Aa
3 month test results: still clear!!!!!!! Can we re-infect ourselves?
Well, I got my test results last night and I am still clear. Yippeeee!! I am so happy. All my bloodwork is normal. My doc ordered the super sensitive Hep c test so, at this 3-month point, I am hep c free and all that pain and suffering was worth it. It is so unbelievable. To all of you out there going through treatment, I had the absolute worst time and now I am clear. I had 3a, high viral load and procrit and neupogen shots weekly. It was (almost) the closest thing to hell I have experienced. There is hope for all of us.
I had never thought of this before but does anyone know anything about re-infecting ourselves with our razors and toothbrushes?
Say we are going through treatment and we clear and then we use a razor that is infected or a toothbrush. What will happen? Is hep c like a cold virus where you never get the same strain twice?
Thanks and Happy Holidays to everyone.
I had never thought of this before but does anyone know anything about re-infecting ourselves with our razors and toothbrushes?
Say we are going through treatment and we clear and then we use a razor that is infected or a toothbrush. What will happen? Is hep c like a cold virus where you never get the same strain twice?
Thanks and Happy Holidays to everyone.
"You went from stage 3 to 0 after how many treatments? Did you achieve a SVR? Just curious, due to my own 88 weeks of tx -- hoping I received the same sort of benefit to my liver histology."
Scott my improvments in liver histology were from a single 100 week treatment. My last labs showed a ALT 24, AST 23, ggt 126...doc told me to lose weight to bting this down and also reduce the very real risk of rapid fibrosis due to steatosis. He also wanted and got a blood sample for viral load thinking (not too clearly IMO) that I am actually clear and there was a mistake in the original labs...those ar pending and even though I know I am postive his false optimism does influence my hope...albeit false!
"On "Doc" -- correct me if I am wrong but as I remember it this person was invited to stay right here with a name change."
The invite fell on deaf ears since she not only never returned but made a suicide attempt...as per another forum litter mate.
" My feeling was, and is, too many new people come here to have someone with the "official" title of a MD handing out advice. Please refresh my memory, but if I am correct this "Doc" was handing out advice, presented herself as an expert, etc. Now, personally, if someone wants to call themselves Prometheus or Rabelais, that is all well and good but DR has a different connotation, a different weight to it. Could it have been handled with more delicacy? Yes."
She did indicate that she innocently used a title she had acquired over her years in treating patients and also made it clear that it was not for HCV and that she was not considering herslef an expert. Regardless attack the arguemnet or postition not he perons. This is not to say that no on will get offended by attcking what some consider a belief system...use best available evidence and there is never a problem...outside the true believers in magical thinking.
"On the thanbey issue -- that was something that couldn't be tolerated. Enough research was done by several people to also prove what was going on there. Then came the solicitation for the class action lawsuit, complete with an offer to coordinate with the attorneys bringing suit. Sometimes I shake my head in disbelief Bob. I mean, this person solicited here for a class action lawsuit"
Hey Scott it still does not justify attacking the person. As the opponent presents deflections of the argument you have to continually, and patiently, bring them back on topic until it is obvious to all wherethe evidence points. Such false advocates usally self-immolate in short order so it does not take much more effort to be polite than rude. By far the biggest imapct is on the readers of the forum...not all are like you and I who can tolerate and accept verbal andwritten abuse. Some patients comming ehre are quite fragile and even teh hint or innuendo that they have mispoken is enough to drive them away...these are the ones we need to keep..where else are they going to go to get reliable information?
As far as the class action suit..so what? Clinical trial can only elucidate so much in the effects department..adverse and beneficial..I think the generaly accepted figure is that 50% of effects (good and bad) are found out once the drug is released for general consumption....the numbers increase so does the clarity on response. To obtain this through clinical trials alone would take forever. For the lawsuit if it has merit the patients should be compensated as it stands it went nowhere but is now being considered on a patient by patient basis...it all comes out in the end!
