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v-tach in a "Healthy" Heart

I'm a 24 yr old male. Echo, stress test, stress echo, cardiac MRI, holter, and event monitors have all been normal besides "PVC's and a 26 beat run of ventricular tachycardia at 127bpms that self terminated

1.could an EP study and ablation make my v-tach worse or cause it to become dangerous later on in life? 2.Also how safe are EP studies? 3.Is ablation safe? 4.Whats the mortality rates for this procedure? 5.Should I get the EP study done or can this be benign? 6.Whats the chances of V-Fib and SCD during EP study and ablation? 7.How bad is it to have a 26 beat run of v-tach??

I also have came across some information about "Idiopathic Ventricular Fibrillation", and "Primary Ventricular Fibrillation" where it has occured in people with normal hearts, structural and electrical, with normal echos, holters, stress test, ep studies, cardiac mri's, so my question is how can one say that PVC's, and NSVT are benign in NORMAL hearts but they still have these cases of sudden death "v-fib" in people with NORMAL hearts???



I seen an EP today and he said that he thought it to be benign and called it Idiopathic Ventricular Tachycardia and I started asking questions and he said that just to be safe he wants to do an EP study next week. Can you explain an EP study? How safe are they to do? If he triggers a deadly arrythmia can they easily terminate it and keep me safe? What if he has to do an ablation, how safe is that? Just how benign is "Idiopathic Ventricular Tachycardia"? Can it develop into V-Fib? How bad is it to have a 26 beat run of v-tach?? Can you share your personal experiences and opinions? I also have been experiencing what feels like angina for about 2 yrs now and thats why I had the whole work up but all the test for that came back negative. ??



i also found on my copy of the cardionet report it says sinus rhythm with IVCD (Intraventricular Conduction Delay) and on the Diagnosis part it says (ICD-9): 426.9 conduction disorder, unspecified. sinus rhythm with IVCD shows like 3 different times on the report.  and 3 different times had ventricular tachycardia 25 beats, rate 124BPM, all the v-tach reports had 25beat runs with the highest rate 125BPM.  does any of this offer any additional info for this v-tach maybe not being benign?  does the IVCD pose more risk to SCD or v-fib with since i had documented v-tach?  



I found this article at www.orlive.com

The patient is a middle aged male who was resuscitated from a VF cardiac arrest.  Extensive cardiac evaluation showed no coronary artery disease, normal left and right ventricular function, normal cardiac MRI, and no inducible arrhythmias at EP study.  Frequent PVCs were noted on cardiac monitoring.  An ICD was implanted and continued to record episodes of non-sustained polymorphic VT, culminating in a sustained episode terminated by a shock.  Catheter ablation was performed targeting the ventricular ectopy

How can they call "Idiopathic Ventricular Tachycardia" benign if these types of cases are occuring? Dr's say that PVC's are benign and "V-Tach" is benign in a structurally normal heart and with all the test this man had proved his heart was "structurally normal" yet he still suffered cardiac arrest due to V-Fibb.  Anyone have any inputs on this situation?
I'm wearing a cardio-net monitor and they caught something. A brief history about me is "24 yr old male. cholesterol 245, ive been having this left side chest pain for about a yr now. ive had echo,ekgs,stress echo,holter monitor, event monitor, and blood work. i also have been experiencing pac's and pvc's. all my test were normal besides the event monitor which showed the pac's and pvc's.left side chest pain, radiating down my left arm and into my left hand,cold sweats, feeling lightheaded,about to pass out. I just received a call last night from the cardiologist on call and said that the monitor company called them with some irregularities in my heartbeat and asked if i was alright and talk to me today, today they called me in for a echocardiogram, and said that there was a run of V-Tach on my monitor and the beat was around 127. I felt it when it happened it felt like "back to back PVC's" and I'm assuming thats what they are referring to. I do drink beer everyday, (irrelevant or not)? My main concern is this happening again and developing into V-Fibb, which is deadly. 1.Could this cause v-fibb and SCD in my situation? 2. What could have caused this? 3. Is it possible for v-tach to be benign or is it always deadly? why haven't this ever been caught with the multiple of test that i had, holters and event monitors?? How dangerous is this? My pulse is always jumping around up and down.

