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Skipped Heart Beats (PVC's
Hello Doctor, I wanted to take a moment to thank you for hosting this forum, I've posted once before and have found it very informative and helpful, thank you!
I have a few questions concerning PVC's & PAC's. I have been evaluted by two different cardiologists with a battery of tests and everthing is normal, noted 1/2 apical ejection (flow) murmur only (28 year old male, 5' 11", 190LBS, athletic).
1. From what I understand now, PVC's & PAC's are not harmful, is either worse than the other? ie. more PVC's
2. Is the sensation of a skipped beat the result of an extra beat or is the sensation from the extra flow of blood resulting from a longer pause in the heart rythm?
3. If an individual is experiencing for example 1,000 PAC's/PVC's on a daily basis, does that signify an extra 1,000 beats? Wouldn't these extra beats over a span of an average life "tire" the heart muscle?
4. I notice in my resting pulse only (around 48-52BPM) that sometimes after relaxing from either a work-out or just normal activity that a few beats are longer apart then others, however this is pattern is repeatitive, meaning the longer pause are not totally random but will repeat after the same number of beats per minute. My question is what's considered and irregular to regular pulse?
5. From your experience with past and present patients, have you seen any individuals experiencing PVC's/PAC's every go away entirely?
6. Are they the cause of some part of SA/NA node's deteriating?
7. Lastly on average, individuals with normal healthy hearts with benign PVC's/PAC's develop other serious conditions?
I have a few questions concerning PVC's & PAC's. I have been evaluted by two different cardiologists with a battery of tests and everthing is normal, noted 1/2 apical ejection (flow) murmur only (28 year old male, 5' 11", 190LBS, athletic).
1. From what I understand now, PVC's & PAC's are not harmful, is either worse than the other? ie. more PVC's
2. Is the sensation of a skipped beat the result of an extra beat or is the sensation from the extra flow of blood resulting from a longer pause in the heart rythm?
3. If an individual is experiencing for example 1,000 PAC's/PVC's on a daily basis, does that signify an extra 1,000 beats? Wouldn't these extra beats over a span of an average life "tire" the heart muscle?
4. I notice in my resting pulse only (around 48-52BPM) that sometimes after relaxing from either a work-out or just normal activity that a few beats are longer apart then others, however this is pattern is repeatitive, meaning the longer pause are not totally random but will repeat after the same number of beats per minute. My question is what's considered and irregular to regular pulse?
5. From your experience with past and present patients, have you seen any individuals experiencing PVC's/PAC's every go away entirely?
6. Are they the cause of some part of SA/NA node's deteriating?
7. Lastly on average, individuals with normal healthy hearts with benign PVC's/PAC's develop other serious conditions?
Dear alex,
1. From what I understand now, PVC's & PAC's are not harmful, is either worse than the other? ie. more PVC's
A: You are correct that in general PVCs and PACs are not harmful. If one could be considered more potentially dangerous I suppose it would have to be PVCs, which if present in persons with heart disease may indicate the need for treatment.
2. Is the sensation of a skipped beat the result of an extra beat or is the sensation from the extra flow of blood resulting from a longer pause in the heart rythm?
A: The sensation is from the beat following the premature beat. This is because following the premature beat there is a pause during which time the heart fills with additional blood. The extra blood results in a stronger contraction and the sensation that many people have.
3. If an individual is experiencing for example 1,000 PAC's/PVC's on a daily basis, does that signify an extra 1,000 beats? Wouldn't these extra beats over a span of an average life "tire" the heart muscle?
A: No, they are not really "extra" beats but only "early" or premature beats coming slightly before the regular beat would have come. When you have a PVC or PAC the regular beat is sppressed so the number of heart beats over the day is the same.
4. I notice in my resting pulse only (around 48-52BPM) that sometimes after relaxing from either a work-out or just normal activity that a few beats are longer apart then others, however this is pattern is repeatitive, meaning the longer pause are not totally random but will repeat after the same number of beats per minute. My question is what's considered and irregular to regular pulse?
A: This is normal and is called heart rate variability. It is linked to your breathing and autonomic nervous system and is a sign of good heart health.
5. From your experience with past and present patients, have you seen any individuals experiencing PVC's/PAC's every go away entirely?
A: Usually they do not go away but over time many individuals stop noticing them.
6. Are they the cause of some part of SA/NA node's deteriating?
A: No.
7. Lastly on average, what percentage of individuals with normal healthy hearts and benign PVC's/PAC's develop other serious conditions?
A: This would be no different from the public in general. There is no data that individuals with PVCs or PACs are at higher risk for developing serious health problems.
1. From what I understand now, PVC's & PAC's are not harmful, is either worse than the other? ie. more PVC's
A: You are correct that in general PVCs and PACs are not harmful. If one could be considered more potentially dangerous I suppose it would have to be PVCs, which if present in persons with heart disease may indicate the need for treatment.
2. Is the sensation of a skipped beat the result of an extra beat or is the sensation from the extra flow of blood resulting from a longer pause in the heart rythm?
A: The sensation is from the beat following the premature beat. This is because following the premature beat there is a pause during which time the heart fills with additional blood. The extra blood results in a stronger contraction and the sensation that many people have.
