Please help me

[gloomygirl]

Good Evening Doctors,

I hope that one of you can help me. I have been living my life for the past eight years in total fear of having HIV because of somethings that I have done. I would always ask my partners to wear condoms because I never wanted to put anyone at risk for anything. I finally decided that I could not take it anymore and went to get tested recently.

I have had one rapid oral test and two finger prick rapid test (clearview complete). All three were negative. I should be jumping up and down for joy....right? Unfortunately I am unable to. I have done a little research on rapid test and  I have seem some things that have stated that these test are not as good as the ELISA test in people who may have been infected for a ling time or may have developed AIDS. Since I have been tested in so long....I do not know if I fit into the category. I tried to get a RNA test...but could not afford it. I am just afraid that is I take an ELISA test that it may find something that the rapid tests did not .

It seems like this is a never ending cycle. I thought I was doing the right thing by getting tested but instead it seems like I have chosen the wrong type of test. I say that because of things that I have read. I understand that the rapid test are FDA approved but then you go somewhere else and they trash rapid test and then provide some type of evidence as to why they are not good to use. I even read one study that was conducted where they tested individuals with rapid test and they were all negative but then they tested the sames individuals with an EIA/ELISA and most of them were reactive. They provide no explanations as to why this happens...but whatever the reason does not matter.

I have come to learn that rapid test rely on detecting antibodies by using antigens but I am unsure what antigens the clearview complete use and if this test detects all subtypes of HIV. I am really not sure what to do at this point as I feel that I am living a horrible nightmare and I just want it to end even if that means just taking my life. My questions are the following:

1. Do you know what antigens the clearview complete uses?
2. If someone had AIDS would they still test antibody positive on a rapid test.
3.What is the difference between the rapid test and EIA/ELISA test if they look for the same thing
4. Even if I tested ELISA negative after eight years could I be certain I don't have HIV?

Thank you and I hope you can help

[joggen]

This article is from the CDC and explains more than you need to know about rapid tests (link below). I'm posting this since you asked for it and to correct the incorrect information on your other posts, for the benefit of other worried wells reading this:

Here is a DIRECT quote from the article.

Rapid HIV Antibody Test Performance and
Interpretation of Test Results

Like conventional EIAs, rapid HIV tests are screening
tests. If performed correctly, they detect HIV antibodies
with sensitivities similar to currently available EIAs
[10,22,24–29] (Table 1). A negative rapid HIV test result
requires no further confirmatory testing.

Here is the link to the article:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/testing/resources/journal_article/pdf/rapid_review.pdf

I hope you'll see that you were given wrong information by your doctor, the technician, and your 'research', and that information from the CDC trumps all of these other sources that have confused you.

If this doesn't clarify things for you, you can post in the Expert forum and hear it from one of our doctors, who work with the CDC. But when people are anxious and depressed, even these sources of info often don't work, so as I said on the HIV Anxiety Support group, consulting a psychiatrist is recommended.

[nursegirl6572]

What's the problem?  You've convinced yourself that rapid tests aren't good because of your own research?  Rapid tests are perfectly reliable.

If you don't trust rapid results, then why not take a standard antibody test?  Seems simple enough?  It will be negative, as you've already tested conclusively.  Fear is not a reason not to test...I understand it's an issue, but it's just NOT a reason.  For you, it doesn't matter anyway, as you've already tested negative.

I HIGHLY recommend that you seel professional help, as it's simply not normal to not be able to accept your results.  Your worrying indicates either an anxiety order or (more likely) OCD.

You've worked yourself into a frenzy.  Look at it this way, if your doctor ordered a test for something else, would you doubt the results and spend infinite amts of time researching testing methods?  Of course you wouldn't.  You'd trust the results.  This should be no different...and the physiological details of how the tests work just shouldn't be important..but because of your anxiety, you're obsessed with those details.

There's nothing else we can tell you.  You don't have HIV...I can't state it any clearer.  Please, get yourself some help.

[samw2]

You are negative man, you are negative. do the test just to live your life without fear and just to confirm that you are negative. Don't worry at all you are  negative i'm sure. please go and post your  negative test here. waiting to see it . good luck

[playdoh07]

And my comment about knowing your status  instead of hiding in the dark was towards everyone that uses "im scared" as an exuse not to be tested.

