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donor eggs vs own eggs?
It's me again. Thank you for your reply but I still want to know whats the difference between the same quality eggs from someone younger vs older? Is there something that the naked eye can't see? Please help me understand.... Also what do you know about DHEA and IVF? I took it on my first IVF. Is there any benefit in using it when doing IVF with donor eggs? Thank you for your patience. Debra
Thanks for the words of encouragment:):) Debra
I wouldn't worry--maybe your cycle was thrown off by the IVF cycle and your period will be late this month. I know I read somewhere that women who ovulate before day 13 will have lower fertility that cycle; and I'm pretty sure I ovulated on day 11 during the cycle in April in which I got pregnant. So all of these statistics always have exceptions (even my RE told me to stop focusing on all of the statistics). You can always hope and try!
My cycle runs 26-29 days. Should ovulate around days 13-16, I'm on day 20. Ovulating this late is not good is it? Not enough time for the uterus to thicken. Thats what I've been reading, so maybe nothing to get excited about. What have you heard about late ovulation?Something else to be frustrated about.....
Debra
Debra
Guess what?? You know I told you I've been doing OPT since day 11 with nothing right. Wasn't going to test anymore. Then today decided one more time can't hurt. Got a POSITIVE!!! Maybe this is the start of our prayers being answered. I'll keep you updated.:):):) Debra
That's great news! I'll be hoping and praying this is the month for you! Plus, it sounds like you have a great donor lined up, so you're in for good things either way. If you don't mind my asking, what day did you get the positive result on, and how long is your average cycle? I ask because my cycle varies between 24-28 days (and always has), so when I did the ovulation tests a few months ago, I really wasn't sure what day to begin on. And then I got what I thought were positive results one time on day 11 and the other time on day 14, so it just added to my confusion.....
You know I understand the whole age thing. But still confused about the quality issue. I assume grade 1 in an older egg is not the same as grade 1 in a younger egg. I need to stop trying to figure out what went wrong. But I'm one of those people who need answers. Maybe this one I need to just leave alone. My RE likes Clearblue Easy or First Response. I like Clearblue Easy because it has the smiley face which leaves no unsure result. Talk to you soon:) Debra
I see you got an answer from the doctor (though I'm still not sure if that really answers your question?). For what it's worthy, I think I recall my ob-gyn said that it's harder for the sperm to penetrate an older egg. I think my RE said that older eggs are very fragile, so they don't hold up well during IVF. (Those two answers seem somewhat contradictory--how can eggs be both harder and more fragile?) Anyway, ss for the those ovulation predictor tests, I used them in Feb. and March; I'd bought two of the same kind, and I was trying to compare the color of the pink lines, and it looked to me that I'd ovulated, but I wasn't totally sure. In April (when I actually conceived), I just went by my body's signs and guessed. My ob-gyn surgeon said no sex for four weeks past the D&C, so we haven't been able to try yet. I now seem to have gotten my period at 23 days past my D&C, so I don't know if my cycle is going to be shorter than it was, or if that's just some fluke thing after the miscarriage. I think I may just spend the money and buy one of those digital predictor kits that give a smiley face or some other definite response. Is there a brand you know of that works well?
Hi again :)
Age is the difference. To try to give you another example, think of an organ other than the ovary.
The heart of a 20 year old, for example, will be healthier than the heart of a 70 year old. A better example might be the eyes. Most people have much better eyesight in their 20s than in their 40s. Ears also work better in a person's 20s than by the time they are 45. The skin of a 25 year old will look very different and have a much younger, firmer, structure, than the skin of a 45 year old. By the same token, 45 year old ovaries do not function like 20 year old ovaries. When women are born, they have probably two million eggs in their ovaries. By the time women start having periods in the early teens, there are only 300,000-400,000 eggs left - from birth onwards the poorest quality eggs undergo a process called atresia where they die off. The best quality eggs are the eggs that ovaries release earlier in reproductive years since these eggs are most responsive to signals from the brain to ovulate. By the time someone reaches their mid-40s, there are probably less than 100,000 eggs left, and those that are left are the poorest quality onces that did not respond to signals from the brain to be released in the younger years. Forty-five year old eggs just cannot do the job.
Another example, not involving we humans, is a car. A 1995 car worked great in 1995; by 2007 it will just not funtion as well any more.
So, to answer your question 'whats the difference between the same quality eggs from someone younger vs older', the answer is the eggs of a forty-five year old are not the same quality as the eggs of a 25 or 30 year old, just as the eyes, ears, heart, skin of an older person are not the same quality as the eyes, ears, heart, skin of a younger person.
As for DHEA, I have not seen a well done study showing any benefit at all to DHEA with IVF. I would recommend against using DHEA.
By the way, I hope I am not sounding to harsh on the age issue; I am 48 myself and while I too feel as good or better than I did twenty years ago, the facts are the facts...
Age is the difference. To try to give you another example, think of an organ other than the ovary.
The heart of a 20 year old, for example, will be healthier than the heart of a 70 year old. A better example might be the eyes. Most people have much better eyesight in their 20s than in their 40s. Ears also work better in a person's 20s than by the time they are 45. The skin of a 25 year old will look very different and have a much younger, firmer, structure, than the skin of a 45 year old. By the same token, 45 year old ovaries do not function like 20 year old ovaries. When women are born, they have probably two million eggs in their ovaries. By the time women start having periods in the early teens, there are only 300,000-400,000 eggs left - from birth onwards the poorest quality eggs undergo a process called atresia where they die off. The best quality eggs are the eggs that ovaries release earlier in reproductive years since these eggs are most responsive to signals from the brain to ovulate. By the time someone reaches their mid-40s, there are probably less than 100,000 eggs left, and those that are left are the poorest quality onces that did not respond to signals from the brain to be released in the younger years. Forty-five year old eggs just cannot do the job.
