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suicide ,,of my two children ,....

hi everyone ,.this is my frist time in the loss and grief ,im in the depression forum ,...........i couldnt up till come in here ,.........but im here now ........and my question is ,............if there is someone out there that has had two children die from suicide can they please let me know how they are dealing with it ,............because im not dealing with it so good ,.......i have become suicidal myself through this ,........i know i need to be here for my young son ,,but sometimes the pain is overwhelming ,.........and i dont see my young son there ,..........its like i go into a world of my own ,......and im afraid i will never come out of that world ,....i dont want to die ,..but i dont want to live with this pain .,........i have a very good friend on mh ,.......and she has been great to me ,..but as much as that has been i still need to talk to someone in my position ,.............dont ask me why because i dont even know that myself ,...till it happens ,............thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this ,..........
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Avatar universal
I lost my son to suicide 15 months ago.  I wanted to know how are you doing?
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I lost my son to suicide oct 15 th 2011 I too am having a really hard time you see I lost twin 17 month old girls in a fire also and I don't wanna be here anymore after the loss of my girls I prayed everynite that God wld watch over my son a d help him get his life together and protect him i prayed I wldnt loose my son alsoim on 3 meds and goin to counseling but I hurt so much I just dnt care anymore
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Avatar universal
Belle, I don't know if you still keep in touch with this forum, but I hope you are still making it through the days. I have always had a special love for all children and have been a firm believer since before I was even a teenager that there is nothing worse than a parent outliving their child... let alone to suicide. I have always been a very empathic person and can imagine how hard it would be for a parent to lose a child. I can understand your post about how hard it was for you to deal with it the first time but were managing to get through until it happened again. I can also understand your posts about retreating into your own world just to avoid the pain if even only for a brief time... I don't know if you know this but the story of Peter Pan stemed from a mother who lost a son... after her son died she just couldn't deal with it, she went off into her own little world like the trance/daze you mentioned... she stayed in bed all they time with ha glazed look in her eyes and completely forgot that she had another son, even when he tried to go into her room to see her she just couldn't see him. No one could get her out of the trance. This went on for a few years I believe until one day the remaining son made himself look like his brother and went to see her... seeing what looked like her dead son she turned her head in his direction for the first time since his brother died, she realized right away that it wasn't her dead son and finally remembered that she still had another son. Along with the rest of reality finally hitting her she realized what her living son had resorted to doing just to get her to look at him (even if he didn't think she'd realize it was him she'd be looking at). After becoming aware of what happened to her after her sons death and what she how she had completely forgotten her living son while she had retreated into her trance she decided not to go back into it and they worked together to find ways of helping her deal with it.... which included him making up a world where his brother stayed young and lived forever in a world that he later wrote down as the story of Peter Pan.

The thing is that this mother went into that bad of a trance over losing only 1 child (I believe it was at least 2 years before her other son finally found away to snap her out of it)... being as empathic as I am I am amazed that any parent can get over the loss of even one child... and even parents that lost 2 children at the same time would have a much easier time dealing with than you who had to go through 2 entirely different instances of it.

Not only have you somehow managed to survive both tragedies, but you actually manage to pull yourself out of your trance and endure the pain long enough to acknowledge the fact that you still have 2 children in this world and spend time with them, let alone still raise one and have made sure he's gotten the help he needs. That alone makes you so much stronger than so many in this world. I suffer from depression myself and have learned to try to always have something to concentrate on till I get through the worst of moments (I am just gonna keep concentrating on or doing this no matter what I think or how I feel). For you I certainly would recommend not thinking about the future beyond the next breath you take or heart beat you allow to happen... and I sincerely hope that in your worst of times you are somehow able to recognize and remember how strong a person you are for every breath you've taken and every beat you've allowed your heart to beat right up to the moment your in.

I also get a sense from this forum that you haven't been able to find any of your local supports and groups very helpful and due to the magnitude of your tragedy I am not surprised. If you had managed to find people locally that had gone through what you have you wouldn't have started this forum, let alone after so many year... I do however think that there must be people out there who have been through it and you should continue to find them and once you've found each other to start your own support group. As much as the internet makes it easier for people to connect it can also make it harder, there could be other people trying to find you and you guys are just on different pages, the www is so large people don't always know where to look or post :(. I would not give up the search because they must be out there, you could maybe look up news stories for ones that match yours, or even call a national media and get them to do a small story to help you and people like you to connect. If you do manage to find people that have gone through the same thing I suggest that you get together regularly (even if only once a year) as well as keeping in touch long distance because there is nothing like the physical presence of people who have been through the same thing... to shake their hand or give them a hug knowing that they are or have been where you are right now.

