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Low Calcium Intake Related to Ectopics?
This question is assuming a subject with non-impaired, fully-funcional parathyroid glands
Regarding low calcium intake, it is my understanding that with low blood calcium, the parathyroid glands will release PTH which will extract calcium from the bones to regulate the blood calcium level. If this statement is correct, then calcium intake and the release of PTH should have an inverse relationship.
In that case, it seems that an extremely low intake of calcium would result in higher levels of PTH in order to maintain adequate blood calcium. Non-impaired parathyroid glands would produce high levels of PTH to compensate for the low calcium intake...right?
So, my question is: could the elevated levels of PTH release associated with low calcium intake potentially be related to ectopic beats? If so, could increasing calcium consumption in a subject with extremely low calcium intake possibly decrease ectopic activity due to a decrease in PTH?
Thank you
Regarding low calcium intake, it is my understanding that with low blood calcium, the parathyroid glands will release PTH which will extract calcium from the bones to regulate the blood calcium level. If this statement is correct, then calcium intake and the release of PTH should have an inverse relationship.
In that case, it seems that an extremely low intake of calcium would result in higher levels of PTH in order to maintain adequate blood calcium. Non-impaired parathyroid glands would produce high levels of PTH to compensate for the low calcium intake...right?
So, my question is: could the elevated levels of PTH release associated with low calcium intake potentially be related to ectopic beats? If so, could increasing calcium consumption in a subject with extremely low calcium intake possibly decrease ectopic activity due to a decrease in PTH?
Thank you
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
Hello,
Thank you for your question.
Patients are not generally told to increase calcium levels in an effort to decrease ectopic beats. In general, maintaining normal electrolyte levels could minimize ectopic beats. However, the most important electrolytes to consider are potassium (K) and magnesium (Mg). Here, maintaining levels of 4.0 and 2.0, respectively have been shown to be optimal in this regard.
Calcium and magnesium are sometimes related. If calcium is low, magnesium may become low as well.
One should have blood levels drawn of electrolytes before they make any changes in diet. I would not advise a patient to categorically increase calcium consumption in an effort to decrease ectopic beats.
However, it would not be a bad idea to ask your physician to obtain a renal panel to measure your electrolytes.
Thank you,
Dr. S
Thank you for your question.
Patients are not generally told to increase calcium levels in an effort to decrease ectopic beats. In general, maintaining normal electrolyte levels could minimize ectopic beats. However, the most important electrolytes to consider are potassium (K) and magnesium (Mg). Here, maintaining levels of 4.0 and 2.0, respectively have been shown to be optimal in this regard.
Calcium and magnesium are sometimes related. If calcium is low, magnesium may become low as well.
One should have blood levels drawn of electrolytes before they make any changes in diet. I would not advise a patient to categorically increase calcium consumption in an effort to decrease ectopic beats.
However, it would not be a bad idea to ask your physician to obtain a renal panel to measure your electrolytes.
Thank you,
Dr. S
o glad they went away. but sad is we know they will be back lol. and sad when they come back they scare us so bad our anxiety kicks in than it takes me months to get over that, hope yours stay away and you have a great week
Pvcs subsided yesterday afternoon. This seems to be my pattern now - I will often have single ones, which I can cope with ok, I soon forget about them. Then I will start up with frequent ones, like a few a minute, and that will continue on and off for a couple of days. These spells cause massive anxiety, but it is still better than having them all day every day like I was a few years ago. It is as though my heart has become sensitised and cold weather, waking with a start, heavy meal, lots of things, make them worse. I wish I could tell you guys what made them decrease, but I can't. I don't go to ER because I have been told several times thay the pvcs are benign. I went once to ER, July '13, because my heart was in bigeminy (every 2nd beay was a pvc), but the cardiologist said I was fine. He didn't even think beta blockers were appropriate. The pvcs reduced after a while so I cam home and they subsided after a couple of days. That was a very scarey time, I can tell you.
Wow so sorry your having them so many, I hate when your going along fine and out of the blue they start not just one but many in a row and for hours, did you go to Er. Have they calm down yet it was 11 hours ago when you wrote this,
Did you eat spicy food or drink beer to start them up.
Keep in touch plz, oh yeah I have anxiety and it don't help at all
Did you eat spicy food or drink beer to start them up.
