Panicking about possible unproteced anal sex while passed out

[Andla]

Hello.  I am a gay man in my late 30s.  11 days ago I met a 25 yo guy in London on Grindr who I invited over to my hotel to fool around.  I don't know if he was gay or bi or straight (I thought either of the latter two).  I was very drunk and he had some marijuana on him, which we smoked before we retired to my room.  I remember giving him a blowjob (don't remember him ejaculating) and possibly kissing him, but I was pretty much out of it, so I passed out and don't know how the night ended.  The last thing I remember is that he went out to have a cig, I gave him the key to come back to the room, I covered myself and fell asleep.  I may remember how he came back to the room, but not sure.  He stayed in my room and left in the early morning.  He mentioned something about him ejaculating (I thought it was because he was not really into sex in the morning) and me falling asleep.  When I woke up the next morning he was rather nice, we spent time touching each other and trying to sleep for an hour and then he left.  I got a scare that he may have engaged in anal sex with me while I was asleep or very drunk (although I think I'd have remembered something).  I did not feel any discomfort or pain in my anus the next day or the day after and spent a carefree 2 days in London.  I even checked the sheets and the covers in my bed to see if there were any marks that anal sex was involved. There was nothing.  My anus started aching 3 days after that night and I am now freaking out that he did engage in anal sex with me.  I have these visions that he penetrates me.  The pain (more like a discomfort than pain) in my anus still comes and goes, and I am planning to go to a doctor tomorrow, but I am afraid to hear that I have a tear or something and that he caused it.  And if he did penetrate it, I am starting to fear that he may have given me HIV, perhaps even knowingly (I apologize if I sound horrible).   I am thinking about an HIV test in 4 weeks but am scared to do it.  I can't help thinking that he had unprotected anal sex with me and ejaculated inside which would be the highest risk I believe.  Sometimes I even think that he brought someone into my room to have sex with me while I was out of it.  On the other hand, I am trying to calm myself down and tell myself that there were no signs and I just fell asleep and I am not even sure how one can have sex with a passed out person (especially since he penis was very large) or that most people simply won't do that.  I know you can't reconstruct the night for me and it is my fault, but is it all in my head?  I keep obsessing about it and don't know what to do.  But it helped just to get it all out and share my thoughts.  They are consuming me.  Thank you.

[Andla]

Hi.  It has been 28 days since my encounter.  I took a rapid (blood from finger) test today, and it was negative.  I asked which generation it was, and the guy was not sure whether it was 3rd or 4th generation.  How reassured should I be after 4 weeks?   Thank you.

[GuitarRox]

I'd call back and ask if it was 3rd or 4th generation.  The guy seeming unsure is kind of odd unless they are an untrained tech.  And perhaps a supervisor would know.  This would be important for a clinic or doctor's office to know.  So, you can certainly call back and get an answer.  Does the paper work you likely received say the name of the test? They normally do too.  Most places, depending on your location, use 4th generation tests these days.  Your risk was very low and your negative won't change but I think you should call and find out from the clinic if it was indeed 4th generation.

[Andla]

I called back, and the guy was still unsure and said that it was probably 3rd generation.

[GuitarRox]

Well, it's unfortunate you went to a numbskull clinic that doesn't provide information to people about what test they are giving.  Your two options are then to A. go to another clinic or doctor and ask for a 4th generation test and take it again or B. wait until 12 weeks after and retake it as all tests are accurate at that point. But sincerely, your risk was very low. Super low.  Next to nothing.  Your result will remain negative, I'm sure.

[GuitarRox]

I do also read in the title that this was a 'possible' exposure.  Please do not allow guilt, anxiety or obsessive thought make you irrational.  Work on anxiety if that is the case because that is a treatable condition.