Is it possible for v-tach to be benign or is it always deadly? why haven't this ever been caught with the multiple of test that i had, holters and event monitors?? How dangerous is this? My pulse is always jumping around up and down.
im so worried that this will develop into v-fib. 1.can you please explain to me how this can be harmless and not kill me? when it happens i can feel it and my chest feels all weird, i get really hot, and left side chest discomfort like right over my heart. the nurse said that the dr thought it MIGHT be SVT but wasn't sure and had a EP look at it and he scheduled me an appt to see him a week from now. im so scared and dont want to wait a week, obviously he found something dangerous if the EP wants to see me, right?? i have pvc's all the time and i guess that it what lead to the v-tach, they said from the echo that my heart was strong and normal. could this be an electrical problem, 2.could it be long qt syndrome that was never caught? 3.why would my heart be going into v-tach, its not normal?? i do notice after i drink alot of beer its worse the next day, 4.could that cause me to go into V-Fib? 5. is it more dangerous since i feel all the symptoms from it? i have very forceful pvc's. 6.what is a pvc's that occurs on a T wave, if a pvc occured at the wrong time could it kill me? please shed some light on this whole issue for me. THANK you so much!!!!!!!!!! i have a baby on the way and im so scared that these are harmful and i wont be there for him.

I also have been having it ALOT lately and it will wake me up, and sometimes it will make me cough so hard i see stars.  It happens sometimes and takes my breath away.  I feel it bouncing around in my chest.
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Avatar universal
I experience a pulse that I can feel ALL over my body, in every part and when I put my hand on my chest over my heart it feels as if it is about to beat out, VERY FORCEFUL!!, I can see my pulse in my neck, stomach, wrists, and it moves my shirt its so hard! It's when I start to feel really bad and my chest feels all weird and I just don't feel normal, and I feel kind of light headed and my heart feels irritable and I'll feel my chest and my heart is literally POUNDING, at a normal rate and everything but I'm talking about EXTREMELY forceful, what could this indicate? does that have anything to do with the runs of VT? I can see my pulse in my neck and other places that I've never noticed in anyone else, and I've made them let me look. lol.  what could this mean?  And Im by NO means at all skinny. please offer insight on this.  Thanks to EVERYONE!!!!!!!!
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1 Comments
Hi .just wondering are you still having the chest pains I see you have a post in over five years just checking up on your status.
967168 tn?1477584489
that's what I said too...I pinned my EP down and told him the cardiologist said yes from the test, symptoms & criteria - he said he would not 'saddle" me with the dx even though he implanted an icd for SCD during the eps he performed and originally told me ARVD - frustrated as HECK I insisted do I have it or not? he said "maybe" I left and didn't go back

if I have ARVD I do, but if not, I need to move on and find what I do have...my last cardiologist suggested HCM; I'm going to CC after my new insurance starts soon and finding an answer  - I had a CT before ablation so I'll have to send the the hospital and ask for a copy of that also - it wouldn't surprise me the EP's office doesn't have a copy of it -  what does a patient do when 2 ep's & 4 cardiologists - none agree to my dx or cause of problems
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367994 tn?1304953593
QUOTE: ....MRI said due to patient movement and wall motion movement, testing was inconclusive for ARVD - cardiologist said yes ARVD, EP said maybe since I had all the criteria and MRI was inconclusive.

>>>>>>It is true MRI, CAT scan will diagnose ARVD.  Although heart wall impairment (hypokinesis, positve for ARVD) , the MRI also provides images of the anatomy of the heart wall in question as does a CT scan.  It seems there would be some conclusion based on symptoms and tests!?
Cardiac (MRI) is recommended for the diagnosis of ARVD, as it visualizes fibro-fatty infiltration of the right ventricular (RV) myocardium. It also can show increased RV dimensions as well as wall-motion abnormalities. Unlike MRI, a CT scan can be performed if the patient has an implanted device (e.g. pacemaker, defibrillator).

