Rubbing of penis on vagina with MENSES

[cccggg111234]

Hi doctor!! I seriously need your help and advice as this issue is seriously affecting my routine life as i cant stop thinking of it!

About 3 days ago, i make out with a girl whom i know at the bar.. I did not know her HIV status but i feeling very worried. At that point of time, she was having menses and we were making out in the bathroom. I did not penetrate her however, we were kissing and i was rubbing my unerected penis on her vaginal. My penis was not circumcised but my foreskin was being pulled to the back. I have read multiple post and i realised doctor always commented that no penetration == no HIV transmission. However, as the inner foreskin of my penis is also the mucous membrane. My question is that,
1) if the menses blood infected with HIV came into contact with my inner foreskin(without penetration), will i be infected with HIV.
2) if there is pre-cum fluid at the tip of my penis, will this rubbing action without penetration caused any transmission when it come into contact with the infected mensus?
3) if the infected menses blood were to stain onto my inner foreskin for a period of time(Without penetration), will the mucous mebrane absorb the HIV virus, thus causing me to be infected?

I am getting really worried and regretful as it was really an act of impulsiveness. Please advice me if there is any risk of contracting HIV. appreciate all your help!!! THANK YOU!!

[Edward W Hook, MD]

As you probably know, Wikipdia is not always correct.  I told you that the skin of inner portion of a uncircumcized forskin is not mucous membrane.  I find myself why you would ask me to repeat myself.  

This is called frottage. No one has ever gotten HIV in this way. You will not be the first.  The reasons are multiple and too complex to expand upon.  

No, while HIV does die quickly on exposure to the environement, it is becuase surface contamination does not lead to transmission of HIV.  

Let's stop with the "why not" quesitons.  You are not at risk. Time for you to move on.  EWH

[Edward W Hook, MD]

This will be your last answer.  Further answes will be deleted without comment:

1.  Theoretically you might be at risk for hepes or syphilis if she had these infections.  Infection however would be very rare.  If you do not develop a sore on your penis within 3 weeks of the event, you have nothing to worry about.  

2.  See above.

3.  No,

This ends this thread.  EWH

[Edward W Hook, MD]

Welcome to the HIV Prevention forum.  I see you have asked the same question at the HIV Prevention Community site. I agree with the information that Vance has provided to you.  Please realize the your questions starts with the possibility that the woman you encountered had HIV- this  is unlikely unless you have some reliable information that she was.  Furthermore, you question indicates a misunderstanding of the effect of your being uncircumcised.  The inner surface of your foreskin is NOT a mucous membrane. it is an epithelial surface which is different from some of the other epithelial surfaces but that does not make it a mucous membrane.  With that as background let me address your specific questions:

1.  No, no risk without penetration. That she was menstruating or that the inner surface of your foreskin was exposed does not change this.
2.  No, still no risk to you.
3.  No still no risk with prolonged exposure under the foreskin.

Bottom line, no risk.  Rubbing, her menstruation or your uncircumcised status do not change this.

I hope this comment is helpful to you.  You have nothing to worry about and do not need to be concerns. Testing related to the events you describe would be a waste of time.  EWH

[cccggg111234]

Hello Doc.. Thank you for your replies! :)

[cccggg111234]

Dear Doc EWH, i deeply apologise for asking you to repeat. I just want to be more sure and clarify my doubts as i am afraid. Sorry if you feel insulted. By the way, thank you for your advice and information that you have provided me. I feel much better now. I've got last few questions that i am very very curious about and i hope you wouldn't mind answering me. 1) Through rubbing, there is no HIV risk, however, there is a risk of contracting STD am i right to say so? 2) After how long after my last exposure will i know that i am safe from contracting any STD? 3)Lastly, if the mensus blood were to stain on my penis head for long, does it mean that the blood is staining on my mucous membrane and thus causing infection? Thanks!

[cccggg111234]

Hi Doctor EWH! Thank you for your prompt replies and explanation. The lady was a bar girl readily available for anyone to paid for sex. That is why i am very worried of her hiv status. Please pardon me for my lack of knowledge. I thought the inner foreskin was a mucous membrane as wikipedia states that "the inner foreskin is a mucous membrane like the inside of the eyelid or the mouth". That is why i am very very worried as my inner foreskin is totally exposed to her vagina with mensus and secretion fluid. Is what stated in wikipedia true?

Doctor, can you also educate me on point 2, why is it that rubbing of my penis head with pre-cum fluid on her vaginal(with mensus and secretion fluid) doesn't caused any HIV transmission?

Also, for point 3, is it because when the mensus blood got expose to the air, the HIV virus in the blood got destroy instantly?

I really appreciate your kind attention doctor. Looking forward to your reply! Thank you!!