Definition of a structurally normal heart and arrhythmias

[tickertock]

Thanks for your valuable time and for taking my questions. I am very curious as to what is the definition of a truly structural normal heart as it sames to me that no organ in the body is without some kind of blemish, I guess it would be the significance of the blemish that defines normal, my guess only.

For example would mild MVP, with a redundancy of the mitral leaflets and trivial regurgitation qualify as a structurally normal heart, also would something like borderline left ventricular hypertrophy fall within the limits of what would be considered a structurally normal heart with an EF between 65-70%.

The reason I  ask these questions it appears to me that a lot of persons that suffer with PVCs, PACs, and even runs of NSVT same to have these minor problems show on echo,my question is even with these minor defects or problems , does these problems still qualify as a structurally normal heart and the persons with these arrhythmias and these minor problems can be reassured that they will be fine if no other problems are present.Thanks for your valuable time.

P.S To those concerned , I know this my second question within the 6 month period, I promise this will be my last question for the whole year, maybe my last question period, good luck to everyone else trying to get their questions posted.

[jan]

I found out about my lil heart problems 4 mos. after Mom died of CHF.  She had suffered quite a bit.  She had open heart surgery for 2 bypasses and a mitral valve replacement, so I was freaked when I heard that my fatigue, dizziness, near syncope, etc. was from my heart. (Mild MVP, mild MR and TR, IST, and NCS).

It was through this forum that I learned about my diagnoses and came to grip with what I have (I have a real nice cardio/ep, too).  I knew nothing about the heart until after finding this forum, which was after Mom's passing.  How I wish I had found it in time to help her (if possible).  I don't believe I had a computer at that time, either.

Anyway, someone had asked way back then (1999) about valvular disease, so it wasn't too long before I learned that what I had was considered such.  Yikes, came to my mind, too.  LOL  Although, this may have been the only place I heard it mentioned. (My cardio may have mentioned it once, because I think I asked him about what I read here).

I know many people panic and I wonder if that is why they play it down or because it often doesn't progress.  I, also, wonder if when they are mentioning structural soundness and the effects of an arrhythmia if they are thinking of "heart disease", not valvular disease.  Maybe the problem in question would be a problem with heart disease, but not with valvular disease?

I am very thankful for this forum!

[wmac]

Very interesting to me as well. I have mvp with mild regurgitation as well and a ef of 70%. All the many many docs that I have seen said I have a very normal healthy heart as well. I do have nsvt and with having the mvp they still say its nothing to worry about. But in one report it did say valve disease!!!Yikes is right!!! Even with all my postings here and talking about mvp and and my ef and the nsvt all the docs said that I have a normal healthy heart as well.mmmmmmm But didnt I just read that the doc said its not normal and healthy???
wmac

[jan]

I think that was a terrific question!  (I have mild mvp, mild mr and tr, and just this last echo showed mild pulm pressure).  I am treated for IST and NCS, (and get other paroxsymal arrhythmias of lil consequence) all just seeming nuisance stuff.  

Since there have been so many comments by diff drs. about the insignificance or even just a diff or variance of the norm, I would've never thought it was considered anything, but norm.  I never did worry about it, but a good deal has to do with being followed by a cardio.  It just seems there was some frustrating contradiction going on.  Well, just wanted to say I thought it was a great question.

[Christie2004]

Try posting from 8a-10a EST.

Also try not to not be so critical of others.  What is trivial to one person is the most important question on earth to others.

[CCF-M.D.-MJM]

Good question. I would not describe someone with MVP as structurally normal, although the echo you mention above does not describe any significant abnormalities.  The same is try if they LVH.  In my mind, structrually normal means a completely normal echo.  This does not mean I would worry about mild LVH or mild MVP,but I would certaily follow these findings clinically.

Hope this helps.

[mbimom]

I think that your response was quite rude and uncalled for. A lot of questions asked here are not serious in nature. If you have really serious medical problems I hope you are talking to you doctor about them. I have never had a problem posting it just takes a couple of days of trying. I just hate to see such meaness on this forum.

[whelans5]

I once asked a similar question with the exception that I have bicuspid aortic valve and not MVP and I have regurgitation.  I won't speak for the doctor, but he told me it was not considered to be a normally structured heart.  But still the PAC's and PVC's were not a big deal.

As for your question, I think it is a quite important and valid question that should be answered.  If MVP with regurg is not structurally normal, that information could turn out to be very useful.

I think people with really bad attitudes and anger problems do themselves harm physically as anger often raises blood pressure with puts a strain on the heart.  And, if that same person has a heart problem to begin with, well, they aren't doing themselves any favour.

Everyone has the right to post questions on this site provided they abide by the rules.  I don't see anything on the site that says, "if you think or suspect someone else might think your question is stupid and useless, please don't post".

Have a good day everyone.

[Gaspipe]

Your comment is a mite harsh. Tickertock can ask questions within the posting guidelines. I do think it is a good question.I do see your point about not asking any old question and would hope people who do not have relavant questions just don't hit the post button and then get in and come up a meaningless question . Just my humble opinion Gaspipe

[Rochelle73]

Just wanted to say that I have posted three questions within the last 18 months and each time, I have been able to post within two or three tries, i.e. sit at the computer for 10 mins or so and keep trying.  Must be something to do with being in the UK and the time difference, I find usually posting around 7am our time is most likely to be successful.

