Aa
Aa
A
A
A
Close
976897 tn?1379167602

vitamin K2

Believed to be a simple variant of K1 and only being involved with clotting functions it has been discovered that Vitamin K2 has a wide variety of important jobs in the body. Higher levels are showing reductions in cancer risk and heart disease among other things. What disturbs me is where K2 is found. With all the so called expert diets on the market backed up by so called research, we are told to avoid dairy products. It is also the philosophy of cardiac rehab units around the globe to educate patients to avoid saturated fats such as dairy. Could it be that we are taking away important nutrients in believing saturated fat is the cause of heart disease? To be quite honest I wish they would run just one study following food types and publish the answers in a clear and understandable manner. With so many claims it is getting beyond confusing and virtually impossible to know which is valid. They should also bring out strict laws to stop diet clinics stating that their handful of participants feel better and calling this scientific research. I read a case where a patient did a triathlon after being on a strict fruit/veg diet. He felt much better. However after digging deeper I found something interesting. The diet financial gainers were saying "his disease was reversed and cured". Before starting the diet this patient had a 80% blockage at the top of his LAD and a 60% blockage further down. Two years later and after a triathlon, his 60% was around 50% and his 80% was the same. So how can they be allowed to make claims like "reversed" and "cured". This is misleading and pure lies. I think that he may feel better through the diet and they conveniently forgot to mention he lost a fair amount of weight which would give his heart a much easier job. Does anyone else find it very difficult and confusing in finding the truth regarding foods? There is a town in Switzerland which eats lots of locally produced cheese and butter. Now this town has less tooth decay than anywhere else on the planet and it has been seen how teeth are re-mineralising. No one in this town has heart disease either or cancer. So I have to ask if we should pay more attention to the success of isolated groups. I am also concerned that many statements are made about Vitamins and minerals, and yet we have no real idea of what normal levels should be. We simply take a national average and say "ok that must be normal". Now it appears that this could be misleading as most people in the UK are low on Vitamins C and D. But how do we know? I have asked 3 Cardiologists in the past 7 years a very simple question "How much cholesterol does the body require to be healthy?" Not one could answer me and yet, they just want to drive the levels down into the ground. I suppose we will find out one day when we lose brain function lol.
5 Responses
Sort by: Helpful Oldest Newest
1756321 tn?1547095325
I was very happy to see Time Magazine's June 2014 front cover: "Eat Butter. Scientists Labeled Fat the Enemy. Why They Were Wrong." :)




Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Due to my husband's profession, a LOT of fairly heavy scientific journals come to our house.  If you regularly read them, you can see that scientific knowledge is in flux, and will continue to be so as life processes are better and more minutely studied.  Right now, reading about science is like looking through ever more powerful microscopes. Certainly, every week journals like the New England Journal of Medicine put out something no one has ever heard of before, and it will take years and years of rigorously controlled studies to validate or disprove stuff that's new this month.

Part of the problem is that it's hard to get grant money for subjects that are not 'glamorous,' and while visible fat in arteries is a glamorous subject (because of the frequency with which it is found during surgery, it's always right out there in front), vitamin K on the other hand doesn't yet have any street cred.  At least not yet.  If it ever does, the money will come rolling in (relatively speaking), and you will see and read about more research on the subject.  But the 'truth' about its effectiveness will not be known for decades, even if hundreds of studies are published.

As to studying isolated groups like the Swiss population you mention, the ones with great teeth and circulatory systems, yeah, it seems to work for them, as it does for a famous Italian population that eats lots of fats, has high blood fats, and yet is long-lived and amazingly healthy.

However, these are populations that are genetically close due to relative isolation, and if they have lived where they are for centuries, the chances are that their environment has forced certain genetic changes on them that allow them to thrive and reproduce successfully.  For example, a lactose-intolerant person born into these groups would not probably not survive or leave many offspring.  What other special adaptations must they also have?  Probably a lot.  These people are effectively what is called an 'island population.'  We have no idea what would happen if outsiders from an entirely different genetic pool and environment were given their diet and lifestyle.

