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Avatar universal

Relentless Nightmare

I hv ulcerative colitis & on Pentasa 500mg since 2 yrs. Happily married but committed the greatest sins ever: Oct10 this year I went / my colleagues to Ger on business visit & went to Koln FKK, I had 2 escorts protected vaginal w/ no defects-unprotected oral/receiver only) - 2nd nite the same but w/ 1 French kiss 1-2 min. Nov17 I had shiver and hi fever & night sweat (shiver a couple of times -fever 1st day 40C and the second 2 days 38 & then gone-had a minor fever blister on my upper lip & gone after 2 days-afterwards & 4 a period of 10 days I felt tiredness (no swollen nodes, no diarrhea, no loss of weight, no nausea, no headache, no ulcers) on 27 of Nov I had  trip also 2 Germany, that date I felt a bit hard to breathe so went to the doc(X-ray clear and gave me Senicod and Aerius since assumed it is bronchitis) On the plane my ear popping during take-off and landing.since I shaved my hair neck with a razor, I had a rash on my back neck-on z plane- wide around .5eachx6 (for 3 days). Nov30&Dec1 we also went to FKK in Ffurt and had the same as above w/o any French Kissing / oral protected. Anxiety up - I was still feeling weak during the trip due chest congestion &smoking around 22 cig per day. back on Dec2 I went to the doc regardin my chest and gave me Tavanic Antibio (1.5 pills/day for 6 days) along w/ Senicod & a CBC and Ferritin (both were normal). CBC similar to 2010 WBC 8.8 (up from 8.2). I resumed work w/ minor fatigue. Panic: yesterday 16th when I felt itchy & had very itchy pimples are pinky & almost .6 cm each (2 on my left wrist  3 at the waist & 2 on my feet. I checked my body and was shocked to death when I saw rash around17 pimples (reddish, small, and not itchy at all) upon my back (left side only spread in a 15cm diam - don't know when they occurred.
Q: what r the odds of HIV (evident symptoms but i was almost perfectly protected, or might I be one of the unluckiest 0.2% in the world. Thank you
41 Responses
936016 tn?1332765604

The odds of HIV are fantastically unlikely - I would say zero chance.

I don't know what the fever etc was but I do not believe it was / is HIV. Take a high quality accurate HIV DUO test anyway - but I do not believe you are HIV positive.

best wishes, Sean
Avatar universal
Dear Doc, sorry forgot to mention that I have been feeling healthy over the last 6-7 days with no symptoms at all except for the rash which is killing me mentally. I had a small cold last night since my son has had it, so only sneezing every 30 min or so, no I am fine (had Vitamin C effervescent).
Thanks and looking forward to hearing from you doc.
Avatar universal
Hi Dr. in effect panic struck again. after the aforementioned symptoms, on the 16th I had the urge to vomit for 3 days (2 times per day for 2 minutes), a bit of lower back pain for 2 nights (20 minutes per night), 1 night sweat moderate, noises in tummy for 2 nights with only 1 semi-diarrhea, soft burning of penis tip for two nights (1 hour per night), oral thrush mino and probably due to ulcerative colities, weight loss of 2 KG in 7 days (from 78 to 76), loss of appetite for 4 days (no swollen nodes at all, no white patches, no penile discharge, no noticed fatigue, no ulcers whatsoever). Dermatologist though explained about my sexual experience told me that it is a viral infection from the air and not of HIV type of Rash due to the quality (he has trained eye, famous in town, and he pressed the pimples)
besides, last night if felt itchy in other part and some pimples (around .5cm 'pinky color' occurd on my left bicep around 7 pimples, and 4 on my back upper shoulder but thos not itchy though same type, and 1 on my lower neck not itchy. Dr. is my hope still on as before since the additional cause of panic is that my wife had a delayed manustration of 4 days with pain and I panic about the idea if I contracted hiv from the first exposure since I slept with her once with condom after my first trip.\ Thank you Dr.
936016 tn?1332765604

I do not believe it was / is HIV. Take a high quality accurate HIV DUO test anyway - but I do not believe you are HIV positive.

