Aa
How Much is a Life Worth?
I'm posting this link because it seems so relevant to what many on forum are facing, too.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21209744/
Title of the article is "How Much is a Life Worth?"
It deals more with chemo patients but, afterall, interferon is a type of chemo and many of us face similar issues when it comes to financing our treatment..
Wyntre
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21209744/
Title of the article is "How Much is a Life Worth?"
It deals more with chemo patients but, afterall, interferon is a type of chemo and many of us face similar issues when it comes to financing our treatment..
Wyntre
Oh, don't take it personally, LL.
It's just the 'Actuaries' making these decisions and, after all, they're just doing their job, right?
Yeah, I better stop, too, or I'll get banned from Forum.
So glad your sister is still fighting.
wyntre
It's just the 'Actuaries' making these decisions and, after all, they're just doing their job, right?
Yeah, I better stop, too, or I'll get banned from Forum.
So glad your sister is still fighting.
wyntre
And we here, are ALL 'fighting for more time", in general and in quality. Our's is simply more slow progressing, but very well could be the one's waiting on a liver, at 62 and wanting a few more mths. or years. My sister asked for one thing after being misdiagnosed at 47 yrs. old (OH, it's a hemorrhoid, your young, a year later stage 4 colon rectal dx.) when told ‘can’t ‘heal’ you NOW……. "Just keep me here until my grandson is old enough to understand me leaving him!"
7 years later, massive chemo @ 6 mths. out of every 12 and cancer moving all thru her, she is still here and they are still ‘slowing it down’ every time it pops up waiting for newer, could save her drugs. HAD she been judged one of those ‘no hope, why give it to this one” people, we wouldn’t have had her for SEVEN years now and still hanging on!
NOW I gotta stop!
Lauri
7 years later, massive chemo @ 6 mths. out of every 12 and cancer moving all thru her, she is still here and they are still ‘slowing it down’ every time it pops up waiting for newer, could save her drugs. HAD she been judged one of those ‘no hope, why give it to this one” people, we wouldn’t have had her for SEVEN years now and still hanging on!
NOW I gotta stop!
Lauri
mirceani,
My wonderful PCP was from Russia. What a wonderful man. He was SHOCKED at the runaround I got by the health insurance and prescription companies, especially since he knew I'd spent 20 years in a very dysfunctional school system.
I had to fight for meds, FLMA and disability leave even though I (like most Americans) paid into the system for decades and NEVER got a handout from anyone. Heck . . . I just paid off student loans . . . 20 years after graduating with an MA + 30..
I have to say i don't blame the doctors and the researchers for this: IMHO most of those folk have a passion either to be hands on helping people or finding drugs that cure.
it's the friggin profit motive driving the engine . . . we're just the slaves . . . the feudal masters were asristocrats, property owners, land owners - the modern version are
hedge fund mangers, ceo's, 'investment bankers.' "Masters of the Universe" according to Wolf. It's all the same sh**. Property, wealth, profits . . . screw everyone else . . .
Oh . . . so sorry . . . politics isn't allowed here -. . . probably makes some too uncomfortable . . . sorry again. . . bone aches and pains messing with my head today . . . .
beamishboy,
Yup. A billion dollars a week now, isn't it? Or is it a billion a day?
wyntre
My wonderful PCP was from Russia. What a wonderful man. He was SHOCKED at the runaround I got by the health insurance and prescription companies, especially since he knew I'd spent 20 years in a very dysfunctional school system.
I had to fight for meds, FLMA and disability leave even though I (like most Americans) paid into the system for decades and NEVER got a handout from anyone. Heck . . . I just paid off student loans . . . 20 years after graduating with an MA + 30..
I have to say i don't blame the doctors and the researchers for this: IMHO most of those folk have a passion either to be hands on helping people or finding drugs that cure.
it's the friggin profit motive driving the engine . . . we're just the slaves . . . the feudal masters were asristocrats, property owners, land owners - the modern version are
hedge fund mangers, ceo's, 'investment bankers.' "Masters of the Universe" according to Wolf. It's all the same sh**. Property, wealth, profits . . . screw everyone else . . .
