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NUCs Reduce Hep B Liver Cancer Risk, Cirrhosis Remains a Concern

To better understand NUCs & HCC, the following article by  Liz Highleyman is highly recommended.
AASLD 2012: Nucleoside Analogs Reduce Hepatitis B Liver Cancer Risk, Cirrhosis Remains a Concern
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/new_with_new_subject?forum_id=223

"Taken together, these studies indicate that although HCC can occur in the absence of advanced fibrosis, cirrhosis is a key risk factor. Short-term treatment with nucleoside/nucleotide analogs may not be enough to diminish HCC risk, but long-term therapy can reduce the likelihood of both initial liver cancer and HCC recurrence after resection. Early antiviral therapy that prevents advanced fibrosis or cirrhosis from developing in the first place may have an even greater beneficial effect."
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Hi veteranB. Were u taking TNF previously? How long did u take this for? when did you stop? Any experience since you stopped?
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Some devastating news out of Buffalo on former UConn receiver Marcus Easley. The Buffalo News.homemade dog food
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"High blood pressure kills just as easy as HBV over period of time." - Contradiction to claim that HBV is benign.

"But again I am not against NUCS. At the moment they have their place for people with advanced stages of liver disease. Healthy people need to be treated with interferon to stop the virus for good." Interferon cannot cure everyone.

"I am just against of how NUCS are being prescribed for years to patients in many cases without monitoring patients, and without telling patients their options in therapy and long term risks." Rubbish generalization from personal experience. Guidelines are open to everyone to read.

"They are pulling all the research out of HIV treatment observation, but HBV is very much treatable with interferon it was before nucs. We have an issue with our immune system - surface antigen crippling it, thus not enabling us to clear the virus." - Interferon does not cure everyone.

"Nucs don't have the ability to reduce the surface antigen, as interferon can for example." Nucs prevent progression to cirrhosis, reduce risks of HCC, therefore prolong life.
" Also NUCS suppress bone marrow (http://www.answers.com/topic/nucleoside-analogue) = suppression of immune system. " Wrong.


"For example, take a healthy HBV carrier with undetectable DNA, he happens to catch an infection and boom his/her viral load goes through the roof. It has being documented with people catching herpes viruses such as CMV and EBV, that cause a huge disturbance in immune system. " Incomprehensible. Healthy due to NUCs? CMV and EBV do not cause immune reaction in people who are not taking NUCs?
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Avatar universal
"But if they cause fatty liver" - No proof.

"And opinion number 2, is that HepB in general is a benign virus" - Wrong. Everyday, Hepatitis B patients died of HCC, acute liver failure due to cirrhosis.
"it is the immune system that is causing damage to the liver over time. " - Contradiction to claim that HBV is a benign virus.
"No if we are talking about drug resistant HBV virus that one is cytopathic - super virus. " - Exaggeration.
"Interferon does not create those. Resistant mutants are not an issues here." - Interferon does not cure everyone.

"All I am saying is that why use NUCS if interferon has a higher chance of HBV cure rate at six months to a year? " - A deliberate lie.
"I guess that would be an appropriate question for Liz Highleyman. And why they are not writing research papers on Alinia the lowers the HBsAg quantity? " - No evidence to suggest Alinia can directly reduce HBsAg. Why not ask Romak, the company that manufactured Alinia.
"So it would seem to me that combining Alinia with immunostimulator can produce great results." - Why don't you try Alinia yourself, instead of asking others to be the guinea pig?

Also the nucleoside analogs that they give us were never developed for HBV specifically it is important to note." - Entecavir was never developed for HIV, never used for HIV.
"All these agents were developed for the management of HIV infection. " -Wrong.

"these are very troubling reported side effects that people develop over a period of time while on these drugs. And they don't know if these will be permanent side effects and what the long term affect would be. There are plenty of doctors and reputable once that would tell you that GMO food is safe. But the real research shows that GMO is very dangerous. " Cars can kill, so you don't use a car? Don't talk rubbish here.
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Avatar universal

     Headaches
    **High blood pressure
    A general sense of feeling ill
    Nausea
    Vomiting
    Loss of appetite
    Increase of enzymes in the kidney and liver that may indicate damage to these organs
    **Reduction of bone mineral density

High blood pressure kills just as easy as HBV over period of time.