Another example, not involving we humans, is a car. A 1995 car worked great in 1995; by 2007 it will just not funtion as well any more.
So, to answer your question 'whats the difference between the same quality eggs from someone younger vs older', the answer is the eggs of a forty-five year old are not the same quality as the eggs of a 25 or 30 year old, just as the eyes, ears, heart, skin of an older person are not the same quality as the eyes, ears, heart, skin of a younger person.
As for DHEA, I have not seen a well done study showing any benefit at all to DHEA with IVF. I would recommend against using DHEA.
By the way, I hope I am not sounding to harsh on the age issue; I am 48 myself and while I too feel as good or better than I did twenty years ago, the facts are the facts...
I wondered about the progesterone because my progesterone started dropping just before the miscarriage, which I guess is not uncommon in older pregnant women; I was put on progesterone (vaginal suppositories), but I guess it's hard to up a woman's progesterone once the pregnancy is underway. So I was wondering if they tried to get your progesterone level up before the IVF (although I'm not sure whether I can compare IVF and non-IVF pregnancies). I'm wondering about it now because I really want to try to conceive before my doctor's appointment, which is mid-August. I can't get in to see him any sooner, and I really don't want to waste any cycles at this age! But maybe I need to raise my progesterone levels first....
I'll probably try to post a question to the doctor on this topic at some point; sometimes I get frustrated with the answers here, though, because the doctors don't always seem to read the question carefully, so then you don't get an answer to what you asked. (It appeared you had the same problem with your last question.) By the way, do you know what kind of insurance covers donor egg procedures? My husband and I can choose between a few different insurance carriers--suddenly I'm realizing I should check out the other carriers' policies re. donor eggs. In any case, I'm very happy for you that it's all coming together so well!
I'll probably try to post a question to the doctor on this topic at some point; sometimes I get frustrated with the answers here, though, because the doctors don't always seem to read the question carefully, so then you don't get an answer to what you asked. (It appeared you had the same problem with your last question.) By the way, do you know what kind of insurance covers donor egg procedures? My husband and I can choose between a few different insurance carriers--suddenly I'm realizing I should check out the other carriers' policies re. donor eggs. In any case, I'm very happy for you that it's all coming together so well!
We also are trying this month. I've been doing OPT since day 11 and nothing.
I don't think I can ovulate on my own anymore. Still doing everything possible just in case I do. Do you use OPT? Hope this turns out to be a successful month for you guys. Debra
I don't think I can ovulate on my own anymore. Still doing everything possible just in case I do. Do you use OPT? Hope this turns out to be a successful month for you guys. Debra
Your right. Still waiting for my answer to the above question. From what I've read your body doesn't start producing progesterone until after ovulation. Its from the follicle left behind. Thats why in IVF you have to do the shots because they remove the follicle to retrieve the eggs. The shots cont. until the placenta can take over. The insurance were looking at is National Alliance with providers through Beechstreet and NPPN. The rate for a single is only $199.00 a mth. They were having open enrollment so this is a special rate offered only for a short time. Regular rate is $325.00. I had given up on insurance that covered this but there out there. I'll be speaking again with the rep. on Monday. I'll get the info for you to contact them if you'd like. Let me know. Debra
Yes, things are not fair when it comes to fertility. My mom tried to conceive from her early 20s to late 30s; I was her only biological child (my brother was adopted). Her first child was a full-term stillbirth (after 5 years of trying), which was terribly painful for both of my parents. She also had several miscarriages. In those days, they hospitalized you for a D&C, and the woman in the bed next to her was also pregnant but did not want to be, so she asked my mother for advice on how to have a miscarriage. You can imagine how that made my already heartbroken mother feel. She still comments on her stillborn baby from time to time, so I think you never really get over the pain. But she also has said that she's so glad to have adopted my brother, so in retrospect she thinks God had a good plan for her. So maybe things will look different to us too as time passes and we actually have children! By the way, did you see there's a new patient-to-patient forum on pregnancy for women over 35?
What a sad story. My heart goes out to your mom. But all ended well. She was blessed with two wonderful children.By the way, why did you ask about the progestrone? And thanks for telling me about the new forum. I just introduced myself over there. Got some good news today. At work we are looking into new insurance it has no pre-existing and will cover 50-70% of IVF using donor eggs. Can you believe that! Good things are coming our way. Debra
I forgot to tell you, I spoke to my RE office today. They have the complete profile on our donor for me to review and should be getting a picture in the next few days. They tell me she is getting married soon and this will be her last donation. She must feel good giving such a wonderful gift to those of us who need help. I am thankful for her giving heart. You know, I still have times when I'm just mad about the whole thing. I work with a girl who has 3 kids by 3 different men and now is expecting a 4th by some one she is again not married to. She wasn't even trying to concieve. Didn't want another child. Then you have people like us. Wanting a child so badly and trying everything possible. Why not us???Just makes me want to SCREAM!!! Anyway, I know this is the right choice for us and this is going to bring our dreams to life. Hope you had a great day:) Debra
On the day of retrieval they checked progesterone levels then again on day of transfer. Started progesterone shots (IM) once a day the day after retrieval. They said levels were perfect to support a pregnancy. Debra
Sorry. He answered my ? but not in the detail I was wanting. So I asked again for more in depth info along with another ?. New to this forum, still learning.
You can only ask 2 questions a day on this doctor moderated forum so make sure to ask additional questions in the same post.
Your question to the doctor reminded me of something I wanted to ask you. Were you put on progesterone at any point (either when trying to conceive on your own or during the IVF process)? If so, what form was it (i.e., was it shots, suppositories, pills)? Do you remember when in the process you took it? Hope you're having a good 4th!
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