BIOPSY GONE TERRIBLY WRONG!

[ronrico]

I went into UW Madison hospital on Feb. 6th 2006 for a liver biopsy. Everything seemed routine this being my third biopsy in 12 years. At 9:05am Dr. Lucey stuck me with biopsy needle. I felt the clicking sound of it as he then withdrew the needle. I immediately said to Dr. Lucey and his intern that it was not so bad. It just did not seem as bad as the others. I got no comment from Dr. Lucey as he studied his needle back towards me. After about ten seconds I felt incredible burning pain that seemed to be moving from the injection site down into my abdomen. I screamed "something is wrong!" He said "oh yes, it seems I have punctured your gall bladder." There was no lying still as the pain was excruciating as he directed the nurse to administer morphine and contact my wife for permission to remove my gall bladder. They tried morphine, fenfenil and delappidan and gave me a button to give myself morphine as needed. None of it helped. For the next 4 hours I lay in recovery swearing at everything. Every breath was pure pain. Finally just before I was to be taken in to remove gall bladder they sent me for a cat scan in hopes that the puncture would naturally close. After four hours it had stopped leaking the bile into my abdomen. I post this to anyone who is contemplating having a biopsy. THERE IS NOTHING ROUTINE ABOUT IT! I was tortured for the next 36 hours on a morphine drip after being admitted to the hospital. They also flushed me with antibiotics to prevent infection. A 12 year old girl died from the same thing 2 years ago after being sent home. AVOID DR. LUCEY!!!

[friole]

I am so sorry about your biopsy. There are always risks in any surgery and you are right to point this out.  Unfortunately, the value still outweighs the risk for most of us C patients.  It is still the besy way to determine the amount of damage.  However, you bring out a point that should be considered by everyone going in for a biopsy.  What kind of biopsy should I have? The Janis 7 sight has a good discussion on the various biopsies available.
  
http://janis7hepc.com/biopsies.htm#What you need to Know

Most of us get the standard needle biopsy - kind of a punch and stab technique.  I believe the procedure all depends on the skill of the technician - and it is often a tech, not a doc.  Janis 7 suggests asking how many biopsies a year the tech/doc performs.  It should be at least 50 for you to feel comfortable about the procedure.

Another option, and I think much better, is a fine needle biopsy with ultrasonograph or CT guidance.  This ultra-sound guided biopsy gives the tech a much better feel for where to go.  I think one should ask for this.

When I talked to my GI about the biopsy he said "who do you want to do it -- a tech or a surgeon?"  I am not a real quick thinker and was surprised he did not do it himself, but I said surgeon (hands down) so I had a laparoscopic biopsy preformed by a surgeon.  They make 2 incisions in the abdomen - one is for the laproscope to send pictures back to determine the correct site and the other is for the needle. I was put out totally and the procedure was almost painless.  I don't believe it was more costly than a needle biopsy either (but the surgeon was a friend, and I think he helped somewhat on the bill).

Bottom line is that we need to be proactive with the biopsy too.  Ronrico, I am so sorry about what happened to you, but it sounds like you will have to deal with the issue again.  Please ask for a CT or ultrasound guided or a laparascopic biopsy and please take care
frijole

[honey11]

Ron,,,,Wow!!  Does sound like the biopsy from Hell! I haven't heard of that happening and think I would feel better now if I could punch that dr out for your misery!  I know that you had to be in so much pain!

Dyce,,,your first shot sounded like mine!  In fact,,,,lol,,,,I was trying to figure out after that doozy if I even wanted anymore samples.  2nd shot much better and never had another like the 1st!  Hope it goes better for you this next week!

[lilmoma]

I know that while the odds could be one in a million, if your the one, then it is one too many.
I cannot complain, my biopsy was so simple, and painless, I could have left right afterward, but they made me lay on my side for 4 hours, and I felt like "let me outta here, Im fine"
I am sorry you had to be the "one" but I believe it is overall safe and necessary to have this procedure done. women still die during childbirth "ocassionally" but we wouldnt say stop having children to all. It just is unfortunate to all involved to say the least.
lilmoma

[mikesimon]