"People that left here -- well -- we all make choices of where we hang our hats. Almost daily new folks come that need support, advice and direction from those of us that have been through the experience. That is what I try to do. I know you don't mean to suggest I am some sort of heat-seeking missile aimed at all that is good here. I appreciate your advice and suggestions. You are totally correct that one thing has united us here: hepatitis. I don't agree "reasoned argumentation" works in life. If everyone had a state of Reason it would but everyone doesn't do they? I would be interested in your feelings about that. I am sure you know that everyone can't be reasoned with -- in all walks of life. Some have agendas, or axioms, that make reasonable discussion very hard. Then another approach is necessary. That's my thinking on it."
Yes we all make decisions on where to hang our hats..it is a free world and nobody really knows who si reading...BUT we are the seasoned and resiliant veterans of the battle with good and bad outcomes. It is up to use to educate and support the newcomers not drive them away by what is posted. many are sensitive and I can't belive you never made a statement that got you the "look" and "attitude" from your significant other over something you thought was a innocent comment...the only differnce is here you don't get a chance to explain yourself in the immediate time frame.
You don't have to reason with everyone you just have to be reasonable with everyone. You can totally trash an opponents postion without personal attacks. Agendas are easy to spot and using accepted and documented human physiology and biochemistry is usually sufficient for opponent meltdown. I realize that I may be in a better postion to argue on that fronet given my background but collectively everyone here has the answers...it is a very well informed group.
Scott, you are right I don't think you seek to destroy all that is good I only think you need to think of the shy and sensitive ones amongst us. We are an eclectic group here and while we are resiliant there are those that are not...we must look after the lowest common denominatorThe diagnosis of HCV is devastating to most and the ramifications of the disease really suck but we still need to be polite to the most obvious of charlatans...civil discourse will reveal the truth in the claims...patience is all that is necessary. I know that doesn't provide the satisfaction of ripping your opponent a new one but in the long-run it will put more people off than win them over...the ripping part that is!
Hey I will be the first to admit I have not won alot of friends but more enemies in my discussions...the typical debate ends up with me being called a "pharma plant" or other such nonsense but is because I question what some consider a belief system of"facts" based in magical thinking rather than science...that is acceptable to me as collateral damage.
kind regards,
BobK
Scott my improvments in liver histology were from a single 100 week treatment. My last labs showed a ALT 24, AST 23, ggt 126...doc told me to lose weight to bting this down and also reduce the very real risk of rapid fibrosis due to steatosis. He also wanted and got a blood sample for viral load thinking (not too clearly IMO) that I am actually clear and there was a mistake in the original labs...those ar pending and even though I know I am postive his false optimism does influence my hope...albeit false!
"On "Doc" -- correct me if I am wrong but as I remember it this person was invited to stay right here with a name change."
The invite fell on deaf ears since she not only never returned but made a suicide attempt...as per another forum litter mate.
" My feeling was, and is, too many new people come here to have someone with the "official" title of a MD handing out advice. Please refresh my memory, but if I am correct this "Doc" was handing out advice, presented herself as an expert, etc. Now, personally, if someone wants to call themselves Prometheus or Rabelais, that is all well and good but DR has a different connotation, a different weight to it. Could it have been handled with more delicacy? Yes."
She did indicate that she innocently used a title she had acquired over her years in treating patients and also made it clear that it was not for HCV and that she was not considering herslef an expert. Regardless attack the arguemnet or postition not he perons. This is not to say that no on will get offended by attcking what some consider a belief system...use best available evidence and there is never a problem...outside the true believers in magical thinking.
"On the thanbey issue -- that was something that couldn't be tolerated. Enough research was done by several people to also prove what was going on there. Then came the solicitation for the class action lawsuit, complete with an offer to coordinate with the attorneys bringing suit. Sometimes I shake my head in disbelief Bob. I mean, this person solicited here for a class action lawsuit"
Hey Scott it still does not justify attacking the person. As the opponent presents deflections of the argument you have to continually, and patiently, bring them back on topic until it is obvious to all wherethe evidence points. Such false advocates usally self-immolate in short order so it does not take much more effort to be polite than rude. By far the biggest imapct is on the readers of the forum...not all are like you and I who can tolerate and accept verbal andwritten abuse. Some patients comming ehre are quite fragile and even teh hint or innuendo that they have mispoken is enough to drive them away...these are the ones we need to keep..where else are they going to go to get reliable information?