[playdoh07]

You obviously didnt read my reply well. I said you continue to worry about hiv for no reason. Which you are. Your tests proves you dont have hiv, yet you continue to worry, and post about how accurate they are? Well ill tell you. 100 percent accurate if they are taken three months post exposure. Are all tests the same? Of course not.  They are marketed products just like anything else. You can probably lists 100 different types of dish soap. Are they all the same? No. Do they accomplish cleaning the dishes? Yes. Hiv tests arethe same thing. They accomplish giving an accurate result kn the correct time frame. Do you have to worry about false positives? No. Do you need to worry about false negatives? No. Do you need to suck it up and move on? Yes. I could tell you that you could be hit by a meteor when you leave your house.. Are you going to hide inside all day? Probably not. See my point? The fact that youtested negative and jumped online to check test details and accuracy instead of yelling woohoo should tell you that maybe its time to grt some help.

[gloomygirl]

Okay, this is my last post I am going to make because I do not want any banning me on anything like that. I came here because I am trying to understand the accuracy of a rapid test and it's comparison to an ELISA test. No one has been able to answer that question. Secondly, the only thing everyone keeps saying is that rapid test are accurate....obviously they are not if if you have to make a comment that states "It is much better to know your status and get help if positive then to hide in the dark." I have been test three...not one, not two...but three time all by rapid test. I am now scared out of my mind because of comments like the one you just made. I put my big girl panties on when I went to get an HIV test done after being afraid to do one for EIGHT YEARS. Now I am still unsure because they were rapid test. I would not be doing my family any favors by so called knowing my status either BECAUSE LIKE I SAID I WILL KILL MYSELF!!!!! If I would have known that the rapid test weren't for people like me in the first place I wouldn't have gotten one. Now I am living with the fear that I am living a lie because instead of getting my blood drawn from my vein....I got my finger pricked, because I did go to a lab and get tested...I went to a outreach clinic.

The only thing that would help me move on is hearing that no matter what HIV test I take....all the results will be the same. Because HIV test are not all designed by the same people, do not use the same amounts of blood and do not have the same amount of sensitivity...which I am not understanding why they wouldn't if they are looking the SAME EXACT THING...there is no guarantee that the results will be the same. Even if it is a false positive....that is something that I do not want to deal with. I keep saying it and I will say it again. I came here to get a better understanding of how rapid test work....if they are in fact the same an ELISA test....then how. Do they all use the same type of so called antigens., does the amount of blood matter. That is all I want to and ever wanted to know. If someone would have explained this 3 or post ago....this would have been over by now. As far as testing positive and getting....that life does not exist for me. For all of those who have HIV and life wonderful lives. I commend you. Unfortunately, where I come from and the family that I come from....that would not be MY STORY. It would be like living in HELL. I would have not support, my family would dis own me and people would probably not want to even associate with my family because of it. You may ask....did I think about this while having sex....YES. Each and every time. This is why I never believed in unprotected sex of any kind WHAT SO EVER. But now I am sitting afraid for my life because A$# HOLE decided he wanted to remove a condom for his own personal pleasure!!!!!!!!!! So the mere fact that you stated that I would rather worry about HIV for no reason and then turn around and state that IF POSITIVE totally contradicts itself. Thank you all for your words of encouragement and your advice. I still have not gotten an explanation of the rapid test procedure and how it is comparable to an ELISA. I can not take this anymore and do not want to live through this another day.

[playdoh07]

So instead of having an elisa test and moving on, you would rather worry about hiv for no reason? And continue to search the net and post on forums? It is much better to know your status and get help if positive then to hide in the dark.  Put your big girl panties on and get it over with. Your not doing your family and favors by not knowing your status.

[gloomygirl]

The reason that I have not gone to take and ELISA is because I am scared. If I take one and it does not come back negative...that is not going to end my pain. It will start new pain, new pain for my family, my daughter and for myself. I say this because, I would definitely KILL MYSELF. It would leave my daughter motherless and the rest of family without me. I really do not want to have to do this but that is what would happen. That's why I am so concerned about the rapid test being accurate.