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967168 tn?1477584489
no criteria for ARVD means 100% no arvd or other structural heart disease -  I was told cardiac MRI is the "gold standard" for diagnosis of ARVD

per my cardiac cath my last EF was 40%; cardiomyopathy was diagnosed then - my MRI said due to patient movement and wall motion movement, testing was inconclusive for ARVD - cardiologist said yes ARVD, EP said maybe since I had all the criteria and MRI was inconclusive

I'm still ticked they didn't biopsy my heart when they were in there for ablation or cardiac catherization; but I'm not a doctor so I don't know what they were thinking
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1124887 tn?1313754891
LV ejection fraction of 68%?! You lucky b...... ;)

Mine is 57% or so.. and I still live well :)
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159619 tn?1707018272
COMMUNITY LEADER
Again, it's all normal. You do not meet the criteria for ARVD as outlined by Dr. Richardson above.
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Avatar universal
my cardiac MRI came back normal, and it said "no criteria for RV dysplasia or other structural heart disease", does that rule out ARVD 100%?  it also said on the report that my LV Ejection fraction is 68%, and my RV Ejection fraction is 52%, is that good? normal cardiac chamber sizes, normal size thoractic aorta without aneurysm or dissection. Common pulmonary vein trunk which is normal variant otherwise normal pulmonary venous return.
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967168 tn?1477584489
I'm in no way getting in a discussion with the original poster again, but I have some questions for Marns35.

how were you dx with ARVD? what pointed dr's to your dx of ARVD and did you have a cardiac MRI or did they dx you based on symptoms?

I'm extremely curious because I was told I have ARVD but my mri was inconclusive so I was told it could or it couldn't be - I have several major and minor criteria but specialists said there was no way they were going to saddle me with the ARVD dx, even when my VT was sustained and I had SCA 3 times and had to have a PM/ICD implanted, along with a multitude of other things.

I have been trying for 15 months to get a dr to positively dx me with something and you've pretty much dx this poster with ARVD by what he says his test results are? amazing....

What is your medical background that gives you the knowledge to know the major and minor criteria for ARVD? If you do have a medical background, look at my profile, pictures and test results and tell me what I have - I've stumped 4 cardiologists, 2 ep's and 2 pcp's - dinner is on me if you get it right :P
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159619 tn?1707018272
COMMUNITY LEADER
I have to agree, we are in no way in a position to make a diagnosis. This individual has spoken to many, many doctors and cardiologists and just the mere mention of your post will send him to dozens more. I know for a fact by reading the multitude of his previous posts that this was addressed by several of the doctors. He has had one run of 26 beats, that is NOT ARVD.

By all indication and based on the feedback of many doctors he has a healthy heart and should move on.

By the way, I have never asked a question concerning this topic.
Helpful - 0
1124887 tn?1313754891
To you Cookienkikin, I'm afraid I can't help you anymore.

I've answered the exact same questions a dozen times now, and it seems you don't trust me. That's OK, but you should at least trust your cardiologists.

I know you feel this scary stuff everyday, but it's NOT your job to interpret the symptoms. The relevant question is: If you can't trust some of the best cardiologists and electrophysiologists in your country, then who should you trust? Yourself? I wouldn't take that chance.

Your questions is just a copy + paste of previous questions. You'll find the answers in the previous posts.

Helpful - 0
1124887 tn?1313754891
I'm sorry you got diagnosed with ARVD.

Anyway, I don't think it was a good idea to suggest this diagnosis for him, we are not doctors or cardiologists, and as you know, this diagnosis is based on advanced echocardiography and heart biopsy, not symptoms and descriptions on a forum.

Nonsustained V-tach or 1000+ PVCs /day is a minor criteria for the diagnosis, which requires 2 major or 4 minor criteria. Several % of us have short runs of NSVT, but only 1:3000 or so have ARVD.