3. If an individual is experiencing for example 1,000 PAC's/PVC's on a daily basis, does that signify an extra 1,000 beats? Wouldn't these extra beats over a span of an average life "tire" the heart muscle?
A: No, they are not really "extra" beats but only "early" or premature beats coming slightly before the regular beat would have come. When you have a PVC or PAC the regular beat is sppressed so the number of heart beats over the day is the same.
4. I notice in my resting pulse only (around 48-52BPM) that sometimes after relaxing from either a work-out or just normal activity that a few beats are longer apart then others, however this is pattern is repeatitive, meaning the longer pause are not totally random but will repeat after the same number of beats per minute. My question is what's considered and irregular to regular pulse?
A: This is normal and is called heart rate variability. It is linked to your breathing and autonomic nervous system and is a sign of good heart health.
5. From your experience with past and present patients, have you seen any individuals experiencing PVC's/PAC's every go away entirely?
A: Usually they do not go away but over time many individuals stop noticing them.
6. Are they the cause of some part of SA/NA node's deteriating?
A: No.
7. Lastly on average, what percentage of individuals with normal healthy hearts and benign PVC's/PAC's develop other serious conditions?
A: This would be no different from the public in general. There is no data that individuals with PVCs or PACs are at higher risk for developing serious health problems.
I can answer question #5 since I just received the results of a completed 24 hour holter monitor, an ECG, and annual exam after contracting both PVCs (292) and PACs (590)for a week.
They have all but subsided after nearly two weeks. I had a similar problem three years ago. They came and went.
Even for two years after Aortic Valve replacement surgery in 4/2000 I had few if any beats that were unusual.
Mine, I attribute to 1)mitral valve leak in the +1-2 range and slight prolapse as the 'stage set' and then 2)'the player' my errant diet, with a confirmation by my cardiologist that MSG and very unusually high salt intake (made my own cured Salmon) in the days before onset acted as the precip event. Caffiene on top of it was likely an additional contributing factor. Once I metaboized the salt and MSG and cut out salt and the caffeine back to 1/3 for a few days, things returned pretty much to normal, but they NEVER go away entirely.
Every once in a while, I get the heart hiccups.
They have all but subsided after nearly two weeks. I had a similar problem three years ago. They came and went.
Even for two years after Aortic Valve replacement surgery in 4/2000 I had few if any beats that were unusual.
Mine, I attribute to 1)mitral valve leak in the +1-2 range and slight prolapse as the 'stage set' and then 2)'the player' my errant diet, with a confirmation by my cardiologist that MSG and very unusually high salt intake (made my own cured Salmon) in the days before onset acted as the precip event. Caffiene on top of it was likely an additional contributing factor. Once I metaboized the salt and MSG and cut out salt and the caffeine back to 1/3 for a few days, things returned pretty much to normal, but they NEVER go away entirely.
Every once in a while, I get the heart hiccups.
Thanks for the comment Gary, I had all those tests as well, I've been assured that my "valvetrain" and "structure" are all normal. I'm glad to hear that your doing well after your surgery, hopefully my normal heart will stay that way, including all the valves for a lifetime... Thanks and take care, Alex.
Hi there Fred, thanks for the info, you sound like a Cardiologist yourself. If PVC's/PAC's are a predictor for sudden death, then wouldn't every single person be on "death row". I've been told that every single human being in this world gets PVC's/PAC's occasionally? I'm wondering if the stress due to mild weight trainning and moderate physical acitivity over the last 15 years or so is a possibe underlying factor? Anyways, It also appears to get worse with time... PS. How old are you and did you actually have a Heart attack? Wouldn't a Echo & EKG confirm that?
Thanks, Alex.
Thanks, Alex.
What are considered worse?
premature atrial contractions or premature ventricular contractions?
is one considered more harmful then the other especially concerning exercise?
I tend to notice mine after excercise or say a heavy meal or when I have gas ect..I have found that eating very small meals has made a substantial difference.
premature atrial contractions or premature ventricular contractions?
is one considered more harmful then the other especially concerning exercise?
I tend to notice mine after excercise or say a heavy meal or when I have gas ect..I have found that eating very small meals has made a substantial difference.
This is a very informaive exchange of comments and I wouldlike to aadd my own, After triple CABG and AVR (ST.Jude) in June 2000 I remained completely awareof every single heart beat. At first they were hard fast beats which the cardios said to ignore and that they would go away. They never did. About 6 months ago I started with missbeats and after an ER visit the diagnosis was - No arrhythmia but SINUS ARRHYTHMIA! Which according to Fred is nothing to wprry about. Echos revealed slight valve regugitation - tricuspid and may be pulmonary. A 30 day monitor also revealed PACs/PVCs? but still the medical advice is to ignore these. But how can I when they awake me at 4am and its impossible to sleep after these episodes which have become quite frequent and are increasing in duration (1-3 hrs). The PACs/PVCs also seem to be highly related to what and when I eat particularly at dinner time. As a diabetic I monitor my blood glucose regularly and the missbeats also seem to be related to moderately low BG. I am on Coumadin and sleep tablets and sedatives also help but I cannot be on these forever. Would appreciate comments or advice from anyone with similar condition or can be contacted at ***@****
Thanks,
ChrisR
Thanks,
ChrisR
Thanks for your prompt reply. I have had a loop monitor but not the Holter. That sounds like a better idea. Yes I have tried Atenolol which initially slowed my heart rate to the point that I could hardly hear it and I really thought that it had solved the hard fast beats. But then after about a week I started with the skips or PACs/PVCs and they persisted even with a fraction of the 25mg Atenolol tablet. I had to be weaned off it. Later tried Cardizem but with almost the same effects. I have been prescribed Verapimil on my last visit to the cardio but have not decided to try it as yet. Do you have any experience with Verapimil? Like yourself I have noticed the skips only when the HR slows down so I worry about the Beta blockers or anything that will have the same effect. Since I am in the USVI (St.Croix) I usually must go off island (usually PR) for most of my treatment. I am thinking about the Texas Arrhythmia Institute in Houston. Have you heard of TAI or would you recommend somewhere else? Thanks again.
