told him my vision had significantly improved?  Why did he do one the day AFTER the victrectomy and refuse to explain what he saw?  Why is my vision (at day 12) worse than it was the day before the surgery?  Since he exchanged my vitreous with a saline solution - not a gas bubble - why didn't my vision return almost immediately, unless he damaged my eye?
  How do you get a doctor on this site to respond?  I don't know what the protocol is.
  Thank you so much for all your insight.  I'm glad you were able to find a surgeon who helped you.  I continue to hope my vision will improve.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I can't answer your questions about your doctor's actions.  Some of his past behavior (e.g., refusing to answer your questions, not keeping his promise to you about sedation during surgery, letting his tech handle your emergency phone call) suggest that he is someone whom I would NEVER want to see myself.   It's been my experience that most physicians are very reluctant to criticize another physician.  Dr. Oyakawa is responding to posts today.  You could try re-posting your concerns as a new thread.

In your place, I'd find another retinal specialist for a second opinion at www.aao.org (and hopefully not your doctor's partner.)

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Avatar universal
Thanks.  I went to see my doctor today.  He thinks everything is normal and on schedule.  I was very upset, and told him I still couldn't read.  He told me he didn't expect that I would yet.  When I reminded him that he told me the recovery period was a week and I'd be back to work with better vision, he denies ever saying that.  When I told him how upset I was over the sedation issue, he says he never said that, either.  He said he never told me I would be totally out.  I said no, but that he'd told me I would be so out of it that I wouldn't really be aware and wouldn't remember.  He says he never told me that!  I wouldn't have agreed to it if he hadn't.   He also said if he hadn't done the surgery, my retina would have detached.  So I asked him why he never gave me any restrictions if he was worried about that.  When he did the laser treatment, I asked if there were any restrictions and he specifically said no.  I feel that he is very manipulative and this has become a power issue for him with me.

He then went on to say that he has bent over backwards to help me, and that this makes him feel bad.  He asked me how I would like it if people at my job didn't trust me!  He said it makes him feel like retiring (he' s 37). I told him I had no doubt that he was a good surgeon, but I was not prepared for any of this.  I live by myself (my daughter comes over once a day), and I was in misery the week after surgery.  He told me I could drive the next day, but I wasn't able to drive for 10 days after the surgery.  I was not prepared to be blind the first week, nor did I expect my vision to be worse after two weeks than it was before the surgery.  His lame answer was, most people don't know what to expect!

  The doctor is going to be out of town next week, so my appointment is scheduled with his partner.  He said it won't hurt his feelings if I want to change doctors.  If I feel that the other doctor is more trustworthy, I'll switch.  He's older, more experienced, and hopefully, wiser.  If I don't like him, I may have to go to Ft. Worth or Dallas.  All I know is that I cannot be treated by someone who misrepresents my treatment and recovery.  I cannot trust him.

  I may write to a doctor on this website next week if I don't get the answers I need.

  Thanks for all your continued help and support.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
The doctor you've described in your posts is arrogant, untrustworthy, and unprofessional. It's hard for me to imagine that his partner could be worse than he is.

I'm so sorry that you've had to endure such a miserable, anxiety-provoking situation.  Perhaps when your vision has improved (and I believe it will), it will be easier for you to consider making the trip to Ft. Worth or Dallas, where there are many ethical, caring retinal specialists.



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Avatar universal
Thanks.  My vision is still improving, but I can't read (except for very large letters), and my central vision is still very fuzzy, but it is getting better.

I do plan to switch doctors.  Hopefully, the partner is someone whom I can trust so I won't have to go far away (and miss even more time away from work).

After I see the new doctor next week, I'll repost & let you know.