best wishes, Sean
Avatar universal
Dear Doctor,
in addition to the above, I faced the following during the last 15 days: loss of appetite for 3 days - loss of weight around 3 KG in 5-6 days, a bit of lower back pain (30 min per day for 4 days), 5-6 tiny white dots not itchy below my tongue, mild night sweat (8 out of 15 days), lack of proper sleep, loss of appetite for 3 days, urge to vomit once, recurring pimples not itchy 1 or 2 at a time and disappearing in 24 hours, and slight burning on tip of Penis around 8 times and only at night with no sign of herpes, ulcer, or so. Urine color is normal, and over the last 15 days till date noises in digestive area and minor diarrhea once per day.
Ref: First sexual contact on Oct. 11 and last on Dec. 1: When I asked the concerned doc in town he told me that you had safe exposure in Germany and all the said and previous symptoms are psychosomatic. (anxiety had been hi since Nov. 17th (fever) - no swollen lymph yet since day one and no headache.
Jan. 4th: secretely took an HIV, Siph, and Hipatitis test through a virologist who said she will trace any abnormality and the next day informing me it was all negative (to be repeated in 3 months). Relief for the first time though I have been still facing digestive disorder (no pain) till date and mild sweat at night. Ultimate panic and about to faint: doc, an hour ago I looked at my chest and found some slightly raised brown dots (around 4 dark, and 7 light and smaller) and another two small dots red. Not sure if I had them before on my skin long way back or so. I'm freaking out for multiple reasons:
1 - I slept with my wife since first exposure 2 times with condom: she had faced a late menstruation of 8 days and quite itchy. Is is possible that she got infected if I have it?
2 - Today, I licked the cover of a yoghurt and folded it and after 20 seconds my 1.5 years old son licked it? is infection a possibility (saliva, not sure if there is blood and my son has growing teeth).
4 - Was the risk high since I stopped for a while Pentasa during my second trip or the risk since I had Fellatio 4 times in 2 consecutive days in first trip, or the French kissing with possible tooth brush cut (3 hours earlier).
3 - I am suffering since I had protected sex in Germany and all the symptoms are occuring. can you give me hope if such symptoms could be related to other causes: anxiety + psychosomatic + colitis + stress. Cos doc, I might live with HiV but wouldn't allow myself to survive another day if found out that I infected Wife and Child where the risk is quite low and God wouldn't allow such a wrath. I'm ruined cos I live in a country where HIV is treated as an eternal sin. Doc, you are my last hope before I crash into oblivion with all the negative thoughts and plans encompassing me.
Avatar universal
Hi Ronin,

I have exactly the same problem as you and now waiting for the time for me to take the HIV Test.

Dr. Jose has mentioned (which same as Dr. Cummings comment for you), the risk for from receiving oral sex is very very low. It did give some amount of reassurance but of course we will be still very afraid.

I think the biggest problem that we had now is not the fear but the guilt. So, with guilt, anxiety, stress, panic...I think we can go to the extreme of imagining symptoms...really. That's what my doctor told me.

I do not know if I should suggest this here. Dr Jose and Dr Cummings might not agree with this. But my doctor gave some Xanax 0.25 mg. I have been having many sleepless nights and cannot concentrate on my work. I find Xanax to be quite helpful.

I still very much feel afraid, stress, anxiety and panic...but at least with Xanax I can relax and sleep better. Until we get the test, I think these terrible feelings will not go away.

And most important, Ronin, promise your self you will not commit this mistake again. We should always remember this agony period if we are tested negative.
Avatar universal
Good day Sunnylee,
Thank you for sharing with me the never-ending agony.. I can't remember when I slept more than 4-5 hours, waking up every morning at 4-5 AM in a mild sweat with immidiate mental suffocation. Losing focus at work and my job as a category manager requires lots of devotion.
Indeed, if I were single it would have been easier and asked God if something is there let it be me and not the family and will devote the rest of my life supporting their needs. I utterly regret the moment where I was enticed by my colleagues at work to commit such deadly sins. Everytime I say I should be a positive thinker then something new happens. Yesterday I did a CBC (41 days after last so-called protected exposure / condom but BJ condomless) and the result was devastating at least for me: WBC used to be over the last years 8.2 average (June 2009 - Dec. 2011). Yesterday's it was 6.2 for the first time and Eosinophils 7.3 (max. should be 2.9). Spent the entire night reading about causes of decline in WBC and couldn't find an excuse but the HIV.. even the doctor tried to dodge the answer informing me that all he cares about is that WBC is within the range. Here in town, HIV is a terrorist in hunt and you would be deported immediately. Please Sunnylee help me with 2 questions (Hope Dr. Cummings replies to me as well but seems that he is quite busy and don't want to bother him often, he had been quite helpful).
Q1: I caugth 2 types of rash during week 2 after exposure, loss of appetite, weight loss, oral thrush, night sweat, 1 ulcer in mouth, white dots under tongue, you name it - noting that I have ulcerative colitis... took HIV test on day 34 including DUO test (don't know which generation due to secrecy) and turned out negative... Q1 is: Does Ulcerative Colitis and Pentasa lead to delay in seroconversion, HIV antibodies in blood??? This is fear 1.
Q2: WBC: what are my chances that I faced all these symptoms + WBC decline... and still I am on the safe side? The decline of the WBC+Rash during this period in addition to other symptoms.... Sorry Sunnylee, I know we are no doc but we need some boosting till we reach the judgement day (3 months post exposure). Thank you in advance.
Dear Dr. Cummings, sorry for bothering you again, but would highly appreciate that you help me out only this time... if further charges/fees are required please don't hesitate to inform me.
Many thanks in advance and God bless you all.
Avatar universal
Hi Ronin,