[gloomygirl]

I am sorry to hear about your situation. Thank you for trying to make me feel better. I wasn't going to ask you why your concerned, I completely understand why. Unlike you, you have had many test and have all proved that you were negative and you also have a test that looks for the virus itself that says negative. I am trying to get up the nerve to get an ELISA and hope it does not come back positive. I hope your doctors can find out what's wrong soon and I hope you feel better.

[samw2]

Why you don't take  ELISA test now to end you pain ?

[BobPop]

Your case still better than mine.
My case. I always test positive using finger prick on rapid clearview complete and oraquick. But when I test standard elisa , oral test , rna pcr, dna pcr, western blot, and 4 gen elisa they all negative.
I wish I could find why I test positive on thoserapid tests. And if you want to ask why I m concerned . I tell you that I have many symptoms that even dr cant tell me why.  Still after 11 months I am still worried and scared. I dont know when it gonna end for me.

[gloomygirl]

I know it sounds like I do...but I really don't. I do not have this issue in any part of my life. I am only paranoid because of things I have read on the Internet and what my Dr. said. If you came an told me that every single HIV test known to man if exactly the same, they use the same testing method, and they use the same antigens...then okay, I would be fine; because that means no matter what test you take, they all have the same result. Unfortunately, that is not the case. Like I stated in my post above, one uses one type of antigen and one doesn't, one might cover one sub-type and one may not. I am not trying to be a mental health case, I am not trying to chase a diseases, I am not trying to invalidate my result and I am definitely not trying or want to be infected. I am just going off the information that my Dr. told me. Again, I do not know if it this woman mission in life to scare the sh%*t out off people, but she did in fact scare me. Just the thought of taking another test and getting different result paralyzes me. I just came here to get information on how in fact these test do work, do they work like ELISA test work, do they use the same antigens that ELISA test do...that's all. But like I stated before, people are not willing to break things for people, they just tell you that you have a mental issue and that you need to seek help. Then they tell you to move on and except your results. Well it is not that easy when things are not standard. Someone even asked me, if I went to the doctor and got tested for Breast Cancer and they told me that I didn't have it...would I believe them. My answer is yes...why because being a woman and the daughter of a breast cancer survivor....I have done enough research to know that breast cancer testing is standard and mammograms are standard. I can take 100 mammograms and they will all give me the same result. But with HIV test....that is not the case. Again, I thank you all for listening to me. I came here to get a better understanding of rapid HIV test and I still don't understand them. I will just have to get up nerve to one day...hopefully sooner or later to get a blood draw and just deal with the result good or bad but I am praying that they will be the same "Negative".

[Chevy1890]

Sounds like you might have OCD.

[gloomygirl]

Thank you for your confidence. It does make feel a little.....I just wish I could be that confident too.

[playdoh07]

I understand how scary it can be. I also understand how the.mind rund away eith itself on topics like this.  But in reality, you have two choices. One, you can continue to worry daily about hiv and sit on the net looking up symptoms, cases, studies and testing. Or two you can get a blood test, find out itsnegative and start living your life.

[gloomygirl]

Thank you, I will try my best to work with my therapist and to work up the nerve to get a blood draw. As I stated to Teak below, my primary care doctor got me to this point of being afraid. She even went on about how if the test was done wrong....then it could give the incorrect answer. After that I just got fixed in my head that maybe there was a chance that the test was done wrong. I even asked how in the world can one be done wrong? Even if it can't my doctor put this idea in my head...for what reason, I do not know. Thanks

[gloomygirl]

Teak,

I asked my primary care doctor that same question and she said that "rapid test are not considered ELISA test and that they use antigens and not the enzyme link method the way that ELISA's do. She also stated that they do not cover all sub-types of HIV and that they are not as accurate as the ELISA test" That is what got me started on this research frenzy. I am not sure if she said that because she has no knowledge of rapid test or if she is correct. All I know is that is scared the crap of me.

[Teak]

Most all rapid tests are ELISA tests.

[playdoh07]

I agree with joggen, therapy is the besy approach to help you get over this fear. You dont need to worry about late stages of aids and not producing antibodies etc, if you were there you would know. You would be in and out of the hospital, sick, and on deaths door step by now. If you are so afraid of the rapid test being incorrect(which its NOT) ehy not go to your dr tomorrow, ask for a simple hiv antibody blood test. When it comes back negative(and it will) you can let it go.

