Aa
KNOW THIS, is could be the treatment nobody wants to give you, that will save you
This in not quackery it could change your life, it's modern not alternative medicine.
I will try to keep it simple.
one thing that happens as we age is we begin to lose our ability to make growth hormone.
this hormone is produced in the pituitary and is ESSENTIAL to tissue repair which occurs mostly at night in 3rd and particularly 4th stage sleep.
the goal of treatment is not just to kill the virus but to see the liver repair itself.
FOR SOME REASON Hepatitis can stop the pituitary from functioning.
If this happens the disease progresses rapidly, and you feel far worse than your years with lots of odd ailments popping up.
The test you need to ask for is called an IGF-1.
It stands for Insulin Growth Factor 1.
this is an initial test, since Growth Hormone (GH) is almost impossible to measure (it is produced in such miute amounts for only minutes each day, and particularly each night.) but the IGF-1 is easy to measure, an inexpensive blood test, and it's level indicated if any GH had been prodiced in the last 24 hrs.
If you have trouble sleeping or dreaming it's quite possible you are low on this hormone.
If you have autoimmune stuff, or trouble healing or exaustion same thing. Thyroid, arthritis, vitilago, fibromyalgia, even MS, where the body attacks the nerve sheath, and many more things are directly related. the pituitary is the MASTER gland which tell the others what to do. It's like the General, the thyroid is the next in command and on down. Our pancreas, our sex glands, are all part of this glandular system. when one thing breaks, then everything begins to break down.
Children who produce no GH age in ten years to about age 80, with all the accompanying pain. this disease is called progeria.
However, aldult onset GH loss is called Pituitary Dwarfism.
for some reason HEP people are often low in it.
In our teens our IGF-1 number should be about 400, this is because we are growing rapidly.
By age 50-60 150-200 is in normal range, depending on the lab.
If you are low on this test, most insurances will allow for a further test, (expensive) to prove you aren't making enough or any GH. My number was 40. I'm in my mid-fifties, so this number should be seen at 90 years of age. This lowering of GH is considered a key in why we age and develop disease.
You have to go to a good endocrinologist to get this testing.
MY doctor insisted I couldn't have this, but I bypassed her for the initial testing, after 2 years of arguing, and sure enough....
the only draw back to this therapy, side effect wise, is it can mess with blood sugar, leading to diabetes. the idea is JUST to bring you up to normal, NOT turn you into Barry Bonds, or use it as a fountain of youth. It does have profound effects on the thyroid, mine is working agin for the first time in 30 years, and my fibromyalgia is gone.
there is a great deal of research now into whether this is a key to most autoimmune stuff, and Merck and others have come up with several oral secetouges (drugs that stimulate production of GH)
The trouble now is, it's expensive because the only REAL known treatment is the injection of the actual hormone, a 191 chain protein, very delicate, and the cost is 800-1200 per month. Naturally they don't want to test or inform us that this drug may be a key factor in healing, and the race is on with all the companies to see who can make the first inexpensive oral form of this hormone.
Bets are off as to the billions whoever wins this race will glean. But I put myself in a stage 3 trial just to get the oral until I could jump through all the insurance, waits for specialist and testing, and approval etc.
Before getting this drug, I couldn't go to sleep thinking I would wake up. Exaustion doesn't cover what I felt. Sometimes showering, dressing, and getting to the car felt like a marathon race the day after.
So, enough said. Do not expect docs to inform you of all this, but there is a plethora of stuff on pubmed which is how I found and diagnosed myself, looking the key to the fibromyalgia (before I discovered that I also had Hep C.)
I hope you all take this advice seriously. It's true, and I did my homework!!
PS, If you have ever had a head of neck injury from an auto accident you are also at greater risk of having this deficiency since whiplash can bruise or even shove this glands location, resulting in impaired function. I was never told of this either. Thank God for forums and Pubmed.
Take this seriously people. Even autoimmune attacks on the brain are part of this syndrome, I'm dealing with all of this, and don't want anyone else going undiagnosed.
