Alcohol and Hep c

[nursebetty]

I found this site when doing a search on the internet.  Wow... a lot of info so I figured the readers here would not the answers I am looking for.  

My hubby recently found out he has anitbodies for hepatitis C.  The Dr. told him not to drink anymore (at least when treatment starts), but he feels the Dr. is just covering his rear end so to speak.

David (my husband) has done a lot if research on the internet and all studies seem to be geared to people who drink a lot (30-80 grams a day).  David probably only has 6-8 drinks all week and only of red wine.  He never drinks more than 3 drinks at a time.  He feels the Dr. is referring to alcoholics, not him.....and granted I do not belive he is one.  I have lived with him for 25 years.  

So.......I am looking for opinions so I can either take my hubby's side or the Dr's.  I hate to put it that way, but most of what I read says no alcohol.  

Any imput would be appreciated.  

Elizabeth and David

[Robin_Fla]

Thanks *girl* ;-) Am a former nygirl myself.

Can't believe I was so stupid to take a chance with the booze mid-way through tx - even though it was just ONE drink. Wow, what a weak moment that was. Hope my sincere regret on that will help someone faced with a similar desire at some point (either before, during or after tx). Thanks for your opinions on the topic - I can tell that your passion originates from your own experience and that everyone should take it in that light.

And now I will admit to an even greater weakness - one of the *almost* subconcious, never verbalized, underlying motivations for deciding to tx was the hope that one day I could resume my life as it was before. One of our collective problems I think is that a lot of us don't feel or look sick, and so the consequences are just not as apparent to us or our friends/family who all live that carefree boozing lifestyle! I have never known anyone personally that has had HCV or any liver disease so I haven't seen the impact first hand.

I can tell you all however that I just returned from visiting a dear friend in the hospital that has rapidly advancing pancreatic cancer. He's younger than me and is in his early forties, and doesn't have much time left. Very sad indeed, and a wake up call to me as I do not want to be lying in that bed with liver failure now or any day down the road because I made a foolish, foolish choice. Hope I can keep things in the right perspective a couple of years from now when I have SVR! I may really need everyone's help then too! :-)

These forums are indeed good support, even if we need to filter a bit sometimes. I wish I had a local support group to make it more personal but haven't found one as yet. Thanks to all who post here.

Take care,

Robin

[nygirl7]

what an articulate post. Good for you. That really was fantastic and I wish you all the back.

In regard to your question "Aside from the damage to the liver itself that alcohol causes, I also read somewhere that alcohol can actually cause the virus to replicate more rapidly. Does anyone know if this is accurate? "

Iron will help the virus replicate more rapidly - what happens when you drink alcohol on tx and why it is SO critical not to is that it can take the interferon and completely toss it's efficacy (I can't spell) out the window.  Meaning, that the virus would have full ability to come running back in and begin to replicate because there would be no med in you to stop it from happening.  So that is why it is said to "be able to replicate the virus" because it makes the interferon a moot point and terminates it's effectiveness.

Who needs that?  Anyone who has treated will tell someone like nursebetty that it's SO HARD to do the treatment (in my case I od'd riba for several months and destroyed my hemo and the anemia almost killed me) so that once it becomes a question of sabotaging all the work that is so dreadful and horrid that you are doing.......that is why I am fanatical about people really "getting" it that you just can't drink during treatment.  Why sabotage your own chance of SVR when it's so difficult a quest to get to anyway?  And it's something a lot of people DONT understand.

[shastri20032003]

The forum is probably having one of its off days,like we all do have sometimes, and as someone mentioned,you need to filter the opinion here,take the good and leave the ones you donot agree with,since ultimately its your husbands liver we are talking about

This forum has played an important part in my treatment decisions when I was diagnosed with hep c in sept 06   and I have recieved a lot of support and advise since then

Quote"So.......I am looking for opinions so I can either take my hubby's side or the Dr's.  I hate to put it that way, but most of what I read says no alcohol."Unquote
In my opinion you shoud definitely take the docters side  due to the following reasons
1) we are talking about a life threatening disease here,so why take a chance?
2)A smoker wouldn't be asking a similar question for a lung disease so I guess that applies for hep c and liver also?..... in fact since your husband is not an addict it would be so much more easier for him to stop than somebody like me who used to go on a daily binge until I got diagnosed with hep c.....
3)If you google,you would find most of the sites  advocate  avoiding alcohol pre trreatment, a nono on treatment and maybe no post treatment which would match with opinions from most hepatologists
4)there have been studies which show alcohol does lead to rapid replication of hep c virons,but unfortunately I donot have these studies on hand
5)See the positive side...saves you a lot of dollars every month!:)
Wishing you the best in whatever you decide....but my opinion is leaning towards making him stop..at leat till he is SVR(virus undetectable one year post treatment)
Shastri

[Robin_Fla]

Aside from the damage to the liver itself that alcohol causes, I also read somewhere that alcohol can actually cause the virus to replicate more rapidly. Does anyone know if this is accurate?