As you have said, we are no doctors so I can't really tell/dianose about your symptoms. But, in fact I have read in forums by Dr. Sean and Dr. Jose (trust me, I have read a lot and even posted one). From all their responses, I can conclude that it's really a waste of time and energy to look at the symptoms. Which I very much agree. As early symptoms of HIV are very common and could be caused by anything else than HIV. You said you have loss of appetite and weight loss. That wouldn't surprise me too much. I'm going through the same experience now. I think because of anxiety, who can really eat well when we keep on worrying on something? When we don't eat well, we get a bit of weight loss...that sounds logic.
And I have also read in many many...way too many forums that if your symptoms are really related to HIV, your HIV Test should have been positive already. But, you have taken a test on day 34 and it's negative, so the symptoms are really not related to HIV from my understanding from all the posts that I have read.
And I cannot confirm this as I'm not a doctor or HIV advocate but I have read in many forums (again) that Duo Test is actually same as Combo Test, which these tests belong to the 4th generation test, which they test for both antigen and antibody. If this is really the case, then I remember I read in many posts from Dr. Sean and Dr. Jose that that testing at 28 days is as good as conclusive. But, of course, I just say this based on what I have read. Further confirmation will be needed by Dr. Sean and Dr. Jose or other doctors or HIV specialists.
Test at 34 days or 7 weeks negative is really encouraging (at least for me). In my country, my doctor insist for me to test at 12 weeks mark, which I'm still waiting for as you said the Judgement Day.
As for your WBC and the symptoms that you fear about, try not to think too much about it. As I have mentioned, I read in many many forums for doctors like Dr. Sean, Dr. Jose, Dr. Bob Frascino (he has passed away, may GOD bless his soul), Dr. HHH, if your symptoms are related to HIV, your result test should be really positive already, but it is not. So the symptoms can be anything, and the main cause I think it's because of anxiety. Really, anxiety can cause panic, imaginary symptoms which I'm going through right now also.
In my previous post, I have mentioned about the relaxant medicine Xanax 0.25 mg which worked for me in reducing my anxiety. But, of course you need to take with doctor's supervision. I hope Dr. Sean and Dr. Jose will not get angry for me suggesting this. Else, you can always talk to a counsellor or a doctor at your area. Sometimes, some reassuring words really help.
I will pray for you and myself that we will be negative in our tests and stay healthy in years to come and most importantly learn from our mistakes and be a change person. A good person...

Have a great day, Ronin
Avatar universal
Hi SunnyLee,
Again lots of thanks for ur encouraging words and hope we live to see our children grow in a healthy environment. I work in a 3rd world country and the test was done secretly through a medium. Here, all HIV tests are done in one lab only belonging to the ministry. I sent my blood sample through the medium to the virologist who is his friend and when result came out I kept on asking the medium what kind of test was it with a reply that all types in attempt to track a single trace of HIV. When I asked the medium if Duo, he replied yes (but not sure till date if this is the one and not sure about the generation - will insist tomorrow). However, I don't know why I'm becoming pessimistic assuming that I already have HIV and thinking of the post-shock where we should move to our hometown and live with it as long as my wife and son are ok. I spend the day at work with a sub-zero efficiency and about to collapse before I reach Judgement day. Dr. Cummings is not replyin and felt like a bad indicator since he always tries to source out the positive news and maybe my case is hopeless. Sorry for being selfish, I wish u all the best as well, you are a kind and considerate person. Hope you tell me a bit about your case. SunnyLee, my wife might break up with me since I hv been wandering endlessly, , might lose my job due to lack of efficiency. In total dispair with only 2 hopes: familysafe and God's forgiveness.
I sometimes wish I had unprotected sex and in a 3rd world county, then it would have been justifiable... but almost protected sex (always condoms with no defects and 4 blow jobs where the chance is 0.005% and in Germany where 1 out of 100 CSW has HIV and with a very low percentage for those out of the 1% have high viral load. I swear to God no unorthodox act happened, all of the acts were short around 6-7 min, condom always on in vaginal and even BJ had been modest (around 45 secs)... only one French kiss... still can't live with the fact that I tried to be as protected as possible... honestly, if result negative I'm afraid that my weak mind might lead me to desperate result such as suicide, ... our culture is based upon families and connection and both families are quite religious and my wife is the only one married (amongst her other 3 sisters) where the family aiming high at me... beside the financial support that we provide to our both families.. SunnyLee, I am a good person in life, helping the poor, devoted to my family, religious... don't know why I was enticed to commit those 2 acts with an immediate wrath from God... I don't deserve it... I am dying slowly ...