The only other thing I want to say is although I wouldn't mind seeing a post saying you're still out there and holding on, as I see it's been quite some time since this forum was active...I would not feel right about you posting a message saying that your grateful for all my concern, sympathies and well wishes,... in my books it's the rest of the world that should grateful for every moment, hour and day you grace us with you presence.
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Avatar universal
First of  all I want to tell you how sorry I am for your losses.  I too am having a really hard time lately, actually tomorrow will be the anniversary of my two sons passing away.  They were in a car accident, Nick was 17 and Jim was 10.  Nick was the driver.  It has been 9 long horrible years and I still can't accept that I will never in this life see them, hold them, or hear their sweet voices.  I can't even remember a time when I was actually happy or really could look forward to anything, maybe we can help each other.
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Avatar universal
Been a while since I've seen you post. Probably busy. Jusy drop a line to let us know how you are. You may have done so and I just do not know how to retrieve. Thinking about you and praying for strength as you face each day----Strength to take one step at a time and should you feel your trembling--reach out, we will grab your hand and hold you up.
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Avatar universal
im sorry i didnt get back to you all ,........ive been reading all of what you wrote me ,....

its so good to know care so much for me ,....i dont know what to say except thank you for your kind words ,......every thing that you have said thelma made so much sence ,..

but i cant see me ever excepting  the deaths of my children ,......no i never will ,...i am so sad to have heard of your loss ,.thats the month my son died feb 0002 ,....gloucester,

im sorry for you loss , it is early days for you im so sorry i know just how you are feeling ,....i cant writ much im so taking back with the kind and wisdom words from you thelma and you have so much on your plate at the moment ,...my grandson is in the hospital now he is only 9 ,.....he was operated on Monday and ive been with him most of the week ive been with him on and of since sunday ,.....im tired now and i am feeling so low in myself today ,......he will be ok now he had appendicitis's ,

i took him myself to the hospital because he was staying with me that day ,...it was just as well i did ,.........but im tired now ,............gloucester you are so lucky to have your sons daughter and i know you can see your son in her ,........just like when i could see my sons ,son ,...he was 10 weeks old at the time my son died ,.we seen him till he was 2 and a half ,.......but we dont see him anymore i miss him so much to ,....

his mam my sons girlfriend at the time wont bring him anymore ,....and she wont let us see him ,..again i dont know what way i wrote back to you all but im still here for now ,...

she just decided  that ,.......oh i know we could have went further about it and we would have been granted our rights to see him but my daughter died then ,.........haven't got the energy to do it now no matter how much i miss him ,......he is my sons son and i won't ever forget him ,..........but i cant go there at moment ,.......my heart is not in it ,.....so im sorry for not getting back to you but i had another crises to handle ,....plus i have a lot of other things going on in my life right now ,...to many ,......mat 1956 can i just say that your loss is no different to mine, you loved you son that much you were willing to give up your life be with him ,....so please dont  ever say that ,i feel for you so much ,.....
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Avatar universal
hi bell  i am new to this but i found this site from my sister. My son commited suicide feb 16,2008. I truly understand how you feel and i fight some days more then others.   Well for me getting threw this my believe in god and there was a reason for what happend to my son. what the reason was i do not know right now,maybe i will never find my answere.My son had alot of mentally ill diagnoses and he was in prison for 10 years but also in prison in his mind. He left behind a beautiful daughter that also lost her mom. My husband and i are raising her and she is what keeps me going,along with my family,and god.  My son is still alive today threw his daughter and brothers and sisters he left behind. I see alot of him every day and i talk to him every day.  well ill write again and hope you write back, your friend  thelma
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Avatar universal
are you still out there? You've been on this site everyday, and its been 2 days since you've posted, and im a getting a little worried. Im hoping you found something that is helping you to cope with this. I am keeping  a positive thought for you. Please let all of us know who get on this site daily that you are there. although i have alot going on in my life, with my brother getting sent to jail for 13 years, my son with major separation anxiety and loosing my job all at once, i still check this site daily to look for you,
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Avatar universal
I have found a site you may be interested in,  it is www.grief.com   this is one of the pages i've found : The five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance are a part of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the one we lost. They are tools to help us frame and identify what we may be feeling. But they are not stops on some linear timeline in grief. Not everyone goes through all of them or in a prescribed order. Our hope is that with these stages comes the knowledge of grief ’s terrain, making us better equipped to cope with life and loss.