ChrisR
ChrisR
I have been reading about PVC & PACS, but don,t really understand what they mean. I am nearly 80, and have been having occasional extra heart beats, followed by a pause, for over a year. At times it is two normal beats, followed by a pause for what seems a long time very early in the mornings. towards morning It lengthens out to about nine normal beats and an extra one and a pause. I take medication at 6 am, Monopril, Metoprolol, and a diuretic. By seven my heartbeat is normal, 65 per min. and regular. It comes back, at times, late afternoon. Medication again at 6 pm. Metoprolol,Lescol, Aspirin. Symptons go away before Nine PM. I have been worried about this, and called my Docs office. They said "Don,t worry about it" I need a second opinion on it. I am a pretty active guy, walk, garden etc., have had high blood pressure, but it is under control.
Hi! I just can't express the joy I am feeling at this very moment after learning that I am not alone! I have been bothered with PVCs and palps since the age of 13. I am now 21 and still being annoyed daily by all the weird sensations. Since I can't ever seem to post my question with the doc, I was wondering if someone might be able to PLEASE answer this question for me. You see, not only do I get the funny feeling heart skips, but sometimes my heart feels like it completely stops for a brief second and I feel this wave of fear wash over my entire body. I also feel this fluttering in my neck sometimes. Has anyone else experienced the long pause followed by the wave or the fluttering in the neck??? I see my cardio doc once a year and everything looks normal. Also, God bless you all and keep your heads up!! I know it's tough, but we can get through this aggravating stuff if we all continue to help eachother.
hi hank I have a questions for you. Why is running decreasing the intensity and frequency of pvc? If I don't run I know that is going to be a "terrible" day where I will be able to feel every forceable heart beat? do you a have a theory behind running and reduction of pvc? thanks, paola 37
I'd like to offer my experiences with PVCs. After several years of occasional PVCs (one here and there), I had a lengthy out of bronchitis, followed by PVCs (many thousands per day). It was incredibly debilitating and depressing, so I sympathize completely with the many posts I've been reading here. During the first week I was in the ER receiving fluids and magnesium shots. After the initial exams, including a treadmill stress test that was completely normal, I was told the PVCs were benign and given Atenelol (beta blocker). It made things worse. I felt dizzy and sick, and I hated the feeling that my heartbeat was being artificially altered. That's when I intensified my search for alternative treatments. It has been about a month, and I still have the PVCs, but they are lighter, and no longer dominating my life and keeping me awake at night. Honestly, they are still at times uncomfortable, but the improvement has been significant. This is what I am doing:
1. No caffeine or alcohol
2. Daily Supplements: 600 mg Magnesium Glycinate, 800 mg Vitamin E, CoQ 10 (100 mg) for heart function, EmergenC (1 packet after exercising; it is a great electrolyte replacement)
3. Smaller meals, especially in the evening. I try not to eat after 8 PM
4. I run 3 miles a day on the treadmill. The immediate benefit of running (or any true aerobic exercise) is that it slightly elevates my heartbeat for a few hours after running. This all but eliminates the PVCs, and as they gradually return, they are lighter. My gut feeling is that daily aerobic exercise (at least 30 minutes) is the most important factor for controlling benign PVCs.
5. Yoga 3-4 times per week.
6. Meditation: I use a CD to help with the process. I'm not doing this as much as I should, but when I do, the effects are noticeable.
7. If I'm feeling anxious, or experiencing stronger PVCs at night, I take Five Flower Formula, a homeopathic remedy that is a natural stress reliever.
8. Finally, I try not to take my pulse constantly, an exercise that only seems to contribute to my stress level.
Since doing all this, I've experienced the following positive changes:
1. Frequency of PVCs is greatly reduced.
2. I can fall asleep easily, even with light PVCs.
3. I can once again sleep on my left side.
4. Resting heart rate is lower, which reduces the intensity of the PVCs.
Sorry for the long post. I hope this is helpful.
Mark
1. No caffeine or alcohol
2. Daily Supplements: 600 mg Magnesium Glycinate, 800 mg Vitamin E, CoQ 10 (100 mg) for heart function, EmergenC (1 packet after exercising; it is a great electrolyte replacement)
3. Smaller meals, especially in the evening. I try not to eat after 8 PM
4. I run 3 miles a day on the treadmill. The immediate benefit of running (or any true aerobic exercise) is that it slightly elevates my heartbeat for a few hours after running. This all but eliminates the PVCs, and as they gradually return, they are lighter. My gut feeling is that daily aerobic exercise (at least 30 minutes) is the most important factor for controlling benign PVCs.