God bless u, you deserve all the happiness in life. Will try to fetch some Xanax or so (I tried Lexotanil last night and still slept for only 5 hrs. Take care
Avatar universal
Dear Dr,
Sorry again but I'm about to collapse just for the thought that I may ruin families.
Please I'm in need of a slight hope despite the symptoms, low WBC, high Eosinophils (though Lymphocytes were maintained at 24% since forever).
Question 1: do I still have a hope of turning out Negative and please a bit of 'why' the hope is still there beside the cause (almost protected sex).
please please please Dr., God bless you.
Avatar universal
Hi Ronin,

I understand your situation completely. I''m feeling EXACTLY the same as you.
My exposure? I had 2. The first exposure unprotected oral sex and handjob. The second exposure unprotected oral sex and protected intercourse, with 2 different ladies (commercial sex workers). So, our scenarios are very much the same.
If you doubt about your test result, then probably you need another test at 12 weeks post incident. That is also a reason why I did not take any test, because I know even if the results come negative, I will still be doubting it. Probably until 12 weeks test, I will feel really confirm. I don't know...
Sometimes, I think with my negative thinking, I might keep on doubting the results even though after 12 weeks. Hopefully that will not happen.
Honestly, Ronin, I feel better talking to you too. It's like I can finally find a friend that share exactly the same experience, guilt, trauma. So this makes it easier for us to talk, I think.
You know, I was like you previously, keep on looking at the percentage risks of oral sex. 0.005% does indeed look very low...too low to be even considered as a risk. But, I don't know why I just cannot accept the low risks event. The 0.005% feels to me it's like 500%.
I know I'm not in a position to advice you, because I cannot control myself either. But, I think for a start, we shall stop searching in the internet for our scenarios anymore. I feel, the more I search, the more anxious I become. And, don't bother about the 0.005% also. Just enough for us to know, unprotected oral sex is a low risk event. And, that's it.
I believe you are a good person, Ronin. I also cannot understand why I did such sins. Really. But, I'm very very sure for myself and yourself, after this event, I'm very sure that we will not do this anymore. You agree?
I don't think Dr. Sean's no-reply is a sign of negative. I think he is probably busy. And, I might understand if why he did not reply also. I have met with many doctors to assess my risks. I have been seeing this one doctor that finally told me 'No matter how many times you have asked, my answer remains the same. It's low risk'.
I think Dr. Sean probably feels that our biggest problem now is not the problem with the HIV risk. It's our mental problems now that causes this agony. I understand that Dr. Sean cannot help in this. Nor any other doctors.
I have made up an appointment to see a counselor to help me. I don't know, probably you can try also? I hope the counselor can help.
As for your wife might leaving you, don't judge on that first. She loves you and she wants to be safe. She will forgive you provided you learn from the mistakes and will not commit the mistake again.
I just hope my 12 weeks mark will arrive very soon. After that, I think I will be improved. How long you need for you to reach 12 weeks mark from your last incident?
Till then, take care. Try not to think too much. Same goes to me as well.
Avatar universal
Hi my friend,
I believe that your result will turn out to be negative, lesser exposure than mine, probably lesser symptoms, and you had a test at 7 weeks (better odds). I will pray for you as well. I am currently following your advice of testing at 3 months and not before but I read if I have a kind of disease - in my case Ulcerative Colitis - than might take longer and for how long, I don't know and don't want to spend the year getting one test after another.
Exposure one: on Oct 10/11. and exposure two on Nov.30/Dec. 1 - If i had it then it might be during second exposure ... can't express my feelings... going int tears like a baby... sorry gotta go, can't control it for now
Avatar universal
Hi Ronin,

Actually I have never tested at 7 weeks. No. I'm waiting for my 12 weeks mark also, as what my doctor has advised me.
Like I said Ronin, it's totally pointless anymore to even compare your exposure with mine or anyone else. It's total pointless.
You see, you said your exposure is higher risk than others. Let me ask you, what if from your both first and second exposure, the ladies are not HIV positive, they are clear? Now compare with a situation from another person (imaginary person), he is having the least risk of sexual activity with a confirmed HIV infected person? Now, which situation you would rather be in? I think you would rather be in your situation, right?
So, I think it is pointless to compare. I'm trying to live my days until my 12 weeks mark in a way I don't want to compare and I don't want to even assess the risks anymore.
Your last exposure was November 30. So you can test at 23 February 2012. That's another 6 weeks to go. Time flies, my friend. At least that's what I'm telling myself everyday.
Ronin, I'm not a doctor but I really do not think your Ulcerative Colitis will effect the window period. 12 weeks is confirmed!
All the doctors that I have went through here in my country told me that, in their experiences as doctors (trust me, one doctor is near 70 this year), they have never seen any person that tested positive later negative at 6 months. Even globally, there only very very very few people that have been like that.
Now, let me tell you...I DO NOT BELIEVE you and me are belong to the category.
That's all from me now man...Take Care
Avatar universal
Hey Ronin,

Some typo errors there...:)

What I meant to say is:
All the doctors that I have went through here in my country told me that, in their experiences as doctors (trust me, one doctor is near 70 this year), they have never seen any person that tested NEGATIVE at 3 months later positive at 6 months. Even globally, there only very very very few people that have been like that.
Now, let me tell you...I DO NOT BELIEVE you and me are belong to that category.