As far as the class action suit..so what? Clinical trial can only elucidate so much in the effects department..adverse and beneficial..I think the generaly accepted figure is that 50% of effects (good and bad) are found out once the drug is released for general consumption....the numbers increase so does the clarity on response. To obtain this through clinical trials alone would take forever. For the lawsuit if it has merit the patients should be compensated as it stands it went nowhere but is now being considered on a patient by patient basis...it all comes out in the end!
"People that left here -- well -- we all make choices of where we hang our hats. Almost daily new folks come that need support, advice and direction from those of us that have been through the experience. That is what I try to do. I know you don't mean to suggest I am some sort of heat-seeking missile aimed at all that is good here. I appreciate your advice and suggestions. You are totally correct that one thing has united us here: hepatitis. I don't agree "reasoned argumentation" works in life. If everyone had a state of Reason it would but everyone doesn't do they? I would be interested in your feelings about that. I am sure you know that everyone can't be reasoned with -- in all walks of life. Some have agendas, or axioms, that make reasonable discussion very hard. Then another approach is necessary. That's my thinking on it."
Yes we all make decisions on where to hang our hats..it is a free world and nobody really knows who si reading...BUT we are the seasoned and resiliant veterans of the battle with good and bad outcomes. It is up to use to educate and support the newcomers not drive them away by what is posted. many are sensitive and I can't belive you never made a statement that got you the "look" and "attitude" from your significant other over something you thought was a innocent comment...the only differnce is here you don't get a chance to explain yourself in the immediate time frame.
You don't have to reason with everyone you just have to be reasonable with everyone. You can totally trash an opponents postion without personal attacks. Agendas are easy to spot and using accepted and documented human physiology and biochemistry is usually sufficient for opponent meltdown. I realize that I may be in a better postion to argue on that fronet given my background but collectively everyone here has the answers...it is a very well informed group.
Scott, you are right I don't think you seek to destroy all that is good I only think you need to think of the shy and sensitive ones amongst us. We are an eclectic group here and while we are resiliant there are those that are not...we must look after the lowest common denominatorThe diagnosis of HCV is devastating to most and the ramifications of the disease really suck but we still need to be polite to the most obvious of charlatans...civil discourse will reveal the truth in the claims...patience is all that is necessary. I know that doesn't provide the satisfaction of ripping your opponent a new one but in the long-run it will put more people off than win them over...the ripping part that is!
Hey I will be the first to admit I have not won alot of friends but more enemies in my discussions...the typical debate ends up with me being called a "pharma plant" or other such nonsense but is because I question what some consider a belief system of"facts" based in magical thinking rather than science...that is acceptable to me as collateral damage.
kind regards,
BobK
I have always tried to soak up the data and suggestions that you so cleverly and wisely offer, though sometimes they go over my head...
I must disagree with assigning responsibility for some of the oldies departure. It was their choice.
I have been angered and saddened by some of the events you mentioned, enough to think about dropping off the face of the forum.
I chose not to.
As with any relationships and interactions, unwelcomed, unpleasant things happen, but responsibility for the outcome does not fall on only one side of the fence.
In a committed relationship, a decission has to be made to ride out the storm and be there afterwards to help with the clean up, not abandon ship when waters get rough. If it is worth saving, and won't kill you to save it, stay.
To me, the good in the forum outweighs the bad, so I choose to continue. I don't think that assigning blame for those departures to one person, or a group, is a fair conclusion.
My belief, of course.
I must disagree with assigning responsibility for some of the oldies departure. It was their choice.
I have been angered and saddened by some of the events you mentioned, enough to think about dropping off the face of the forum.
I chose not to.
As with any relationships and interactions, unwelcomed, unpleasant things happen, but responsibility for the outcome does not fall on only one side of the fence.
In a committed relationship, a decission has to be made to ride out the storm and be there afterwards to help with the clean up, not abandon ship when waters get rough. If it is worth saving, and won't kill you to save it, stay.
To me, the good in the forum outweighs the bad, so I choose to continue. I don't think that assigning blame for those departures to one person, or a group, is a fair conclusion.