5. Yoga 3-4 times per week.
6. Meditation: I use a CD to help with the process. I'm not doing this as much as I should, but when I do, the effects are noticeable.
7. If I'm feeling anxious, or experiencing stronger PVCs at night, I take Five Flower Formula, a homeopathic remedy that is a natural stress reliever.
8. Finally, I try not to take my pulse constantly, an exercise that only seems to contribute to my stress level.
Since doing all this, I've experienced the following positive changes:
1. Frequency of PVCs is greatly reduced.
2. I can fall asleep easily, even with light PVCs.
3. I can once again sleep on my left side.
4. Resting heart rate is lower, which reduces the intensity of the PVCs.
Sorry for the long post. I hope this is helpful.
Mark
Hi Mark,
it's great to hear about someone who definately hasa a control on this.I would like to thank you for giving us great advice.I will surely put them to use.Thanks again.
it's great to hear about someone who definately hasa a control on this.I would like to thank you for giving us great advice.I will surely put them to use.Thanks again.
I have had skipped beats. It comes and goes. As for nutrition, I believe that taking fish oil (or eating salmon or fatty fish twice a week) daily will definitely reduce the risk of cardic death. Also, I find that magnesium, copper, selenium, and calcium are important for regulating heart beats.
Be aware that taking too much zinc will cause copper deficiency. Copper deficiency causes irregular heartbeats. There is no copper supplement (only in multimineral supplement, not a standalone copper) as I know of but you can get some from cooking acidic food in copper pots or wearing copper bracelets (although copper bracelets don't give enough copper for a day).
Studies show that eating fatty fish twice a week significantly reduces heart deaths and irregular heartbeats by up to 50%. It is believed that the fatty acids in fish help regulate heartbeats.
Magnesium is effective at controlling heartbeats. I don't know if taking it in a supplement will help. From what I read, it's usually done through shots or prescribed medication.
And yes, be sure to exercise. Exercise help streghten heart muscles and saturate the blood with oxygen. Also, you'd feel more toned and more active.
-jeff
Be aware that taking too much zinc will cause copper deficiency. Copper deficiency causes irregular heartbeats. There is no copper supplement (only in multimineral supplement, not a standalone copper) as I know of but you can get some from cooking acidic food in copper pots or wearing copper bracelets (although copper bracelets don't give enough copper for a day).
Studies show that eating fatty fish twice a week significantly reduces heart deaths and irregular heartbeats by up to 50%. It is believed that the fatty acids in fish help regulate heartbeats.
Magnesium is effective at controlling heartbeats. I don't know if taking it in a supplement will help. From what I read, it's usually done through shots or prescribed medication.
And yes, be sure to exercise. Exercise help streghten heart muscles and saturate the blood with oxygen. Also, you'd feel more toned and more active.
-jeff
I was diagnosed with PVCs several years ago. I went through several recurring episodes, and after investigation was told they could be due to a slight prolapse of my mitral valve. After understanding what was happening, I relaxed and the episodes were less frequent. I continued to monitor myself and found that any occurence was only during PMS (I'm female). I thought it was due to the emotional stress that I felt at those times. But now that I'm 49 and quite sure I'm in peri-menopause, I'm having very frequent occurences again. But there seems to be a pattern with my monthly cycles, and I'm sure my hormones are surging and fluctuating. Has anyone (female) experienced PVCs during their cycles? I would be very interested in finding out if they have any relation to hormone levels. Dusty111
I think the consensus that pacs/maybe pvcs must be benign in normal hearts is due to the fact that a few studies have shown that most healthy people have these everyday - although mainly isolated premature beats, this study is an eg.
Holter monitor findings in asymptomatic male military aviators without structural heart disease.
Folarin VA, Fitzsimmons PJ, Kruyer WB.
Aeromedical Consultation Service, USAF School of Aerospace Medicine, Brooks AFB, TX 78235-5117, USA.
PURPOSE: Our study was designed to determine the spectrum of Holter monitor findings in normal male military aviators to establish a reference for aircrew populations with cardiac related diagnoses. METHODS: We identified all individuals with normal cardiac catheterization in the United States Air
Force Aeromedical Consultation Service cardiac catheterization database from January 1984 to December 1998. Cases with valvular disease, left or right bundle branch block, and referral diagnoses of ectopy or arrhythmia were then excluded. Results of Holter monitor studies performed on the remaining aviators prior to cardiac catheterization were then collected and tabulated. Frequency of isolated ectopy was classified as a percentage of the total beats on the Holter monitor: rare (< or =0.1%), occasional (>0.1 to 1.0%), frequent (>1.0 to 10%) and very frequent (>10%). RESULTS: From 1575 consecutive cardiac catheterizations reviewed, 303 aviators met the above inclusion criteria. Only 36 of 303 (11.9%) had no ectopy at all. Rare, occasional, frequent and very frequent isolated atrial ectopy occurred in 72.9%, 2.6%, 2.3% and 0.3%, respectively. The same categories of isolated ventricular ectopy occurred in 40.9%, 7.9%, 3.3% and 0.0%. Atrial and ventricular pairs occurred in 14.5% and 4.3%, respectively. Nonsustained supraventricular and
ventricular tachycardia (duration 3 to 10 beats) occurred in 4.3% (13/303) and 0.7% (2/303), respectively. There were no sustained supraventricular or ventricular tachycardias. CONCLUSIONS: In this population, absence of ectopy is unusual while rare isolated ectopy is common. These findings may help define the aeromedical/clinical significance of Holter monitors performed on aircrew with underlying cardiac complaints or diagnoses.