Sorry for typo errors. You don't mind a bit of joke right in this time of uncertainties and stress. Hehe
Avatar universal
Hi my friend, sorry I had no connection for the last couple of days. Sorry got a bit drifted... you were wiser to get tested only on the 3rd month because I almost fainted from the time I took the 5-week test till the result which took place the next day. since then, though I felt a bit of relief the first day, I started imagining some stuff: on the 10th-11th-12th of Jan some recurrent mild fevers, 3 times per day and around 37.7 degrees each for around 20 minutes then said to my self due to lack of sleep, lack of water, and extreme stress. On the 6th of Jan I noticed some tiny spots and my chest (brown) and my wife said they have always been there since no time, then yesterday (Jan. 14th) I noticed light brown blotches on my upper back.. I always had multiple brown blotches on my back but not sure that they were that large (around 9 with 0.6cm in diameter)... The good news is that the virologist confirmed a couple of days ago that the test I took on Jan. 4th was Antibody and Antigen test 3rd generation. But after suspecting such blotches, spots, recurrent mild fever, I panic got elevated assuming that the antibodies are now taking place and would have been delayed due to UC/Pentasa... and now I am panicking about what might come next within the next few days (lymphnodes, headache, or so)> I know my brain might trigger them but as if I am waiting for them to occur. What the hell is going on with us SunnyLee, though things might look bright and though the doctors (2 Derma, 3 General Doctors, and Dr. Cummings) do highly believe I don't have it and most of the symptoms are triggered by stress (psychosomatic), I am still living it till date as if I have it and planning what to do next. sorry for comparing my situation to yours and you are always right. by the way, I have another business trip to Germany on the 28th of Jan till 31st and will ask my GM to extend for one day through which I am planning to visit the girl whom I suspect most (brief: on the 30th of Nov. in Frankfurt I was a bit sick out of bronchitis and Jet Lags with 2 hours sleep and my colleague insisted on going out to get laid and I kept on informing him that I need a rest but he kept on insisting and gave me a pill (viagra-like), half dragged we went to the red light district next to the Central Station... I went to the first blg, first floor, tired enough, went into a room where there was an average girl from Columbia, she gave me a protected blow job and protected vaginal sex (though condom used properly and no defect, when we finished I saw that her vagina rim was dark red but dry, don't know what it is (the next day we went to a first class FKK had 3 protected vaginal an 1 unprotected BJ but not worried about that place though risk is higher due to BJ)> regarding the Nov. 30th, the what ifs occurred: maybe the condom wasn't latex, maybe my testicles touched her vagina rim...... however, I will visit her at the end of this month and will ask her for reassurance.. and will never even hold a girl's hand anymore, swear to God. Sorry for sharing with you such details but your input will be highly appreciated..... and sorry for you being the listener most of the time... Hope we cross paths in the future after our 'crossed-fingers negative result'.
Thanks my friend,
Avatar universal
Hello Ronin,

How are you? Hope you had a good weekend.