[gloomygirl]

You know....I have asked myself that same question. Why can't I let it go? Why do I feel like I should be infected? Why do I feel like I am infected? For some reason after so much soul searching...I can not find the answer. Maybe it's because I feel as though instead of wasting my time having sex with people I know did not care about me and just wanted one thing from me...I should have been focusing on more important things like family, school and my career. Maybe it's because based on the way I raised, I know it was wrong . Maybe because I just regret having sex all together...I don't know. The fact remains, I know the things that I have done and I cannot act as though they have never happened. HIV is real and sex is one of the ways that you get it. Have I always practiced safe sex...with the exception of one time...yes. But I be sure that the individual I was with was honest and always kept the condom on or made sure it did not break...no. Can I be sure that someone was always honest about their status when I asked them...no. I know I was, I would tell people I had not been tested in awhile and make sure you use a condom...but that's me and I am considerate of other people, but not everyone thinks that way. Did I test negative...yes, three times as a matter of fact. But just when I think it is all over and I am okay, here comes something else like saying "did you thinks you were going to get off that easy" It's a nightmare and it is killing me. If God's way for punishing for my actions...by letting me live with the fear, then is doing a good job at punishing. I have learned my lesson now and I pray that he would just stop punishing me. Thank you for listening and I just hope and pray that these test are as accurate as people make them out to be and I am truly okay. Thank you

[joggen]

I have nothing more to say, other than therapy is probably your best bet at this point. There is something about your "something I have done" incident 8 years ago that is not letting you let this go. Maybe it's guilt, or trauma, or a bad relationship. You need to talk it through with a therapist, and figure out why you feel like you should be infected with HIV.

[gloomygirl]

Okay, I understand what you are saying. The only reason I question the test results is because of the following information I found:

"infection with a variant of the virus that is less detectable by the Clearview assay configuration
HIV antibodies in the patient that do not react with specific antigens utilized in the assay configuration - in exceptional cases this may lead to observation of false negative results
specimens handling conditions which result in loss of HIV antibody multivalency."

I do not completely understand what this all means...but I do understand the part where it says "HIV antibodies in the patient that do not react with specific antigens utilized in the assay configuration - in exceptional cases this may lead to observation of false negative results". So basically this is saying that you can still be infected but because the antibodies that you have do not react to the antigens used in this particular assay...then you could get a false negative result. This is the only thing that I am afraid of...the are basically stating that you could have antibodies to HIV but because the the antigens that are used in our particular test...you may not react. Then there is the fact that I have not been tested in so long, there are cases where people don't develop antibodies anymore or people will advance stages of the disease do not test positive on the rapid test. I am not blaming anyone. It is my fault...but I am just trying to understand all of these different statements that these test manufacturers are making. Are they saying "yes you tested negative on our test...but because our test does not contain all the antigens specific to HIV...then you will need another test"?

[joggen]

You have obviously been reading a lot of crap on the internet that had mislead you. Modern HIV (antibody) tests, including rapid tests, cover all subtypes. The studies that you have read don't apply to your situation. HIV tests, including the rapid tests, are some of the most accurate in the world. There are no such things as false negatives after the window period. Stop googling HIV on the interent, accept your results, and move on with your life.

[gloomygirl]

Thank you for your response. I am seeing a therapist as a matter of fact. I am just afraid because after reading somethings about rapid, I notice that some react to certain sub-types of HIV and some don't. I am just trying to make sure that I am doing the right thing here and not going on with my life with the wrong information. When people come to these forums they are told "you got a negative result and you need to move on" but what people don't realize is that we "worry wells" come to these sites because we are not scientist and do not know the ins and outs of HIV. Until now, I did not know that there were different types of sub-types and antigens specific to this disease. All I know is...you are either negative or positive. But after reading things about HIV and HIV test. I am now learning that one test may have one antigen and not the other. One test might cover one sub-type and not the other. Some people react to one test and not the other. You may test antibody negative but have the HIV RNA in you body. It gets confusing , frustrating and depressing. You go get an HIV test and here the word negative and think you are good right??? Wrong, here comes some scientific evidence stating that just because you test negative does not mean you are not infected. These are not my words....these are the words of scientific studies, clinical trial, some HIV specialist and even my own primary care doctor. So, I am not trying to turn into some nut case here....trust me I am not. I am just trying to make sure I am okay and educated...that's all.