Holter monitor findings in asymptomatic male military aviators without structural heart disease.
Folarin VA, Fitzsimmons PJ, Kruyer WB.
Aeromedical Consultation Service, USAF School of Aerospace Medicine, Brooks AFB, TX 78235-5117, USA.
PURPOSE: Our study was designed to determine the spectrum of Holter monitor findings in normal male military aviators to establish a reference for aircrew populations with cardiac related diagnoses. METHODS: We identified all individuals with normal cardiac catheterization in the United States Air
Force Aeromedical Consultation Service cardiac catheterization database from January 1984 to December 1998. Cases with valvular disease, left or right bundle branch block, and referral diagnoses of ectopy or arrhythmia were then excluded. Results of Holter monitor studies performed on the remaining aviators prior to cardiac catheterization were then collected and tabulated. Frequency of isolated ectopy was classified as a percentage of the total beats on the Holter monitor: rare (< or =0.1%), occasional (>0.1 to 1.0%), frequent (>1.0 to 10%) and very frequent (>10%). RESULTS: From 1575 consecutive cardiac catheterizations reviewed, 303 aviators met the above inclusion criteria. Only 36 of 303 (11.9%) had no ectopy at all. Rare, occasional, frequent and very frequent isolated atrial ectopy occurred in 72.9%, 2.6%, 2.3% and 0.3%, respectively. The same categories of isolated ventricular ectopy occurred in 40.9%, 7.9%, 3.3% and 0.0%. Atrial and ventricular pairs occurred in 14.5% and 4.3%, respectively. Nonsustained supraventricular and
ventricular tachycardia (duration 3 to 10 beats) occurred in 4.3% (13/303) and 0.7% (2/303), respectively. There were no sustained supraventricular or ventricular tachycardias. CONCLUSIONS: In this population, absence of ectopy is unusual while rare isolated ectopy is common. These findings may help define the aeromedical/clinical significance of Holter monitors performed on aircrew with underlying cardiac complaints or diagnoses.
Everone acknowledges that occassional PACs/PVCs are common and benign. Even Fred would agree with that.
I think the problem is when there are tons of them showing up. Most doctors are disinclined to suggest they may be of some concern, since the textbook response is to provide assurance to the patient...assuming all else is ok; this is a tactic devised to avoid undo anxiety which is known to exacerbate the arrhythmia...and "if they really bother you you can always take some meds." Ablation technology is fast approaching the day when an overactive case of PACs/PVCs may be worth the risk to treat.
Fred and others are concerned that this tactic was developed as a result of ignorance of what it means to have a constant arrhythmic barrage (for example, 1-6 PACs or PVCs / min on average). Is that just a pain in the a** or is it a situation that leads to the development of more serious concerns?
I agree with Fred that there is no definitive study which would identify the risks due to persistent ectopy, and furthermore, given that PVCs are generally considered to be somewhat more of a concern, what the risks are from persistent PVCs.
I think the problem is when there are tons of them showing up. Most doctors are disinclined to suggest they may be of some concern, since the textbook response is to provide assurance to the patient...assuming all else is ok; this is a tactic devised to avoid undo anxiety which is known to exacerbate the arrhythmia...and "if they really bother you you can always take some meds." Ablation technology is fast approaching the day when an overactive case of PACs/PVCs may be worth the risk to treat.
Fred and others are concerned that this tactic was developed as a result of ignorance of what it means to have a constant arrhythmic barrage (for example, 1-6 PACs or PVCs / min on average). Is that just a pain in the a** or is it a situation that leads to the development of more serious concerns?
I agree with Fred that there is no definitive study which would identify the risks due to persistent ectopy, and furthermore, given that PVCs are generally considered to be somewhat more of a concern, what the risks are from persistent PVCs.
I tend to agree with Arthur and Fred,
Why ? I too have seen no study that indicates let alone conclude that PVC's/PAC's are in fact a benign condition. I have seen many statements on web pages and had many assurance's from each GP I have seen (I'm based in the UK). I too have had numerous ECG/EKGs Treadmill Stress Test, Echo and Thalium tests. All revelaing a structurally normal heart. The big BUT is that I suffer from 'Painful' PVCS which currently as I write I'm now on my 3rd day of what I call a run where I get 2-4 a minute (yes a minute) every minute of every hour for a couple of hours a few minutes to an hours rest before the cycle begins again. Prior to this run I have had 5 days of relative calm with maybe only 10-20 thumpers in a day. I do not drink or smoke. I do not ingest aspartame or MSG. No caffiene. I eat plenty of oily fish mackerel/sardines drink only water eat fresh vegatables and plan to start excercising as soon as I get over my fear of dropping dead. I have had the holter monitor but that was on a good day and only a few PVC/PAC's were recorded. I don't consider this a benign condition and I am seriously looking to be ablated. My experience started in November of last year and I still haven't come to terms or got a grip on this condition. Hard evidence from a study would help to ease my mind. Until that day I will take my condition more seriously than my doctors do and will endevour to do my best to keep myself as healthy as I can.
