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A few clarifications in regards to protected sex.
Hello everyone, first off allow me to apologize for the long-winded approach I've taken for this post, I assure you all, that I don't intend to waste anyone's time, I just want to put my facts out there on the table. I'm writing this in the hopes that some of the more experienced members within the forum can put some of the doubts in my mind to rest.
The following questions are directly correlated to an incident I had nearly 6 weeks ago. I'm single, and reside in Malaysia where unfortunately the prevalence of HIV amongst the Heterosexual population is becoming more and more prominent. For the first time in my life, I had protected vaginal & oral sex with a CSW at one of the spa's here, I brought along my own condoms -- Durex Extra Safe condoms which apparently are slightly stronger, or so the company claims. Anyhow, it was a separate condom for oral, then another one for the vaginal which lasted for about 10 minutes or so, I didn't finish in the condom, and so towards the end, she removed the condom and gave me a handjob. According to my observation, the condom NEVER broke during the oral & vaginal; I say this confidently because when I looked at it after the vaginal, it looked slightly wet and wrinkly BUT definitely intact. I've based this on the fact that it's been repeated many times on here how in the circumstances that condoms do break, it will definitely be noticeable, so that's my encounter.
As for the queries I have irking me at the back of my mind; for the last month or so I've been following both the Community as well as the Expert forum on HIV prevention and would be grateful if the following could be clarified for me by Teak or Lizzie Lou perhaps. I'd be most grateful :)
(1) I've noticed that on the expert forum, when a query in regards to a single exposure of protected sex is posted, either one of the Doctors mention how the chances of contracting HIV from the encounter are extraordinarily low. On occasions they have used phrases such as 'Zero risk or close to it', or words like 'Minuscule'. It's always a strong No, however rarely do I read them stating it to be pointblank Zero risk. On the other hand, here on the Community forum, erudite members like Teak, Lizzie Lou and so on, often pointblank state that there's Zero Risk in context to protected sex, and that testing isn't required (which even the Doctors say). My question is why exactly is there this difference in approach to answering? I understand that for the doctors there are legal & ethical ramifications behind this all, however I often wonder as to why they never usually state it to be Zero risk, if it INFACT was an exposure with consistent & proper use of condoms?. This plays in my mind, and worries me from time to time because of my own situation. Is there in fact a possible risk even with proper protection? Can I really just forget about this and not get tested, and move on with my life?
(2) I thank you guys for any input you may provide in advance. My last query within the banner of protected sex that's got me ticking is how online, there's just so much of conflicting amounts of information. I often find myself confused as to which source is more credible than the other. MedHelp has by far been the best thing I've found in terms of educating oneself on matters of HIV, however I often see other sources stating the latex condoms can't be called Zero risk in terms of transmission, and on the other hand, I see many of the more experienced members here state it to be Zero Risk pointblank. Can perhaps Teak or anyone shed any light on this? perhaps you could point me in the right direction in regards to credible sources of information, if anyone doesn't mind. Thank you once again.
The following questions are directly correlated to an incident I had nearly 6 weeks ago. I'm single, and reside in Malaysia where unfortunately the prevalence of HIV amongst the Heterosexual population is becoming more and more prominent. For the first time in my life, I had protected vaginal & oral sex with a CSW at one of the spa's here, I brought along my own condoms -- Durex Extra Safe condoms which apparently are slightly stronger, or so the company claims. Anyhow, it was a separate condom for oral, then another one for the vaginal which lasted for about 10 minutes or so, I didn't finish in the condom, and so towards the end, she removed the condom and gave me a handjob. According to my observation, the condom NEVER broke during the oral & vaginal; I say this confidently because when I looked at it after the vaginal, it looked slightly wet and wrinkly BUT definitely intact. I've based this on the fact that it's been repeated many times on here how in the circumstances that condoms do break, it will definitely be noticeable, so that's my encounter.
As for the queries I have irking me at the back of my mind; for the last month or so I've been following both the Community as well as the Expert forum on HIV prevention and would be grateful if the following could be clarified for me by Teak or Lizzie Lou perhaps. I'd be most grateful :)
(1) I've noticed that on the expert forum, when a query in regards to a single exposure of protected sex is posted, either one of the Doctors mention how the chances of contracting HIV from the encounter are extraordinarily low. On occasions they have used phrases such as 'Zero risk or close to it', or words like 'Minuscule'. It's always a strong No, however rarely do I read them stating it to be pointblank Zero risk. On the other hand, here on the Community forum, erudite members like Teak, Lizzie Lou and so on, often pointblank state that there's Zero Risk in context to protected sex, and that testing isn't required (which even the Doctors say). My question is why exactly is there this difference in approach to answering? I understand that for the doctors there are legal & ethical ramifications behind this all, however I often wonder as to why they never usually state it to be Zero risk, if it INFACT was an exposure with consistent & proper use of condoms?. This plays in my mind, and worries me from time to time because of my own situation. Is there in fact a possible risk even with proper protection? Can I really just forget about this and not get tested, and move on with my life?