My belief, of course.
Scott,
In retrospect you are correct that it was a personal attack mentioning the "lynch mob" while failing to name names but you and these others are responsible for this pattern of bad behavior resulting in a number of very good people leaving.....eyedeas ring a bell? But it does not resolve me of making the attack and I will try to prevent such occurrences in the future.
I have stated my opinion on the vigilante activites that you and others have participated in....how about that elderly woman that you and others ran off simply because she used the handle "doc"?
I am very willing to let it all drop and I think I only mentioned it in the way I did was to bring something out that has been bothering me for awhile. Be careful what "you" post and if it addresses a individual in anything but support it probably should not be posted. Vindication (if your evidence is compelling) about Indy does not absolve you and others from the other activities that have occurred and has, as a end result, driven people who need help, information, and support.
Passion is not permission, reason, or justification to attack and drive people away from this forum. The only common denominator we share is disease. Many of us would never become friends or associate with or like each other but each and everyone of us has the right to be here free from personal attacks. Many have been driven off who were valuable contributing members and I think if you wish to do a service to this community you would work as hard to get them back as you did to remove Indy. Or do you just brush them off as collateral damage? Have you contacted Doc or her daughter in person as you did with Indy's case in an attempt to get her back or at least give her some consulation that she was not the evil manipulative being you tried to portray her as being?
The leaving of so many over the last (in a long list) of personal attacks is a cryin shame Scott and the cavalier attitude that you appear to have over their loss is bothersome. While I am speaking to you Scott by no means are you solely responsible and my comments apply to the others as well.
As for Thanbey(and others) the acceptable solution is not to attack her personally but to attach her arguments on an intellectual basis. Refute the arguements, do not attack the person no matter how you feel about them as a person. It detracts from the strength of "your" argument. If anything you need to even be more polite and considerate when trashing your opponents argument....you should take the higher ground and use evidence to state your point not vindictive rhetoric which actually weakens your position.
Yes send me the scoop on indy...***@****
And Yes we can move on to HCV issues and I think other issues as well....let's do it in a civil manner.
kind regards,
BobK
Ps: I am also very very sorry to hear of your relapse but do not second guess what you did or did not do since you have no idea if the hindsight approach would have an outcome any different. It is an excercise in self-flagelation and will not help you one bit. Been there done that didn't work nor help.
In retrospect you are correct that it was a personal attack mentioning the "lynch mob" while failing to name names but you and these others are responsible for this pattern of bad behavior resulting in a number of very good people leaving.....eyedeas ring a bell? But it does not resolve me of making the attack and I will try to prevent such occurrences in the future.
I have stated my opinion on the vigilante activites that you and others have participated in....how about that elderly woman that you and others ran off simply because she used the handle "doc"?
I am very willing to let it all drop and I think I only mentioned it in the way I did was to bring something out that has been bothering me for awhile. Be careful what "you" post and if it addresses a individual in anything but support it probably should not be posted. Vindication (if your evidence is compelling) about Indy does not absolve you and others from the other activities that have occurred and has, as a end result, driven people who need help, information, and support.
Passion is not permission, reason, or justification to attack and drive people away from this forum. The only common denominator we share is disease. Many of us would never become friends or associate with or like each other but each and everyone of us has the right to be here free from personal attacks. Many have been driven off who were valuable contributing members and I think if you wish to do a service to this community you would work as hard to get them back as you did to remove Indy. Or do you just brush them off as collateral damage? Have you contacted Doc or her daughter in person as you did with Indy's case in an attempt to get her back or at least give her some consulation that she was not the evil manipulative being you tried to portray her as being?
The leaving of so many over the last (in a long list) of personal attacks is a cryin shame Scott and the cavalier attitude that you appear to have over their loss is bothersome. While I am speaking to you Scott by no means are you solely responsible and my comments apply to the others as well.
As for Thanbey(and others) the acceptable solution is not to attack her personally but to attach her arguments on an intellectual basis. Refute the arguements, do not attack the person no matter how you feel about them as a person. It detracts from the strength of "your" argument. If anything you need to even be more polite and considerate when trashing your opponents argument....you should take the higher ground and use evidence to state your point not vindictive rhetoric which actually weakens your position.