PPS. I have 2 endocrinologists now, both willing to subscribe me growth hormone and the insurance pays, times are changing. they can only keep us in the dark so long, and now that I don't have to go to the library to read the New England Journal of Medicine, and Jama etc, it's just gotten a whole lot easier for us all!!
there are more doctors willing to fight to get you treatment if the insurance denies or balks.
there is also a program through Lilly Pharmaceutical now, to help fight the denials, they make the brand called Humatrope which I am on. Because of this, and my low number, I breezed through the normal "fight" some insurances give people.
Thank the Lord, and may this, my trial, PLEASE bless you all.
I will try to keep it simple.
one thing that happens as we age is we begin to lose our ability to make growth hormone.
this hormone is produced in the pituitary and is ESSENTIAL to tissue repair which occurs mostly at night in 3rd and particularly 4th stage sleep.
the goal of treatment is not just to kill the virus but to see the liver repair itself.
FOR SOME REASON Hepatitis can stop the pituitary from functioning.
If this happens the disease progresses rapidly, and you feel far worse than your years with lots of odd ailments popping up.
The test you need to ask for is called an IGF-1.
It stands for Insulin Growth Factor 1.
this is an initial test, since Growth Hormone (GH) is almost impossible to measure (it is produced in such miute amounts for only minutes each day, and particularly each night.) but the IGF-1 is easy to measure, an inexpensive blood test, and it's level indicated if any GH had been prodiced in the last 24 hrs.
If you have trouble sleeping or dreaming it's quite possible you are low on this hormone.
If you have autoimmune stuff, or trouble healing or exaustion same thing. Thyroid, arthritis, vitilago, fibromyalgia, even MS, where the body attacks the nerve sheath, and many more things are directly related. the pituitary is the MASTER gland which tell the others what to do. It's like the General, the thyroid is the next in command and on down. Our pancreas, our sex glands, are all part of this glandular system. when one thing breaks, then everything begins to break down.
Children who produce no GH age in ten years to about age 80, with all the accompanying pain. this disease is called progeria.
However, aldult onset GH loss is called Pituitary Dwarfism.
for some reason HEP people are often low in it.
In our teens our IGF-1 number should be about 400, this is because we are growing rapidly.
By age 50-60 150-200 is in normal range, depending on the lab.
If you are low on this test, most insurances will allow for a further test, (expensive) to prove you aren't making enough or any GH. My number was 40. I'm in my mid-fifties, so this number should be seen at 90 years of age. This lowering of GH is considered a key in why we age and develop disease.
You have to go to a good endocrinologist to get this testing.
MY doctor insisted I couldn't have this, but I bypassed her for the initial testing, after 2 years of arguing, and sure enough....
the only draw back to this therapy, side effect wise, is it can mess with blood sugar, leading to diabetes. the idea is JUST to bring you up to normal, NOT turn you into Barry Bonds, or use it as a fountain of youth. It does have profound effects on the thyroid, mine is working agin for the first time in 30 years, and my fibromyalgia is gone.
there is a great deal of research now into whether this is a key to most autoimmune stuff, and Merck and others have come up with several oral secetouges (drugs that stimulate production of GH)
The trouble now is, it's expensive because the only REAL known treatment is the injection of the actual hormone, a 191 chain protein, very delicate, and the cost is 800-1200 per month. Naturally they don't want to test or inform us that this drug may be a key factor in healing, and the race is on with all the companies to see who can make the first inexpensive oral form of this hormone.
Bets are off as to the billions whoever wins this race will glean. But I put myself in a stage 3 trial just to get the oral until I could jump through all the insurance, waits for specialist and testing, and approval etc.
Before getting this drug, I couldn't go to sleep thinking I would wake up. Exaustion doesn't cover what I felt. Sometimes showering, dressing, and getting to the car felt like a marathon race the day after.
So, enough said. Do not expect docs to inform you of all this, but there is a plethora of stuff on pubmed which is how I found and diagnosed myself, looking the key to the fibromyalgia (before I discovered that I also had Hep C.)
I hope you all take this advice seriously. It's true, and I did my homework!!