But these things ARE worth studying, for the sake of conclusions that might one day turn out to be valid.
Helpful - 0
976897 tn?1379167602
But what I find hard to understand are the so called claimed genetic differences. It kind of reminds me of the claims made about evolution with no real scientific evidence. We can say isolated groups have different genes due to their environment/diet etc, but this is not proved. We see birds adapting beaks for different environments but with regards to human beings I thought the general consensus was human evolution has basically stopped? The only thing which seems to continually adapt (thank goodness) is the immune system. I think genes can be very over simplified in science and be misleading. For example, science claims we have a common ancestor to Chimps because our genes are so closely matched. However, genetic experts tend to disagree because many of the 2% differences are control genes with makes us millions of genes different. I'm not saying such theories about human isolated groups is wrong, what I'm saying is science needs to be very specific about what it says. I do agree it's worth more study. I do know there was research on vitamin K2 with Mice which surprised everyone with the results regarding cardiovascular disease and cancers. I would have thought the excitement would be enough to drive research much further. Personally I think the biggest stumbling block of any current research is knowing the right levels for vitamins and minerals. We obviously need a normal baseline but where can we obtain this? We have no idea which population, if any, have normal levels of everything. To keep studying the effects of medications may be simply finding a way to fight against a deficiency which is easily overcome.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
"I thought the general consensus was human evolution has basically stopped?"

Among those who do not believe in evolution, you betcha.  It's an article of faith for them.  But among scientists, far from it! Our advanced technology has perhaps freed us from certain evolutionary pressures, but with our short human lifespans, no one can yet see or say what the ultimate outcome of 'recent' environmental or society changes are, even of something so recent as the Industrial Revolution.  No responsible, well-read scientist declares that evolution has stopped. If he is quoted as saying that, either he is not responsible--or a misquote or misunderstanding by the reporter is involved.

As you say, the interpretation of genetics can indeed be oversimplified--but only among non-scientists.  Among scientists, it is still an expanding maze with many areas under investigation, and good researchers are very, very careful to present their observations only as hypotheses open to challenge and further investigation.  That is the heart of the scientific method, and it does not lead to speedy, comforting conclusions that are set in stone.

Unfortunately, as E. O. Wilson noted in his wonderful book, "Consilience,"  at a point in human history when the liberal arts and the sciences should be working close together towards a meeting of the minds, they are instead further apart than ever, with a immense lack of understanding.

Our discussion here is a perfect example of that.
Helpful - 0
976897 tn?1379167602
I think we perhaps see evolution as a different thing. I call tiny changes like we see in birds, mammals, reptiles, fish and amphibians as 'adaptations'. Evolution is the general term used for millions of small adaptations over millions of years, such as the claim that we came from fish over 300 million years ago. When too many adaptations occur, we see nature jump in and say "oops, nope, this is not sterile" as with the horse. I think the best example is the genetic engineering used in fruit flies which have relatively simple dna. We either get bent wings, no wings, no legs or death. I also don't believe that people who don't believe in evolution simply can't see it. I have tried so very hard to see it but I can't see the imaginary links. I don't live far from London and have visited the museums many times. On display is a small part of a skull, sometimes even just a tiny piece of jaw bone but above this is a full grown homo erectus. I don't care how clever someone thinks they are, to put a full grown being from a tiny piece of jaw bone is a lot of guess work. Getting them to be humble to admit this is the problem lol.
Helpful - 0
Have an Answer?

You are reading content posted in the Heart Disease Community

Top Heart Disease Answerers
159619 tn?1538180937
Salt Lake City, UT
11548417 tn?1506080564
Netherlands
Learn About Top Answerers
Didn't find the answer you were looking for?
Ask a question
Popular Resources
Is a low-fat diet really that heart healthy after all? James D. Nicolantonio, PharmD, urges us to reconsider decades-long dietary guidelines.
Can depression and anxiety cause heart disease? Get the facts in this Missouri Medicine report.
Fish oil, folic acid, vitamin C. Find out if these supplements are heart-healthy or overhyped.
Learn what happens before, during and after a heart attack occurs.
What are the pros and cons of taking fish oil for heart health? Find out in this article from Missouri Medicine.
How to lower your heart attack risk.