Yes send me the scoop on indy...***@****
And Yes we can move on to HCV issues and I think other issues as well....let's do it in a civil manner.
kind regards,
BobK
Ps: I am also very very sorry to hear of your relapse but do not second guess what you did or did not do since you have no idea if the hindsight approach would have an outcome any different. It is an excercise in self-flagelation and will not help you one bit. Been there done that didn't work nor help.
WOW...I didn't know!
I'm sorry I popped in without warning and opened up the worm can myself...but from what I know about Jeff, he was both funny and supportive, with a whole lot of medical smarts, and a good deal of WILD thrown in for good measure.
He IS a good family man in spite of the out-spoken or controversial side you may have seen of him.
There will always be people around us that we don't completely understand their views, or agree with them sometimes. Everyone here, as in all walks of life, are different in there beliefs. Being open minded when interacting with folks on differing levels is a very valuable characteristic.
The only thing that surprizes me about Jeff's leaving is that I didn't suffer the same before him.
After all, I am the big ol' loud mouthed Red Neck from Tennessee that everybodys' Moms always warned you about! :-)
Happy Holidays !
Tosser
Hep C free almost a year now! :-D
I'm sorry I popped in without warning and opened up the worm can myself...but from what I know about Jeff, he was both funny and supportive, with a whole lot of medical smarts, and a good deal of WILD thrown in for good measure.
He IS a good family man in spite of the out-spoken or controversial side you may have seen of him.
There will always be people around us that we don't completely understand their views, or agree with them sometimes. Everyone here, as in all walks of life, are different in there beliefs. Being open minded when interacting with folks on differing levels is a very valuable characteristic.
The only thing that surprizes me about Jeff's leaving is that I didn't suffer the same before him.
After all, I am the big ol' loud mouthed Red Neck from Tennessee that everybodys' Moms always warned you about! :-)
Happy Holidays !
Tosser
Hep C free almost a year now! :-D
" You yourself asked for no personal attacks but call people a "lynch mob" ..."
A personal attack would by definition be directed at a person I haven't done so but since you stepped up to the plate I think your, and some others, behavior to other members of this forum is appaling. You clearly state that you come here to take your riba rage out on strangers...but you aren't on the medication....so I can only conclude that you think it is OK to be mean to folks seeking info for some personal gratification. I have seen others post that it is OK to act in this fashion because this is an anynomous forum.....like hiding behind a fake name gives a person permission to act out on people in a fashion they would not consider doing in person...I think not! The only reason people are anynomous is because they choose to be it certainly does not convey permission to go against established social contract on acceptable discourse and behavior.
We also need not restrict this discussion to behavior associated with Indy...there are many other instances...so many that a clear pattern of behavior is obvious...and its not very pretty.
Scott says: "Indy was pulling some nasty stuff and he admitted it. "
I must have missed this admission could you provide the link?
"You've been a big help to me throughout tx and I respect you but this mythology has to stop. Please let it go and practice what you preach."
Scott as I stated above this pattern of behavior goes beyond Indy. It is not an isolated instance and I will always speak out against appaling behavior against other members of this forum.
regards,
BobK
A personal attack would by definition be directed at a person I haven't done so but since you stepped up to the plate I think your, and some others, behavior to other members of this forum is appaling. You clearly state that you come here to take your riba rage out on strangers...but you aren't on the medication....so I can only conclude that you think it is OK to be mean to folks seeking info for some personal gratification. I have seen others post that it is OK to act in this fashion because this is an anynomous forum.....like hiding behind a fake name gives a person permission to act out on people in a fashion they would not consider doing in person...I think not! The only reason people are anynomous is because they choose to be it certainly does not convey permission to go against established social contract on acceptable discourse and behavior.
We also need not restrict this discussion to behavior associated with Indy...there are many other instances...so many that a clear pattern of behavior is obvious...and its not very pretty.
Scott says: "Indy was pulling some nasty stuff and he admitted it. "
I must have missed this admission could you provide the link?