PS, If you have ever had a head of neck injury from an auto accident you are also at greater risk of having this deficiency since whiplash can bruise or even shove this glands location, resulting in impaired function. I was never told of this either. Thank God for forums and Pubmed.
Take this seriously people. Even autoimmune attacks on the brain are part of this syndrome, I'm dealing with all of this, and don't want anyone else going undiagnosed.
PPS. I have 2 endocrinologists now, both willing to subscribe me growth hormone and the insurance pays, times are changing. they can only keep us in the dark so long, and now that I don't have to go to the library to read the New England Journal of Medicine, and Jama etc, it's just gotten a whole lot easier for us all!!
there are more doctors willing to fight to get you treatment if the insurance denies or balks.
there is also a program through Lilly Pharmaceutical now, to help fight the denials, they make the brand called Humatrope which I am on. Because of this, and my low number, I breezed through the normal "fight" some insurances give people.
Thank the Lord, and may this, my trial, PLEASE bless you all.
Welcome to the forum.
This thread is 4 years old. I don't think merrybe is still posting.
This thread is 4 years old. I don't think merrybe is still posting.
yes it can be perplexing. I had type 2 prediebetes, abd the HGH and the IB+NF have not effected it. In fact my blood sugars are better than ever before.
I think the main concern is when young people treat or athletes overtreat. Obviously anything that stimulated the IGF Insulin Growth Factor should in theory help the metabolism of said sugars since it is the bodies inability to produce insulin that create type 1 and resistance to insulin that creates type 2 diebetes.
The wild card is always going to be the interferon in my mind since we know it tweaks into a much higher gear the immune system, it can also trigger autoimmune responses.
This however is not something one can avoid entirely in life regardless. I know of one gal who was covered with psorihasis after getting strep throat, and another who had a rash for four years after toughing t christmas tree. (me).
So at any time, and number of foods or medications or matural substances can trigger an autoimmune response that will effect, skin, joints, organs or whatever.
However I don't think we can live in constant fear of what might happen. Eventhough it's true there are some serious sides that can develop, and some in here still live with them today, the vast majority make it through treatment without any long term sides.
That of course can change as we age, and the older, and the less our other glands are working does effect it all.
My instinct tell me the triggers for autoimmune diebetes are caused more by other factors than just the chemo therapies. For instance with type 1 we know that the isles of Langerhorn are destroyed in the absence of adequate amounts of vitamin A&D. These lipids help protect many areas of the body from degererative and infectious conditions especially the eyes ears nose throat and pancreas all benefit from an adequate supply.
mb
I think the main concern is when young people treat or athletes overtreat. Obviously anything that stimulated the IGF Insulin Growth Factor should in theory help the metabolism of said sugars since it is the bodies inability to produce insulin that create type 1 and resistance to insulin that creates type 2 diebetes.
The wild card is always going to be the interferon in my mind since we know it tweaks into a much higher gear the immune system, it can also trigger autoimmune responses.
This however is not something one can avoid entirely in life regardless. I know of one gal who was covered with psorihasis after getting strep throat, and another who had a rash for four years after toughing t christmas tree. (me).
So at any time, and number of foods or medications or matural substances can trigger an autoimmune response that will effect, skin, joints, organs or whatever.
However I don't think we can live in constant fear of what might happen. Eventhough it's true there are some serious sides that can develop, and some in here still live with them today, the vast majority make it through treatment without any long term sides.
That of course can change as we age, and the older, and the less our other glands are working does effect it all.
My instinct tell me the triggers for autoimmune diebetes are caused more by other factors than just the chemo therapies. For instance with type 1 we know that the isles of Langerhorn are destroyed in the absence of adequate amounts of vitamin A&D. These lipids help protect many areas of the body from degererative and infectious conditions especially the eyes ears nose throat and pancreas all benefit from an adequate supply.