Oh . . . so sorry . . . politics isn't allowed here -. . . probably makes some too uncomfortable . . . sorry again. . . bone aches and pains messing with my head today . . . .
beamishboy,
Yup. A billion dollars a week now, isn't it? Or is it a billion a day?
wyntre
I can not even get started in this one or it will be a book! Health care has always been a very touchy conversation with me!
There is simply too many people suffering and dying for lack of money, which is just a disgrace. Period! I have helped many with loopholes and more costly, to the facilities, round about ways to get care and it's a disgrace we can work all our life's, get sick, than have to sell, get rid of everything to get the same medical help the crack head mother of 4 gets for sitting on her arse doing NOTHING for society. My sister is one who had to do that after 7 years with 'chronic' cancer.Even has to 'divorce' after YEARS of working, and paying MANY medical bill's. MANY, MANY, MANY things could be changed, gotten rid of to help this! I KNOW many that have suffered, given up as they could not get care. I know women who have gotten pregnant to 'quailify' to get medical assistance, they could not get! We may have a great country, but our health care system NEEDS HELP! The ONLY time the terminal, or person fighting for a 'few more mths'. (and IF it was you, that few more mths, would mean much more!) is when it's the situation of wether the 25 year old man get's the only available heart/organ or the above! ANY other treatment AVAILABLE to ANYONE suffering/fighting to live SHOULD be gotten!
I am in a study trial my Dr. put me into right away, and thank God as I have lousy insurance and don't know how I would have done this, and I am not 'poor'!
SEE.... I can't get started here! I have to stop.
I started this post to say I hope all that are trying to get care/assistance learn how to or the loop holes or whatever it takes to get it.And God Bless those trying/needing help.
Lauri
There is simply too many people suffering and dying for lack of money, which is just a disgrace. Period! I have helped many with loopholes and more costly, to the facilities, round about ways to get care and it's a disgrace we can work all our life's, get sick, than have to sell, get rid of everything to get the same medical help the crack head mother of 4 gets for sitting on her arse doing NOTHING for society. My sister is one who had to do that after 7 years with 'chronic' cancer.Even has to 'divorce' after YEARS of working, and paying MANY medical bill's. MANY, MANY, MANY things could be changed, gotten rid of to help this! I KNOW many that have suffered, given up as they could not get care. I know women who have gotten pregnant to 'quailify' to get medical assistance, they could not get! We may have a great country, but our health care system NEEDS HELP! The ONLY time the terminal, or person fighting for a 'few more mths'. (and IF it was you, that few more mths, would mean much more!) is when it's the situation of wether the 25 year old man get's the only available heart/organ or the above! ANY other treatment AVAILABLE to ANYONE suffering/fighting to live SHOULD be gotten!
I am in a study trial my Dr. put me into right away, and thank God as I have lousy insurance and don't know how I would have done this, and I am not 'poor'!
SEE.... I can't get started here! I have to stop.
I started this post to say I hope all that are trying to get care/assistance learn how to or the loop holes or whatever it takes to get it.And God Bless those trying/needing help.
Lauri
we spend billions,nay trillions killing(U.S. military bugdet is bigger than the rest of world combined! )....but must be 'fiscally prudent' when considering expansion of healthcare for our children....how cruel is that?
I lived in a cruel dictatorship and a comunist society (Romania) for the first 35 years of my life.
For the last 17, I lived in US and I'm an american now.
I can tell you that my mother (82) had cancer 20 years ago
She is a surviver, and she was treated succesfully in that communist regime.
It was absolutelly FREE.
For the last 17, I lived in US and I'm an american now.
I can tell you that my mother (82) had cancer 20 years ago
She is a surviver, and she was treated succesfully in that communist regime.
It was absolutelly FREE.
Horn,
I wonder if you would have responded n such a flippant manner had something similar happened to you, or someone you love, or someone in your family; a friend, a colleague, a client . . .
To relegate health and longevity to the impersonal abstract theories of 'actuaries' is
somewhat shortsighted, don't you think? Like a feudal system where the lives of serfs are controlled by 'actuaries' and the 'actuariy/aristocrats.'
