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Increase in PACs/PVCs

Hi,
  First, let me say I really appreciate this forum; it's comforted me on several occasions the last 3 months when I was sure it was my last day on earth.
  I'm 30 years old, excellent health (or so I thought), on no prescriptions.  In fact I had never spent the night in a hospital until May 12th when my heart started doing something it had never done before.  I began having what I would soon learn were PACs and PVCs.  Had an EKG, an echocardiagram, a treadmill test, and a 24 hour holter monitor.  All tests (except the holter monitor) came back with no abnormal results.  The holter monitor showed I had a little over 2,000 PACs and about 70 PVCs.
  Since then, either the PACs or the PVCs have gotten progressively worse.  I was having them about every 50 beats or so, but now I can hardly go 10 beats without having one, and many times I get 3,4, or 5 in a row.  I'm sure they have gone from 2,000 to at least 10,000 or more.
  With that said, here are my questions:
1.  I don't want to be a "worry-wart" and go back to my cardiologist to the point where he thinks I'm a hypochondriac and begins dismissing me, but the increase in frequency really has me worried.  Do you feel I'm justified in going back to him?
2.  Can the frequency of PACs/PVCs just keep on increasing until that's the only kind of beat I have?  Can an individual live like that?
3.  I have always been sensitive to my heart beat, and I can feel the PACs/PVCs go off like an electric shock in my chest, which causes a sudden compression in my chest, makes me suddenly exhale and cough.  Is this normal?  Most of the info on these premature beats fail to mention this as a symptom, they just talk about feeling the compensatory beat (which I certainly feel as well.)
4.  Related to number 3 above.  Since I can feel the electrical surge of the premature beats, I have noticed it actually happening simultaneously with a normal beat, which scares me to death.  Can a PVC/PAC occuring simultaneously with a normal beat(or very close to it) confuse the hearts pace maker to the point where it just can't recover?
5.  My holter monitor showed some time in my sleep in which my heart rate dropped to 48 beats per minute.  Is it dangerous then to take a beta-blocker (i.e. Atenolol) to help with the premature beats?  I stopped drinking caffeinated bevarages 15 years ago, don't smoke or drink, got plenty of exercise before these things started, and I love my job/wife/family, so these guys are truly the only source of stress I have in my life.  Given that I never had the usual culprits of PACs/PVCs to start out with, I don't have any lifestyle changes that will help, so it looks like the medication is my only alternative.