Robin

[Robin_Fla]

Dear NurseB,

Hope you aren't gone from here and that you are still reading the posts that may actually help you and your husband get the info and help you're looking for! I am new to this forum but have been on several others...am in my 8th month of tx with an EVR/RVR (yay!!).

Just have to tell you and your hubby, that in my experience, the whole giving up alcohol thing was also very difficult for me. It was not so much that I had/have a drinking problem but I did enjoy all things alcohol as a lifestyle (nice wine collection, lots of wine touring, microbrew aficionado, and more than my fair share of partying). Frankly, I am still not over it (and for the rest of you posters, please don't take aim at me now!) and I dream for the day when I am a year or two SVR so I can crack open that bottle of fine red that is one of the few that I didn't give away.

Even for those that aren't alcoholics, denial can be a strong pull. It is easy to long for the care-free (or unwitting in my case) days when we didn't know that we were HCV pos. The first couple of months in my new "dry" lifestyle, I was desperate to find truly NA beverages that were ok to drink (there isn't such a thing) or NA drink recipes that taste like the real thing (ditto), or some way to feel the relaxation that a few drinks can produce. Nope - just needed to suck it up and stop drinking, and it stunk. Still does, but I am doing my best.

So, I completely understand your husband's reaction that he doesn't intend to stop drinking (if even occasionally), and I also completely understand why it is critically important that he does do so. My best advice to you is to use your expertise as a psyche nurse and help him with the denial he may be experiencing - it is very hard to give up one lifestyle for another cold turkey when it is not our elective choice.

I find that reading the experiences of others - the good, bad and the ugly - really helps me to reinforce that I too want to beat this thing, want to protect my liver as I can, and that I need to choose the right choices in order to maximize the odds.

To all you other posters - here's possibly the first person on here who actually admits to having A drink DURING tx (OMG, ready-set-fire). [Was on vacation and was tired of never having fun like the good old days]. But thanks to all the *strong* opinions posted here on just how stupid ANY alcohol is for us, I am back on the right track and will remain alcohol-free to the end of tx and beyond.

So, Nurse, if you are still with us, perhaps you can convince/educate hubby to quit during tx for a start to maximize his chance of a successful outcome. Maybe if he does that, it won't seem like such a daunting thing.

Good luck to you both -

Robin

[alagirl]

In my estimation, anyone who comes here seeking advice deserves information and support from this board and not a turned back.  Anyone who doesn't wish to provide that support can easily withdraw it by not answering the question.  There is no reason to ostracize a new poster, especially one with a husband who is just getting used to the fact that he has a disease as serious as hepc, much less the fact that he will have to alter his entire lifestyle.  I can't see turning my back on people who ask valid questions regarding the disease and its treatment, particularly when people have done me the kindness of answering my questions.  

Nursebetty, here's my take on the situation.  Of course, I'm not a doctor and I'm pretty new here myself, having just been diagnosed at the end of August.  But I think that if your husband's liver enzymes are up and he's had the virus for a while, then there is fairly good chance there is some damage to his liver.  I also think that only a biopsy can tell him for sure whether there is damage, and if so, how much.  And it really isn't a huge deal to get one.  

Also, he should be referred to a competent hepatologist who is well versed in treating hepc patients.  To ME, the type of drinking you describe in his past does not make him sound like an alcoholic.  More of a social drinker.  I'm almost a teetotaler, and nobody in my family really drinks.  But.  I don't happen to think that a couple of beers makes someone Satan.  If, however, he has some damage to his liver, it can really be helped along a lot more rapidly since he has hepc.  It's just one of those unfortunate facts of the disease.  So he has to make an assessment about what he wants to do keeping that in mind.  There is also some evidence that drinking can help the virus replicate more quickly.  So that's information for him to consider in his decision as well.  Sometimes when people are first diagnosed with any serious illness, its easy to want to deny the reality of it.  It's scary.  I was scared. certainly, when I first found out.  

Antidepressants are frequently very helpful for people going through treatment.  Some people are reluctant to take them though, but they can really help.  I hope you won't let the remarks on this thread, which has always been a contentious topic, stop you from coming here for support and information.  This can be a really great place to find answers to so many questions about test results, medication and side effects.

I had an experience like your husband where I have smelled smoke and some other odd things, but it happened this week about three days after I started treatment, so I felt pretty sure it was related to my medication.  Good luck to both of you!  

[PSP-n-Me]

well the second half of my tx was more "trying" than the first 24 weeks - I ended up on Procrit, my hmg dropped to 8.4 or 8.6 I forget - But it's back up to 11 now and they want to see how I do with one more week to determine whether to have me skip a week then take it a week...I feel better now - thank God - Anemia sure can whoop a *dips* butt..
How you feeling?

[antman]

sounds about right. BTW- how did you make out in the end?