BTW, the last feudal system in Europe wasn't disbanded until the 20th century.
Some things just aren't amusing.
Pigeon,
I agree.
wyntre
I wonder if you would have responded n such a flippant manner had something similar happened to you, or someone you love, or someone in your family; a friend, a colleague, a client . . .
To relegate health and longevity to the impersonal abstract theories of 'actuaries' is
somewhat shortsighted, don't you think? Like a feudal system where the lives of serfs are controlled by 'actuaries' and the 'actuariy/aristocrats.'
BTW, the last feudal system in Europe wasn't disbanded until the 20th century.
Some things just aren't amusing.
Pigeon,
I agree.
wyntre
The only way to make the rules ourselves is to get out there and vote for the candidate whose views most closely match our own. None of the dems has a perfect health plan, but they're a start. The republicans haven't a clue other than health saving accounts. I can't imagine myself at age 30, treating for hep c or cancer, and possibly having enough savings to cover what insurance doesn't pay. For this I thank God that I'm old and comfortable.
Oh. . . you mean;
"A specialist in the mathematics of risk, especially as it relates to insurance calculations such as premiums, reserves, dividends, and insurance and annuity rates. They work for insurance companies to evaluate applications based on risk."
I guess you're comfortable with that or find yourself in a situation that benefits from those calculations. I can't imagine you would be joking about it if you were someone whose risk was considered off-the-charts.
Like Child-4 Angel's mom who was denied treatment for colorectal cancer and subsequently died from it one day before the bureaucracy reconsidered her case and approved treatment.
Of course by then it was too late.
wyntre
"A specialist in the mathematics of risk, especially as it relates to insurance calculations such as premiums, reserves, dividends, and insurance and annuity rates. They work for insurance companies to evaluate applications based on risk."
I guess you're comfortable with that or find yourself in a situation that benefits from those calculations. I can't imagine you would be joking about it if you were someone whose risk was considered off-the-charts.
Like Child-4 Angel's mom who was denied treatment for colorectal cancer and subsequently died from it one day before the bureaucracy reconsidered her case and approved treatment.
Of course by then it was too late.
wyntre
When you read the statistics about executive and CEO salaries being 2500 x more per year than the average worker, that new biotech cancer drugs routinely cost $25,000 to $50,000 a year, with some running close to $100,000 and that the cost of cancer-fighting drugs went up 27 percent in 2006, compared with less than 2 percent for other drugs, it just maked the exploitation of other people's suffering extremely stark.
"One in 10 cancer patients is unable to cover basics such as food and housing, according to a survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation in Menlo Park, California; more disturbingly, 1 in 12 people with cancer has delayed or decided against treatment because it was too costly. A recent study from another research group showed the problem is worse for insured women than insured men, in part because they take more prescription drugs"
I'm sure the stats are similar with us heppers. We all know that of every 100 patients dx with hep only10 eventually get treatment.
Here are a few quotes from the article;
"Medicine is not like other commodities, and those who need it are not like other customers. They are often people desperate for a few more months of life—long enough, they hope, to be around for the treatment that turns out to be a cure. But where do companies draw the line between maintaining a profit that satisfies stockholders and gouging patients who'll pay anything to stay alive?" The answer—if there is an answer—is something pharmaceutical companies, patient groups and lawmakers are struggling to find. "
"On the other hand, it's not as though drug companies are struggling to turn a profit. As new biotechnology drugs hit the market, drugmakers are seeing profits and stocks soar, so much so that by 2010, analysts predict the worldwide market for cancer-fighting drugs will double to $50 billion a year. Even years after a medication's development, its price may continue to rise, especially if it is being repurposed for a new use. In 2005, after Genentech announced success in using the colorectal cancer drug Avastin to treat breast and lung cancer, the company also said these patients would need twice the dose — doubling the price tag to $100,000 per year."
"The debate has prompted drugmakers to acknowledge with surprising candor a final reason for the eye-popping price tags: These meds cost a lot because patients are willing to pay a lot for something that works so well. Genentech raised the price of Tarceva, a lung cancer pill, by 30 percent because "it was a more powerful and more active agent" than originally understood, and "so more valuable," an executive told The New York Times last year. "Unfortunately, health care in the United States is still seen as a commodity to be bought and sold," Meslin says. "So it's not surprising that companies will charge what they think the market will bear.”