(2) I thank you guys for any input you may provide in advance. My last query within the banner of protected sex that's got me ticking is how online, there's just so much of conflicting amounts of information. I often find myself confused as to which source is more credible than the other. MedHelp has by far been the best thing I've found in terms of educating oneself on matters of HIV, however I often see other sources stating the latex condoms can't be called Zero risk in terms of transmission, and on the other hand, I see many of the more experienced members here state it to be Zero Risk pointblank. Can perhaps Teak or anyone shed any light on this? perhaps you could point me in the right direction in regards to credible sources of information, if anyone doesn't mind. Thank you once again.
"At one point during sex, i found out that the condom had slipped outside the vagina and I have been having unprotected sex"
did you miss this in the above post that you pasted?
#1) you had PROTECTED sex
#2) you are suffering from anxiety, not hiv
#3) consider yourself reported!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS NOT A PSYCHOLOGICAL COUNSELING SERVICE.
i'm done...
did you miss this in the above post that you pasted?
#1) you had PROTECTED sex
#2) you are suffering from anxiety, not hiv
#3) consider yourself reported!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS NOT A PSYCHOLOGICAL COUNSELING SERVICE.
i'm done...
Lizzie, Like I told Teak, there'll be no more posts from me now. I just needed an opinion on what I had copy/pasted above. He says a number of things there that are contradictory to protected sex being zero risk. I just need you and Teak to shed your insight on his professional opinion in that scenario, he states explicitly that this person wasn't completely free of risk, and he even says that asides for reasons of anxiety -- 'just to be completely sure', to get tested. Why so? I will not churn out anymore anxiety-laden queries after this, you have my word Teak & Lizzie. I just want to understand the aforementioned.
* Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to action by MedHelp. Conclusive negative results or a no-risk situation will be based up the criteria MedHelp’s doctors. Action will be taken as follows:
* After excessive posting, a warning will be issued by MedHelp
* Continuing to post regarding the negative result / no risk situation will result in a 3 day suspension
* Continuing to post upon your return will result in a permanent ban.
* After excessive posting, a warning will be issued by MedHelp
* Continuing to post regarding the negative result / no risk situation will result in a 3 day suspension
* Continuing to post upon your return will result in a permanent ban.
I understand that I've been excessive in my posts as well as my anxieties Teak, but please I promise I WILL NOT under any circumstances post again after this. Just please comment on the above post in regards to what I pasted, I just want to understand the aforementioned. Please don't report to the administration, I won't post after this, I assure you, I just need to know what you make of Dr.Hook's advice above in regards to a protected incident, that's all. I assure I won't post anymore after this. Thank you in advance for everything Teak. Please don't report me.
* Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to action by MedHelp. Conclusive negative results or a no-risk situation will be based up the criteria MedHelp’s doctors. Action will be taken as follows:
* After excessive posting, a warning will be issued by MedHelp
* Continuing to post regarding the negative result / no risk situation will result in a 3 day suspension
* Continuing to post upon your return will result in a permanent ban.
* After excessive posting, a warning will be issued by MedHelp
* Continuing to post regarding the negative result / no risk situation will result in a 3 day suspension
* Continuing to post upon your return will result in a permanent ban.
I wanted you to check this out, any thoughts? This is actually what I was referring to when I first posted my queries on the forum, I found this on the expert forum, as you and so many of the others say 'protected sex' is zero risk, but it's professional opinion like this that worries me Teak. Apparently according to the doctor, he actually states here that this person isn't without risk, i.e therefore even protected sex can't be called zero risk, can it? Doctor Edward then even recommends testing to him for both re-assurance as well as to be "completely sure", why so if protected sex (even with a slight amount of slippage) is zero risk? He states that the risk is 100th of 1%, but then why recommend testing after that if it's essentially zero risk? I just need to understand why there's this degree of difference in professional opinion from case to case in terms of protected sex incidents amongst the doctors?