Keep in touch plz, oh yeah I have anxiety and it don't help at all
Well, awoke with a bit of a start this morning and the pvc's kicked in big style. Had them on and off all day, 3 or 4 a minute. Must have had thousands by now. It will hopefully settle down after a couple of days. It doesn't matter how much reassuring data I read, when you are having a lot of pvcs your logic goes out the window and it is always back to square one. Meditation is helping a bit, but the anxiety will only go when the pvcs subside. Marie's description is correct - a long spell of pvcs is paralysing. I try to carry on my normal routine but its difficult with the constant flip flop feeling in my chest. I do take comfortin the fact that the ER cardiologist wasn't concerned even when I was in bigeminy, but my anxiety surges as soon as I feel them start so very difficult to ignore them. I hope you are doing better today, Marie.
wow sure hope they are better today , plz keep us up todate as what your cardio dr says your in my prayers
wow , you are on top of info . I will go on that site and read some more , mine have been good this week I feel like I am going to have them but I have not lol strange guess that's anxiety,
I didn't start having mine till after I had both my sons and than it was a year later they started, I was 23 now 54. they do seem to gotton worse when they come they last for hours any where from 6-10 hours at a time and like lots of them and when I had them monitored it was every 8 th beat which was aweful.
they have gave me a rest and ive only had them once since than and they lasted maybe 3 hours but not so many beats that close, but either way its scary, hope your doing good today and yours are leaving you alone
I didn't start having mine till after I had both my sons and than it was a year later they started, I was 23 now 54. they do seem to gotton worse when they come they last for hours any where from 6-10 hours at a time and like lots of them and when I had them monitored it was every 8 th beat which was aweful.
they have gave me a rest and ive only had them once since than and they lasted maybe 3 hours but not so many beats that close, but either way its scary, hope your doing good today and yours are leaving you alone
I just did a quick google on amoxicillin and palpitations and found eHealthMe, a site that collates side effects info. It suggests that a review of 20k plus patients on amoxicillin shows 1.6% had palps as a side effect - so its obviously a small, but significant number of people it affects. I feel like mine were a result of the general anaesthetic used in an op I had, or the result of the low blood calcium that came to light immediately after the op - or even that the low blood calcium and op were related. It feels like my heart has now become sensitised and things that had no effect before, now trigger pvcs, eg. heavy meals, cold, hot shower, anxiety. I hope they abate soon.
"But what helps the most is not having them." Ha! Right on! I am in the midst of the worst attack of PVC's in my life. If they would just stop I would be so happy. I'm probably close to 15,000 pvc's in a 24 hour period. Currently wearing a holter monitor. Glad it's going to at least pick up what's going on because it's definitely something. The tech saw the PVC's when he first hooked me up. What I am feeling is real. And it's destroying my life. On day 4 now. I know it can last much, much longer. I am hopeful this is just a short little spell and I can soon go on with my life. Until then, I am paralyzed by ectopic beats every 2-10 seconds. I'm interested in the calcium/magnesium/potassium link. I have been taking good doses of magnesium malate the last 3-4 months and they mostly stopped my palpitations (actually almost completely) but now they have come back with a vengeance after I got sick and had to go on the evil antibiotic amoxicillin.
Continued:
- or are very symptomatic. Surely they would treat pvs more aggressively if they were a serious health risk?
- Finally, I understand that pvcs are easy to identify on an ekg and there is no strong evidence that they turn into other problems like afib.
My pvcs have made my life hell at times. I have suffered massive anxiety and panic attacks for years. The things I have suggested above help - but what helps most is not having them. Best wishes.
- or are very symptomatic. Surely they would treat pvs more aggressively if they were a serious health risk?
- Finally, I understand that pvcs are easy to identify on an ekg and there is no strong evidence that they turn into other problems like afib.
My pvcs have made my life hell at times. I have suffered massive anxiety and panic attacks for years. The things I have suggested above help - but what helps most is not having them. Best wishes.
Continued:
- Your heart beats 100,000 times a day. It would be near impossible for every single beat to be perfectly in sync. A few hundred erratic or early beats are insignificant and even 500 a day is only 0.5%.
- With pvcs the beat comes slightly early; at no point does your heart pause or stop.
- As I understand it, the pvc 'early' beat comes from a different part of the heart to the real beat. Your actual heartbeat keeps going, it's just that another node chips in. The normal sinus rythm continues regardless.
- From reading this forum I have gathered that the Cleveland Clinic only do ablation if you have 20k plus pvcs a day.
- Your heart beats 100,000 times a day. It would be near impossible for every single beat to be perfectly in sync. A few hundred erratic or early beats are insignificant and even 500 a day is only 0.5%.
- With pvcs the beat comes slightly early; at no point does your heart pause or stop.
- As I understand it, the pvc 'early' beat comes from a different part of the heart to the real beat. Your actual heartbeat keeps going, it's just that another node chips in. The normal sinus rythm continues regardless.
- From reading this forum I have gathered that the Cleveland Clinic only do ablation if you have 20k plus pvcs a day.