Well, if meeting up the girl will make you feel better. I think you can.
But, from what you have told me, with her you have did protected oral sex and protected vaginal sex. And, furthermore, the condom remained intact. So, I would really think there's no risk from HIV from this. Don't you think so?
As for the condom is latex or not. It must be latex. Put it this way. The lady seems to be aware of the virus transmission through sex. That's the reason she wanted to use condom in the first place. And, nowadays, most of the condoms sold are made of latex. So, I really think there's really no risk from this event.
And, I'm getting better nowadays. Another 6 weeks to go for testing. I have been reading some positive websites lately. What I want to say is that, I believe eventually is the GOD's decision on how we going to die and what causes that.
I have read and heard from forums and my doctors that some couples have been in intercourse for few years. Despite the one of them is HIV positive, another one has not catch the virus. Wonders, you might say, but it's true.
And, then I read in another website, a local website from my country. He is a HIV positive person. And, apparently, he is someone that is working in mosque. A very holy person. So, drugs usage and sex (out marriage) is totally out! But he did go for an operation previously. He suspected that might caused HIV positive. But he is unsure on what is the cause, actually.
So, you see my friend. The virus transmission is not something concrete or firm. Some people suppose to get by definition of transmission risk but they did not. And, some people is quite impossible to get, but they did.
So, I would say luck plays important role and so does GOD's decision.
I think now, both of us should have learnt from our mistakes. And, we have changed.
Moving forward, we shall just wait for the 12 weeks mark, which is getting near as days passed by.
It's enough for us to realize the risks from our exposures are low. Some doctors would even put as ZERO.
So, we shall just wait and pray and hope. Nothing much else can be done.
And, both of us should try to not to think too much about it.
Ya, these are traumatic events in our lives. You know what, if both of us tested HIV negative after 12 weeks mark, which I'm quite confident to say so. Probably, you know, we shall meet up, man. Who knows, if you make a visit to my country or I make a visit to your country. Or we will meet up in other countries.
That's all man. Take care.
Avatar universal
Hi SunnyLee,
Hope all is well. For the first time I felt a bit positive today and your words melted like butter in my head. You are right, we should remain positive. Once I read a Tibetan saying: If a problem can be solved, then you don't have to worry about it. If a problem cannot be solved, then worrying is no good. It is now in God's hand and let's hope for the best. The only problem i am still facing is that I'm still waking up around 6 AM (sleeping around 6 hours lately / better than 4-5) but in a sweat. Probably due to anxiety... don't want to think of any symptom anymore, i'm so tired of thinking. we will focus on work and family and till then, God wills it.
Take care my friend
Avatar universal
Dear SunnyLee,
By the way, I need to ask you a crucial question. For the first time yesterday I read about the tests. It was mentioned that Antigen is better to be tested on the 28th day after possible infection. Afterwards, it will start to disappear since the antibodies will start reacting. I took the DUO on the 34th day and was wondering with a bearable panic since I took the DUO on the 34th day. In case I had it, what if the Antigen got decreased by then due to the emergence of Antibodies but the said Antibodies were still minimal by then to get detected. Hope Dr. Sean assist us in answering this question.
Otherwise SunnyLee can you recommend a couple of websites where I can ask some concerned Doctors addressing this last and only question (even if paid webs).

Thanks a lot my friend, and sorry but I'm not a keen internet browser... still read physical/active books instead of googling.