Denial
This first stage of grieving helps us to survive the loss. In this stage, the world becomes meaningless and overwhelming. Life makes no sense. We are in a state of shock and denial. We go numb. We wonder how we can go on, if we can go on, why we should go on. We try to find a way to simply get through each day. Denial and shock help us to cope and make survival possible. Denial helps us to pace our feelings of grief. There is a grace in denial. It is nature’s way of letting in only as much as we can handle.

As you accept the reality of the loss and start to ask yourself questions, you are unknowingly beginning the healing process. You are becoming stronger, and the denial is beginning to fade. But as you proceed, all the feelings you were denying begin to surface.

Anger
Anger is a necessary stage of the healing process. Be willing to feel your anger, even though it may seem endless. The more you truly feel it, the more it will begin to dissipate and the more you will heal. There are many other emotions under the anger and you will get to them in time, but anger is the emotion we are most used to managing. The truth is that anger has no limits. It can extend not only to your friends, the doctors, your family, yourself and your loved one who died, but also to God. You may ask, "Where is God in this?

Underneath anger is pain, your pain. It is natural to feel deserted and abandoned, but we live in a society that fears anger. Anger is strength and it can be an anchor, giving temporary structure to the nothingness of loss. At first grief feels like being lost at sea: no connection to anything. Then you get angry at someone, maybe a person who didn’t attend the funeral, maybe a person who isn’t around, maybe a person who is different now that your loved one has died. Suddenly you have a structure - - your anger toward them. The anger becomes a bridge over the open sea, a connection from you to them. It is something to hold onto; and a connection made from the strength of anger feels better than nothing.We usually know more about suppressing anger than feeling it. The anger is just another indication of the intensity of your love.

Bargaining
Before a loss, it seems like you will do anything if only your loved one would be spared. “Please God, ” you bargain, “I will never be angry at my wife again if you’ll just let her live.” After a loss, bargaining may take the form of a temporary truce. “What if I devote the rest of my life to helping others. Then can I wake up and realize this has all been a bad dream?”

We become lost in a maze of “If only…” or “What if…” statements. We want life returned to what is was; we want our loved one restored. We want to go back in time: find the tumor sooner, recognize the illness more quickly, stop the accident from happening…if only, if only, if only. Guilt is often bargaining’s companion. The “if onlys” cause us to find fault in ourselves and what we “think” we could have done differently. We may even bargain with the pain. We will do anything not to feel the pain of this loss. We remain in the past, trying to negotiate our way out of the hurt. People often think of the stages as lasting weeks or months. They forget that the stages are responses to feelings that can last for minutes or hours as we flip in and out of one and then another. We do not enter and leave each individual stage in a linear fashion. We may feel one, then another and back again to the first one.

Depression
After bargaining, our attention moves squarely into the present. Empty feelings present themselves, and grief enters our lives on a deeper level, deeper than we ever imagined. This depressive stage feels as though it will last forever. It’s important to understand that this depression is not a sign of mental illness. It is the appropriate response to a great loss. We withdraw from life, left in a fog of intense sadness, wondering, perhaps, if there is any point in going on alone? Why go on at all? Depression after a loss is too often seen as unnatural: a state to be fixed, something to snap out of. The first question to ask yourself is whether or not the situation you’re in is actually depressing. The loss of a loved one is a very depressing situation, and depression is a normal and appropriate response. To not experience depression after a loved one dies would be unusual. When a loss fully settles in your soul, the realization that your loved one didn’t get better this time and is not coming back is understandably depressing. If grief is a process of healing, then depression is one of the many necessary steps along the way.

Acceptance
Acceptance is often confused with the notion of being “all right” or “OK” with what has happened. This is not the case. Most people don’t ever feel OK or all right about the loss of a loved one. This stage is about accepting the reality that our loved one is physically gone and recognizing that this new reality is the permanent reality. We will never like this reality or make it OK, but eventually we accept it. We learn to live with it. It is the new norm with which we must learn to live. We must try to live now in a world where our loved one is missing. In resisting this new norm, at first many people want to maintain life as it was before a loved one died. In time, through bits and pieces of acceptance, however, we see that we cannot maintain the past intact. It has been forever changed and we must readjust. We must learn to reorganize roles, re-assign them to others or take them on ourselves.