[Andla]

Thank you for your input GuitarRox.  Regarding the test. It was not a clinic and the guys are not doctors.  They are social workers financed by a development programme sponsored by one of the U.S. aid agencies.  So, I would not call them a 'numbskull clinic' :-).  They just do the tests and then refer those who need it to a state clinic.  I called again and asked if they were using a 4th generation tests, and the guy confirmed that they weren't.  He also said that they use different types of test, which is why he could not say anything specific apart that he thought it was 3rd generation.  Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of going to a different place to ask for a 4th generation tests, as these establishments that provide free rapid tests are the only places where one can get tested in the city I live in.  There are only 3 in my city.  Otherwise I believe one can only get tested in a hospital where they draw blood from one's vein and the results take a few days.  I am not even sure they would know which generation of tests they use.
Regarding my situation.  Yes, you are absolutely right that it is a 'possible' exposure, but the only way I could deal with the anxiety and obsession that something might have happened was to get tested.  I thought I was being responsible here.  I did read on various resources that even 3rd generation tests are to an extent accurate after 28 days, so that knowledge at least alleviated some of my anxieties.  'Guilt, anxiety or obsessive thoughts' are of course a separate issue, but testing is knowing for sure.  Once again, thank you for the advice.  At least, after this test I am not letting the obsessive thoughts eat me up, and I hope that today's result is a good indicator that what I imagined happened never did.  So, when I asked how reassured I should be after the test I only meant to ask how accurate 3rd generation rapid tests are after 4 weeks; and I was in no way seeking reassurances as to what did or did not happen that night...

[GuitarRox]

Truthfully, it is not good practice that a location that administers tests to patients can not identify the test.  Someone there should know.  You should have received paper work.  There is a supervisor there that will know.  Reason tells us this.  You are telling me they just randomly test people without putting a name on the test, providing any type of documentation?  I don't mean to doubt you but I also know you are highly anxious and this seems to cloud rational thinking for many.

So, since you have no options, there is nothing else anyone can do for you until 12 weeks pass and you take the final test you feel you need.  Since this all seems to be a situation that has grown in proportion with anxiety, I would say it is very likely that your result will not change of negative.  You probably never had a risk. Worst case scenario it was very low.  And you've tested negative a month out.  That should reassure you in and of itself.  

[Andla]

No, they do not provide any documentation.  They just test people, and then refer those who test positive for anything (they always test everyone for HIV, syphilis and hepatitis B) to state clinics for further testing and treatment as only state clinics can treat these in my country.  I am not even sure there is a supervisor at these particular places.  I am sorry that this sounds strange to you, and I am in a way sad that this is how things are here, but on the other hand I am grateful that these places exist where one can get tested anonymously and know the result immediately as I don't think state clinics offer rapid tests.  They do say that the result is only accurate as far as 3 months out for the HIV test, which is why I came here to ask if they were just being too cautious and if the 3rd generation can pick up the infection earlier.  Anyway, whatever the accuracy of this test was it was important for me to do it, and I got your message that I should repeat it in 8 weeks if I continue obsessing about the encounter which I hope I won't.  I am very grateful for nice people on this website who provide advice to people like me.  Thank you.

[mike_no]

It seems you are imagining the whole anal sex part because it is logical to conclude that; if you got involved in to it, you would have known about it, unless you were date raped. Alcohol and marijuana can cause bouts of black out however, you will be in your subconscious mind to realise you are having an intercourse or some one sexually abusing you.

Also, it seems very unreasonable that some one would have gotten another person to have sex with you and in the whole scheme of things you were still sleeping with out any knowledge of it. I am confident from your narrative that this is not the first time you are anxious about something. Perhaps this forum can't offer you anxiety support, we are specific to HIV Prevention and the impressions are that you didn't possess a risk unless you present us with a substantial proof of unprotected anal sex.

If you somehow do find out that your partner was indeed HIV positive and you exposed your self to the virus by unprotected anal intercourse, your best option would be to test at 6 weeks with a duo for a conclusive.

Please consider counseling for your anxiety, there is help available, you just need to reach out for it.

