Most likely frottage but...

[zwx415]

Doctor,
I am writing to you as I visited a swinger's club tonight while away from home. The club has a pool where I was swimming with a couple. The woman started masturbating me and then straddled me while continuing her ministrations. She then attempted to put my inside of her unprotected, which I refused (I felt her press on me and pulled away). I do not believe that  penetration occurred, based on my experience of penetration without condom with my wife, but I am, of course, worried that some degree of penetration might have taken place in the second it took me to pull away. She then proceeded to rub me against her, but concerned about the previous lapse, and what seemed to be some continued pressure against her vagina, I decided to swim away. Now, I am pretty sure that penetration did not occur either time and what happened was consistent with frottage. That being said, my mind is racing with “what ifs”, specifically a “what if” penetration did actually occur either time for a micro-second and I did not properly register it. Also, I can tell you that someone else gratefully took up my place and enjoyed unprotected sex with the woman. My issue, as you might imagine, is that I am worried about my ability to have unprotected sex with my wife.  I will of course get tested for POM at 3 months, but am concerned about the interim. Consequently, could you please give me your advice on the following?
1)Is the scenario above  consistent with frottage and thus unlikely to have carried a risk of HIV transmission?
2)Had penetration occurred for a micro second is there substantial risk?
3)May I continue, in good conscience, to have unprotected sex with my wife prior to testing?
4)How soon may I get tested with a high degree of conviction?
5)Is there any need given the scenario above for PSP?
6)Alternatively, may I move on, learn from this mistake, and put the past behind me?
Kindest Regards,
ZWX

[Edward W Hook, MD]

No change in my advice or recommendations.  EWH

[zwx415]

Dr.Hook,
Once again,thank you for your reassurance. I have spent time reading your responses to similar questions and admire your ability to put the mind of many nervous people to rest. In my case, you have convinced me to put the past behind me and move on. Thank you.
However, in order to do so definitively, I hope that you will allow me one more question, which I promise to be my last. As I mentioned in my previous post, I was in a pool at at a Swingers Club on Monday night. Post my intersection with the couple I referred to in my original post, I received unprotected oral sex to completion from a female in front of her partner. I do not believe that this represents a high risk for HIV, but am slightly concerned given that her male partner wanted to join in of her action, which I immediately refused. I had not really given this much thought until reading about the increased risk of HIV in female with bi-sexual partners on the board and furthermore the risk seemed inconsequential when compared to my earlier mishap. That being said, I just wanted to ask you if this information changed your advice to me (which I doubt) or can I still go home with a good conscience, put this night behind me, retire as a swinger ( I am obviously terrible at it) and make love to my beautiful wife? (Unprotected)
Thank you again for all your reassurance.
Zwx

[Edward W Hook, MD]

Yes.  Even women who have had sex with many partners-swingers, CSWs, etc.are far more likely than not to be HIV negative. Take care. EWH

[zwx415]

Is it still likely that the woman was HIV negative despite her behavior, which I assume has been repeated many many times during her life as a swinger?

[zwx415]

Doctor Hook,
Thank you for your response, you have provided me much reassurance. As you can imagine, I have spent much time trying to playback the scene in my mind and I remain doubtful that any penetration occurred. If it had, it would have been for the shortest of durations ( I never got the feeling of penetration but it is possible that the head might have gone in when she tried to place me inside, or later rubbed me against her lips and clitoris). However, based on your response, it would seem to me that you would agree statistically speaking, that I would have had to have been an incredibly unlucky man to get HIV from this exposure. I have therefore chosen to put the past behind me and move on.
All the very best,
Oliver

[Edward W Hook, MD]

Welcome to the forum.  This was a low, or perhaps no risk exposure for several reasons.  First, as you point out, you almost certainly did not penetrate this partner.  Second, it is unlikely that she has HIV or other STD.  Third, most unprotected exposures to infected partners do not lead to infection. Finally, because of the presence of chlorinated water in the pool, micro organisms would be killed by contact with the water.  Personally, I would not be worried and unless I was very worried, would not test.  If it would give you peace of mind however, testing is easy and testing 2-3 days after the event will rule out gonorrhea and chlamydia.  HIV is even more unlikely be cannot be tested for with accuracy until at least 4 weeks after the exposure.

In answer to your specific questions:
1.  Correct.  This was frontage and STDs, including HIV are not transmitted by frottage.
2.  No, if this occurred the risk would still be very, by small.
3.  Yes, you can continue to have unprotected sex without concern.
4.  At 4 weeks testing with a DUO test will be definitive.
5.  No, there is no reason related to the events you describe to seek PEP.
6.  Yes, I would advise you to work to move on and not worry further.

I hope my comments help.  EWH