Again, thanks so much for this site.  When I'm awaken by these things at 3:00 am, it sure helps to sit down for a little while and read that others are going through the same thing and that they are probably benign.
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Avatar universal
Mub
Just happened to start reading a book tonight called "Mitral Valve Prolapse Syndrom/Dysautonomia Survival Guide" by Durante, Durante and Furiasse, and then found this forum. Much of what you are all talking about is covered in this book. They claim this Mitral Valve Prolapse Syndrome is a cluster of symptoms, including PVC's (which I have constantly, and which prompted me to find this forum and the book), depression, panic attacks, shortness of breath, sleep disorders, and the list goes on and on. The book may be helpful to many of you. It's published by New Harbinger Publications, Inc. I found it at Borders.
Good to have this forum, as I am always convinced that no heart that beats like mine can be "normal", although I've had all the tests, too.
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Avatar universal
Hi everyone, I just want to say thanks for all the great information, I came on here tonight nervous again about these things, and as usual, this board has helped calm me down.  I was wondering if any of you have been told to take an aspirin a day to prevent stroke?  I was told to take one per day due to a short run I had of atrial fib a while back, not because of the PVC's, but I was wondering if PVC's can also increase your stroke risk.  I sometimes get a tingling feeling down an arm, or in my leg or on my face, and worry that could be a warning sign for a stroke, since I have so many PVC's.  I sometimes get one every 5 beats or so.  But, the information above is so helpful, I'll really try the things on there, like getting more rest, and exercising, which I really do notice seems to help, at least during the exercise.  Well, good luck and thanks again!  Val
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Avatar universal
Hi.  On the point of anxiety increasing PVC's: I have suffered from PVC's and the occasional run of something over the past 15 odd years.  It got much worse after my first child (I am 40). I never bothered about the palpitations as I considered them 'normal' until I recently learnt that they are not.  I was worried about the PVC's - also had bigeminy a few times.  Doctors did not diagnose anything and just told me not to worry as they all seem to do.  Was on a CCB for a bit and also on a Beta B for a bit during bad spells.  Then, after a new type of rhythm disturbance - felt like my heart was shaking for a few seconds (don't know if this is what afib feels like), I had an EP study done but did not consent to the ablation due to fear of the procedure.  However, I wanted to get a diagnosis as to what was wrong with my heart.  The EP study showed AVNRT which is ablatable and my EP believes it is responsible for the three different type of rhythms I experience.  Just knowing for sure what is causing my strange heart rhythms has reduced the frequency and intensity of my PVC's.  There is no more worry about what is wrong, why it is happening.  Now I know, I understand and I can get on with life and decide when I want to have the ablation - if ever.  Now when I get them, I barely notice half as much as I used to.  I used to have to sit quietly for a while and sometimes I would even go to bed during a bad spell and just lie there worrying, scared to move around too much.  
I wish everyone in this forum with these wicked rhythms well.  What a pity we have to experience them!  But we do have them and learning to accept and live with them is going to help to improve the quality of our lives.  This is hard, especially on a bad day, but the alternative of living in fear for many years is harder and makes it worse.
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Avatar universal
Visit www.cryocor.com  For a treatment for Irregular heartbeats. Cryocor therapy has been used for arrthymias and it was a good read.
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Avatar universal
808
Thanks for your kind words.  I pray for good days for everyone having to deal with these skips.
Skip, the "flexing" method has a medical term, but I forgot it (I will ask my wife's cousin).  When I had my first A-fib about 10 years ago, I flexed down, clinching my fists, for about 5 seconds twice and my heart went back to a normal rhythm.  Since then, I'll use the method whenever I feel a PAC or PVC coming on; I'm usually "skip-free" for days or weeks.  It was only recently while having major PACs/PVCs that the "flexing" did not work right away.  Also heard that one can take a facial dipIinto a pan of "ice-cold" water to get the heart back to a normal rhythm.  I truly believe that my PACs/PVCs are caused by my nerves (pure stress). Taking 10 to 20mg of Doxepin per day helps me balance my stresses resulting in less PACs or PVCs.
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Avatar universal
So good to know I am not alone.  Just received the results of my Holter and the nurse said,"  No big thing, you only had a few skips."  She has to be kidding. I had taken Quinidex Ext. for 20 yrs. and was totally skip free.  They took it off the market and I was put on Rytlhmal (propafenol) 225 mg twice a day and have had PACs and PVCs what I considered a lot.  I guess they just don't care about these I haven't been able to eat or sleep, just waiting for more skips.  I WANT THESE STUPID THINGS TO GO AWAY!
Thanks so much for all your feedback.  They have helped a lot.
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Avatar universal
808
I'm a 41 yrs old male and have been dealing with PACs/PVCs for almost 10 years.  It's been rough at times, but I'm surviving!  It started with a thump or two in my early thirties which I thought were stomach spasms, resulting in panic attacks....thought I had ulcers so I had it checked out by an gastro specialist; negative.  So I had a few more here and there until 1994 when I woke up with a-fib.  It scared the heck out of me and I went to the ER.  Basically was told that it was normal, gave me an aspirin and instructed to see a cardiologist.  That night, my wife's cousin (a vascular specialist) told me that I should try a method to get my rhythm back to normal.  He told me to "flex" like a muscle-man! ...arms in front, clinching down hard.  Guess what, it worked....my heart was back to it's normal rhythm.  Although it worked, I went to see a cardiologist, gone through all the works (24 hr holter, treadmill, etc) and said that my heart is fine, PACs/PVCs were common, and I should get some exercise for stress.  From that day on I've had some misfires here and there; in most cases when I was stressed out or exhausted.  In November 2002, my father was diagnosed with lung cancer with 6-8 months left.  Being very close to my father, I felt really shocked and stressed.  The PACs/PVCs started again with bad indigestion; I couldn't eat much and lost some weight.  While surfing the net I came across a spool about depression and a study on anti-depressants vs. gastro problems. After reading this, I then took realized that during my bouts with PACs/PVCs I would always have bad indigestion.  I went to a psychiatrist who prescribed me doxepin 10mg/day for my depression.  After a couple of days, the indigestion went away and so did the PACs/PVCs. I've been able to control my bouts with indigestion, anxiety attacks, and PACs/PVCs by taking the low dosage of doxepin.

About two weeks ago, my father passed away and his funeral followed a week later.  Because of my anxiety and stress over my father's death, I had a feeling to expect frequent PVCs/PACs again.  Sure enough my PACs/PVCs started up again the day following my father's funeral (post stress). I started to take two dosages of doxepin a day instead of once a day.  I'm continuing to have my bouts with PACs/PVCs again, but I'm not worried.  I've learned to live with them and I do believe that, in my case, STRESS is the major cause.

This forum is a great place to know that you're not alone and to get some useful information.  My remedy may or may not work for you, but hope it'll work for some.

The sensation I get during PACs/PVCs is a spasm feeling in the upper abdomen area with occasional breaths taken (like catchin my breath).  I heard that the spasm is felt from the large artery behind the stomach.  I also have indigestion at the same time.
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Avatar universal
Very sorry to hear about your dad.  