[Andla]

Hi mike_no.  Thank you very much for responding.  Yes, you are absolutely correct that it is not the first time that I am anxious about something.  I feel safe when I am very much aware of what happened and whether I could check that the guy keeps the condom on...basically, if I could recount every minute of me being with a guy. I am very much for safe sex but that entails being aware of what's going on, which does not happen every time  because of me liking alcohol.  But you are right that it is not the first time that I passed out and woke up next to a guy freaking out that something happened.  Something about them having sex with me without me knowing about it.  I know I won't win any sympathy here.  One time I woke up with my underwear torn - the guy swore he did not do anything, and I believed him.  I tested twice after that.  The other time I woke up next to a guy who had his erect penis (wearing a condom at least) trying to get close to me, and I thought he was trying to penetrate me. I confronted him and he said he'd never do that and explained it somehow (I honestly forgot what he said); and now I think that's how low I think about myself because I think that it is not wrong to violate me but that wearing a condom is more important.  But I do have a basis to fear that something may have happened without me knowing it.  I hate to think that I was date raped because I can't imagine what pleasure would a guy derive from that...:-(  I was available. And we spent a good hour in the morning talking and touching each other... He could have had me in an aware state if he wanted to.  The thing is I was afraid to ask him what happened and now I have no way to get in touch with him because he has not been on Grindr since we met and I don't have his phone number.  Unfortunately, you are wrong that help is available…:-( Not where I live.  Talking to you guys here helps me cope with my anxieties and help me not think about the worst.  Like that my life is over. Or ending it.  I don't know for how long you are going to respond to my posts but I appreciate every single word you write.  I know that this is not what you're here for but I have nowhere else to go or no one else to talk to.  It took a lot of courage for me to write here...anonymously.:-( I am glad I can speak English because it allowed me to reach out to you here.  I don't know what a duo test is.  I have only ever done a finger blood test. Would that be enough if I do it after 28 days?  Should I even do it?  I know I have to deal with my behavior and my alcohol consumption.  But no matter how drunk I was I always remembered what happened.  And I want to think that I remember that night correctly - I fell asleep and that's it.  Thank you for reading, for participating, for responding.  I can't express my gratitude.

[mike_no]

You have to find a counselor in your area to speak to, no one here can offer you the help you need for your anxiety, it's practically impossible to get counselled on an internet forum. I understand that there is prejudism and people are judged against their sexuality in a lot of places across the globe but a qualified therapist is a person who you can trust, they are trained to hear you and provide necessary support with out being judgemental.

I feel you misinterpreted most part of my earlier post since you are so anxious, you only focused on selective words, I never said you were date raped, my statement clearly meant that you were in no way to be unaware of having sex being high on marijuana and alcohol.

I am going to repeat myself that you don't seem to be in any risk for HIV contraction because you most probably didn't have unprotected anal sex. This whole thing is just your imagination and you need to seek help to move on in life from this.

[Andla]

Thank you for your reply mike_no.  No, I did not misinterpret your words.  I clearly heard what you wanted to say.  It must be my English.  Your words and those of CurfewX actually helped me focus on my rational thoughts.  I meant to say that I'd hate to think that it was even possible to be date raped because it is such a horrible thing to do to another human-being. Yes, I'd hate to think that I can be date raped because it is such a violation of my trust, but I did not mean to say that I was now thinking that this was what happened to me.  Most of all because I do not want to have these thoughts about the guy who I met in London - I know that what I am anxious about may only be a product of my imagination and fear.  I won't repeat my anxieties because I will just repeat the same thing in different words., and I believe you already understand my story and why I wrote here in the first place.  And I heard you clearly that this was not the place to seek counselling (although I will repeat myself that reading your comments helped rationalize my thoughts).  But I may I ask you about this duo test?  Is the finger blood test it?  I only ever had this kind of test and people at the testing place told me that it was only reliable after 3 months.  I never asked what tests they were using.  I am afraid to say which country I live in because I don't want to be found out but are these finger tests standard across the world?  I am not just asking for this episode.  I am sexually active - oral sex often with swallowing and rarely protected anal sex - so I want to get tested. But in this particular case I can't wait for 3 months because I am afraid that the irrational thoughts will once again prevail, and I can't seek counseling here (although you've already helped a lot) and not sure that I can find it where I live...at least not as quickly as I need to.  Or do you need to know the name of the test before you can answer this question?  Once again, thank you for taking the time to respond.

[mike_no]

Unprotected oral sex is not an HIV risk. Also, protected sex doesn't warrant testing.

