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How much milk thistle, 1 drink on T-day? Happy holidays..............
I just read a post where someone said to take 900mg of milk thistle, divided up to three times a day. I've only been taking 350mg every 4 days or so. I don't have a Hep doctor, but 3 doctors at my methadone clinic who are very knowledgable about Hep (do to 90% of their clients having C) said to NOT take milk thistle daily, but to do it every few days. Why? Are they wrong? Is the smaller amount even helping?
Also, I take a home urine test that measures whether you have some, none of a lot of bilirubin in the urine. Mine comes back as none-little. Is that any indication of my liver's health?
Someone mentioned Fibrasure as being a new blood tests indicating liver condition. Any info on it?
I never drink & have rarely drank during my whole life. I still would like 1 drink on tukey day. Don't know my liver status or viral load or genotype. I know you guys are against drinking, but what about the occasional holiday/wedding drink?
BTW, I've been feeling great............all my symptoms that I mentioned when I 1st posted (tiredness, lack of motivation, depression) have subsided since I've gotten out of the damn house & got back to work. I'm a 28yr old female who does construction work, and I can only do a 4hr day these days, but still feeling better.
Any thoughts? Happy holidays!
Also, I take a home urine test that measures whether you have some, none of a lot of bilirubin in the urine. Mine comes back as none-little. Is that any indication of my liver's health?
Someone mentioned Fibrasure as being a new blood tests indicating liver condition. Any info on it?
I never drink & have rarely drank during my whole life. I still would like 1 drink on tukey day. Don't know my liver status or viral load or genotype. I know you guys are against drinking, but what about the occasional holiday/wedding drink?
BTW, I've been feeling great............all my symptoms that I mentioned when I 1st posted (tiredness, lack of motivation, depression) have subsided since I've gotten out of the damn house & got back to work. I'm a 28yr old female who does construction work, and I can only do a 4hr day these days, but still feeling better.
Any thoughts? Happy holidays!
Lieber CS, Leo MA, Cao Q, Ren C, DeCarli LM.
Silymarin retards the progression of alcohol-induced hepatic fibrosis in baboons.
J Clin Gastroenterol. 2003 Oct;37(4):336-9.
GOAL/BACKGROUND: Hepatoprotective effects of silymarin in patients with alcoholic liver disease are controversial. For strict control, this was assessed in non-human primates.
STUDY: Twelve baboons were fed alcohol with or without silymarin for 3 years with a nutritionally adequate diet.
RESULTS: Silymarin opposed the alcohol-induced oxidative stress (assessed by plasma 4-hydroxynonenal) and the rise in liver lipids and circulating ALT. Alcohol also increased hepatic collagen type I by 50% over the 3 years with a significant rise in mRNA for alpha1 (I) procollagen, both prevented by silymarin. There were corresponding morphologic changes: at 36 months, 2 of 6 animals fed alcohol had cirrhosis and 2 septal fibrosis, with perivenular fibrosis in 2, whereas with alcohol + silymarin, there was only 1 cirrhosis and 1 septal fibrosis, with perivenular fibrosis in 2, and virtually no lesions in the remaining 2.
CONCLUSIONS: Silymarin retards the development of alcohol-induced hepatic fibrosis in baboons, consistent with several positive clinical trials. The negative outcome observed in other trials possibly reflects poor compliance resulting in irregular or low silymarin intake. Thus, in view of the innocuity of silymarin, it might be advisable in future clinical studies to insure the controlled administration of sufficient amounts of silymarin.
Silymarin retards the progression of alcohol-induced hepatic fibrosis in baboons.
J Clin Gastroenterol. 2003 Oct;37(4):336-9.
GOAL/BACKGROUND: Hepatoprotective effects of silymarin in patients with alcoholic liver disease are controversial. For strict control, this was assessed in non-human primates.
STUDY: Twelve baboons were fed alcohol with or without silymarin for 3 years with a nutritionally adequate diet.
RESULTS: Silymarin opposed the alcohol-induced oxidative stress (assessed by plasma 4-hydroxynonenal) and the rise in liver lipids and circulating ALT. Alcohol also increased hepatic collagen type I by 50% over the 3 years with a significant rise in mRNA for alpha1 (I) procollagen, both prevented by silymarin. There were corresponding morphologic changes: at 36 months, 2 of 6 animals fed alcohol had cirrhosis and 2 septal fibrosis, with perivenular fibrosis in 2, whereas with alcohol + silymarin, there was only 1 cirrhosis and 1 septal fibrosis, with perivenular fibrosis in 2, and virtually no lesions in the remaining 2.
CONCLUSIONS: Silymarin retards the development of alcohol-induced hepatic fibrosis in baboons, consistent with several positive clinical trials. The negative outcome observed in other trials possibly reflects poor compliance resulting in irregular or low silymarin intake. Thus, in view of the innocuity of silymarin, it might be advisable in future clinical studies to insure the controlled administration of sufficient amounts of silymarin.
Susan
I have been taking Silybin Photosome for 2 years and read the WSU study along time ago. I cut my dose down to almost nothing once I started tx, but my liver panel became normal about 4 months after starting the high dose of IdB 1016.
TonyZ
I have been taking Silybin Photosome for 2 years and read the WSU study along time ago. I cut my dose down to almost nothing once I started tx, but my liver panel became normal about 4 months after starting the high dose of IdB 1016.
TonyZ
hey, phony, thought you left. what's your m.o. this week. one day real soon every one on this site will see through your transparency.