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Avatar universal
I have looked at your countless questions.....and by the sounds you have ARVD...Arrythmogenic Right Ventricular Dyplasia...(sounds scary, but it took 3 years for me to be diagnosed).  I mostly presented in ER as a CARDIAC ARREST...left arm numb, pain in left side of chest etc.  The Dr's didnt have a clue, as it also presents as tacchycardia and braddychardia (excuse any mispells I am still on pain meds at the mo).  Lucky for me my GP is married to a cardiologist and diagnosed me with ARVD...so I was implanted with a pacemaker/ICD...he diagnosed it after 500 pics were taken of my heart...the right ventricle becomes layered with fat and sinuey deposits because it is trying so hard to pump the blood through.  Before the diagnosis I would suffer heart rates of up 220 which ended me into an ambulance with sirens and 20 staff around me in the ER...most of the cardiologists had never seen this condition their whole careers, as it is so rare.  Two days later I was given a pacemaker....at 35 I felt like the rug had been pulled from beneath me...I am still adjusting to the rules and regulations I must do with this device in my chest.  I wish you all the best and hope I have helped...but please dont panic...the ICD will keep you alive..if it is AVRD.
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159619 tn?1707018272
COMMUNITY LEADER
And there's your problem, you seem to have a very bad case of health anxiety, that's where you should be seeking help.
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Avatar universal
its just so hard to take all this in when i know how i feel each day, its like i could talk to 10000000 Drs, but as long as I still feel what I feel everyday and know how my body, and my heart is acting and what i experience then im not going to feel reassured because i know that its not normal to feel like this and experience v-tach, and PVC's constantly, and it just seems like its all getting worse as time goes on. i mean how confident could they be to say that this is totally benign and i just have to deal with the symptoms and it will not ever develop into anything dangerous? is it basically just a guess "or process of elimination" to them?
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159619 tn?1707018272
COMMUNITY LEADER
We all have, it's not helping you. Here's what one of the other Internet doctors told you recently. He is a former Chair of the Cardiology Department at the University of VA, I don't know more than he does and even he is getting frustrated with these questions. He has even looked at your EKG and you still don't believe what he says, how am I or anyone here supposed to top that?

QUESTION: if i send you a copy of the event monitor strip with the 26 beat run at a rate of 127bpm of v-tach would you be able to answer some of my questions? Also can u tell if it's polymorpic or what type of VT it is? And where it's from right ventricle outflow tract or where? And do u think it is a benign type?  Thanks so much!!Does it mean since i had that run that my heart is more prone to ventricular fibrillation and SCD? 2.For it to turn into v-fib would you be able to feel sustained v-tach for a long time and have a chance to get it treated or could it just turn to v-fib in a matter of seconds? 3. in your opinon what do you think is causing my symptoms and v-tach, right ventricule outflow tract tachycardia or what? 4. is my conditon and symptoms something that gets worse overtime or is it what it is and stays this way?

ANSWER: Sure, send it.  And include all those questions.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: what is your fax number?

ANSWER: It's not polymorphic.  I can't tell site of origin since there are only two unlabelled leads.  The doc who put the leads on may be able to tell you the site of origin, or where the leads were placed, which might let me find the site of origin.  I think the vtach is benign.

1. Not more prone to vfib.
2. Vtach might well persist for a long time before it turned into vfib,
3. I think your symptoms other than palpitations may be anxiety-induced.
4. Most likely to stay this way.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: could it be Arrhythmogenic Right Ventricular Dysplasia/Cardiomyopathy? how would that be diagnosed? would that fit my symptoms of left side chest pain, left arm pain, angina and the PVC's and VT and other symptoms that I feel? I have on one of my EKG's it says "T Wave Inversion now evident in Inferior Leads", what does that mean? ARVD?  does that long of a run (25beats) make it dangerous? will drinking alot of alcohol make my Idiopathic v-tach dangerous? i've been feeling ALOT of pvc's today, and alot of long runs of them that make me extremely scared, is this common?? what could that be? also found on my copy of the cardionet report it says sinus rhythm with IVCD (Intraventricular Conduction Delay) and on the Diagnosis part it says (ICD-9): 426.9 conduction disorder, unspecified. sinus rhythm with IVCD shows like 3 different times on the report. does the IVCD pose more risk to SCD or v-fib with since i had documented v-tach?" Does it mean since i had that run that my heart is more prone to ventricular fibrillation and SCD? Just how benign is "Idiopathic Ventricular Tachycardia"? Can it develop into V-Fib?  