Just to pour more hot water onto this topic - I get light headed and tired so easily with the frequency of these things and I get a hell of a lot of chest pain plus the elctrical pins and needles down the arm.I also experience the most sickening feeling in my stomach when get a run of these. Once I experienced a 4 back to back beat skip beat skip which scared the **** out of me. BUT I'm still here. After seeing many GP's here and a cardiologist I still am and will be forever told that they are benign.
Yours absolutely baffled in the UK Richard.
Why ? I too have seen no study that indicates let alone conclude that PVC's/PAC's are in fact a benign condition. I have seen many statements on web pages and had many assurance's from each GP I have seen (I'm based in the UK). I too have had numerous ECG/EKGs Treadmill Stress Test, Echo and Thalium tests. All revelaing a structurally normal heart. The big BUT is that I suffer from 'Painful' PVCS which currently as I write I'm now on my 3rd day of what I call a run where I get 2-4 a minute (yes a minute) every minute of every hour for a couple of hours a few minutes to an hours rest before the cycle begins again. Prior to this run I have had 5 days of relative calm with maybe only 10-20 thumpers in a day. I do not drink or smoke. I do not ingest aspartame or MSG. No caffiene. I eat plenty of oily fish mackerel/sardines drink only water eat fresh vegatables and plan to start excercising as soon as I get over my fear of dropping dead. I have had the holter monitor but that was on a good day and only a few PVC/PAC's were recorded. I don't consider this a benign condition and I am seriously looking to be ablated. My experience started in November of last year and I still haven't come to terms or got a grip on this condition. Hard evidence from a study would help to ease my mind. Until that day I will take my condition more seriously than my doctors do and will endevour to do my best to keep myself as healthy as I can.
Just to pour more hot water onto this topic - I get light headed and tired so easily with the frequency of these things and I get a hell of a lot of chest pain plus the elctrical pins and needles down the arm.I also experience the most sickening feeling in my stomach when get a run of these. Once I experienced a 4 back to back beat skip beat skip which scared the **** out of me. BUT I'm still here. After seeing many GP's here and a cardiologist I still am and will be forever told that they are benign.
Yours absolutely baffled in the UK Richard.
interesting thread.
I suspect I've also had PVCs for a long time. For me, there were 3 things that would always contribute to this (large amounts of coffee, severe lack of sleep, and severe levels of stress)
I'm wondering how these items really factor in, and if they physcially create irritations. (39 yr old male, HS and College Athlete, never smoked, no drugs, Blood Pressure about 124/78, otherwise in excellent physical health)
I suspect mine is a unique case. Stress and anxiety was unprecedented for me last year: my sister was diagnosed with breast cancer in March, my dad died in July, My office was in the World Trade Center & was there on sept 11th (made it out, thank god), and then spent the next few months stressing about my job and what the future would be for my company and my employment. Very bad times. Very emotional time, nightmares, waking up feeling my heart pounding and out-of-breath, you name it.
Related or concidence: Two weeks after 9/11 I blacked out during some heavy exercise (I was not exercising regularly at that point). The last thing I remember, I felt a very strong sensation, like a PVC in my chest. A trip to the ER showed nothing. For the next 6-7 months I just seemed to notice PVCs more. Maybe singles, other times pairs. I started a reasonable exercise program and eventually lost 20 lbs. But I still felt irritable and had huge problems trying to sleep. After a couple of sleepless nights a few months back I felt a very bad "run" on my way to work, even made me feel dizzy. A trip to the ER documented a short run of V-tach along with the PVCs.
On for tests: A cardiac cath showed my arteries big and open, but an electro-physiology study found I was able to be induced , after much prodding, for V-tach (they hit me with the defib while I was still wide awake, no meds, boy that felt wonderful - I still have flashbacks and panic attacks from this alone). I also had two very short runs of V-tach immediately after the EPS study.
At my request I was transferred to what is considered a leading heart hosp in the NY area. There they performed an MRI, which showed nothing unusual, but an echo showed a septal buldge. I also have mitro valve prolapse. This, they concluded, may or may not be contributing. In the end there was enough evidence to give me an ICD, which was done the next day.
The conclusion was that a beta blocker was the treatment, and that the ICD was the insurance policy. What is mind boggling to me is that the Docs feel I will be absolutely fine! "Normal life"
So now I'm back at the Gym, getting plenty of rest (I'll sleep an hr or 2 extra in AM if I dont get enough rest at night), no coffee, no alcohol, period.
I still feel PVCs (which is why/how I found this site in the first place). I certainly feel them (or they occur more) when I think or obsess about it - thats for darn sure.
So now I'm still trying to understand how I went from not feeling anything to do with my heart for years and years (darn I used to run 12 miles a day, and I'd push myself to near exhaustion) to the point where I'm feeling these stupid PVCs and even had a short run of V-tach. Go figure.