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Dear Doctor,
Thank you for taking the time to clarify a lot of things on HIV. I have almost read all the questions on the forum and realize that my question here was somehow been answered before, however, the fear and agony I am living in right now is crippiling my everyday day life. I am 40 year old hetrosexual white male circumsised, who foolishly picked up a prostitute on July 4th in one of the bars in Beirut-Lebanon. I had insertive vaginal sex using a condom. At one point during sex, i found out that the condom had slipped outside the vagina and I have been having unprotected sex, not sure how long though (I was drunk the details of that night are somehow sketchy). I immedietly put a new condom on and contiunued. During the incident, I didn't have any blisters, cuts or open wounds or any STDs. There was no blood anywhere on my penis.My nightmare has began and I have been having sleepless nights. I am married with 2 children and fearful of what might come. Please let me know what my risks are? Should I get tested? Should I refrain from Sex with my wife?
Doctor's Answer
by Edward W Hook, MD
Jul 09, 2008 03:40PM
As you are aware that we answer questions like yours regularly, you won't be surprised to see an answer similar to those that that others have received. To give you the "punch line" first, you have very little to worry about. You had a single exposure to a commercial sex worker (CSW). Your chances of having gotten HIV from this exposure are extraordinarily low. Here's why:
1. Chances are your partner did not have HIV. Most CSWs do not. The prevalence of HIV in the Middle East, even among CSWs is quite low
2. You were partially protected
3. Your chance of getting HIV and you were totally unprotected and if she was infected is less than one in 1000 per exposure.
Are you totally without risk? Of course not. Was this a particularly high risk exposure? No. When you put all of these facts together, your chances of being infected from the exposure you describe is less than one 100th of 1%. So what should you do? First of all, don't worry, at least as much as your guilt will permit. Should you get tested, probably, both to assure yourself and to be completely sure. My advice however would be to wait until 6 weeks to do so at which time over 95% of tests that are going to be positive will be and therefore you will be able to have faith in the result (negative) when you get them. Should you abstain in the interim? - it certainly is the safest approach but, as I've already indicated, the odds are in your favor. Hope this helps. EWH
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Dear Doctor,
Thank you for taking the time to clarify a lot of things on HIV. I have almost read all the questions on the forum and realize that my question here was somehow been answered before, however, the fear and agony I am living in right now is crippiling my everyday day life. I am 40 year old hetrosexual white male circumsised, who foolishly picked up a prostitute on July 4th in one of the bars in Beirut-Lebanon. I had insertive vaginal sex using a condom. At one point during sex, i found out that the condom had slipped outside the vagina and I have been having unprotected sex, not sure how long though (I was drunk the details of that night are somehow sketchy). I immedietly put a new condom on and contiunued. During the incident, I didn't have any blisters, cuts or open wounds or any STDs. There was no blood anywhere on my penis.My nightmare has began and I have been having sleepless nights. I am married with 2 children and fearful of what might come. Please let me know what my risks are? Should I get tested? Should I refrain from Sex with my wife?
Doctor's Answer
by Edward W Hook, MD
Jul 09, 2008 03:40PM
As you are aware that we answer questions like yours regularly, you won't be surprised to see an answer similar to those that that others have received. To give you the "punch line" first, you have very little to worry about. You had a single exposure to a commercial sex worker (CSW). Your chances of having gotten HIV from this exposure are extraordinarily low. Here's why:
1. Chances are your partner did not have HIV. Most CSWs do not. The prevalence of HIV in the Middle East, even among CSWs is quite low
2. You were partially protected
3. Your chance of getting HIV and you were totally unprotected and if she was infected is less than one in 1000 per exposure.
Are you totally without risk? Of course not. Was this a particularly high risk exposure? No. When you put all of these facts together, your chances of being infected from the exposure you describe is less than one 100th of 1%. So what should you do? First of all, don't worry, at least as much as your guilt will permit. Should you get tested, probably, both to assure yourself and to be completely sure. My advice however would be to wait until 6 weeks to do so at which time over 95% of tests that are going to be positive will be and therefore you will be able to have faith in the result (negative) when you get them. Should you abstain in the interim? - it certainly is the safest approach but, as I've already indicated, the odds are in your favor. Hope this helps. EWH
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Yes it applies to children. Enough of this, seek professional mental help. Your HIV phobia is way out of hand.