I can relate to the feeling of a bile leak. After transplant I had a bile tube and after 90 days I went to have it removed. The moment it was removed I had terrible pain - unbearable pain and I too swore up a storm and demanded morphine which did help me. They repaired my leak with a stent placed through endoscopy and I was okay, but the leak was one of the most painful experiences I've had. You definitely have my deepest sympathy for what you went through. I agree with Honey - <B>everyone should insist on an ultra sound guided biopsy.</B> The only reason for the old fashioned bedside biopsy is an emergency or the hospital isn't equiped for the procedure. Mike

[can-do-man]

I agree with Honey - everyone should insist on an ultra sound guided biopsy
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Hope every one reads that, We need to remind people here that are going to have a bx. Thanks to both of you

[honey11]

Thanks for the agreement with me but,,,lol  I didn't say that very good advice,,,,Friole!  She knows her stuff! Hey Kathy,,,Good morning to ya and sounds like your concert turned out fun even though you may have thought you were the babysitter at times haha

Cando,,,Wanted an excuse to say HI! lol  You are so much fun and I love to read your posts!  Got my fingers crossed for ya tonite for a gentle shot!

[ronrico]

I felt I should relate my story to everyone. In retrospect, my message is wrong. I do not want to scare people away from this procedure. I do want to warn anyone in Wisconsin from having Dr. Lucey. My post was filled with still fresh hatred for this particular Dr. Lucey. Believe it or not, my procedure was done with ultrasound guidance so this compounds Dr. Lucey's incompetence. While in hospital I asked every medical person I encountered about what had happened to me. They were all shocked and it had never happened at UW hospital before. The UW hospital is highly regarded. I have filed formal complaints with state agencies who are investigating. I was told by several other Doctors that it is hard to imagine how he could extract gall bladder and get no liver at all with ultrasound guidance. During stay in hospital the cat scan was repeated twice to make sure the leak had stopped. I do face another biopsy ans I have been informed of alternative entry points. One of them comes down above the collar bone and one comes from under the ribcage. I have not decided which procedure to try. I was released with oxycondone and I was very sore for about two weeks after. I was also told that aside from puncturing the gall bladder he may have damaged a nerve which exacerbated the pain. Good health to all...Ron

[NYgirl]

Did you have an ultrasound guided biopsy?  That is what I had and with it I have to say the margin for error seems less since they look at exactly what they are doing at the moment.

That is just so horrible.  While I didn't like the bx it certainly wasn't anything so horrible.

Get rid of that particular doctor ASAP I just don't understand how that could happen at all!

What was he sleeping?

Was it ULTRASOUND GUIDED?

[NYgirl]

Eating fat is the best thing and what we really SHOULD do with the RIBA - as it is fat soluable or something and it helps to get it into our system.

I ALWAYS do - even if it's just a yogurt shake or something like that if I can't eat.

and I always take a little ice cream with it if possible...just for the fun :)

Sorry your sides were so bad - they will get better in time I'm sure...hang in there!  Just remember when it feels bad...that it's feeling bad because you are winning the war and kicking the **** out of those virus in there!

[bwave2u]

It is a very routine procedure. I didn't have anything as terrible happen to me as you but I did have a minor problem during my last bx. they nicked a nerve in my liver that caused me quite a bit of pain in my shoulder. the odds of something like this happening are incredibly low. as with ANY procedure things can happen. terribly sorry that happened to you but we shouldn't try to scare people off of having thier bx done. IT IS the best way to find out the amount of liver damage. In your post you can about feel your fear of the bx. you know how rare something like that is right? as a matter of fact, just to show the new-bee's how rare it is why don't we take a poll? Opinions on bx's? take care everyone:)

[dyce]

Wow Rico, thats scarey! I take,since it's been a month since this happened your now ok. I'm curious ,did this doc. use the catscan imaging machine before poking the needle into your gallbladder. I've had 2 bx since 1999 and both times they used the catscan for a measure to besure to bx the liver and not another organ. Sorry for your bad experience and hang in there.

Dyce

[beamishboy]

rico-chilling tale of medical mishap-Damn,yu got that right:stay away from that butcher!!
Dyce-how ya doing? hope yur cruising & losing them bugs bigtime!! have a good saturday-All

[dyce]

Good sunday morning . I'm doing alright now but friday the 1st shot and riba dosage knocked the **** outta me. Had to do the shot 11 oclock fri. morning because I had to be shown by the np how to do it . About 6 hours later it started, cold, shook so hard my teeth chattered. Aches and pains, felt like I drank grain alcohol all nite, with a ballbat beating at the end. Head ached so bad it made me sick to the stomach. Finally I broke down and took a lortab and that helped alot. What a wild ride that was. Took 600mg of riba at 5oclock this morning with a bagel and philadelphia creme cheese and a yogurt. Right now I feel ok. Cool we can eat fat with the riba!

