chronic HBV -- Is treatment necessary

[Babylove0728]

I was diagnosed with chronic HBV , HBeAg-ve in 2001. It was just from a routine healthy check-up. I never knew I had it and never thought would have it. It was debastating for me to learn about it.I started to take milk thistle and lately, phospatidyl choline.  From 2001 till 4-21-10, my viral load had been 1.74 X 10 log 3. Then in 2010, virus started to replicate.
4-21-10 viral load was 7.84 x 10 log 3
9-14-10 viral load was 1.29 x 10 log 4
12-20-10 viral load was 1.62 x 10 log 4
1-26-11 viral load was 2.3 x 10 log 4
3-29-11 viral load was 7.44 x 10 log 3
7-11-11 viral load was 2.74 x 10 log 4
Note that viral load went down 1 log on 3-29-11.
Regardless of viral load , ALT has always been 31 and below and AST 34 and below
Do the above results merit viral treatment?

[stef2011]

sim just started 4 weeks ago at 40mg, switched to 80mg 6 days ago

alinia 1,5 years and will stop soon, too difficult to get it here and no effect on me

hbsag steady at about 5000iu/ml from july

[kac366]

  Hi Stef
What is your hsbag Level? how long you were taking alinia and Sim? and what was your hsbag level before you start?

I am waiting my lab result and as soon as i receive i will let you know it

thanks

[stef2011]

1. Vitamin C                          £30 can skip because no sides at any dose
2. Vitamin D(250 oh)              £25
4.Glutathione ox/red               £100

under specific tests
Malondialdehyde in blood (ox stress)
nagalase

[kac366]

Hi Stef

I found out the E.Lab with the following details:

1. Vitamin C                          £30
2. Vitamin D(250 oh)              £25
3. Glutathione tot                   £40
4.Glutathione ox/red               £100 (Which one we need )

oxidative stress, Nagalase: I can't see from the list

What else do i need need

[stef2011]

vitamin d3 5000iu pills solgar or puritans brands are ok, just google for theri website.
vitamin d25oh is the serum test needed to check the levels, 50-100ng/ml are the latest updated optimum range

google livonlabs and check on their website for uk reseller, glutathione and vitamin c

you wont find these products at a normal pahrmacy, you can only find commercial products at pharmacy and wont find liposmal formulations but only injectable glutathione/vitamin c, which is not the case

europeanlaboratory.nl
you can test nagalase, oxidative stress, glutathione, vitamin c...this is a research level lab, at the moment the only privatelab offering nagalase testing (inthe rest of the world you can do it on research settng only)

[kac366]

I asked a pharmasy
1. vitamin d3 n serum >50ng ml
He shows me the one which i use to take 1000iu/ml  is that ok
liposomal vit c
He shows me the one which you can mix with a water 1000iu/ml is that ok
glutathione from livon labs .
The above one he could not understand

both vitamins are useless taken by normal oral pills,

What you mean ? and how shall I take
.
Do you have address and phone numbers Nagalasa in Holland

Thanks .

[kac366]

I asked a pharmasy
1. vitamin d3 n serum >50ng ml
He shows me the one which i use to take 1000iu/ml  is that ok
liposomal vit c
He shows me the one which you can mix with a water 1000iu/ml is that ok
glutathione from livon labs .
The above one he could not understand

both vitamins are useless taken by normal oral pills,

What you mean ? and how shall I take
.
Do you have address and phone numbers Nagalasa in Holland

Thanks

[stef2011]

there is no overdose for vitamin d and if you take 1000iu it is totally useless, 1hr of sun makes 25000iu of vit d 3.....

to over dose you need 600000-6000000iu for 6 months, it also doesnt make sense to take vit d3 without checking serum levels, everything must be done checking levels otherwise it is non sense

What about Fatigue, I am almost cannot get up in the morning

this is a problem on almost all cronic diseases where immune system is not able to clear a cronic infection, you can use the vitamins i told you and see what happens and exclude liver damage by fibroscan since it also makes fatigue symptoms sometimes when severe damage f3-f4
but mostly fatigue is connected with immune system failure

getting nagalase checked in holland might be another good thing

livonlabs makes liposomes which makes vit c and glutathione like IV, both vitamins are useless taken by normal oral pills, both vit c and glutathione liposomal have no max dose and no sides at any dose

[kac366]

I use to take vit d3 1000  daily for the past 4 weeks but i quite became sick, i could not sleep,/dry mouth now i Stop and all my symtoms is gone except Fatigue and back pain.