But again I am not against NUCS. At the moment they have their place for people with advanced stages of liver disease. Healthy people need to be treated with interferon to stop the virus for good.

I am just against of how NUCS are being prescribed for years to patients in many cases without monitoring patients, and without telling patients their options in therapy and long term risks.

They are pulling all the research out of HIV treatment observation, but HBV is very much treatable with interferon it was before nucs. We have an issue with our immune system - surface antigen crippling it, thus not enabling us to clear the virus.

Nucs don't have the ability to reduce the surface antigen, as interferon can for example. Also NUCS suppress bone marrow (http://www.answers.com/topic/nucleoside-analogue) = suppression of immune system. When the immune system is the key factor at clearing the virus, and also maintaining the infection at bay.

For example, take a healthy HBV carrier with undetectable DNA, he happens to catch an infection and boom his/her viral load goes through the roof. It has being documented with people catching herpes viruses such as CMV and EBV, that cause a huge disturbance in immune system.
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Avatar universal
But if they cause fatty liver, they induce progression to cancer in another way. Baraclude for example is carcinogenic agent in itself.

And opinion number 2, is that HepB in general is a benign virus, it is the immune system that is causing damage to the liver over time. No if we are talking about drug resistant HBV virus that one is cytopathic - super virus. Interferon does not create those. Resistant mutants are not an issues here.

All I am saying is that why use NUCS if interferon has a higher chance of HBV cure rate at six months to a year? I guess that would be an appropriate question for Liz Highleyman. And why they are not writing research papers on Alinia the lowers the HBsAg quantity? So it would seem to me that combining Alinia with immunostimulator can produce great results.

Also the nucleoside analogs that they give us were never developed for HBV specifically it is important to note. All these agents were developed for the management of HIV infection. Different viruses. They happen to suppress both virus but so can Alinia that is used to treat Giardia.

these are very troubling reported side effects that people develop over a period of time while on these drugs. And they don't know if these will be permanent side effects and what the long term affect would be. There are plenty of doctors and reputable once that would tell you that GMO food is safe. But the real research shows that GMO is very dangerous.
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Avatar universal
Liz Highleyman
Published: 29 November 2012

Nucleoside analogues reduce hepatitis B liver cancer risk

http://www.aidsmap.com/Nucleoside-analogues-reduce-hepatitis-B-liver-cancer-risk/page/2555272/

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Avatar universal
Tenofovir DF (Viread)

    An antiviral drug for people with HIV infection. When taken with other antiviral drugs, it can reduce one's viral load to extremely low levels, and increase one's T-cell counts. Tenofovir may also help control Hepatitis B. It also works against several strains of HIV that are already resistant to AZT, ddC, or ddI.

Possible Side Effects:

    Headaches
    High blood pressure
    A general sense of feeling ill
    Nausea
    Vomiting
    Loss of appetite
    Increase of enzymes in the kidney and liver that may indicate damage to these organs
    Reduction of bone mineral density

    For more information, please visit Viread.

And continuing just google the results, you can find publications all you want on adverse effects of taking nucs for a long time. And I am living proof of it. I developed high blood pressure, and steatosis while on it. And the manufacturer does not deny it now either, printed on the lable.

This obviously occurs over a long period of time, greater then a year. As reported by most people. HIV infected were reporting these instances of sides accuring after a year of being on the drugs or more.
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Avatar universal
"Case. A 39-year-old white man, with an HIV infection diagnosed in 1999, was admitted in June 2003 with acute renal failure. Two months prior to admission his renal function was normal, with a serum creatinine of 0.81 mg/dl (72 μM) and a creatinine clearance of 100 ml/min. HIV infection was asymptomatic with a CDC classification of A2, and he was treated with lamivudine, zidovudine and nevirapine. In May 2003, as his viral load increased and the CD4 count fell, the treatment was changed to tenofovir (245 mg/day), didanosine (250 mg/day) and abacavir (600 mg/day). Two weeks later, the patient had an episode of vomiting. His serum creatinine was 2.67 mg/dl (237 µmol/l). Because of deteriorating renal function, he was admitted to hospital 1 week later. "

"
What Are Temporary Side Effects?