A duo test is an antigen-antibody combination that minimizes the window period to 28 days. A duo test can be usually taken at a lab, there are rapid duo tests also available.

[Andla]

Thank you mike_no.

[CurfewX]

No one here can really help you sort out what happened that night.  I'm sure you realize that some of your thoughts are irrational - like that he brought someone else in to have sex with you.  It is also pretty implausible that, unless you were knocked out with such a heavy sedative that someone could perform surgery on you without waking up, a person could penetrate you without you having some knowledge that it happened.

In any case, it's easy enough to take a test at 28 days just to be sure.  If you're scared of taking the test, imagine living with the fear of the unknown.  I admit I have little empathy for "fear of testing" - you either have a disease or you don't, and testing for it doesn't make a disease appear that isn't there, and if it is, immediate treatment is always recommended.

[Andla]

Thank you for the response CurfewX.  Yes, I do realize that some of my thoughts are irrational, but sometimes I become so convinced that it happened because I still have this rectal pain that I let these thoughts consume me.  I am going to test of course, but I reached out here in order to seek help and advice until 28 days have passed - I don't know how to think about anything until then.  I guess I also wanted to know whether, if anything happened, the chance was high for the virus to be passed on.  Your advice was very much appreciated.  Once again, thank you.

[CurfewX]

Keeping in mind that you need to factor in both 1) the odds that your encounter was with someone who is HIV+ AND, 2) the odds of transmission from a one-time event, you are still looking at a relatively low risk, even with a high-risk event.  Obviously there's a third factor, which is HUGE:  whether this even happened.

The odds of transmission as the bottom in a one-time event are 1.4%.  That is with someone who is confirmed HIV+, of course.  The chances that the top was HIV+ are also low, so you have to consider the odds of BOTH events happening in one night.  

[Andla]

Once again, thank you for the response CurfewX.  You have no idea how much I appreciate your words and the time you spend to respond to questions here.  I can only agree with you that no one here can help me sort out what actually happened that night and if (the huge if) anal sex even happened.  When I have anal sex I always make sure that the guy wears a condom and I check during sex that he is still wearing it, which is why being out of it and not remembering anything is killing me because I was not in control of the situation and could not check.  If, IF, there was anything to check.  As far as I am concerned I passed out and that's how the night ended.  Still, the fear in me and the guilt that I got so drunk that I don't even remember what happened convince me that something did because I have all these images in my mind, and I can't say if they were dreams or the reality (like, I have this memory that someone put his penis into my mouth and it smelled like it was just in someone's ass - the memory or the dream of the smell and the penis is still very vivid but I can't tell for sure that it was from that night as for some reason I think it was a dream from the night before), but the rational side of me says that no one would do such a thing or that I would have remembered and come back to my senses if he were trying to do anything.  I even feel guilty towards the guy because here I am talking about him, obviously saying that he may have been this horrible person who would take advantage of a drunk person, even though he seemed pretty nice to me and probably does not deserve to be talked about the way I am.  I guess I will never know what happened.  Although I wish I could put the bad thoughts behind me and just think about the night as a fun encounter, me thinking that I have to test says a lot about what I actually think... .  I guess that is the price I pay for passing out next to someone I don't know no matter how much I convince myself that the majority of people are good people.  And I want to wake up next to someone without fearing that they violated me.  All I can find out is the result of the test.  Your words and insight helped me put things into perspective and just wait until I can take the test.  Whether or not I even need it.  Thank you for helping people like me who have nowhere else to turn to.  I am from Eastern Europe where the stigma of being gay is huge.  I went to the proctologist yesterday about the pain in my anus, and I was afraid to tell him that I may have (which sounds ridiculous in itself) had anal sex without knowing it.  I did have the courage to tell him on the way to the clinic, which disappeared when I entered the room. The doctor said I had hemorrhoids (which I knew I had), but of course I am now convinced that it was anal sex that caused them to re-appear...:-( I apologize for so many words.  Thank you for what I can only describe as an invaluable thoughts and insight that you and this forum provide.  I am grateful that I at least found a place to share my thoughts and fears without the fear of being judged.  Thank you.