Hope Dr. Sean can assist us as well.
Avatar universal
Hello Ronin,
Well, you can post another new thread in this forum, MedHelp and Dr. Sean or Dr. Jose will answer to you. That would be chargeable.
Alternatively, you can also post in www.freedomhealth.co.uk, which also runs by Dr.Sean and Dr. Jose.
Or, you can post to www.thebody.com, which they have a number of great doctors to assist you too. I believe they will be chargeable.
I have read a lot a lot from these 3 forums, and I suggest you to do so. Because, you will find a lot of answers there and probably you do not need to post your own question. Talking about saving money...:)
You have had a DUO Test at Day 34 (That's 7 weeks after your last exposure) and the result came back negative. For me, that's very re-assuring and I can even tell now: CONGRATULATIONS! YOU ARE HIV NEGATIVE.
There are 2 reasons why I say this, like I said you can check the websites mentioned above and you will know why:
1. Dr. Sean and Dr. Jose has mentioned before, a DUO test at 28 days or after 28 days is as good as conclusive. Yes, you are correct about the P24 antigen will reach peak at around 28 days. After that, the P24 antigen will decrease. HOWEVER, according to Dr. Sean and Dr. Jose, the DUO Test can still detect the P24 antigen after 28 days. And, for a fact 34 days and 28 days, the difference is only 6 days. Be rational, you and me would agree that it's not logic that the antigens will vanish into the thin air a day after 28 days. The antigens might decrease a bit but not completely gone.
2. Another doctor, Dr. H. Hunter Handsfield, which you can find his previous posts in this MedHelp forum also has mentioned that a HIV antibody test at 6-8 weeks is as good as conclusive. His reason is that, most of the people will be tested positive (if positive) at that time.
Mind you, these 3 doctors, Dr. Sean, Dr. Jose and Dr. Handsfield are the real experts in HIV studies field. They are world-renowned and well respected and even Dr. Handsfield even published some books previously regarding to Sexual Infectious Diseases. So, in conclusion, they have dealt with a lot HIV suspects and patients, researches and exposed to new technologies regarding HIV Testings. So, their opinions do matter.
Actually, I was tempted to take a DUO test too at 28 days/4 weeks after my exposure. However, before I read the forums, I have met with my doctor in my country. And, the doctor has some what hard coded into my brain that test at 12 weeks only matter, not before that. And him being my family doctor, I have to agree and follow his advice. I still have another 6 weeks to go. So, I have decided, well I will wait for another 6 weeks to get the test.
At times, I wish the doctors in my country are as good as Dr. Sean, Dr. Jose and Dr. Handsfield, but the fact is they are not. Especially in HIV studies, far from it.
Dr. Sean, Dr. Jose and Dr. Handsfield have all mentioned before that a test at 12 weeks after exposure is a bit conservative, considering new testing methods and technologies that can really shorten the window period.
You can search in the forums and you will find what I tell you is really from the doctors.
Of course, for your peace of mind, you can and should go test again at 12 weeks mark. That should be some where in mid next month, right? I would say your result would be NEGATIVE. Don't trust me? Post a thread in any of the forums that I have told you, especially in FreedomHealth, and the doctors will tell you so.
As for your good mood nowadays, that's a great news! As for your sleeping problem, I don't know. Probably, you want to try Xanax? I'm having sleeping problems also and the doctor prescribed me with Xanax and it helps. Talk to your doctor, your doctor will able to help you for sleeping problems.
As for HIV related, well, all I can say is that you are really HIV NEGATIVE. From the words of the doctors, I really think you are. Personally, I feel the chances of you being tested positive at 12 weeks mark is so damn low that you better get worried dying from lighting strike, which of course it's very very unlikely to happen.
Again, CONGRATULATIONS to you. You might doubt my words, it's OK. Read through the forums if you have time. Post questions to the websites if you want. You will know, I'm telling you as what I have read from the doctors.
And before I go, let me share with you another thing about your ulcerative colitis. I have read in this MedHelp forum yesterday. The reply from Dr. Handsfield, mentioned that actually no other sicknesses or medications would effect the HIV Test result or prolong the window period. There are small number of recorded cases of immune deficiency that prolong the window period BUT the immune deficiency that we are talking about is very very serious illness. The patients' body cannot produce antibodies to fight viruses.
The fact, that we went wandering around and now getting anxiety and the fact that we replied on each other's posts almost on daily basis and the fact that we can still work, walk, eat, sleep (probably not very good sleep). That shows we are not in the category very serious illness. The same goes to you for ulcerative colitis. It is not a serious illness and for that reason, it will not effect your result nor prolong the window period in anyway. If we are in very serious illness condition, I think now we are lying on the bed, feeling weak.
Like I said, take a read in those forums, post questions if you want to.
You will know...that's all for now...and I can't stop this....I'm very happy for you...CONGRATULATIONS again!
Avatar universal
Many thanks for all your help ... even a close friend wouldn't be that supportive. I faced the worst life-or-death miscommunication: I managed to see the virologist yesterday to thank her that I was informed that the test was Antibody-Antigen (in other words DUO), she surprisingly stated that the HIV was only Antibody and the Antigen pertained to Hep.B.... slept only 3 hours tonight, back to anxiety and even worse since I had Diarrhea over the last 4 days (once per day) and mild fever for the last 5-6 days around 30 minutes per day... and a pimple on my nose... fatigue for the last 2 days.... SunnyLee, I'm utterly depressed and can't take it any more... I will take some Xanax or so..... can't imagine I have it, suicide thoughts, fleeing, sacrifice, .... totally lost .... sorry friend but it is a punishment that I cannot bear and all is left is prayers... all the symptoms of ARS.... it requires a miracle to be negative..... Take care my friend.
Avatar universal
by the way, I only tested at 34 days and correct me if I'm wrong it is the end of week 5 and not week 7... I wish it was week 7. However, I'm about to faint, I told you before that couple of weeks ago my 1.8yr old son licked the cover of a Yoghurt around 20seconds after I licked it myself... please help me on this one: in case I have HIV, high viral load, I already have an average tongue ulcer on the side since 3 weeks, my son's tooth are groing, then what are the chances of him catching HIV from re-licking the cover of a yoghurt pack (the cover is kind of aluminium and I licked the bottom of it whcih had some yoghurt and then folded it and put it on a couch and after around 20-40 seconds (not sure) my sone surprisingly unfolded the cover and licked it in attempt to imitate me... please SunnyLee, I don't care any more if I have HIV as long as my wife and son are safe... I panicked today cos I saw a kind of white thrush on his inner lower lip with a small cut with blood... I know logic says it could be anything specially in kids but 2 weeks after licking the yoghurt... SunnyLee, I literallly started thinking of committing suicide and how to do it in case he or my wife got it by mistake.... prayed to God and hope he gives me this one more chance not for me but for my family because they do not deserve it, they are so lovely, I am the scum of the universe who don't deserve to live..... please SunnyLee help me out with my son's case cos I searched a lot and no case is similar... they only say if there is blood in saliva and the receiver has also blood, without mentioning the air factor, or if high viral load or so... I owe you till the end of time, I swear. Thanks Sunny Lee (tried to write to Dr. Cumming in a new thread by my visa ran dry, I will try again at the end of the month).
Take care my friend
Avatar universal
Hey Ronin,