Which returns us to the uncomfortable question."
"How much is a life worth?"
And I'll add who gets to decide whose life is more important, more valuable than anothers?
wyntre
"One in 10 cancer patients is unable to cover basics such as food and housing, according to a survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation in Menlo Park, California; more disturbingly, 1 in 12 people with cancer has delayed or decided against treatment because it was too costly. A recent study from another research group showed the problem is worse for insured women than insured men, in part because they take more prescription drugs"
I'm sure the stats are similar with us heppers. We all know that of every 100 patients dx with hep only10 eventually get treatment.
Here are a few quotes from the article;
"Medicine is not like other commodities, and those who need it are not like other customers. They are often people desperate for a few more months of life—long enough, they hope, to be around for the treatment that turns out to be a cure. But where do companies draw the line between maintaining a profit that satisfies stockholders and gouging patients who'll pay anything to stay alive?" The answer—if there is an answer—is something pharmaceutical companies, patient groups and lawmakers are struggling to find. "
"On the other hand, it's not as though drug companies are struggling to turn a profit. As new biotechnology drugs hit the market, drugmakers are seeing profits and stocks soar, so much so that by 2010, analysts predict the worldwide market for cancer-fighting drugs will double to $50 billion a year. Even years after a medication's development, its price may continue to rise, especially if it is being repurposed for a new use. In 2005, after Genentech announced success in using the colorectal cancer drug Avastin to treat breast and lung cancer, the company also said these patients would need twice the dose — doubling the price tag to $100,000 per year."
"The debate has prompted drugmakers to acknowledge with surprising candor a final reason for the eye-popping price tags: These meds cost a lot because patients are willing to pay a lot for something that works so well. Genentech raised the price of Tarceva, a lung cancer pill, by 30 percent because "it was a more powerful and more active agent" than originally understood, and "so more valuable," an executive told The New York Times last year. "Unfortunately, health care in the United States is still seen as a commodity to be bought and sold," Meslin says. "So it's not surprising that companies will charge what they think the market will bear.”
Which returns us to the uncomfortable question."
"How much is a life worth?"
And I'll add who gets to decide whose life is more important, more valuable than anothers?
wyntre
I know all the righties here will jump in with contrary arguments, but surely - if health care is a commodity like defense, education, highways and everything else that keeps us a meaningful nation - the government should be doing something about this. Somewhere between market capitalism and outright communism there must be an answer. The profit motive is a powerful incentive, but it's often abused. Pharm companies develop some fabulous products, but they also spend fortunes creating duplicate drugs, when one or four would fill everybody's need, and orphan diseases receive orphan treatment, shoved in a corner and ignored.
Nobody should lose their house from being sick. That's just plain wrong and ought to be against the law. Even when the pharmaceutical companies provide assistance, there are so many other expenses - including losing the ability to go out and work. I have several friends who were forced into retirement before social security age, and it's been very difficult for them. One of them had just finished paying off loans for graduate school.
Nobody should lose their house from being sick. That's just plain wrong and ought to be against the law. Even when the pharmaceutical companies provide assistance, there are so many other expenses - including losing the ability to go out and work. I have several friends who were forced into retirement before social security age, and it's been very difficult for them. One of them had just finished paying off loans for graduate school.
On the surface it seems too expensive and unfair, but on the other hand, the cost of developing new treatments is astronomical. I understand that enrolling each patient in a study costs typically costs around $50,000 per patient.
If the current treatments were not earning a good return, and the pharma companies were not earning great profits, there would be no new drugs in development / being commercialized.
I had a short period where my work insurance did not cover me - Roche provided assistance. If you truley can't pay the pharmaceutical companies themselves often help.
If the current treatments were not earning a good return, and the pharma companies were not earning great profits, there would be no new drugs in development / being commercialized.
I had a short period where my work insurance did not cover me - Roche provided assistance. If you truley can't pay the pharmaceutical companies themselves often help.
How are you? You disappeared!