[mmfd]

For what it's worth, I think Tickertock's question is a very good one, and  most likely applicable to many.  As long as he's posting within the guidelines, he is entitled to ask whatever question he wants!  Personally, I think it's quite refreshing to get stuff other than the same ole PVC theme! ;))

[tickertock]

Thanks for the insult!! as you can see 2 other persons seem to want to know the same thing so this question not only benefits me but others, You are entitled to think what is relevant and significant when it pertains to the heart in general, apparently you lack the understanding that what might be significant to you means nothing to someone else and what might appear significant to someone else means nothing to you!!

Anyway that said, Good luck with getting your question through from the bottom of my heart, if you change your attitute and be more understanding and considerate of others, maybe the luck of the draw may come your way someday.

[tickertock]

Hi , I know that a bicuspid aortic valve is not a normal finding, but then again it might never become of a concern for some, just simply needs to be watched.

I understand that trivial regurgitation of the mitral and tricuspid valves are found in 20-30% of the population and is termed an essentially normal finding, so is mild MVP, even though any regurgitation of the valves needs watching from time to time, regurgitation of the aortic valve is never considered a normal finding, whether bicuspid or the normal 3 cusps.

Borderline left ventricular hypertrophy sames to be noted on a lot of echos, yet the echo is most often termed essentially normal, probably due to the hypertension and being overweight, mainly hypertension being the cause.

I simply asked the questions because persons presenting with arrhythmias such as PVCs, PACs , NSVT, even SVTs and sinus tachycardia and given echos, the vast majority of echos from these patients have these finding noted on them, yet patients are assured that they will be fine if they have a structurally normal heart, so I simply want to know that despite these minor defects or slight changes in heart mass if it still qualifies as a normal heart.

Thanks for your imput and everyone else's for that matter.

[uptowngirl]

Thanks for posting within the guidelines.

I'm interested in the answer here too.  Because I have moderate MVP and mild MR with redundancy of the leaflets my cardio says this is not "structurally normal" when I asked her about it.  My EF is 50-55%.  Your EF sounds real good.  Are you athletic????.  Do you take any meds?????????

By the way, I like your name (tickertock).  My cardio always calls my heart the "ticker". Was your name chosen for this reason, or some other??

All the Best,
Uptown

[Momto3]

Thanks for posting this question.  I've wondered the same thing about a "structually normal heart."  I've had MVP/MR for years and only recently did I hear the term "valve disease."  YIKES!!

Thanks again : )

connie

[mrbh]

Hey tickertock...great question. Thanks for posting it.

jdm...a bit over the top, don't you think? If your problems are that pressing, you should be discussing them with a doctor managing your case.

Everyone take care and be well.

[Konopka1955]

Hi,  I'm so glad you asked this question.  Seems alot of people think if they have a PVC or PAC that they MUST have heart disease.  They can't accept the fact that they may have a 'normal' structured heart.  I think the docs on this web have indicated on more than one occassion that - having pvc's and pac's does not indicate heart disease.  

Some people think heck if I ask the 'same' questions often enough - I'm sure I'll get the answer I'm looking for - and even if they did get their answer - I guarantee they wouldn't be able to accept it...  They would still ask the same questions over and over.  I just may start trying that.  I see alot of people posting more than they are suppose to and they will even practically ask the same question.  

I've had pvc's, pac's, avnrt, (full heart block) along with, vt's and nsvt and I stayed in sustained vt for quite some time during my EP test and I wasn't 'counting' every heart beat - all day - every day - heck that's what I pay my doctor for - that's what they make heart monitors for.  I think according to statistics (myself included) cardiac patients don't ever diagnose their condition accurately...    

I've had arrhythmias for 12 years and they've never been cured - but some people just can't 'accept' that there is NO CURE..  Sad as it is - there is NO CURE for 'some' people.   I feel very sorry for them.  They don't really live life - they just 'worry' about life..

I can't believe that some people actually complained about your question - I know several of these same people have posted twice and sometimes three times more than allowed according to the rules..  

But then again its fine for them to break the rules - just don't let others do it..   I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander.  I just may start posting about my pvc's and pac's and full heart block and vt's and goodness knows I can sit here and ask the same questions day after day - and I could get away with it - as its' already shown others do..  

I don't know why CCF just doesn't accept more than two questions a day.  If it was available - I doubt anyone would do it..  I think there is a saying:  We all want what we can't have !!!

Best Wishes
Marilyn  (runner)

[jdm]

Hey tickertock

I have what I consider a substantive question about MY heart condition that I have been attempting to place for weeks at all hours of the day and late night without success.

I am trying to place this question because I will have an upcoming echo to check the status of two insufficient heart valves.  

I find your question an insult to anyone trying to place a question of importance related to a REAL and SPECIFIC problem for which they vitally need advice.  

Thanks a lot.  And....I am VERY glad that the 2 question within 6 months rule has been instituted to prevent you from asking nonspecific questions like this one.  

I had about decided that the questions to this forum were "wired" in the sense that they were preapproved in some way.  I doubt this now since your "question" got through.

[~*CaMeO*~]

Am looking forward to the good Doctor's reply to this question - something I have wondered about for a long time.  Thanks for asking.

[nymomof5]

Great question..was wondering this myself!

[pms_barbie]

I have mvp also but because I have no enlargement or thickening of the heart muscle, they say I have a structualy normail heart.  Im interested in seeing this answer myself.

jdm anyone that takes the time to ask a question here, feels their question is improtant.  Your comment was really uncalled for.