Sorry, it was my mistake. Yup, it was 5 weeks rather than 7 weeks.
However, I do think your doctor might have made a mistake? HIV Duo Test is a antibody + antigen tests. And the antigen test is actually to trace the presence of P24 antigen of HIV. I never heard of a DUO Test to trace Hepatitis B. It's not related at all.
But, anyway, we shall test for the one last time in 12 weeks mark.
And your testing did not change my view either. Being tested only on antibody for HIV test at 5 weeks still very very re-assuring. I'm very confident that you will get result NEGATIVE. A doctor in my country told me that, up to 90% of people will be tested positive around 4-5 weeks already. But, you are negative at 5 weeks. Up to 90% man! Is that re-assuring enough? For me, it is.
And Dude! You need to stay calm. Relax man.
Your symptoms are not early HIV infection symptoms man. You should check out in the websites what are the early HIV symptoms are, none of yours fit any of those. None.
And dude! Your son is 100% safe! HIV is not transmit through food sharing. You MUST be clear with this. OK? Do NOT think of this anymore. No way!
No matter what are the circumstances, the HIV virus will not able to infect others if the virus stay out of the host. That means, even if (I mean even if), when you licked the yogurt, and there's virus on it. The virus will not able to infect others anymore. Because, it's out of the host (the body). Get it?
And, your son is safe because you are NOT HIV positive. And sharing food will not transmit HIV.
Think of this, if HIV is so easily transmitted, even via sharing food. This virus will wipe out the entire planet years ago man.
So, please stay calm. In just matter of few weeks, we will go for test. And, be very sure, the results will come back NEGATIVE, NON-REACTIVE. And, we move on. Cool?
And, dude, let's not be judgemental. We did mistakes. Yeah, I'm sure you regretted and you are a changed man. I'm glad.
But calling yourself a scum is not going to help. You are not a scum. You are just a human, that did mistakes...and now regretted and changed. That's all. And GOD will forgive you as long as you are willing to change. A scum is a person that commits mistakes and keep on continuing without regret and has no intention to stop or change. That is a scum. Let's not do that. Keep calm. Stay positive.
Take Xanax to help you with sleeping. You are sleeping very less. That is the cause of all the anxiety, sickness, negative thoughts that you currently have. You need help in sleeping problems ASAP. Please go see doctor to help you with sleeping.
Avatar universal
Check out this page from FreedomHealth clinic: http://www.freedomhealth.co.uk/sexual-health/early-symptoms-of-hiv3

FreedomHealth is a clinic runs by Dr. Sean and Dr. Jose in London. You said, you have ARS symptoms? Check this. It's really none of your symptoms fit.

You have mild fever. That is not surprising man. You have been sleeping so less nowadays. HIV Fever is VERY HIGH or SEVERE FEVER. You did not tell me you have rashes. Haha. So, man... please stop scaring yourself.

Your symptoms ARE NOT related to HIV. You need to have proper sleep. That's it. Go get help for your sleeping problems. And your symptoms will go away!
Avatar universal
Dear SunnyLee,
Thank you for your usual input which has been quite positive helping me to chin up till we reach month 3. Actually, the rash was the pri)mary cause of Panic. I started the thread because of the rash which took place 14-15 days after last exposure (Nov. 30/Dec. 1). I never had a rash in the last 3 years or so and out of a sudden I had 2 kinds: the pimple-like and the acne on my back.... I went to the first Dermatologist twice and to the other one 3 times... both confirmed over and over that the pimple-like were insect bites from the mattress/air (they re-appeared and vanished within 10 days) and the acne on my back is still as is. I informed both about my exposure and still they insisted they were not HIV related... I was suspecting their judgment because I informed them about my sexual exposure that they took place in Germany and maybe their judgement was based on the fact that HIV in Germany is quite minimal and people with HIV in this town are quite few beside my low-risk. Besides, I have always had some brown patches on my upper back but when I looked at my back a week ago or so I felt that they grew bigger but my wife says they are the same. I am assuming that I am HIV free from the first exposure (Oct. 11) since I took the test at exactly 3 months from first and 34 days from second. I felt a bit better after reading your thread. I spent most of the night crying like a baby, toughest night ever in my life since I felt my son is at risk... SunnyLee, if something happens to him I will put my life to an end.. I have dedicated a full 1.8 years in rasing him with my wife and he is the main reason of my happiness... I will try to take another test before 3 months also secretely and then at 3 months. You once mentioned if ARS are related to HIV then the result will be positive so this helped get rid of the main panic which is the Rash. The other panic of my son is in God's hand and your input regarding Saliva in the air. The remaining panic which I cannot solve is the WBC first time decline in the last 2-3 years... however, and hope God forgives me, either my life will become a perfect one with a full love and dedication to my wife or son, or I will be here no more.
Thank you SunnyLee, and again sorry I'm being the one complaining about my ARS and panic and you are being a listener.. but believe me, you are the only one left... my couple of friends here got sick and tired of listening to my anxiety. God bless you and I will embrace your input: 34 days is 90% assuring - my symptoms not that related to HIV - son and saliva out of question. Hope we meet in the future when we are done with this.
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