Finding acceptance may be just having more good days than bad ones. As we begin to live again and enjoy our life, we often feel that in doing so, we are betraying our loved one. We can never replace what has been lost, but we can make new connections, new meaningful relationships, new inter-dependencies. Instead of denying our feelings, we listen to our needs; we move, we change, we grow, we evolve. We may start to reach out to others and become involved in their lives. We invest in our friendships and in our relationship with ourselves. We begin to live again, but we cannot do so until we have given grief its time.
,( maybe this site can help).  :
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Avatar universal
Hello Bell,
As I've read your story and the posts that follow, I want to reach out across the waters and even further if necessary and wrap my arms around you to show how much I care and hurt for you. Please don't feel burdened because we hurt for you. In my case I still grieve for my son. Although his death was not r/t suicide, the hole is still there 10 years out. For 9 years he fought. From 8 y/o until the end at 17 y/o. My loss is small compared to yours. Please, Please don't give up. I know a lot of peopple would surely have a hole in their heart without you. I can't tell you that I know how you feel because I don't. What I do know is the loss of a loved one never heals, at least for me it hasn't. I am able to go on and hope that I may be able to comfort someone as I was comforted. If only one, then what we went through will not have been in vain. My pastor was also my friend. Whenever my son called for him he was there. At the end he came in from Mexico and came straight to hospital and stayed til the end. I do know there's a plan for you. Yes, your angels are looking down from above and watching over you. I wanted to take my life and came closer than I ever have. Suddenly an image of my son came across and he had the saddest look. I could not go through. I feel the sad look was because he felt it was his fault. When he died I wanted to go with him, I even asked him if he wanted me to prior. Said "no". I had to choose whether to go with him or keep a part of him here with me. Choose the good memories you have. Hold onto them. Cherish them. One day you Will be with them--in the right time. I love you and am praying for you. You are strong. You have reached out to others for help and that takes a STRONG person to ask for help. I don't know how to tell you to get to me. You probably know. I am new at this, but it has helped me tremendously. Write too much but it helps me to put feelings in words. I'll watch to see how you are doing. Please contact site at least daily and take it just an hour or less at a time if that what it takes to get through the day. Hang in there We all love you and care about you.  Madlyn
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Avatar universal
i have longed for peace in my heart ,i just dont know what its like to have it anymore ,...........thank you for your prayers ,......thank you ,............
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Avatar universal
i am just amazed at what you have wrote to me ,.....i know my two children have died and i know i did my best for them when there were alive ,......and they knew that before they died ,.......they were two good kids and would have been so good in this world towards other people ,they were so liked by everyone that knew them and all of there friends are still so sad and miss them still so very much ,.....but i am there mother they are part of me ,.....and its part of me thats allready dead ,......why do you write me when i tell you i have no more will left i me ,.....you are one of those people who really care and you dont even know me ,.......you shouldn't be wasting your time on me really you shouldn't ,......i wont lie when i say good people who care do me it harder for me to leave this world ,......that just adds to my feelings ,.........i never want to hurt anyone ,i know what its like to hurt deep down ,....so deep that i just go into a trance to make it stop ,....yes i go into my own world,....i liked that story you wrote me about that little boy ,.......i want people to help me get the strength ,.but i also want my children back ,...i miss them so much i am willing to give up my life ,.....i have two children left ,...i should have 4 ,.......my life was my children and without 4 of them i have no life ,......you are right about me been forced to accept my children's deaths ,...i dont are how long it takes i will never accept it ,.........and if my therpist ,or my family , or anybody thinks i can ,well they can all stay away from me ,.....i would rather be on my own every day than to accept it ,.......i dont know what my outcome is going to be ,but what ever happens ,.will happnt ,......i dont know what way i even wrote this , i just wrote it as it came yo me ,.....thanks for been so kind as to listen to me ,.......
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Avatar universal
hmmm, i guess i was wrong, i went back into the forum again, and there i see what i just wrote. well that was sort of stupid, considering if i couldnt find the next page, i dont know how i thought i would see how to get to the next page.  duuuuuhhhhh!  i clicked on your profile page, its nice to put a face with a name. your pictures are beautiful. i think about you alot, and wonder how you are doing. i cant even imagine what you are going through, i can only see the tears in your words. when we lose loved ones, the grief we feel is very strong, as you are feeling, the grip can get a strangle hold on us, to where we just want to give in and give up. please, just take one day at a time. dont give in and give up. have you looked into any groups where there are people in a room with you sharing their stories? it might be hard at first, but i am sure, you will find some ways to deal with this grief hour by hour, day by day. there IS hope, dont allow this grief to continue to take your life and your spirit. i know you feel dead inside, but you're not. as time goes by, your pain will ease, your sun will shine again, when acceptance within yourself has come, you are still being forced to accept what has happened because you had no choice, you may not be able to move on until you voluntarily accept what has happened. this is in no way your fault, sometimes we blame ourselves and feel like we should have known, or we should have seen signs, but alot of times we dont. we are all only human. i am still praying for you. i care about you my sister in Ireland,
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Avatar universal
bell, i see that you are also on here this early in the morning and you've posted a comment to me, but i cant find out how to get to the next page of this discussion. i have this discussion on the "watch" list so i never have trouble finding it, but now i cant get to the next page. how do i do that?
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Avatar universal
A little boy was spending his Saturday morning playing in his sandbox. He had with him his box of cars and trucks, his plastic pail, and a shiny, red plastic shovel. In the process of creating roads and tunnels in the soft sand, he discovered a large rock in the middle of the sandbox.. The lad dug around the rock, managing to dislodge it from the dirt. With no little bit of struggle, he pushed and nudged the rock across the sandbox by using his feet. (He was a very small boy and the rock was very huge.) When the boy got the rock to the edge of the sandbox, however, he found that he couldn’t roll it up and over the little wall..