I thought I do not need d3 as I recently came back from Africa and it became overdose.

What about Fatigue, I am almost cannot get up in the morning

But remember after when i tooke vit d3 all this symtoms started (fatigue, dry mounth. Mild fever which within 5 minutes going and comes back, back pain which i still have).

what you mean from livon labs

Thanks

[stef2011]

it looks like virus is inactive but only hbsag quant and hbvdna can tell, try to boost immune function by vitamin d3 n serum >50ng ml and use of liposomal vit c and glutathione from livon labs for now

[stef2011]

just google hepatitistechnologies but these are useless on hbv virus, they are needed to repair liver damage only like cirrhosis or f2-f3 fibrosis

[kac366]

Hi Stef
First of all I would like to thank you for your  good advice and passing information and experience to this forum
I am  very often reading your articles since I joined this forum and I benefited a lot.

If I come back my point I have been diagnosed with Heb B in July This year. My doctor told me that I am a carrier, no damage to my liver and no need any medication but to monitor every six monthly, She also asky me to see a liver team in the main Hospital, which I am waiting  for their appointment.

My report shows:
HBsAg:                         Positive
Anti - HBS                     <10.0 MIU/ML
Anti-hbc (IgG/IgM)          Positive
Anti-HBC (IgM)              Negative
HBeAg                          Negative
Anti-HBe                       Posotive
ALT                               28
AST                               22

Utra Sound Shows : Normal (No Liver/Kidney Damage)

What You think stef the above results

After when I read the advice you given to this froum I decided not to waite But:

1. to get a researcher who can monitor my case and I have got a very
   Famous Professor in Uk and I will meet him after when he come back
   from the liver meeting in US

2. After when we meet I will Find out My HBSAG Quantity iu/ml and i will  
    have also FIBRO SCAN.  


Finally my symptom is now  alot fatigue speacilly in the morning ,
is there any medication for it Please


Thanks

  

[Babylove0728]

Thanks.

But where do u buy them?

[stef2011]

hepatitistechnologies antioxidants products which are made by a research team and have clinical trials proved efficacy but even simple blood tests improve within months so easy to check benefits

[Babylove0728]

Hello,

What is heptech?

Thanks.

[lila58]

Thanks a lot !

[4est]

maybe this will help http://www.hepbnet.org/

[lila58]

I am like you,don't know what to do.I talked to a researcher at a teaching hospital in Germany and strongly recommended antiviral treatment.He said they saw enough cases of liver cancer without cirosis.I'll have a fibroscan on 14 oct.At least you can have a hepatologist and a fibroscan,I can't have thouse in US where I live

[Babylove0728]

My doctor suggested anti-viral treatment even tho my ALT is normal (below 2X upper limit of 19 i.e. below 38), because she thinks that my chronic HBV infection has been over 10 years now. She said it has been too long.

I agree, altho I was diagnosed in 2001, I didnt know when I had it really, maybe before 2001, I wouldnt know. But my viral load as I have mentioned was 1,74 x 10 log 3 or 1740 from 2001 till April 20, 2010. SO altho infection has been for a long time, my viral load was really low to merit treatment. MAybe taking milk thistle helped viral load stayed that low for almost 10 years. Then it started to replicate from April 21, 2010. I would say maybe my immune system was not the same as when I was younger.

[Babylove0728]

Any antiviral can do this but once HBVDNA is undetectable the infection goes on...

I thought I read about this. I told my doctor that it seems like anti -viral treatment will make your liver worse instead of better because more liver cells will be infected. And I thought anti viral meds kill infected liver cells and if more than enough liver cells are killed, there will be liver failure. So in the end, what will one benefit from anti-viral treatment.

However, the Mt Sinai doctor said liver will be better if there is undetectable HBVDNA, because it is less virus or no virus to attack liver cells. How come you said once HBVDNA is und infection goes on and spread to other cells.