mb
Thanks for posting this. I see this is an old thread, very interesting one too lol
all of the things you mentioned in the first posy about the RA, Fibro, insomnia, neck and back injuries from an accident. I to find just getting out of my jammies and in the shower many days a tough chore. I am not even on tx yet, and I live this everyday already........This is why I fear the tx at all for me! I am going to my Dr next week due to being hospitalized beginning of this week. I will ask her to order this blood test. I am curious to see what mine is. If you said yours was of a 90 yr old!! WOW!! Im happy that there are some of you that take the time out to do these researches. I do NOT have the patience to sit here and do that! My mind has been on overload for a while now. And now I have yet another diagnosis that landed me in the hospital 3 days before Christmas. My concentration level in 0. So I am grateful to find these researches in here. Thank You
Jenn
all of the things you mentioned in the first posy about the RA, Fibro, insomnia, neck and back injuries from an accident. I to find just getting out of my jammies and in the shower many days a tough chore. I am not even on tx yet, and I live this everyday already........This is why I fear the tx at all for me! I am going to my Dr next week due to being hospitalized beginning of this week. I will ask her to order this blood test. I am curious to see what mine is. If you said yours was of a 90 yr old!! WOW!! Im happy that there are some of you that take the time out to do these researches. I do NOT have the patience to sit here and do that! My mind has been on overload for a while now. And now I have yet another diagnosis that landed me in the hospital 3 days before Christmas. My concentration level in 0. So I am grateful to find these researches in here. Thank You
Jenn
Wow
Thanks for the posts. This is interesting reading. I can;t make heads or tails of it. Seems like the Jury is split about 50/50. I am somewhat perplexed about the diabetes. All that is known for sure is there is a high rate of diabetes associated with hep-c. I wonder if natural higher IF-1 in people with hep-c has anything to do with bloodsugar levels?
Ron
Thanks for the posts. This is interesting reading. I can;t make heads or tails of it. Seems like the Jury is split about 50/50. I am somewhat perplexed about the diabetes. All that is known for sure is there is a high rate of diabetes associated with hep-c. I wonder if natural higher IF-1 in people with hep-c has anything to do with bloodsugar levels?
Ron
Just curious if anyone has had any luck with their docs yet regarding this tx.
read something a while back suggesting IF-1 returned to almost normal levels in some successful HCV treaters. That's the good news,
the bad news is that confirms my theory that the HCV is effecting the entire endocrine system, including the pancreas and may be therefore be responsible for much of the diebetes not to mention the HCC, thyroid disease and host of other diseases. It the domino effect.
So has anyone gotten their Endo to get on board yet??
DD, sfgirl, Meki?????
mb
read something a while back suggesting IF-1 returned to almost normal levels in some successful HCV treaters. That's the good news,
the bad news is that confirms my theory that the HCV is effecting the entire endocrine system, including the pancreas and may be therefore be responsible for much of the diebetes not to mention the HCC, thyroid disease and host of other diseases. It the domino effect.
So has anyone gotten their Endo to get on board yet??
DD, sfgirl, Meki?????
mb
no offense, but these kind of studies offend me.
>>>>9 people...4 alcoholics and kids with CLD (un deaths door basically)
and from this they conclude this hormone is evil.
first of all any double blind with under ten people is suspect..
standard protocol is 100 people.
second, lipod prqfiles and insulin resisyance are all going to be way different in alcoholics or 5 children with CJD (totally shot livers) than the average populace. Obviously the liver acts differently if it totally cirrotic or if someone keeps guzzling paint thinner.
Don't know about anyone else but this proves nada as far as what an average person taking care of themselves might expect to happen.
Honestly reddawg, you have to see the flaws in that study...., I'm surprised you aren't spending time trying to talk people who need procrit out it it......after all it's another one of those pesty enginneered protein human hormones that stimulates the marrow to make blood.
In these cases, 9 only...of the toughest known...and no measurable improvement...what did you expect...in the presence of alcohol insulin resistance always goes higher as the liver tries to detox the aceylene etc...sugar remain high.....CLD kids can't metabolize at all...once chirrosis is rock hard no one hormone is going to solve or reverse everything because the ability of HGH to work and begin a reversal of damage is based on the premise that there is some healthy tissue there to begin with.