Welcome to the forum. There is much good advice here, and plenty of sympathetic people.  

I'm not sure, but I'm beginning to think that perhaps depression/anxiety can cause pac's and pvc's.  Mine seem to get worse when I'm feeling stressed out.  I've had them for 8 and a half years now, but also suffer from major depression and panic disorder.  I'm wondering if the heart thingy can be related.
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Avatar universal
Hi 808,
  Sorry to hear about your dad.  I've lost both grandfathers as well as one aunt to cancer, and I can't wait for the day a cure is found.  I'm so tired of the pain it wreaks on so many families daily, both physically and spiritually.
  I do have a question about the "flex" method you describe above.  I know the stance you're talking about, but what kind of timing is involved? (i.e. did you do it for 60 seconds, or for 5 seconds, then rest 5 seconds, then do it again for 10 minutes, etc.)  Also, did it cure your rhythm problem immediately, or did it take a few days?
  Thanks a lot!
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Avatar universal
After doing all right for a few weeks, my heart obsession has returned.  I hate pac's!  They scare me so much, yet my doctor and   cardiologist say my heart is fine.  I find at times like this I need constant reassurance.  Anyone want to email me, please do so:  ***@****.
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Avatar universal
Hi bella,
  Thanks for your post.  My condition is about the same, and I sure feel for you.  Keep us posted on what the EP says about your condition.  It sounds like you and I are having about the same number of the things everyday, and if the EP gives you any hope, I'd sure love to hear it.
  As for your hoping one day they will go away, I have a story for you.  I work with a man who was having 79,000 PACs per day.  Practically every other beat.  His lasted for 6 months, then went away.  That was 5 years ago, and he hasn't had any since.  So, there is some hope.  I've been suffering from them for a little over 3 months, so I'm still new to them and struggling to deal with them myself.  I'll sure take any advice on not allowing these things to control my life if you have some...  If you want to exchange email addresses for a little support group, let me know.  Good luck next week and take every opportunity to get your mind on other things.
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Avatar universal
Hi,
I was just reading your condition and I am wondering how you are doing.  It sounds like I am going through the same thing as you.  I have had these nasty PVC's since I was in college and have been really good for about 5 years (I am 28 year female) but these past few weeks they have "flared up" to about 10 or so every minute day and night!  I was hospitalized because I was so scared but the doctors say it's benign-don't worry (had other tests: the monitor, EKC, Echo and etc).  

Today I am feeling little bit better, I am on a calicum channel blocker medicine but I am still feeling them throughout the day  and night.  I am going to see an Electrophyist heart doctor (sorry don't know correct termonology) next week. I am so scared that he is going to tell me that my only option is Ablation.  That procedure doesn't sound promising to me and a bit scary.

