Is food organic or not?

[GrandOak]

While true organic food is often the safest, not all food labeled as such is truly organic.  My wife has worked for the USDA for many moons now (i.e. mentioning her years of service is almost as taboo as disclosing her age and results in another pan lump on the noggin ;-) and this labeling is something that they and the FDA have struggled for quire awhile.

While the "organic" label addresses how the farmer raised the product, it does not cover any by-product which may have been present in such things as food (for livestock), dirt supply (for crops), etc..  A clear example of this is the additives food in meat supplies of livestock which were feed food which actually raised non-organically.

Something to think about if one is that concerned about their food supply being totally natural.

[the Director]

Regarding organic.
What did we all loose with chemical fertilizers.
The use of these crude oil based food feeds is
the issue.   In the opinion of the Live Blood
Study what we lost was sulfur and Finland is
a good case study being that they banned CF's
ammonium nitrates and sulfates fearing the
cadmium they contained.  The general health
of Finland is now 10 time better than ours in
the US and their soils have 4% sulfur rather
than the 1% they had from the early 40s when
they began using these "improved" food feeds
of Farbin and the Germany marketing machine.
If you can not afford to eat organic then
include organic sulfur in your diet.
See periodic table of elements for interaction
of sulfur and oxygen the key to cellular
regeneration.

[Kalio1]

I was referring specifically to "organically grown" products.
In many coutries there are NO regulations in place for food safety. Check before you go is the best approach.

[EquineLori]

The only way to be certain our food is organic is to grow our own.  An organic gardener plants twice the vegetables needed for consumption and allows the bugs to have the second half.  As far as dairy goes, one must have their own cow.  Large dairies routinly inject cows with antibiotics to reduce the incidence of mastitis and they are also given growth hormones.  Traces of both are found in all dairy products.  The best cow feeds found at feed stores contain fish meal.  When was the last time you saw a cow fishing for her dinner?  Also, honey bees are the easiest creatures to 'keep'.  Honey found in grocery stores is processed, which destroys anthistamine qualities as well as some of it's antibiotic nature.  How ironic that with a broken back and hcv treatments, I too now shop in the grocery stores for our food.  BTW, England does believe in the organic processing of food stuffs.  England has smaller farms and dairies and is VERY organic concious.  Have you ever seen English cheddar cheese in the markets?  It's white.  Our cheeses, as well as many other food stuffs also contain food coloring to make it more appealing.  Organic butter is also white.  I could go on and on, but I won't.

[EquineLori]

Good grief!  I hadn't even considered cheating in large organic farms.  They should be shot!

[GoofyDad]

<i>Good grief! I hadn't even considered cheating in large organic farms. </i>

Maybe you should. There are great places to hide! On the otherhand, the straw and manure residue can be a dead giveaway.

<hr>

Here's an <a href="http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/food/organic-products-206/overview/index.htm">interesting set of articles</a>. (click through the menu top-left)

A <a href="http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/organic.html">word from a naysayer</a>.

And <a href="http://www.mofga.org/food.html"a counterpoint</a>.

[GoofyDad]

<a href="http://www.mofga.org/food.html">Fixed third link</a>

[Kalio1]

What state do you live in? To be certified organic and maintai that distinction in this state you must comply with the extremely stringent guidelines on your soil and you absolutely can not "mix" nonorganic product with organic product and YES you CAN tell the difference and discern between the two, inspectors are hip to those tricks let me tell you. Your friend would pay huge fines here for doing that and would lose his organic certification permanently. You are checked regularly with unannounced regulatory visits and if ANY violation arises with your soil which is tested, with your pest control methods or any aspect of your farming practice your certification is yanked. There is NO way you can get away with any of the things you mention. Certified organic is taken VERY seriously in this state with consequences and checks ad balances strictly adhered to.

[Myown]

Yes, I agree about best way being to grow your own. But I live in Jersey. Toxic waste dump...oops, I mean beautiful "Garden State."  By your screen name, you probably have lots of acres and good soil and probably would be able to grow. Plus I really don't have a green thumb. Some people can't grow things no matter how they try and I'm one of them.

The milk I buy says it doesn't give the cows hormones, antibiotics etc. I'm actually allergic to milk, I like drinking "rice dream", but then it adds to the difficulty I have in going to the bathroom.

Broken back? Sorry to hear that. Fell off horse?? I used to ride myself. Never much of a rider. My father was a professional horseman though. English stuff. I always wanted to ride western. The saddles are so much more comfortable and not having to post looked good to me. But, he was against us riding western. He was English all the way.

Have a nice day.

[52TELE]

Rocker , this is what I take daily , GNLD Formula IV food supplement and Matrix ,inc  Transmix mineral supplement. I was taking Centrum Silver and my dentist , who is a nutritionist , suggested I switch to the above. I also stopped using dairy products (for the most part , no milk at all) a couple of months ago after a discussion here on the forum.

I dont know if you are fimiliar with the products , but I would like to know what you think and if I could do better with another product. Here is the Formula IV url.

http://www.amazing-health-products.com/formulaIV.htm

Thanks

BTW , I wasn't taking anything at all prior to treatment and finding this forum. I told you I pay attention.(:

[timedog]

walked into a walmart once and got a headache as soon as I stepped through their doors and quickly left.

I do not agree with not buy food products grown outside of this country. You really think the controls we put on foods grown here really are to be trusted anymore then any place else in the world. Personally I don't really trust anything our corportaions and goverment says or does.