You would not expect a thyroid to work again is it had been totally irradiated....well a liver turned entirely to solid scar tissue cannot either. The study does not even indicate what stage these kids were at....again, a study is only a good as the people running it....
so a boozer will not be helped....well now we know....
but wait..we already knew that right? The alcohol will chew you up with this virus no matter what else you do....so what is new in those observations beats me.
>>>>9 people...4 alcoholics and kids with CLD (un deaths door basically)
and from this they conclude this hormone is evil.
first of all any double blind with under ten people is suspect..
standard protocol is 100 people.
second, lipod prqfiles and insulin resisyance are all going to be way different in alcoholics or 5 children with CJD (totally shot livers) than the average populace. Obviously the liver acts differently if it totally cirrotic or if someone keeps guzzling paint thinner.
Don't know about anyone else but this proves nada as far as what an average person taking care of themselves might expect to happen.
Honestly reddawg, you have to see the flaws in that study...., I'm surprised you aren't spending time trying to talk people who need procrit out it it......after all it's another one of those pesty enginneered protein human hormones that stimulates the marrow to make blood.
In these cases, 9 only...of the toughest known...and no measurable improvement...what did you expect...in the presence of alcohol insulin resistance always goes higher as the liver tries to detox the aceylene etc...sugar remain high.....CLD kids can't metabolize at all...once chirrosis is rock hard no one hormone is going to solve or reverse everything because the ability of HGH to work and begin a reversal of damage is based on the premise that there is some healthy tissue there to begin with.
You would not expect a thyroid to work again is it had been totally irradiated....well a liver turned entirely to solid scar tissue cannot either. The study does not even indicate what stage these kids were at....again, a study is only a good as the people running it....
so a boozer will not be helped....well now we know....
but wait..we already knew that right? The alcohol will chew you up with this virus no matter what else you do....so what is new in those observations beats me.
sorry I never noticed your question or saw an alert..
your IGF-1 is age dependant, the younger you are the higher it should be
you must be in your middle age, for your norm to be that number..
as stated the 150-190 is for those in their fifties, as most HCV er's in here are....I said that a couple times, but they were long posts.
sorry for the delays response
your IGF-1 is age dependant, the younger you are the higher it should be
you must be in your middle age, for your norm to be that number..
as stated the 150-190 is for those in their fifties, as most HCV er's in here are....I said that a couple times, but they were long posts.
sorry for the delays response
Plöckinger U, Krüger D, Bergk A, Weich V, Wiedenmann B, Berg T.
Interdisziplinäres Stoffwechsel-Centrum, Charité-Universitätsmedizin Berlin, Campus Virchow-Klinikum, Berlin, Germany.
OBJECTIVES: In vitro and in vivo data indicate multiple, but contradictory effects of interferon on pituitary hormone secretion. We therefore investigated prospectively basal and stimulated pituitary hormone secretion in 21 patients with chronic hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection before and during antiviral therapy. METHODS: Twenty-one patients received pegylated interferon-alpha plus either ribavirin or levovirin. Baseline and stimulated growth hormone (GH), cortisol, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), prolactin (PRL), and thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) responses were measured using standard pituitary function tests, before therapy in all and during therapy in 17 out of the 21 patients. RESULTS: Before therapy 17 patients (81%) had severe GH insufficiency and 9 of these had low insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) concentrations. Basal and stimulated GH concentrations increased significantly during therapy, reducing the number of patients with severe GH insufficiency to four, but IGF-1 remained low. Basal PRL and TSH concentrations were normal before and during therapy, while thyroid-releasing hormone (TRH)-stimulated concentrations increased significantly during therapy. The adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH)/cortisol axis, basal and stimulated gonadotropin, and testosterone concentrations were normal throughout. Neither the HCV RNA level nor transaminases correlated with hormone concentrations before or during therapy. CONCLUSIONS: GH insufficiency is common in patients with chronic HCV infection. While GH secretion improves during antiviral therapy, IGF-1 remains low, indicating persistent GH resistance of hepatocytes. Whether improvement in GH secretion during treatment is due to a direct drug effect or related to the suppression of viral load could not be differentiated, as most patients demonstrated a positive virologic response.