The site is still there, though only 2 cardiologists answer now. It is a pretty quiet site so you could post a question if you wish. The 2 drs that remain have a more cautious approach to pvcs than Dr Richardson had and they usually suggest you have thorough tests if you haven't had them already.
If you read a lot on the internet about pvcs, as I do, you see that they are very, very common, and the general medical view seems to be that they are not dangerous if your heart is structurally sound and you do not have significant heart disease. However...when you are sitting there having 10 a minute for hours at a time it is near impossible not to be terrified and think you are about to drop dead. Thinking about the following helps me a bit:
If you read a lot on the internet about pvcs, as I do, you see that they are very, very common, and the general medical view seems to be that they are not dangerous if your heart is structurally sound and you do not have significant heart disease. However...when you are sitting there having 10 a minute for hours at a time it is near impossible not to be terrified and think you are about to drop dead. Thinking about the following helps me a bit:
Awe thanks I will get those books for sure is that site still there just that dr gone
Another site that helped me a lot was the All Experts cardiology forum where docs answer heart questions. Although he has retired from the site now, Dr David Richardson, frequently posted that pvcs were harmless in a normal heart. I found it helpful to print out his answers on pvcs to read thru when I felt very anxious. One fantastic book that was a life saver for me was Dr Claire Weekes 'Self Help for Your Nerves'. At one point I was so anxious I got panic attacks and this book helped me cope. I also found cognitive therapy books helped with the anxiety too - 'Stop Thinking Start Living' by Dr Richard Carlson was probably the best. I took a view that I couldn't seem to do anything about the pvcs so I would try to deal with the anxiety.
wow thanks for the good info. sad but it helps to talk to others that have them. mine come and go, maybe if I had them all the time I would be more used to them but when they are gone for months than out of blue show up in full force its really scary, and the Dr's always ask if I am under stress or did something happen to cause them, my answer is always no, SO THANK YOU FOR THE GOOD THOUGHTS ON IT IT HELPS TO EASE OUR MINDS LOL .sorry about caps big finger lol
Continued:
I am frustrated too because mostly the pvcs start without a reason, and when they are frequent can be terrifying. I have recently taken up meditation to help with the anxiety they cause - the Tara Brach website has downloadable guided meditations that are free. There is also a research paper by H L Kennedy that showed that people with frequent pvcs (500 an hour) had the same prognosis over 10 years as the general population, ie. No increased risk of death. Its called Long Term Followup of Assymptomatic Subjects with Frequent Complex ventricular Ectopy. It put my mind at rest a bit.
I am frustrated too because mostly the pvcs start without a reason, and when they are frequent can be terrifying. I have recently taken up meditation to help with the anxiety they cause - the Tara Brach website has downloadable guided meditations that are free. There is also a research paper by H L Kennedy that showed that people with frequent pvcs (500 an hour) had the same prognosis over 10 years as the general population, ie. No increased risk of death. Its called Long Term Followup of Assymptomatic Subjects with Frequent Complex ventricular Ectopy. It put my mind at rest a bit.
Usually I feel them, though I once had a 24hr holter monitor and did not feel any in 24hrs - however, the results showed 300. I am similar to yourself in that my pulse will be regularly irregular - ie. Every 6th beat will be a pvc for several hours at a time. Over the 9 years since they began they have gradually subsided. At times I had them all day every day. Now they come in spells that usually last a few hours at a time. I do not take anything for them. Even at A and E the cardiologist said I didn't need beta blockers (though my gp gave me some for anxiety - not used yet). I wish I could help by saying what made them reduce, but I cannot. They can be triggered by a heavy meal, cold weather, hot shower, anxiety. All I can say to reassure you is that all I have read (and I have read a lot) suggests that they are harmless in a structurally normal heart.
Do you take anything for them , do you feel them, I have had acs for many years, but as I have gotton older they seem to come for longer hours and more of them, I might not have any for months thn one dy they start and last for ten hours and every 8 th heart beat is one, so scary sat nite was fine ut f bye 11pm it started lasted 6 hours not as bad as the other time, but just don't understand, d you have everyday or like mine
I don't understand the science of what you are asking, but I will be very interested in the cardiac doctors response. After an operation 9 years ago I was told I had low blood calcium. A few days after being discharged, it came to light that I was having multiple ectopics, many hundreds/thousands a day. A cardiac check up said I was ok and the blood calcium was ok too. However, the ectopics have continued and cause me huge anxiety. I have had a few ekgs in the 9 years since, when the ectopics have been really bad, and always been told I am ok. I had a trip to A and E a few months ago when my heart was in bigeminy for a few hours. Again, the cardiologist said I was ok. I fear that the low blood calcium has somehow damaged my heartand I will never be free of these ectopics.
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