Hi Teak, I wanted to ask you something in regards to transmission. I understand that between adults, skin-to-skin contact poses no risk what so ever, but do the same rules apply to Children? Toddlers?. Something has gotten me a bit worried. I have a 5-month old nephew staying with me these days, and I often carry him around during the day, kiss him on his head, cheeks sometimes. He's doesn't really have any teeth yet but he's definitely teething, and is at a stage where he loves to put things in his mouth. The other day, I was only wearing a vest on top and was carrying him around, I'm not to sure but I think he may have momentarily tried to suck on my left shoulder for a bit. I wouldn't be concerned, but I've had sensitive skin since my early teens and have tiny pimples from time to time on my upper torso section (there weren't any fresh cuts or anything). But I'm worried, that with a substantial weaker immunity of a toddler like my nephew, he may have been exposed if God forbid I got HIV from that CSW incident six weeks ago? I mean what if small traces of blood from a pimple came into contact with his mouth? Are children more susceptible than adults in that respect?
Extra safe? Any latex or polypropylene condom is good if used consistently and correctly.
So it's safe to assume that after the vaginal act, if the condom was rolled off by the CSW with ease, that the condom was indeed intact, and DID NOT fail right?. Also, are extra safe condom actually any safer? I mean, on the box they state them as "Slightly thicker" condoms, does all that really play into stronger protection against HIV?
Yes durex is a recognized brand in the US. If the condom failed, they aren't easy to roll down.
Teak, just wanted to clarify something with you. How sure can someone be that if a condom broke during intercourse, they would know about it? And also I wanted to ask you if you know anything about the effectiveness of "extra safe" condoms outside the US? Like for instance here in South East Asia?. Is Durex a recognized brand in the US? They were brand new, and I checked the expiry on them as well.
You can't diagnose HIV by symptoms and the symptoms you have stated are not indicative of ARS alone. The only way to know your status is by testing. Take your gf with you and get tested together and put this behind you.
Your symptoms are not indicative of ARS. If you have a concern get tested, for both HIV and STDs.
So you're saying it's a possibility that i might have H.I.V or an STD because it's not related to ARS? or what?
So you're saying it's a possibility that i might have H.I.V or an STD because it's not related to ARS? or what?
Your symptoms are not indicative of ARS. If you have a concern get tested, for both HIV and STDs.
Hey teak, im sorry to bother you, I no people drive you krazy about H.i.V contraction buti really need your help teak. Please
respond to this note, m ....this is the story, i am dating a girl that i've been with for 16 months, who's had alot of sexual partners in the past. not too many, she wasn't a hooker or anything but she's had sex with other guys, I am still with her today. Teak a few months ago, after sexual intercourse with her (unprotected), I started having diarrhea for a while, and noticed a red bump in my anus, sorta like a pimple. was pain ful for a li lbit than went away after a few days so i got releaved. But teak, as time went by, maybe a month or 2 later, (diarrhea still playing a roll, even until today i still have diarrhea), i noticed that my neck was getting stiff, like it felt like it was stingy, and turned a lil red, not too red, but a lil bit, im worried b/c on the h.i.v symptoms thing, they said, swollen lymph nodes as one, my neck had this lil stingy feeling and was a lil red for only 4-5 days, and went away, than maybe came back a lil later but went away again, teak...until today sir, i still have diarrhea and my nose has been feeling a lil awkard...like i cant explain it..it doesnt feel more of a stuffy nose, feels like more of an irritated nose, like it's not a running nose...just feels weird...like i caught something....than months later, i noticed a rash which was a week ago, that was itchy and looked more of an insect bite, a mosquito bite, but was real itchy...until today, i still get dirrahea, since the day i had that pimple sorta thingy in my anus months ago, but it's not diarrhea everyday, every other day i have hard bowel movements, i dono why....so im worried. i am still with the same girl today, as we are in love but i am worried and dont know waht to do, i also tend to sweat here n there wen i wake up from sleep, my shirt gets wet sometimes, every week or so, i dono what to do teak, i am scared ******** to take a test and find out i am positive. constant diarrahea for MONTHS, after the pimple in my anus...night sweats here n there...my nose feeling irritated here n there...the rash that got on my arm months after all the other symptoms, and the rest that i explained, please teak help me and respond and give me advice on what to do, I just really need your advice, i can't even sleep cus all i think about is my family, i have 3 brothers and a sister and 2 loving parents who would be depressed if i caught anything, please help me teak..