Interdisziplinäres Stoffwechsel-Centrum, Charité-Universitätsmedizin Berlin, Campus Virchow-Klinikum, Berlin, Germany.
OBJECTIVES: In vitro and in vivo data indicate multiple, but contradictory effects of interferon on pituitary hormone secretion. We therefore investigated prospectively basal and stimulated pituitary hormone secretion in 21 patients with chronic hepatitis C virus (HCV) infection before and during antiviral therapy. METHODS: Twenty-one patients received pegylated interferon-alpha plus either ribavirin or levovirin. Baseline and stimulated growth hormone (GH), cortisol, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), prolactin (PRL), and thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) responses were measured using standard pituitary function tests, before therapy in all and during therapy in 17 out of the 21 patients. RESULTS: Before therapy 17 patients (81%) had severe GH insufficiency and 9 of these had low insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) concentrations. Basal and stimulated GH concentrations increased significantly during therapy, reducing the number of patients with severe GH insufficiency to four, but IGF-1 remained low. Basal PRL and TSH concentrations were normal before and during therapy, while thyroid-releasing hormone (TRH)-stimulated concentrations increased significantly during therapy. The adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH)/cortisol axis, basal and stimulated gonadotropin, and testosterone concentrations were normal throughout. Neither the HCV RNA level nor transaminases correlated with hormone concentrations before or during therapy. CONCLUSIONS: GH insufficiency is common in patients with chronic HCV infection. While GH secretion improves during antiviral therapy, IGF-1 remains low, indicating persistent GH resistance of hepatocytes. Whether improvement in GH secretion during treatment is due to a direct drug effect or related to the suppression of viral load could not be differentiated, as most patients demonstrated a positive virologic response.
thanks.....I just got another "oh really" from a doctor whom I told HCV may have caused my pituitary to shut down.
there is not general knowledge of this connection even though the research is clear.
If you stop to think about it when do you most need to repair your liver is when this virus is attacking it....so having the virus also effect the gland that commands repairs be done is a double whammy.
there is not general knowledge of this connection even though the research is clear.
If you stop to think about it when do you most need to repair your liver is when this virus is attacking it....so having the virus also effect the gland that commands repairs be done is a double whammy.
I am reading this in cross correlation with my issues going on Post TX - and possibly Interferon based reaction.
I'm trying to glean as much information re the symptoms as possible prior to going in.
I HATE when the doctors don't know ANYTHING about what is going on --- and the second thing I hate is knowing more than the doctor about what is going on...
And even worse - I hate a doctor who doesn't know anything yet proceeds to tell me what to do.
I think doctors have forgotten that THESE ARE OUR BODIES...
We live in them
We know what is going on --- LOL!
OK - maybe some of us do... ROFLMAO!
Anyhow --- I wanted to say that this is quite an interesting discussion --- and I very much thank you all for participating...
Reddawg's questioning prompted some decent responses... And Merrybe - the work you have done on research is quite nice.
Meki
I'm trying to glean as much information re the symptoms as possible prior to going in.
I HATE when the doctors don't know ANYTHING about what is going on --- and the second thing I hate is knowing more than the doctor about what is going on...
And even worse - I hate a doctor who doesn't know anything yet proceeds to tell me what to do.
I think doctors have forgotten that THESE ARE OUR BODIES...
We live in them
We know what is going on --- LOL!
OK - maybe some of us do... ROFLMAO!
Anyhow --- I wanted to say that this is quite an interesting discussion --- and I very much thank you all for participating...
Reddawg's questioning prompted some decent responses... And Merrybe - the work you have done on research is quite nice.
Meki
I have my IGF1 results back.
I'm 36 years old and have tested positive for HepC for 15 years, my own estimate of when I was infected puts it at 21 years.
I came in with an IGF1 of 94.
You posted that at 50-60yrs 150-200 is in normal range, depending on the lab. This lab had a suggested range for me of 199-424.
Seems a bit wide open to me, still the test results are low. It remains to be seen whether they'll see it as low enough to bother treating. There are several other things plaguing me at the moment. My GP has made an appointment for me to discuss all these things with someone more in the know than him, then they'll decide who to send me to and what to do with me.