PS. On the cardionet monitor that I was wearing it had 3 leads, one on left side under collar bone, one on right side under collar bone, and one on left side under rib cage, does this info help any?  

Answer
A definite diagnosis of ARVC/D is warranted in the presence of two major criteria, one major plus two minor criteria, or four minor criteria. The major criteria identified in this study were: 1) right ventricular (RV) akinesia, dyskinesia, or aneurysm by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), echocardiography, or angiography; 2) fibrous replacement (>50%) of RV myocardium on biopsy; 3) T-wave inversion in V1-V3; 4) epsilon wave in V1-V3; 5) ventricular tachycardia (VT) with a left bundle branch block morphology and superior axis; You meet none of these, now that I know how the leads were placed.  T inversion in inferior leads is usually normal if you take a deep breath.  Drinking a lot of alcohol is dangerous, but not to your vtach.  IVCd is not a problem.

I've answered all the questions I know how, Michael.  
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Avatar universal
could you just please answer some of my questions in good detail for me, im so tired of feeling like this and just dont think its normal and somethings got to be wrong.  i dont know anyone else who experiences all these abnormal heart symptoms.  im just so scared that it cant be benign and its going to harm me one day.  please answer my questions and explain in detail some of the facts about this.  thanks
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159619 tn?1707018272
COMMUNITY LEADER
We really can't help you here, we've tried but nothing sinks in. Stick to what the doctors have told you.
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Avatar universal
Is it possible for v-tach to be benign or is it always deadly? why haven't this ever been caught with the multiple of test that i had, holters and event monitors?? How dangerous is this?1.can you please explain to me how this can be harmless and not kill me?i have pvc's all the time and i guess that it what lead to the v-tach, they said from the echo that my heart was strong and normal. could this be an electrical problem, 2.could it be long qt syndrome that was never caught? 3.why would my heart be going into v-tach, its not normal?? i do notice after i drink alot of beer its worse the next day, 4.could that cause me to go into V-Fib?what is a pvc's that occurs on a T wave, if a pvc occured at the wrong time could it kill me?Could this cause v-fibb and SCD in my situation?How bad is it to have a 26 beat run of v-tach??  The EP I seen recently didn't really say much just that it was hard to tell where it was coming from since it was caught only on a event monitor but that he thought it to be coming from multiple places and not just one single one, what does this mean, bad news???  He said to do the EP study was up to me and that he wasn't going to suggest it.  I have these runs all the time and it feels like im going to die or fall out, this CANT be normal or benign, right??3 different times had ventricular tachycardia 25 beats, rate 124BPM, all the v-tach reports had 25beat runs with the highest rate 125BPM.  does any of this offer any additional info for this v-tach maybe not being benign?



I also have came across some information about "Idiopathic Ventricular Fibrillation", and "Primary Ventricular Fibrillation" where it has occured in people with normal hearts, structural and electrical, with normal echos, holters, stress test, ep studies, cardiac mri's, so my question is how can one say that PVC's, and NSVT are benign in NORMAL hearts but they still have these cases of sudden death "v-fib" in people with NORMAL hearts???
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367994 tn?1304953593
Have you read all the previous posts that have been answered on the subject?. What does you doctor say about your condition?  If I remember correctly, Jon has answered most of your questions over the last several months.  Is there something you don't understand?  Can you reduce your post to a few questions...it isn't necessary to include all details...just a few simple questions.
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