Hows the insurance thing going for you? Been wondering about that. How you been doing?

Dyce

[can-do-man]

Dude you had a bx. from hell, hope all is better with you. Do find another doctor. Best of luck to ya.

Beam, Hope you have a good day also. Even those yours will be a saturday, and ours will be a sunday. Good luck to ya

[can-do-man]

At least i know you took the right meds there dyce. Oh the sides from hell, don't you just love em. Best of luck to you.

[beamishboy]

Dyce-insurance is gone!-i am applying for ,hoping to buy my way into another plan;My trx meds are covered by" commitmnt to care"-awesome people&program!also applied for drug-assist for procrit? no matter what,i am continueing trx to the end.only 32 more weeks-no sweat!...i am undetectable,what else could possibly matter?
Can-do: excuse my lapse,i am living(just not thinkin) in the same hemisphere& it's sunday here..beautiful sunny day-lite is blinding off the snow-sun coming up nice&early now!! winter begone,virus begone-What a wonderful day!

[can-do-man]

No excuse needed, i wish it was saturday. Sunday is shootem up day for me. Hope the procrit works out for. Enjoy your day

[dodger1]

The same thing happened to me 1 year ago in February.  I did have a guided ultrasound and the doctor still punctured a hole in my gallbladder also.  He sent me home and did not tell me and a hour later I was screaming in pain.  I went back to the hospital and he said I had a small bile leak and it would close up on its own.  He tried to send me home 5 days later and I insisted on another doctor. The new surgeon went in and my galbadder was gangreen and I had that peratinitis set in.  If I would have went home over the weekend like he said I would have been dead.  They told me the same thing that it is 1 in a million that it would happen and I guess we were the lucky ones.  I lost my galbladder for no reason and have not been the same since.  I have bile backing up into my stomach now because the surgeon did not do the galbladder surgery right.  Now they want to take my stomach out and re-run my tubes to stop the bile from going into my stomach.  So I know exactly where you are coming from because I have been there.  I am  going to University of Chicago now.  I do  not mess with any of these doctors in Indiana.  Best of luck to you!  Sheila....

[NYgirl]

Holy GOD if I ever heard of a reason to do a research on surgeons before that is it.  I mean I don't know how you even do such a thing but my GOD you poor thing.  I hope somehow it resolves that is one of the worst things I've heard in a long time.

[mikesimon]

That really is a wild story. I haven't ever heard of such a thing and I have had my share of biopsies and at the transplant clinic where I go I know a lot of people there who have had a bunch of them. I never heard of a puntured gall bladder with an ultra sound guided biopsy. I have had many bedside biopsies and once had the doctor drop the sample vial on the floor. I have had them have to repeat a bedside but nothing like what you described. I believe with my guided biopsy a machine(it reminded me of a stable gun) was used and the location was just below my sternum. All the bedsides were through my side between my ribs. Man, I really feel for you. Mike

[harty29]

Does taking the riba with fat make it work better, or lesson the side effects?  Another thing my doc never mentioned to me!

[mikesimon]

Increases efficiency but doesn't reduce the sides. Mike

[friole]

Those are horrible stories about incompetentdoctors - a string of incompetent doctors in Dodger's case.  I am so sorry you both had to endure this.  Fortunately for us this is a rare thing

Honey - yes, had fun at the concert last night.  Didn't make it to the end - way past my bedtime - plus my eardrums were getting blown out. When we first walked in, I told Bill, if we don't see anybody else over 50 we are leaving...... fortunately we did. Next week the same place is having a Celtic festival with Irish and Scottish music.  Now I think I can handle that - I love Celtic music.

[dyce]

How are you doing? Yes it's good to take the riba with a food thats fatty because it's fat soluble and the body absorbs the med. better when taken with a high fat food. That does't mean we should go crazy and eat all kind of fat foods. Alot of fatty foods are not good for our livers especially if we have fatty liver or cirrosious. Be moderate and by the way we're not doctors here so you may want to ask your doc.

Good luck, Dyce