I suspect I've also had PVCs for a long time. For me, there were 3 things that would always contribute to this (large amounts of coffee, severe lack of sleep, and severe levels of stress)
I'm wondering how these items really factor in, and if they physcially create irritations. (39 yr old male, HS and College Athlete, never smoked, no drugs, Blood Pressure about 124/78, otherwise in excellent physical health)
I suspect mine is a unique case. Stress and anxiety was unprecedented for me last year: my sister was diagnosed with breast cancer in March, my dad died in July, My office was in the World Trade Center & was there on sept 11th (made it out, thank god), and then spent the next few months stressing about my job and what the future would be for my company and my employment. Very bad times. Very emotional time, nightmares, waking up feeling my heart pounding and out-of-breath, you name it.
Related or concidence: Two weeks after 9/11 I blacked out during some heavy exercise (I was not exercising regularly at that point). The last thing I remember, I felt a very strong sensation, like a PVC in my chest. A trip to the ER showed nothing. For the next 6-7 months I just seemed to notice PVCs more. Maybe singles, other times pairs. I started a reasonable exercise program and eventually lost 20 lbs. But I still felt irritable and had huge problems trying to sleep. After a couple of sleepless nights a few months back I felt a very bad "run" on my way to work, even made me feel dizzy. A trip to the ER documented a short run of V-tach along with the PVCs.
On for tests: A cardiac cath showed my arteries big and open, but an electro-physiology study found I was able to be induced , after much prodding, for V-tach (they hit me with the defib while I was still wide awake, no meds, boy that felt wonderful - I still have flashbacks and panic attacks from this alone). I also had two very short runs of V-tach immediately after the EPS study.
At my request I was transferred to what is considered a leading heart hosp in the NY area. There they performed an MRI, which showed nothing unusual, but an echo showed a septal buldge. I also have mitro valve prolapse. This, they concluded, may or may not be contributing. In the end there was enough evidence to give me an ICD, which was done the next day.
The conclusion was that a beta blocker was the treatment, and that the ICD was the insurance policy. What is mind boggling to me is that the Docs feel I will be absolutely fine! "Normal life"
So now I'm back at the Gym, getting plenty of rest (I'll sleep an hr or 2 extra in AM if I dont get enough rest at night), no coffee, no alcohol, period.
I still feel PVCs (which is why/how I found this site in the first place). I certainly feel them (or they occur more) when I think or obsess about it - thats for darn sure.
So now I'm still trying to understand how I went from not feeling anything to do with my heart for years and years (darn I used to run 12 miles a day, and I'd push myself to near exhaustion) to the point where I'm feeling these stupid PVCs and even had a short run of V-tach. Go figure.
I am a 44 year old woman who has been diagnosed with mitral valve prolapse at the age of 20 and I have had palpitations since that time. I was not having palpitations for over 6 months, but last November, they started up again more frequent than I've ever experienced. I went to a cardiologist and had many tests including an event recorder, stress test, EKG. Everything was found to be ok.The event recorder showed numerous PVC's, but I was told not to be concerned. When I have these palpitations, it is very annoying and sometimes scary. I have been doing some reading about peri-menopause and the fact that this can increase palpitations and I am going to have some bloodwork done to see if this is the case. I have also read that progesterone cream can sometimes help with the palpitations. My gynecologist said he was not aware of this. I feel it is worth a try as nothing else seems to help. I also know that when I am anxious, my palpitations are much worse.
It's reassuring reading all the posts on this forum, yet I still have questions. Everyone says PVCs are benign in a normal heart, but what about someone who has 3 leaky valves? Is that considered a normal heart? Also, how long is a stress test good for? I've had some recent problems, and my doc just says "Oh, you had a good stress test a year ago, can't be your heart." Thanks for any info.
hi, john - I feel for you - I have experienced a serious period of stress during May 2001 and bang!!! the pvc showed up out of wood-work - I too used to be an avid runner - partially vegeterian, no alchool, no drug, no caffeine --- but I guess that is not so important - the pvc still appeared. I am 37, female.
Do you notice a decrease in pvc after you run? I do - and I wonder if it is just me or if there is a logical explanation for it. I have seen a total of 8 doctors - including 3 at John Hopkins and they all tell me the same story - they are benign - move on!!!! easy for them to say.
Hope all is well in n.y.
Italia64
Do you notice a decrease in pvc after you run? I do - and I wonder if it is just me or if there is a logical explanation for it. I have seen a total of 8 doctors - including 3 at John Hopkins and they all tell me the same story - they are benign - move on!!!! easy for them to say.
Hope all is well in n.y.
Italia64
Italia,
I generally feel better after exercise, but I've taken a pulse and there are still some isolated PVCs. So I may not feel them, but they are sometimes there.
I know for everyone its tough to trust the DR advice, but even me, as bad as I felt (in all honesty while in the hosp I didn't think I was going to make it - I was that bad emotionally) , I'm back going to the gym, working out, and sure enough I'm still here.
What's also interesting is I wore a monitor a month before I ended up in the hosp. I felt as though the monitor would show nothing since I felt fine for the 24 hr period I wore it, but the doc said he noted some extra beats.
I firmly suspect that while I may have been predisposed to such a thing (PVCs and even the v-tach), the extreme stress and anxiety brought all of this to the surface.