I'd very much appreciate some advice as to what questions I need to be asking. There are other signs that could point to pituitary malfunction, problems processing lipids, high white blood cell count and seemingly complete immunity breakdown. My appointment won't come through for about 3 weeks, (we've got junior Doctor's strikes at the moment) so no rush on the reply. My health is at a point where I need to push forward, being properly prepared means avoiding repeat appointments and possibly also unnecessary treatments. Thanks in advance. Sev.
I'm 36 years old and have tested positive for HepC for 15 years, my own estimate of when I was infected puts it at 21 years.
I came in with an IGF1 of 94.
You posted that at 50-60yrs 150-200 is in normal range, depending on the lab. This lab had a suggested range for me of 199-424.
Seems a bit wide open to me, still the test results are low. It remains to be seen whether they'll see it as low enough to bother treating. There are several other things plaguing me at the moment. My GP has made an appointment for me to discuss all these things with someone more in the know than him, then they'll decide who to send me to and what to do with me.
I'd very much appreciate some advice as to what questions I need to be asking. There are other signs that could point to pituitary malfunction, problems processing lipids, high white blood cell count and seemingly complete immunity breakdown. My appointment won't come through for about 3 weeks, (we've got junior Doctor's strikes at the moment) so no rush on the reply. My health is at a point where I need to push forward, being properly prepared means avoiding repeat appointments and possibly also unnecessary treatments. Thanks in advance. Sev.
sorry for delayed answers this week....we've had a death in the family.
Sorry if you thought I was suggesting this instead of SOC...I'm NOT.....only suggesting that an as adjunct and aide in the disease recovery process.
I am currently on standard tx....6 months now. UND as of last week....blood work holding steady, no crashing, although 1200/180 is taking it's toll.
As I said, your study above, and the ones I found really didn't prove any substantial risk but did have more benefit potentials cheifly in metabolics and rates of repair to damaged tissues.
The insulin resistance is the one draw back, but the same can be said of Interfron which can also cause changes in either direction to insulin metabolism.
Obviously if someone wants to use this therapy for it's benefit, they need to weigh the risks and be willing to alter their life style in ways that will compensate for any adverse effects. The heart patient cuts out meats and fats...the liver patient alcohol etc.....the HGH therapy required a no sugar/complex carbs only diet stucture to stay on the safe side of the equations.
Otherwise one might be treating one disease only to cause another, which would be foolish.
Also taking more than recommended therapeutic dose is harmful, one doesn't want ones feet, bones, and cartilage to start growing like they did in youth. To take more than a medicinally recommended and monitored amount would do harm, some not reversible.
Sorry if you thought I was suggesting this instead of SOC...I'm NOT.....only suggesting that an as adjunct and aide in the disease recovery process.
I am currently on standard tx....6 months now. UND as of last week....blood work holding steady, no crashing, although 1200/180 is taking it's toll.
As I said, your study above, and the ones I found really didn't prove any substantial risk but did have more benefit potentials cheifly in metabolics and rates of repair to damaged tissues.
The insulin resistance is the one draw back, but the same can be said of Interfron which can also cause changes in either direction to insulin metabolism.
Obviously if someone wants to use this therapy for it's benefit, they need to weigh the risks and be willing to alter their life style in ways that will compensate for any adverse effects. The heart patient cuts out meats and fats...the liver patient alcohol etc.....the HGH therapy required a no sugar/complex carbs only diet stucture to stay on the safe side of the equations.
Otherwise one might be treating one disease only to cause another, which would be foolish.
Also taking more than recommended therapeutic dose is harmful, one doesn't want ones feet, bones, and cartilage to start growing like they did in youth. To take more than a medicinally recommended and monitored amount would do harm, some not reversible.
I didn't see anywhere, whether or not you have tried the standard treatment? They seem to be getting better results than when I was diagnosed in 1989.
I saw some positive results also. I guess that you assumed that I am looking just for the
negative.
