Aa
The cause of fibromyalgia was discovered
In a recent study, the cause of fibromyalgia is actually an abnormality in the palms of patients' hands.
It was found that patients with fibromyalgia have an enormous increase in the number of sensory nerve fibers within the blood vessels of the skin on the palms of their hands.
So the next step is to find out why there are so many of these nerve fibers.
It's a start!
It was found that patients with fibromyalgia have an enormous increase in the number of sensory nerve fibers within the blood vessels of the skin on the palms of their hands.
So the next step is to find out why there are so many of these nerve fibers.
It's a start!
Hey Caryopteris.
My darts were aimed at the study and it's authors and not to you!!
We are all entitled to our opinions and the premise of the content of
our replies in this forum, reflects only the opinion of members, which sometimes might invite some opposition or controversy and this may be perceived by some as rudeness (as in this case)
Enough said. Let's move on please!
Cheers.
Niko
My darts were aimed at the study and it's authors and not to you!!
We are all entitled to our opinions and the premise of the content of
our replies in this forum, reflects only the opinion of members, which sometimes might invite some opposition or controversy and this may be perceived by some as rudeness (as in this case)
Enough said. Let's move on please!
Cheers.
Niko
You were the last to comment on this article. I never received any notice of anyone commenting on this old comment I posted.
After reading all the comments ( and I find Lightseeker's delivery to be very rude as this was just a discussion and not a proclamation of the final answer, but just an interesting piece of the puzzle where at least a physical anomaly was discovered, proving this problem was not in sufferers' heads!), I would like to say that I used to have a lot of bodily aches and pains and I also had cold extremities and Raynaud's. After starting antidepressants, including amitriptyline, my hands warmed up and my body aches went away. All my problems seemed to be related to constipation and later discovered I also had Celiac disease, and now that I can keep my constipation in check with Amitiza and don't eat gluten or dairy, I don't have Raynaud's or joint pain. So I would say that poor circulation causing hand pain or maybe other causes of hand pain also can lead to body pain. I will say I never had a diagnosis of fibromyalgia because when the areas of pain were counted (back in the 1990s) the number wasn't high enough. So not fibromyalgia, but I had a lot of pain and all these years later, after treating my problems, the pain is gone. If Lightseeker wants to call this poppycock, again I find that rude as I am just bringing my anecdote out for consideration that may lead others to explore ways to get relief. The formal medical community often is not the first place to find effective relief.
After reading all the comments ( and I find Lightseeker's delivery to be very rude as this was just a discussion and not a proclamation of the final answer, but just an interesting piece of the puzzle where at least a physical anomaly was discovered, proving this problem was not in sufferers' heads!), I would like to say that I used to have a lot of bodily aches and pains and I also had cold extremities and Raynaud's. After starting antidepressants, including amitriptyline, my hands warmed up and my body aches went away. All my problems seemed to be related to constipation and later discovered I also had Celiac disease, and now that I can keep my constipation in check with Amitiza and don't eat gluten or dairy, I don't have Raynaud's or joint pain. So I would say that poor circulation causing hand pain or maybe other causes of hand pain also can lead to body pain. I will say I never had a diagnosis of fibromyalgia because when the areas of pain were counted (back in the 1990s) the number wasn't high enough. So not fibromyalgia, but I had a lot of pain and all these years later, after treating my problems, the pain is gone. If Lightseeker wants to call this poppycock, again I find that rude as I am just bringing my anecdote out for consideration that may lead others to explore ways to get relief. The formal medical community often is not the first place to find effective relief.
It's very interesting research.
I don't doubt there is a difference in blood vessels, extra blood vessels fit my symptoms very well. (My own GP has noticed my palms are "very reactive," to temperatures.)
My main question about it is how/when these blood vessels develop.
Some of us get Fibro very young, while others spontaneously develop it later in life, and other develop it after a trauma.
How does this work with the blood vessels?
I don't doubt there is a difference in blood vessels, extra blood vessels fit my symptoms very well. (My own GP has noticed my palms are "very reactive," to temperatures.)
My main question about it is how/when these blood vessels develop.
Some of us get Fibro very young, while others spontaneously develop it later in life, and other develop it after a trauma.
How does this work with the blood vessels?
Hmm.
So the "independent" scientists , get 100% funded by Forest Laboratories and Eli Lilly , the makers of the 2 BEST selling SNRIs.
By including in the conclusion of their study the possible "therapeutic benefit of SNRI compounds by enhancing the impact of sympathetically mediated inhibitory modulation of the excess sensory innervation", their "independent" status, becomes highly questionable.
So the "independent" scientists , get 100% funded by Forest Laboratories and Eli Lilly , the makers of the 2 BEST selling SNRIs.
By including in the conclusion of their study the possible "therapeutic benefit of SNRI compounds by enhancing the impact of sympathetically mediated inhibitory modulation of the excess sensory innervation", their "independent" status, becomes highly questionable.
Dr Frank Rice, senior scientist of the study, has written a comment under the article "Too Many Nerves: New Pathology Discovered in Fibromyalgia" by Adrienne Dellwo. An excerpt from his comment...
"It was our previous research that indicated to us that the pathology might be in the blood vessels of the skin, which if correct, would change our whole understanding of the disease. So, in this case, we as independent scientists were the ones who asked the pharmaceutical companies if they would be willing to fund a study to investigate this. They agreed. So without their support, the studies could not have occurred."