I don't understand why SUDDENLY these PVC's are SO BAD right now and will not go away.  Is there anyone out there that gets them this bad?  I know I need to just accept and move on but I need some hope that someday they might get better or just go away.  I haven't read anyone that has had it this bad...please send some hope my way!
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Avatar universal
I can sympathize with all you frightened people out there...I get lots of pac's/pvc's and they scare me half to death even though I'v been told time and time again that they are harmless.  I just wish I didn't have the damn things.  Well, at least I know I'm not alone!  Best of luck to all of you.  If anyone has conquered their fear of this, please let me know!
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Avatar universal
I am a 29 year old male who has dealt with PVCs since 1995.  Have encountered only one instance where I had enough of them to visit the ER (this past March) . . . where they told me that they were benign -- they went away overnight.  Mysteriously, however, I have also been hospitalized twice in six years for two isolated episodes of paroxyml atrial fibrillation. Both episodes kept me in the hospital for two days, with my heart spontaneously reverting to normal sinus rhythm after about 15 hours. The most recent of these epidoses was last month, resulting in what I would characterize as a month-long bout of anxiety, frustration, sleepless nights and borderline depression.  I am scheduled to see an EP this week, and my doctor has put me on a small regiment of Zoloft to help calm my nerves.  I am also taking Ambien at night, which I highly recommend to anyone else having trouble sleeping with these things.  My aparent stress overload seems to be causing more-than-usual PVCs, especially at night, and also when exerting myself, taking a deep breath or yawning.  Just wanted to know if any of you PVC-suffers out there have ever had any episodes of A-fib as well, and your experiences.  I will say that reading your exchanges has been informative and therapeutic.
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Avatar universal
I appreciate the comments Chris.  You must have developed a great ability to control your mental faculties if you were able to teach and hold office hours while these things were happening.  I'm starting to get there.  They don't consume 100% of my grey matter like they did the first 6 weeks or so.  If you've got any advice on a coping strategy, I'd sure like to hear it as you've dealt with them far longer than I.
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Avatar universal
CLM
Just offering my sympathies -- I had to teach college courses and hold office hours with my heart skipping and pausing.  Horrible.  I am in fact learning to make peace with having this "chronic condition."  You will get there if you are determined to.  It has taken me five years of some pretty major pvc "storms" to get to this point of acceptance.  For some reason, this condition requires a lot of mental gymnastics to live with, but it can be done.  I think it requires a radical change of perspective.  But the payoff is that your whole life improves from your having had to do so much inner work on yourself.  Hang in there, and by all means keep those algorithms coming!
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Avatar universal
I too find Pvc's and Pac's more then scary .
When I started having an increase and so many within a minute on the ekg at the hospital it was hard to relax. I follow all my EP cardiologist advice and exercise daily, good diet and juicing. No caffeine, alcohol, chocolate for years , Since 27. I have 2 heart murmurs , mvp , cardiogenic syncope and at this time not taking any meds besides Vitamins.
Some days when they are in abundance I try to relax and know it is nothing I have done. I have a slow resting heart beat , once noted at 45 and low b/p 90/65, changes.
Have you tried a beta blocker ?
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Avatar universal
Hi Karie,
  I was prescribed a beta-blocker (Atenolol) by my family doctor when this all started, but got scared away from it as it seems to be a case of "cure is worse than the sickness" according to what I've read on the internet.  I've only had the PACs for 3 months, and if in another 3 months they aren't any better, I'm going to start taking the Atenolol.  I was just worried that my heart rate was so low at night that the beta-blocker might be dangerous.
  I struggle daily with instinct vs. reasoning on this.  My reasoning says "It's OK, these are benign, all the tests were normal, they won't hurt me".  While my instinct screams "MY HEART IS ABOUT TO STOP BEATING!!!".  I'm sure you probably go through the same thing, as do most people on this forum.
  Anyway, I'm an engineer, and trying to code up a brain-intensive algorithm while my heart goes through a premature electrical shock every 5 seconds is almost impossible, so I've got to something for the things if they don't get better.
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Avatar universal
I too thought that healthy lifestyle and following all the heart health guidelines would be better then a beta : atenolol. I am sensitive and find medications scary and why not when it is the heart and nervous system which reacts. Did your EP explain that the beta will lower your heart rhythm ?
Do you only feel the pvc's when at rest or when exercising as well ?
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Avatar universal
Thanks everybody for the feedback.  I'm hoping I learn to cope with these things better over the remainder of my life, and I hope you all do as well (or better yet find yourself cured of them).
Steve-UK, I fly quite often for business, and in the 3 months that I've had these things, I've flown from Alabama to Washington D.C. and back, and made 2 trips from Alabama to Colorado and back (2 legs on the flight, each 1.5 hours in duration).  It didn't affect the premature beats at all.  In fact, I find flying fun, and it actually helped get my mind off the little premature buggers!
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Avatar universal
Thanks Skip

I have not flown while I have had these PVCs but will be soon, its reassuring to know it doesn't affect someone else with them

Steve UK
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Avatar universal
Hello,

From time to time I search this forum myself for additional advice and for a "miracle cure" :-)  I just thought I could provide some advice based on personal experience only (I'm not a doctor).  My 24HR holter showed a heart rate of 38 and my resting rate is 46-48BPM, I'm athletic so it doesn't bother me the least bit, I thought that I would address your concern about your low resting rate.  Until your holter you probably never noticed your low rate, only until brought to your attention...  A low resting rate just means that your heart effectively produces enough "blood volume" for your body.  If you don't feel dizzy, breathless etc. then rejoice and be happy!  Before supporting your local Pharmaceutical Company try some natural methods.  See if you can lower your anxiety as a number one rule (any/all methods).  If you exercise, do you feel less symptomatic? Generally individuals with benign PVC
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Avatar universal
Does anyone know if flying can have any effect on someone suffering PVCs...like a 2 hour flight??

I was going to start a new thread but it says the quota for the day is up..so I stuck it on this PVC thread

Steve
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Avatar universal
Well, if it makes you feel any better, I understand TOTALLY.
I wore an event monitor for a month about a month ago - showed lots of PACs, some PVCs, tachycardia, brief bursts of PSVT. I finally decided to try beta blockers. I have been sooooo much worse the past month. It is awful. Since Friday, I've had runs of palpitations like I have never experienced before -- I feel breathless and weak and they will continue for hours.. It will be like a couple of skipped beats , normal beats, salvos of fast and or irregular beats.. a few minutes of normalcy and then repeat over and over.

ANY movement can make them worse -- turning  my head, walking up stairs, sitting down, eating, yawning.

I can NOT get my doctor to call me back. I am just beside myself. I don't know what to do.
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