Milk Thistle-Silymarin for Hepatitis C
This is a clinical trial currently taking place at University of Washington Medical Center (UWMC) in Seattle, Washington, in collaboration with Bastyr University. The study is currently recruiting participants with hepatitis C who are previous non-responders to interferon-based therapies, or are poor candidates for currently available treatments or are unwilling to use these treatments. Funding comes from the National Institutes of Health. The principal investigator is Kris Kowdley MD, a hepatologist at UWMC.
IdB 1016, the study drug, is a pharmaceutical grade derivative from milk thistle. IdB 1016 has an extensive history of clinical use in Europe and previous clinical studies with hepatitis patients suggest it has beneficial effects on liver inflammation. Also, previous animal studies suggest that silybin, the active ingredient in IdB 1016, has anti-fibrotic effects on the liver when given in higher doses than clinically tested. Hence this study intends to test three dose levels of IdB 1016 to see whether higher doses than previously tested are safe and well tolerated. The study also intends to gather preliminary information on markers of liver inflammation and fibrosis to determine whether there is a potential increase in therapeutic benefits from higher doses.
The clinical trial lasts for approximately five months and requires participants to come to the UWMC clinic six times during that period. Other important prerequisites are two blood tests in the previous 12 months showing elevated levels of ALT (a liver enzyme), a viral load in the previous six months indicating detectable virus, a liver biopsy from the previous two years showing fibrosis (Stage II or III). For patients with Stage IV fibrosis, the biopsy can be from up to five years ago. Participants need to have stable liver disease and abstain from alcohol, smoking and recreational drugs during the study. Those with a history of alcohol or drug abuse are required to be in recovery for at least two years.
Contact Information:
Study Coordinator, Julie Bares or Project Manager, Jose Berger
Phone: 206-221-4138
This is a clinical trial currently taking place at University of Washington Medical Center (UWMC) in Seattle, Washington, in collaboration with Bastyr University. The study is currently recruiting participants with hepatitis C who are previous non-responders to interferon-based therapies, or are poor candidates for currently available treatments or are unwilling to use these treatments. Funding comes from the National Institutes of Health. The principal investigator is Kris Kowdley MD, a hepatologist at UWMC.
IdB 1016, the study drug, is a pharmaceutical grade derivative from milk thistle. IdB 1016 has an extensive history of clinical use in Europe and previous clinical studies with hepatitis patients suggest it has beneficial effects on liver inflammation. Also, previous animal studies suggest that silybin, the active ingredient in IdB 1016, has anti-fibrotic effects on the liver when given in higher doses than clinically tested. Hence this study intends to test three dose levels of IdB 1016 to see whether higher doses than previously tested are safe and well tolerated. The study also intends to gather preliminary information on markers of liver inflammation and fibrosis to determine whether there is a potential increase in therapeutic benefits from higher doses.
The clinical trial lasts for approximately five months and requires participants to come to the UWMC clinic six times during that period. Other important prerequisites are two blood tests in the previous 12 months showing elevated levels of ALT (a liver enzyme), a viral load in the previous six months indicating detectable virus, a liver biopsy from the previous two years showing fibrosis (Stage II or III). For patients with Stage IV fibrosis, the biopsy can be from up to five years ago. Participants need to have stable liver disease and abstain from alcohol, smoking and recreational drugs during the study. Those with a history of alcohol or drug abuse are required to be in recovery for at least two years.
Contact Information:
Study Coordinator, Julie Bares or Project Manager, Jose Berger
Phone: 206-221-4138
Susan, I hope you're having a wonderful day and that you had a beautiful Thanksgiving...I know I sure did!
I've posted the warning about milk thistle and tx several times here myself -- in fact, it was my first post in late June. Please know that mythoughts is not on treatment.
As for dosage, and this is an aside to Mythoughts, these MD's are not trained in herbalism, and are obviously not familiar w/ German
Kommision guidelines.
Personally, I think one drink once a year is fine, but that's just me. And I wouldn't take it without the protection of milk thistle.
As for dosage, and this is an aside to Mythoughts, these MD's are not trained in herbalism, and are obviously not familiar w/ German
Kommision guidelines.
Personally, I think one drink once a year is fine, but that's just me. And I wouldn't take it without the protection of milk thistle.
Well, I know that 'profylaxis' means treatment or prevention of a disease, so I'm wondering if you were being sarcastic about me having a drink on Thanksgiving. I haven't had a drink in a very long time & I'm just wondering if it's 'that' bad to have one every year or so.
Yeah, I've heard from a bunch of people that I should only take milk thistle every few days or so. Regarding the dosage, I take 350mg only b/c the kind I bought (before I knew anything about Hep) is only 150mg per horse sized pill. I guess I should get a new bottle of stronger ones.
Califia, did you ever check up on that place in SF?
Yeah, I've heard from a bunch of people that I should only take milk thistle every few days or so. Regarding the dosage, I take 350mg only b/c the kind I bought (before I knew anything about Hep) is only 150mg per horse sized pill. I guess I should get a new bottle of stronger ones.
Califia, did you ever check up on that place in SF?
ONLY YOUR DR CAN ANSWER THE ALCHOLOL QUESTION...NONE OF US OUR QUALIFIED...cut and paste below...
www.natap.org/2003/june/063003_6.htm
MILK THISTLE IS A RISK TOO,now i'm finding out...a year after taking it daily with tx and hcv...i shoulda listened to my dr!
A Warning about Milk Thistle and Drug Interactions
http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepC/mthistle.html
www.natap.org/2003/june/063003_6.htm
MILK THISTLE IS A RISK TOO,now i'm finding out...a year after taking it daily with tx and hcv...i shoulda listened to my dr!
A Warning about Milk Thistle and Drug Interactions
http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepC/mthistle.html
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