[PSP-n-Me]

I meant to say your stop date should be the 20th not your start date - darn brain fog LOL

[PSP-n-Me]

I started january 24th and finish the 18th of december so your start date should be the 20th, I think???

[antman]

Dec. 28th, i think! i started Jan 26 this year.

[PSP-n-Me]

I finish treatment in Dec also - Dec 18th is my date, how bout you?

[antman]

oops- reposted in another thread above!

[antman]

hi all, i've been lurking but not posting for a while. no reason, really, just caught up in my own tx and stuff. anyway, i'm on the the last leg of tx. i've got untill Christmas to go (48 weeks). i'm doing peg/riba 1200 mg. my stats are: 50 m, geno 1a , st.1/grade 2 .start vl 3 mil. ,12 weeks 55, UND between 12 - 15 weeks, UND at 24 weeks. sides have not been too bad. fatigue from mild anemia being the main one.but's i can't complain.i'm tolerating tx. pretty well. i take anti-depressants, which really help.i'm working full time and not missing too much work. just hoping for the best! and you all know what that means- UND forever!. i'll post back periodically. take care, be well, all.

[nygirl7]

" MR Liver go somewhere else to quiver hahahaha "

You're still a wild card aren't you girl? ;)

[PSP-n-Me]

you are very astute!  yes our Mr Liver is not who the name says and if you would care to know who the person behind the curtain really is email me LOL

MR Liver go somewhere else to quiver hahahaha

[nygirl7]

You are not alone.  Just wanted to know there are a couple of us with the same line of though.

Nice to know you aren't alone.

[R Glass]

Ladies and Gentlemen, LET THE GAMES BEGIN

[jmjm530]

The monthly record for most alcohol posts in a thread is "103".  Didn't think this thread would break it, but the addition of "marijuana" to the mix, could result in a new record. I do hope no one points out that cigarette smoking, excessive use of pain killers and other OTC drugs, overcomsumption of Surcrose (See Dr. D's Video) and being overweight  and under-exercised isn't very helpful to the HCV liver as well. So let's keep that to ourselves.

-- Jim

[R Glass]

This is going to be good.
I can just imagine the circling of the Lion Pride waiting to pounce.

[nothing but the facts]

There are no absolutes regarding chronic hcp. It is essential that your hubby have a biopsy done. Then you can tell how much if any liver damage has occurred. Yes,
type 2 and 3 are the easiest to treat. Treatment is very
hard but manageable if you are strong and resolute to get
better. I hope your gastro doc has an RN hcp specialist
to get you the kind of help and support your man needs.
As far as elevated LFT'S relating to hcp I can give you
my personal case. Like your hubby my LFT'S were normal for many years but signicantly elevated last year to 199
alt and 143 ast. I took labs and confirmed hcv virus with
6 million viral load and genotype 1a (the worst). My biopsy read that I had stage 4 fibrosis with bridging that my doctor stated was low grade cirrhosis. That was enough for me to radicalize my life style. I decreased my alcohol to no more than 2 drinks a week (wine or beer) and stopped smoking blunts. One of the things I read about hcv was that after being infected with the virus liver damage was increased 7 fold for marijuana use. Much more than alcohol use, that is still contributore to liver damage. Controlled moderation is the key. Even though I had all the risk factors for unsuccessful treatment (genotype 1a, age over 60,high viral load,etc) I became virus free after 12 weeks and I am still virus free 4 months post tx. One other thing,
your hubby should drink tons of water and always take the
ribavirin with FOOD. Best of luck to you and your hubby...

[honey11]

Copy,,,I don't think Mr. Liver is Rev if that is who you are thinking. He always comes back as Revenire.  I do think Mr. Liver is right though,,,,our welcome wagon here definitely needs some work for newcomers.  I know everyone is just very definite about this subject and we all have been studying this disease for a very long time so know what is good for the liver and what is not.   But thinking back to when I first learned I had this disease,,,,I knew nothing about it and do remember coming to medhelp and asking so many questions and many caring people out there helped me through each step.  I really feel we should show Elizabeth and David a little more compassion and make them comfortable to come back and ask all kinds of questions.  

[copyman]

there is something about you that just is not right. i cant figure it out just yet but i will. i do believe you are someone else that use to come here but now using this new name. you  are very controversial and a "know it all". just wanted you to know that some here are on to you!

[geterdone]

Here is the kicker of this whole thread


I appreciate your concern, but if my husband was a heavy drinker for the last 25 years I would know it.  He drinks 6-8 glasses of red wine a week (not a day). I only asked because he seemed reluctant to give up our only vice.  EDucation is what he needs, not speculation.  I don't know where you got the idea he is "hard core" drinker.  Maybe that was someone elses entry.

Yes, indeed, the AA thumpers ride again.
Look all when you start these meds you'll be just too damn sick by the third week to even care because you'll be damn preoccupied being sick of the changes your body is going through and experience is the best teacher.

Cheers!
jasper