This is getting to be so confusing now, really. If one is on viral treatment, you will someday get undetectable hBVDNA. However, if more liver cells are infected as you said, then why go for anti viral treatment. Isnt this so confusing?

[stef2011]

another point that makes your doctors just drugs pushers.how the h... can you prescribe these antivirals useless on infection and with unknown long term sides on a person with zero liver damage?

prevention of cirrhosis and HCC would be the answer....fibroscan can allert years before any relevant damage so that antivirals are started only "if" there is a need

not to mention that heptech can be used for cirhossis and hcc prevention without sides but only improvment of general helath much better than antivirals

in the end i am not pro or against, i am for personalized therapy with correct monitoring of what needed or not (...i am myself on antivirals but my liver was cirrotic)

[stef2011]

I thought she said DNA can be achieved to an undetectable level.

any antiviral can do this but once hbvdna is und the infection goe on and spread to other cells.hbvdna is not the virus and not the way it spreads to other cells, that's why it is a useless test, it doesn t reflect anything about the infection clearance

The Mt Sinai doctor suggested testing for genotype to see if interferon treatment can be done. he said that interferon treatment might clear the virus off but not the oral meds.

correct but interferon without combos has only 11% chances of clearance at 5 years and we now know that monotherpay can even mutate hbsag and make clearance impossible.so interferon monotherapy is a waste of time and money

it is you to choose the threapy, not her, she just suggests but the choice is of patients, if she is imposing this is illegal, at lest in my country, and you better look for another more expert doctor

but I said to pospone since Iw as travelling to Asia.

asia has better hospital, tests availability and doctors than US.if you happen to travel to asia india or some chinese hospitals are the best places, especially because US uses hbvdna tests which are useless to force anybody on useless antivirals to make money, in asia you can personalise therapy thanks to hbsag quant and fibroscan.India is the place where all drugs are available at lower costs and the combos i posted are already in place at a new deli center

[Babylove0728]

I thought she said DNA can be achieved to an undetectable level.

The Mt Sinai doctor suggested testing for genotype to see if interferon treatment can be done. he said that interferon treatment might clear the virus off but not the oral meds.

problem with my doc is if I suggest something to her, like, anything, in this case, genotype testing, she will tell me that I dont trust her. And if I say to check my blood results every 3 months at least, she says it is not indicated, besides being expensive. Now I am going to tell her to test my genotype and I know she will have a feat. She thought I started to take entecavir last Sept 28, when I last had an appt with her. It is so hard. And if I change docs, the more she will say I dont trust her. She had been telling me to take viral meds since Jan 2011, but I said to pospone since Iw as travelling to Asia. Then in March 2011 blood results, I saw that my viral load went down 1 log, so I said to postpone treatment again. She said it is not a big deal. How can 1 log down not a big deal? Until I got viral load in July 2011, it went up again to log 4. And that was when I said I will start taking entecavir. But still I am hesitant. I dont know why. and I started to post questions here.
Genotype and interferon came in in this post which my doc never mentioned to me She was just after the viral treatment of entecavir or tenofovir. We decided on the former because of my ostepenia. However, I read that for chronic HBV HbeAg-ve, best treatment is tenofovir. And because of that, the more I became hesitant starting with entecavir. What if it becomes a failure. I am scared.

With sonogram, you said it is useless to see liver damage?

[stef2011]

My doctor's aim to treat is to prevent the liver from cirrhosis and HCC

with fibroscan you can see if you are developping any of these, most patients do not develop cirrhosis/hcc and do not need treatment.HCC is not sure to be prevented by nucs

She said viral treatments can stop viral replication.....

not correct, can lower replication, it doesnt stop it at all

suggested testing for genotype.

very corrrect and also hbsag quant so you can see if you can eradicate hbsag with interferon

if you are in US you might need to send samples to india or europe to get hbsag quant.see old posts about india lab accepting samples

My sonogram in Feb 2011 acc to my doctor did not show any cirrhosis or HCC
this is useless to see liver damage, when it detects something cirrhosis is too advanced while US every 6 months is the best tool for hcc