Thanks for your continued support.
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Avatar universal
It can take the a long time for the retina to heal, especially if your doctor really did peel an epiretinal membrane.  (Be sure to ask about that.)  I'm glad that there's been some improvement already.  I understand about not wanting to take time away from work, especially in this economy.  Keep us posted on your progress.
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Avatar universal
   It turned out that he DIDN'T do an epiretinal membrane peel.  What he did was scrape off the area where the vitreous was attached.  He wrote down membrane peel on the medical form, but it wasn't a complete peel or what would actually be termed an epiretinal membrane peel.
   I looked in my eye with a penlight this afternoon, and my pupil is clouded.  I already had a cataract, and I think it's probably worsened so that I'll have to have another surgery.  I still think the doctor could have waited for the blood to clear & laser the tear again rather than do the vitrectomy.  I did NOT have a retinal detachment, and I did NOT want the surgery. He misled me about the sedation he would give me & about the recovery process.  At this point, I am switching doctors.
  Thank you for your response. I appreciate all the feedback I can get.  This website has been very helpful.
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Avatar universal
I'm sorry to hear about your experience.  I just wanted to share with you my experience and hopefully it will encourage you a little bit.  I have Proliferative Diabetic Retinopathy.  I had a vitrectomy on my roght eye back on Nov 5th 2009.  I was super discouraged when after spending 10 days face down after the operation, I could see nothing.  I mean nothing but light.  I couldn't see my own hand literally in front of my face.  It was  months before I could see how many fingers you were holding up in front of my face. It's gotten progressively better, though. I can now see pretty well with it, including even reading (albeit with difficulty---I don't read for pleasure much any more).  

Anyway, I expected the results to come much faster and was very discouraged in the beginning (especially since I had a bad reaction to anesthesia and was super nauseous for months afterward)  The possibility for going blind for me is very real.  If I were able to maintain this level of vision, I would be satisfied.  Again, I hope that your reocvery is just slow paced lilke mine and keeps getting better.  

This stuff is scary and very emotional.  Try to keep your spirits up.  
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Avatar universal
  Hi.  Thanks for your encouragement.  I am upset because I don't think the surgery was necessary. I'm not a diabetic; I went to see the other doctor (my former doctor's partner), & he said the surgery was mainly done to remove the blood from my eye!  I asked him why the recovery period was not a week as I had been told (I didn't have a gas bubble put in my eye, so I didn't have to be facedown at all). The new doctor told me that's what the normal recovery period is, but I had complications - the surgery caused another hemorrhage & then my eye pressure was too high. My eye pressure at the visit with the new doctor last week was 24; he immediately said it was too high.  He told me to decrease the Pred Forte to once a day for a week & then discontinue.  He also advised me to increase the pressure drops to 3 times a day.  When I first complained about the pain from the Pred Forte with the former doctor, he wasn't too concerned.  I had been taking the Pred Forte four times a day; a week after the surgery, it was 35.  The doctor said it wasn't 80, so it wouldn't damage my eye!  As much pain as I was in, I couldn't imagine 80.
   My issues with the doctor are these:  I don't think the surgery was necessary, as the blood was clearing before the surgery & I could read again; the doctor misrepresented the sedation I would receive (I was awake & completely aware, unlike what he promised - I would never have agreed to the surgery if I'd known he would not sedate me to the point where I wouldn't really be aware of what was going on); it took me almost 4 weeks to reach the point where I was the day before the surgery; and did I mention, it accelerated a cataract I had to the point where my vision will NOT improve without more surgery?  To top it all off, I received my first statements from the doctor & his surgical center:  1/2 hour to 45 minutes of the doctor's time in the operating room was  $12,000  & his surgical center (where I spent 2 to 2 1/2 hours) cost $20,200!  All this for a surgery I didn't want, which delayed my recovery from my original hemorrhage, caused pain & suffering, & my vision is WORSE!  I have to have cataract surgery when the pressure goes down in my eye!  I promise it won't be with this doctor; I plan to shop around.  I do have health insurance, but I think it is morally wrong for a doctor to push you into a surgery that costs more than you make in a year - for less than 1/2 a day's work.
   Well, I'm glad that you were satisfied with your outcome.  I'm not satisfied with mine.  I wish I'd had the option of going to a different clinic; it was the only one in my area.  Good luck with your vision in the future.
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