"It was our previous research that indicated to us that the pathology might be in the blood vessels of the skin, which if correct, would change our whole understanding of the disease. So, in this case, we as independent scientists were the ones who asked the pharmaceutical companies if they would be willing to fund a study to investigate this. They agreed. So without their support, the studies could not have occurred."
Simply Ludicrous!!!
Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but this is insane to my opinion.
I mean no disrespect to all of you that can relate to this "symptom"
presented in the study, as it is absolutely real, but it is important to
distinguish between an abnormality and an actual cause.
Thanks for sharing this Caryopteris, as it makes an interesting topic for discussion and argument and I will of course take the contrarian position.
From the study which was 100% funded by Forest Laboratories and Eli Lilly
the makers of the 2 best selling SNRIs (Serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors). Cymbalta is made by Eli Lilly and Lexapro is made by Forest Labs) see #2 the sales pitch for their drugs in their own study!!!
How convenient!
1."AVS (arteriole-venule shunts) were identified in hypothenar skin biopsies from 18/24 FM patients and 14/23 control subjects"
Comment: These are just findings in a very tiny study, and more like symptoms but without any proof of cause and not even significantly supported by the numbers.
2."SNRI compounds may provide partial therapeutic benefit by enhancing the impact of sympathetically mediated inhibitory modulation of the excess sensory innervation." PMID: 23691965 Conclusions; Line 4
Comment: A conclusion of a study offering treatment when the objective of the study is: "To determine if peripheral neuropathology exists among the innervation of cutaneous arterioles and arteriole-venule shunts (AVS) in fibromyalgia (FM) patients", makes the entire study highly suspect!
3. "Blood flow dysregulation as a result of excessive innervation to AVS would likely contribute to the widespread deep pain and fatigue of FM"
Comment:
The connection from impaired blood flow in the hands leading to pain all-over the body has not been established, only hypothesized.
Why the cause of the excessive amount of sensory fibers was not explored further, but rather presented as a cause itself?
Final thoughts: Fibromyalgia is a very complex syndrome involving multiple
organ systems. It is very unlikely that the narrow view of this study, will make any significant contribution toward proper treatment, other than potential further symptom management approaches using the aforementioned drugs. And as far as the cause of fibromyalgia goes, I will give this study a failing grade, as the presentation of symptoms supported by a "hypothesis (not proof!) of blood flow dysregulation in the hands, likely contributing to the widespread deep pain and fatigue in fibromyalgia", does not constitute nor establish a causative factor.
The only positive comment I can make, is that at least fibromyalgia is recognized in this study as a medical condition and not something just in the heads of the complaining patients. Lol!
Best Wishes to all!
Niko
Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but this is insane to my opinion.
I mean no disrespect to all of you that can relate to this "symptom"
presented in the study, as it is absolutely real, but it is important to
distinguish between an abnormality and an actual cause.
Thanks for sharing this Caryopteris, as it makes an interesting topic for discussion and argument and I will of course take the contrarian position.
From the study which was 100% funded by Forest Laboratories and Eli Lilly
the makers of the 2 best selling SNRIs (Serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors). Cymbalta is made by Eli Lilly and Lexapro is made by Forest Labs) see #2 the sales pitch for their drugs in their own study!!!
How convenient!
1."AVS (arteriole-venule shunts) were identified in hypothenar skin biopsies from 18/24 FM patients and 14/23 control subjects"
Comment: These are just findings in a very tiny study, and more like symptoms but without any proof of cause and not even significantly supported by the numbers.
2."SNRI compounds may provide partial therapeutic benefit by enhancing the impact of sympathetically mediated inhibitory modulation of the excess sensory innervation." PMID: 23691965 Conclusions; Line 4
Comment: A conclusion of a study offering treatment when the objective of the study is: "To determine if peripheral neuropathology exists among the innervation of cutaneous arterioles and arteriole-venule shunts (AVS) in fibromyalgia (FM) patients", makes the entire study highly suspect!
3. "Blood flow dysregulation as a result of excessive innervation to AVS would likely contribute to the widespread deep pain and fatigue of FM"
Comment:
The connection from impaired blood flow in the hands leading to pain all-over the body has not been established, only hypothesized.
Why the cause of the excessive amount of sensory fibers was not explored further, but rather presented as a cause itself?
Final thoughts: Fibromyalgia is a very complex syndrome involving multiple
organ systems. It is very unlikely that the narrow view of this study, will make any significant contribution toward proper treatment, other than potential further symptom management approaches using the aforementioned drugs. And as far as the cause of fibromyalgia goes, I will give this study a failing grade, as the presentation of symptoms supported by a "hypothesis (not proof!) of blood flow dysregulation in the hands, likely contributing to the widespread deep pain and fatigue in fibromyalgia", does not constitute nor establish a causative factor.
The only positive comment I can make, is that at least fibromyalgia is recognized in this study as a medical condition and not something just in the heads of the complaining patients. Lol!
Best Wishes to all!
Niko
That's so interesting... I'm off to do some reading, thank you for sharing.
For those interested, I found this article:
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/aging-scientists-find-physical-cause-of-fibromyalgia-062113
For those interested, I found this article:
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/aging-scientists-find-physical-cause-of-fibromyalgia-062113
I also agree this is very interesting! I too have a lot of pain in my hands, numbness tingling, burning. Also can't wear a watch or braclets do to the it hurts my wrists too much, would love to read more on this study!
Very interesting since I have a lot of pain in my thumbs and between my thumbs and forefingers. I can't stand a watch because it makes my wrists hurt.
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