Now its a tough road to get my life back to normal. I do believe that when I feel calm, not anxious, not depressed, I do have fewer PVCs. But on the other hand, the sensation of a PVC is not that different from the start of a run of V-tach, which I now know is very serious. Sure, I have an ICD to hopefully correct anything serious, but the mind is a very powerful thing.
I generally feel better after exercise, but I've taken a pulse and there are still some isolated PVCs. So I may not feel them, but they are sometimes there.
I know for everyone its tough to trust the DR advice, but even me, as bad as I felt (in all honesty while in the hosp I didn't think I was going to make it - I was that bad emotionally) , I'm back going to the gym, working out, and sure enough I'm still here.
What's also interesting is I wore a monitor a month before I ended up in the hosp. I felt as though the monitor would show nothing since I felt fine for the 24 hr period I wore it, but the doc said he noted some extra beats.
I firmly suspect that while I may have been predisposed to such a thing (PVCs and even the v-tach), the extreme stress and anxiety brought all of this to the surface.
Now its a tough road to get my life back to normal. I do believe that when I feel calm, not anxious, not depressed, I do have fewer PVCs. But on the other hand, the sensation of a PVC is not that different from the start of a run of V-tach, which I now know is very serious. Sure, I have an ICD to hopefully correct anything serious, but the mind is a very powerful thing.
I too have had PVCs for at least 17 years off and on. They have caused me much anxiety and anguish as well as marital stife.
I am now 42, male, don't drink, don't smoke, no caffeine and no drugs. I regularly exercise (run about 10-15 miles per week) and lift weights a couple times per week.
My PVCs went away for a long time (about 5 years with nothing more than an occasional one once a month or so). About a year ago I started having a lot of stress at work and the darn things started happening again. I had lots of anxiety with them and started seeing a shrink. I even went on Paxil for a while for the anxiety, but the side affects from the drug was almost as bad as the anxiety itself. The PVCs eventually faded away and I was just about PVC for a year. Then I injured my back lifting weights and now they have come back in earnest.
After recent multiple trips to my family doctor, EKGs, Holter (didn't record any), an Echocardiagram, and a stress EKG my cardiologist says "don't let them freak you out.".
My question to the group is, how do you cope with things things ona daily basis? They cause me extreme anxiety when they are happening and whenthey are not, I am anxious of them starting!
Thanks.
I am now 42, male, don't drink, don't smoke, no caffeine and no drugs. I regularly exercise (run about 10-15 miles per week) and lift weights a couple times per week.
My PVCs went away for a long time (about 5 years with nothing more than an occasional one once a month or so). About a year ago I started having a lot of stress at work and the darn things started happening again. I had lots of anxiety with them and started seeing a shrink. I even went on Paxil for a while for the anxiety, but the side affects from the drug was almost as bad as the anxiety itself. The PVCs eventually faded away and I was just about PVC for a year. Then I injured my back lifting weights and now they have come back in earnest.
After recent multiple trips to my family doctor, EKGs, Holter (didn't record any), an Echocardiagram, and a stress EKG my cardiologist says "don't let them freak you out.".
My question to the group is, how do you cope with things things ona daily basis? They cause me extreme anxiety when they are happening and whenthey are not, I am anxious of them starting!
Thanks.
I have a very simple questions for the group. I recently visited my 8th doctors and he suggested to get off Toprol for the treatment of pvc/pac and begin with Acebutolol -which is the generic name for - Sectral - .
Apparently Sectral is specifically designed to treat both Hypertension and PVC. Does Sectral really works? What are the side effects? I am 37yrs old female and I like to exercise - I ran approximately 4 miles a day, don't smoke, don't drink. I also wonder how come my previous 7 doc's never came up with this drug. Is it because Toprol is right now the most "popular" beta blocker or is it because it works the best? In the product insert for Toprol I have actually read that Toprol can cause palpitation - boy who needs that !!!! - The product insert for Sectral speaks to the therapeutics effect that this drug has on pvc - and there is no mention that Sectral causes palpitations.
So for the Sectral users out there - does it really suppress the frequency of pvc and the strenght with which they come on???
Another question that i have for the group is: I can understand the PVC are benign in a structurally healthy heart.. but what happens with aging??? Elderly people usually have weaker heart - will aging make PVC more dangerous than what they are now at 37?
Italia
Apparently Sectral is specifically designed to treat both Hypertension and PVC. Does Sectral really works? What are the side effects? I am 37yrs old female and I like to exercise - I ran approximately 4 miles a day, don't smoke, don't drink. I also wonder how come my previous 7 doc's never came up with this drug. Is it because Toprol is right now the most "popular" beta blocker or is it because it works the best? In the product insert for Toprol I have actually read that Toprol can cause palpitation - boy who needs that !!!! - The product insert for Sectral speaks to the therapeutics effect that this drug has on pvc - and there is no mention that Sectral causes palpitations.
So for the Sectral users out there - does it really suppress the frequency of pvc and the strenght with which they come on???
Another question that i have for the group is: I can understand the PVC are benign in a structurally healthy heart.. but what happens with aging??? Elderly people usually have weaker heart - will aging make PVC more dangerous than what they are now at 37?
Italia
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