I think it's absolutely obscene what TX costs. When I found out monthly meds, including peg, riba and neupogen run over 5G a month I felt nauseous.
I'm grateful, of course, that I have insurance but I can't help thinking about those who don't. And even with coverage, I still had to move to a much cheaper place coz i can't work on these meds and I therefore couldn't afford the mortgage, blahdeedahdahdah. Again, I'm lucky. Cramped in a teeny cottage with a flock of parrots but lucky to at least have a shot at recovering my health.
Are you post TX now?
wyntre
I think it's absolutely obscene what TX costs. When I found out monthly meds, including peg, riba and neupogen run over 5G a month I felt nauseous.
I'm grateful, of course, that I have insurance but I can't help thinking about those who don't. And even with coverage, I still had to move to a much cheaper place coz i can't work on these meds and I therefore couldn't afford the mortgage, blahdeedahdahdah. Again, I'm lucky. Cramped in a teeny cottage with a flock of parrots but lucky to at least have a shot at recovering my health.
Are you post TX now?
wyntre
I am so in tune with what you are saying about the cost of treatment. I happen to have insurance through my job. I lost it once however when I was out of work 1 year and a half. I had to togo to medicaid for help which requires you spend down any and all assets to approx $2000, This includes 401ks and 403bs. I was allowed one car and my house. I am back to work now and again have the group health insurance. I am very careful not to put any kind of asset or savings where it can be tracked. This is due to to my continuing fragile health.
I try to warn people of the dangers of putting savings and stocks in retirement funds and the like. Early withdrawal can cost stiff penalties but becoming ill due to a disease or just natual old age can cost you everything should you need help and either loose your private insurance or are too young for medicare. Dig a hole in the back yard. I will as soon as I save enough to put in it. LOL
I try to warn people of the dangers of putting savings and stocks in retirement funds and the like. Early withdrawal can cost stiff penalties but becoming ill due to a disease or just natual old age can cost you everything should you need help and either loose your private insurance or are too young for medicare. Dig a hole in the back yard. I will as soon as I save enough to put in it. LOL
I am so in tune with what you are saying about the cost of treatment. I happen to have insurance through my job. I lost it once however when I was out of work 1 year and a half. I had to togo to medicaid for help which requires you spend down any and all assets to approx $2000, This includes 401ks and 403bs. I was allowed one car and my house. I am back to work now and again have the group health insurance. I am very careful not to put any kind of asset or savings where it can be tracked. This is due to to my continuing fragile health.
I try to warn people of the dangers of putting savings and stocks in retirement funds and the like. Early withdrawal can cost stiff penalties but becoming ill due to a disease or just natual old age can cost you everything should you need help and either loose your private insurance or are too young for medicare. Dig a hole in the back yard. I will as soon as I save enough to put in it. LOL
I try to warn people of the dangers of putting savings and stocks in retirement funds and the like. Early withdrawal can cost stiff penalties but becoming ill due to a disease or just natual old age can cost you everything should you need help and either loose your private insurance or are too young for medicare. Dig a hole in the back yard. I will as soon as I save enough to put in it. LOL
I am so in tune with what you are saying about the cost of treatment. I happen to have insurance through my job. I lost it once however when I was out of work 1 year and a half. I had to togo to medicaid for help which requires you spend down any and all assets to approx $2000, This includes 401ks and 403bs. I was allowed one car and my house. I am back to work now and again have the group health insurance. I am very careful not to put any kind of asset or savings where it can be tracked. This is due to to my continuing fragile health.
I try to warn people of the dangers of putting savings and stocks in retirement funds and the like. Early withdrawal can cost stiff penalties but becoming ill due to a disease or just natual old age can cost you everything should you need help and either loose your private insurance or are too young for medicare. Dig a hole in the back yard. I will as soon as I save enough to put in it. LOL
I try to warn people of the dangers of putting savings and stocks in retirement funds and the like. Early withdrawal can cost stiff penalties but becoming ill due to a disease or just natual old age can cost you everything should you need help and either loose your private insurance or are too young for medicare. Dig a hole in the back yard. I will as soon as I save enough to put in it. LOL
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