Determined, the little boy shoved, pushed, and pried, but every time he thought he had made some progress, the rock tipped and then fell back into the sandbox.. The little boy grunted, struggled, pushed, shoved—but his only reward was to have the rock roll back, smashing his chubby fingers.. Finally he burst into tears of frustration... All this time the boy’s father watched from his living room window as the drama unfolded.

At the moment the tears fell, a large shadow fell across the boy and the sandbox. It was the boy’s father... Gently but firmly he said, “Son, why didn’t you use all the strength that you had available?” Defeated, the boy sobbed back, “But I did, Daddy, I did! I used all the strength that I had! “No, son,” corrected the father kindly. “You didn’t use all the strength you had. You didn’t ask me.” With that the father reached down, picked up the rock, and removed it from the sandbox.

- Author unknown
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Avatar universal
thanks tish,......thanks for all that advice,.....but ive seen all that after my son died ,and i was making a reall go of it ,....then my world came crashing down around me once more ,.....and its takeing away all my strength bit ,by bit ,i dont want to see anything again ,...it hurts to much for it to be takeing away from me again ,........i cant bear for anyway else to die that i know ,....and it will happen it has to ,..........i am urging the strength to leave my body and im willing myself to die ,.........,.....
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636136 tn?1228644380
Hi Belle, didn't know about your kiddos, omg I couldent know.. I know that your a strong girl and we dont always understand, things but I know my spirituality has kept me from going you know where.There are still things to do, see grandbabies, see places like Ireland, or Colorado lol, and you are here for us, these people on this internet site who could use your wealth of experience. there are so many of us who love you from far and near, because you care enough to write us back and I thank God for you. You are my angel.Tisha
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Avatar universal
sorry jen ,...but i dont think it is strong enought ,.....keep the  glue for someone else that might need  it ,.........i still have some heart left ,..not much, but some ,.....its holding out for now ,......ta ,
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449672 tn?1398394807
I had to find my glue...............okay,i put alittle dab on the broken pieces and put it back together..........it won't ever beat the same,it will skip a beat here and there...........but it will be okay.  :)
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Avatar universal
thanks jen ,....well if you have super glue will you please use it now !!,....use it now !!!,....
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449672 tn?1398394807
I know your heart is broken into pieces...............i have some super glue,i know it can't be completely fixed,but we can try to mend it :)   Your angels are always with you...they want you to smile again.....they found me for you :)
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Avatar universal
hi jen ,......you are allays here for me ,....lol,,,i cant seen to get away from you can i ,..lol.....chit !!if i was to take my life you would sneak up on me wouldn't you .lol...........i know you are here for me jen more than anyone i ever knew in person ,.......if i keep looking up at the sky i will bump in all the lamppost's ,....lol.......my two angles were with me in the u.k. i know that now ,...thanks to gord ,..and jen mark and Tracey  know you are been a good friend to  me ,....but my heart is still broken and there is no way of fixing it .....no way ,....and as time goes on it gets worse ,.......i feel so bare without them ,..........
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449672 tn?1398394807
Bernie......................I know you are still hurting and you always will hurt................i am glad you were born...............if it wasn't for you,Lisa and kevin wouldn't be here...neither would our little Abi and Craig...............Hold your head up high and look to the sky...there will always be two angels looking down and protecting you.........Your friend 4-ever....Jen
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Avatar universal
thank you for you comment on taking the time to answer me ,......its been 3  years since my son and 3 years since my daughter ,.....over all 6 years ,....i know everything you have said you are right about ,.....and i will be honest with you there are times i just dont want to be here, children or not ,....i have had enought at times with everyone and everything ,....this is so hard for me and i am still trying ,.....but if i had just one wish it would be to wish i was never born ,......
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