"You've been a big help to me throughout tx and I respect you but this mythology has to stop. Please let it go and practice what you preach."
Scott as I stated above this pattern of behavior goes beyond Indy. It is not an isolated instance and I will always speak out against appaling behavior against other members of this forum.
regards,
BobK
Indiana was tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail by the local vigalante (sp) lynch mob......he hasn't been the only one to meet that fate on this a support forum.
regards,
BobK
regards,
BobK
Congrats!! As far as tothbrushes and razors, my Doc says to throw them out every couple weeks, to month. One of the first things she went over. Do not want to reinfect..
I even threw out the eyeliner...as for toothbrushes, if you got a new one at end of tx, change it as suggested by the Dental Assoc.
enjoy and good luck at 6 month mark...1/2 way there!
enjoy and good luck at 6 month mark...1/2 way there!
Ella
I am so very happy, :-) the emotions going through you at this time must be overwhelming. I am wishing you the Happiest of Thanksgivings.
God Bless..
TonyZ
Jeez, no one ever told me any of this. Now I have something new to worry about. I am surprised I didn't think of it before this.
Thanks all for your imput.
Thanks all for your imput.
Please tell me nothing bad has happened to one of our old friends Indiana man. I have made several attempts to contact him with no results.
*Someone please ping me off list if you have any information.
...and sorry it's been so long since I've been around but I finally got back to work full time and it's been a challenge to keep up the pace.
Tosser in Tennessee
(***@****)
*Someone please ping me off list if you have any information.
...and sorry it's been so long since I've been around but I finally got back to work full time and it's been a challenge to keep up the pace.
Tosser in Tennessee
(***@****)
Great News & just in time to make Thanksgiving a Special Holiday. In theory you could get reinfected therefore caution is the best precaution. I threw all my personal hygiene items out upon completing Tx. No point in keeping the stuff & possibly reinfecting myself or others.
Good luck to all,
Ben aka Pluto-Kid
Congratulations on the great news. I agree that you should be careful with razor blades and the like. There could be a risk and there is absolutely no reason not to exercise caution. I definitely wouldn't use razors that you have used before. Tooth brushes should probably be changed although I don't think there is much of a risk with them but why chance it. Good luck. Mike
Thanks Mrs Doubtfire.
I guess I should clarify my question. I am curious as to what would happen if we used our OWN razors, etc. and they still contained the virus that we had. I had never thought about this while I was on the treatment but did yesterday when I got my results and went to shave my legs. I immediately threw away the razor even though it is impossible that it would be infected after all this time.
But should this be something we should think about when we are on treatment? Should be throw out our toothbrushes every 3 days or something?
Maybe I am being paranoid. I would love to hear what rev thinks about this.
I guess I should clarify my question. I am curious as to what would happen if we used our OWN razors, etc. and they still contained the virus that we had. I had never thought about this while I was on the treatment but did yesterday when I got my results and went to shave my legs. I immediately threw away the razor even though it is impossible that it would be infected after all this time.
But should this be something we should think about when we are on treatment? Should be throw out our toothbrushes every 3 days or something?
Maybe I am being paranoid. I would love to hear what rev thinks about this.
I can take responsibility for that milk thistle dosage recommendation. As for taking a miniscule amount every four days--huh? Never heard of such a thing. Most therapeutic herbal dosages range from 1-3 gms daily, and with milk thistle you definitely want a steady supply in the bloodstream. Good prophylaxis if you're going to enjoy a drink on T-Day. (Check out Christopher Hobbs's _Foundations of Health: The Liver & Digestive Herbal_ and his monograph on milk thistle. He's a Santa Cruz herbalist/botanist who introduced the herb's use to the U.S. Most of the clinical research is from Germany, where it's widely prescribed.)
HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN !!!
i am so happy for you !!! -- not much fun huh ? I wouldnt use anything remotely associated with anything having to do with anyones blood after going through all this - Im assuming you have been vacinated for A and B ?
sooooooooo happy for you !
i am so happy for you !!! -- not much fun huh ? I wouldnt use anything remotely associated with anything having to do with anyones blood after going through all this - Im assuming you have been vacinated for A and B ?
sooooooooo happy for you !
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