The best food I have ever eaten has been outside of this country  without a doubt. I don't know if the produce grown in brazil, italy, new zealand, france and so on is organic but it sure is damn good. Even mainland china at times was assume.

No macrobiotic eaters out there?

[mremeet]

I would imagine you can also get organic produce that may have higher levels of certain contaminants than a comparable non-organic product. For instance, if you were to grow plants in soil that was adjacent to an old major highway system, I've heard the levels of lead in the soil can be higher than it is in land further away from the highway (due to lead being added and used in gasoline for many years). Also, if you were to organically grow plants on old farmland that used to be heavily doused with pesticides (some of which were lead based as well) for years on end, you might also get higher levels of contamination than you might expect/assume. I work with a former farmer who used to know have a neighbor that would also mix his "normally" produced vegetables (i.e. grown with synthetic fertilizers and pesticides) in with his organic stock (which was grown separately). He said the profit margins were just too tempting, plus it was very easy to do without getting caught.

[timedog]

what countries might you be aware of?

[mremeet]

This didn't occur in the state I live in, it happened in Maine and this was quite a few years ago (my former farmer friend gave up farming in the 80's). But I've read/heard more current rumors it happens elsewhere too. Other than that, I'm certainly no expert on the differences in appearance between organic vs standard produce (other than organic sometimes looks a little less "glamorous" for obvious reasons), or the policing that's done to "guarantee" its organic status. But, I think it's important to remember that even if the farmer him/herself didn't swap the two, the produce often changes hands a time or two before finally being sold to the consumer. And in those situations, I don't see how the entire custodial path could be 100% absolutely guaranteed by govt bureaucrats. But if you say it's impossible to swap the two and never ever get away with it, wellllll....ok, you're the expert, not me.  ;-)

[timedog]

There are so many issue to be delt with here. It is not just about organic it is also about locally grown has anyone read about walmart starting to offer "organic". From the very little I have read this could kill the local farmer. Even Whole Foods is not great for  the local guys.

Two side bars but food related. I find I am hungry all the time not sure if this is treatment related or from my diabetes. The last thing I was expecting was to be hungry.

Has anyone here tried marcobiotic diet and if so what was your experince.

Lastly have been a bit down the last few weeks. Work is slow girlfriend is away on business daughter enjoying her last weeks of childhood before the start of college. The weather has been great but my garden is at the point that it doesn't need much from me and I have never been good at just sitting and relaxing but I don;t feel like starting any projects either.

oh well shot 23 tonight...something to look forward too.

[Kalio1]

I agree, organic "locally grown" is a good distiction to look for on the label.

There is no way I would have faith in an "organically grown" product from another country (where WaMart will have them produced) because there is no way to verify they are truly organic and should not be allowed that distinction in my view.  I have NEVER purchased one thing from WalMart and never will their impact on our country is devastating o many levels.

[Kalio1]

I am not sure I understand your question,are you asking what countries have I been to? I hesitate to answer as in the past whe I mentioned visiting a foreign country I was slammed and accused of "bragging"

The reason I know a little (very little) about food regulations and farming practices in foreign lands is my Father works for USAID and has travelled/worked in virtually every country on the globe, my information comes from him.

[GrandOak]

If I'm not mistaken, organic certification is now regulated by the federal government (i.e. FDA and USDA).  This is to maintain a consistent set of standards across all states because of the high degree of inter-state commerce with respect to the products being certified.

In the past each state set their own standards and each had differing standards. Product was being moved inter-state to be sold at a high price in one for being organic when it could not meet the labeling in the state where it was produced.  This was a time when it was discovered that even if a farmer was not treating his own product, it could contain trace elements which would make it non-organic because of side products being used (i.e. food, soil, etc.).

My wife has done alot of work in this area for the USDA in both regulation, certification, etc..

[timedog]

would be interested in know the goverments standards it seems like the govements idea of organic and the general populations is not the same. would you agree.

By the way enjoyed your post on what you have learned.

still no one bitting on my macrobiotic question?

[GrandOak]

I guess one would have to clarify what is the general populations perception of organic.  One can ask several people and get completely different, sometimes opposing, statements.

Also, I do not think many people realize how far from "natural" most things are these days.  Seeds have been irradiated to produce strains which are drought and bug resistance which maximize their yields.  Animals are treated with all sorts of shots and food additives to enhance their growth and/or output potential while extending their lives as much as possible.

If one is not adding anything, how can they insure that the soil they use or the food they feed is pure?  If one takes into consideration that for years atomic test explosions (both above and below ground) were performed, how can one insure that the air, water, etc. is clean? In short, how pure does one have to be to claim organic?

It seems these days the definition hinges upon knowledge.  In other words, did the producer have any knowledge that additives were present in the product they are promoting as being organic?

[Myown]

True...there's also difference in labeling the organic stuff.."certified organic", or just "organic" etc. Alot of the labels will mention what the livestock was fed, so that's good. Its all very time consuming to be reading labels of every item before it goes into the cart, but even then, who knows...pre-washed package lettuce,some e-coli found.Big story on news. Bad enough for healthy people to swallow that, no less people with hep, like us.

Spending the extra money, you do want the real deal for sure. I try to buy organic food that comes from California. Makes no sense to be buying things from countries where health codes are non existent. I know that they are supposed to be following American health codes and probably are, inspectors, regulators etc., but I rather have food from US. My body is  more used to our own U.S. germs.