When you start any antiviral treatment, you may have temporary side effects such as headaches, high blood pressure, or a general sense of feeling ill. These side effects usually get better or disappear over time."
http://www.camuspharma.com/Available-Drugs.htm

"Epivir

Possible Side Effects:

    Temporary headaches, high blood pressure, or a general sense of feeling ill
    Nausea
    Vomiting
    Fatigue
    Headaches
    Insomnia
    Rare cases of hair loss
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Avatar universal
Dear Medical student that studies us :) .. I am telling you what some doctors are telling me, clinicians that see and deal wit real hbv cases.

About success rates you can read about here... http://gut.bmj.com/content/54/7/1009.full Numbers are much higher then any reported NUC

http://virology-online.com/general/Chemotherapy4.htm

Here they list 20-25%  in terms of a cure http://www.hepatitis-central.com/hbv/hepbfaq/inf.html  and 50% in terms of coming off drugs and be a healthy carrier.

Can ANY NUC do this, and show these results?

Success rates with interferon depend on Genotype, but up to a 50% is a safe estimate.

That is why I say ask your doctors why they prescribe you anti HIV agents that don't even closely match the results of Interferon?

And also why they are not telling patients about the dangers of anti HIV agents.. why they don't say about these side effects..

http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/2/473.2.long

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50% clearance on interferon is misinformation.  Provide a reputable source (not webmd) for your claim.
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Up to 50% chance to clear hbv?

Peginterferon:
Loss of hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) with appearance of anti-HBs occurred in 3% to 5% of patients after 1 year of treatment and 6 months of posttreatment follow-up.[Janssen 2005; Lau 2005a]
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Avatar universal
People should start interferon as soon as possible to clear the virus. NUCS dont accomplish anything rather then control viral replication. But you are still infected and liver damage will continue at a slow rate from the affects or quantity of the surface antigen itself.

Also if you develop fatty liver as a side effect of Baraclude it can progress to cirrhosis and liver cancer independent of the virus. Combine that with high blood pressure and kidney damage possibility of tenofovir for example and you have even more problems.

everyone should ask your doctor a question. Why are you giving me nucs when interferon alone has up to 50% chance to clear hbv?  I did ask mine he was kind of puzzled and said - well because this is how we treat it now.

Now ask yourself this question if this makes sense?

At the same time use of nucs has its benefits for people with advanced fibrosis and cirrhosis  who cant tolerate interferon. The last resort therapy sort of saying. Or in combination with immunomodulator  for some that have a poor response to  interferon.

All of you have to understand that the immune system clears the virus. Our immune system. Helping it - rebuilding it - finding a parallel running infection that maybe be driving hbv is the key to success. This is plain common sense.  

Google all the info yourself and come to your own conclusions. Examine success rate of hbv clearance on interferon vs nucs. This will give you the answer.  
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Avatar universal
StephenCastlecrag ....... (your name is too long)

i feel i agree with the point of view that said use nucl. therapy as soon as possible .. as mentioned above that the long term use of entecavir, tenofovir ...will make fire wall from attack of hcc or cirrohisis ..
i feel this view is very wise ..
for me iam now 38 ..
hbvdna falactuate between 2000-5000 iu/ml
fibisis f1 (last aug)

istarted entecavir to be - in Shallah - in the safe side even though bad effects of entecavir on kidneys ..
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Go sue the drug companies.
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http://drugline.org/drug/medicament/8655/

What does she has to say about that Entecavir causes fatty liver that progresses to cirrhosis and cancer?

And how are they going to address high blood pressure development on prolonged nucs use?
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