respond to this note, m ....this is the story, i am dating a girl that i've been with for 16 months, who's had alot of sexual partners in the past. not too many, she wasn't a hooker or anything but she's had sex with other guys, I am still with her today. Teak a few months ago, after sexual intercourse with her (unprotected), I started having diarrhea for a while, and noticed a red bump in my anus, sorta like a pimple. was pain ful for a li lbit than went away after a few days so i got releaved. But teak, as time went by, maybe a month or 2 later, (diarrhea still playing a roll, even until today i still have diarrhea), i noticed that my neck was getting stiff, like it felt like it was stingy, and turned a lil red, not too red, but a lil bit, im worried b/c on the h.i.v symptoms thing, they said, swollen lymph nodes as one, my neck had this lil stingy feeling and was a lil red for only 4-5 days, and went away, than maybe came back a lil later but went away again, teak...until today sir, i still have diarrhea and my nose has been feeling a lil awkard...like i cant explain it..it doesnt feel more of a stuffy nose, feels like more of an irritated nose, like it's not a running nose...just feels weird...like i caught something....than months later, i noticed a rash which was a week ago, that was itchy and looked more of an insect bite, a mosquito bite, but was real itchy...until today, i still get dirrahea, since the day i had that pimple sorta thingy in my anus months ago, but it's not diarrhea everyday, every other day i have hard bowel movements, i dono why....so im worried. i am still with the same girl today, as we are in love but i am worried and dont know waht to do, i also tend to sweat here n there wen i wake up from sleep, my shirt gets wet sometimes, every week or so, i dono what to do teak, i am scared ******** to take a test and find out i am positive. constant diarrahea for MONTHS, after the pimple in my anus...night sweats here n there...my nose feeling irritated here n there...the rash that got on my arm months after all the other symptoms, and the rest that i explained, please teak help me and respond and give me advice on what to do, I just really need your advice, i can't even sleep cus all i think about is my family, i have 3 brothers and a sister and 2 loving parents who would be depressed if i caught anything, please help me teak..
Hi Teak, I've spent the entire day trying to convince myself that I wasn't at risk of contracting HIV from the incident six weeks ago, and it had been working out fine for the last few days, but now I feel like I'm going under pressure again. What if the condom had a small rip in it that I didn't notice at the end of the vaginal act? What if the condom was faulty to begin with? I mean are there any facts & figures you can tell me that'll assure me within my mind that I wasn't at risk for HIV and that I don't need testing? Have you ever come across anyone who used a condom correctly and yet was infected after a single exposure?
I hope the hurricane season remains relatively timid this time round for everyone in Florida :)
ok now...we are stretching things here...lol. dont go "looking" for those ifs, ands, and buts. you had protected sex...PERIOD!!!!!
if you NEED to worry about something...worry about me living in florida and the hurricane season is supposed to be a BIG one.
move on :)
if you NEED to worry about something...worry about me living in florida and the hurricane season is supposed to be a BIG one.
move on :)
I just wanted to clarify something with you in regards to that incident I had with the CSW six weeks ago. Since this was my first time with a CSW, I ejaculated in merely a few minutes after she initiated protected oral sex, she then removed & disposed off that condom and asked me to go clean myself. Then just before the vaginal sex, I was only semi-erect, and so in that state she placed a condom on me carefully. She then proceeded onto giving me protected oral for a minute or so just so that I get more aroused. I immediately then proceeded to penetrate her. Like I said though, when I looked down after the act, the condom looked intact. Does the fact that she performed oral and then we proceeded onto vaginal all on the same condom compromise my protection in any which way? Thanks, I just needed to run this by you for clarification.
I believe you're right. I reckon I need to speak to a professional counselor about this stuff now. Thank you Teak, and I apologize if I ever caused any inconvenience to you in regards to my anxiety-laden queries. Kind Regards.
Teak, after reading what you've said about this matter, I'm going to wholeheartedly attempt to move on with my life without allowing my anxieties to get the best of me. Once more, I can't express to you how much of a great help you've been to me and many others I presume. However before I leave, I have this one last query in regards to HIV testing. Asides from the CSW incident I had six weeks ago, I've only had 2 sexual partners within my entire life, both cannot be considered high-risk. One of whom, I am confident wasn't an intravenous drug user and was a virgin, i.e. I am sure she was HIV negative, so that's that. The other one whom I broke up with about a year ago was a concern in my mind. I got in touch with her again recently, and she assured me that she did not have HIV, however me being the anxious beaver, went into a state of denial and started going a bit overboard with my anxieties. She went and got tested for HIV 1&2 screening at a reputable hospitable here and it came back negative. Her last sexual exposure before me was in 2006. She isn't on any medication what so ever either. Is there a chance that her results were a false negative, or are they completely conclusive?.
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