You have to go to the referenced sites to get a better idea of what the results mean and the scope of this research. I would have had many pages of information if posted complete scope and I don't know how just by this post, one could decide one way or another to trying this treatment..
A good diet goes just so far to correct blood/sugar.
HCV is Chronic Liver Disease, as can be hepA,B,C,D,E; Hemachromatosis. et al.
"Clinical side effects
included worsening edema and ascites. Hepatocellular function did not change.
Therefore, rhGH treatment in CLD: 1) overcame hepatic GH resistance; 2) may have
improved whole-body protein catabolism; 3) increased lipolysis and lipid
oxidation; 4) increased insulin resistance; and 5) had potent antinatriuretic
effects. Long-term safety and efficacy require further assessment."
If the above paragraph from the study give you pause, I don't know what would.
Why not go to the sites and read the abstracts, scope and results, to get a better understanding.
negative.
You have to go to the referenced sites to get a better idea of what the results mean and the scope of this research. I would have had many pages of information if posted complete scope and I don't know how just by this post, one could decide one way or another to trying this treatment..
A good diet goes just so far to correct blood/sugar.
HCV is Chronic Liver Disease, as can be hepA,B,C,D,E; Hemachromatosis. et al.
"Clinical side effects
included worsening edema and ascites. Hepatocellular function did not change.
Therefore, rhGH treatment in CLD: 1) overcame hepatic GH resistance; 2) may have
improved whole-body protein catabolism; 3) increased lipolysis and lipid
oxidation; 4) increased insulin resistance; and 5) had potent antinatriuretic
effects. Long-term safety and efficacy require further assessment."
If the above paragraph from the study give you pause, I don't know what would.
Why not go to the sites and read the abstracts, scope and results, to get a better understanding.
The study really does not demonstrate much that would discourage someone from trying the GH therapy, and indeed lists several positice consequences. I would think that proper diet might help control increases in glucose and insulin resistance to some extent.
They also did not include many/any HCV infected patients with liver disease. This might be helpful to proper evaluation of the therapy. Also, a larger study might help as well. Did they indicate WHY they were testing the GH therapy on this subset of patients to begin with? What were they hoping to accomplish with the therapy?
DoubleDose
They also did not include many/any HCV infected patients with liver disease. This might be helpful to proper evaluation of the therapy. Also, a larger study might help as well. Did they indicate WHY they were testing the GH therapy on this subset of patients to begin with? What were they hoping to accomplish with the therapy?
DoubleDose
I spend most of my time researching. Usually on Medically sound studies and tested drugs. I did find this:
GH treatment in adults with chronic liver disease: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study.
eMedicine The Medscape Journal
MedscapeLatestNewsCMEConferencesResource CentersJournals & ReferenceExperts &
Viewpoints Newsletters | My Homepage
All Sources Medscape eMedicine MEDLINE Drug Reference
GH treatment in adults with chronic liver disease: a randomized, double-blind,
placebo-controlled, cross-over study.
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Key journal articles ranked for newsworthiness and clinical relevance in each
specialty, linked to Medline abstracts.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2002; 87(6):2751-9 (ISSN: 0021-972X)
Wallace JD; Abbott-Johnson WJ; Crawford DH; Barnard R; Potter JM; Cuneo RC
Metabolic Research Unit, Department of Medicine, University of Queensland,
Princess Alexandra Hospital, Wooloongabba, Brisbane 4102, Australia.
***@****
Patients with chronic liver disease (CLD) are catabolic and GH-resistant. The
effects of supraphysiological recombinant human GH (rhGH; 0.2 IU.kg(-1).d(-1))
treatment in adults with CLD were assessed in a randomized, double-blind,
placebo-controlled cross-over trial (4-wk dietary run-in, 4-wk treatment, and
2-wk wash-out phases). Nine adults with mild- to moderate-severity CLD
participated (median age, 49 yr; three males and six females; Child's
classification A in six and B in three). Biopsy-proven etiologies were: alcohol
(four patients), primary biliary cirrhosis (three patients), non-A, non-B, non-C
hepatitis (one patient), and cryptogenic (one patient). Treatment with rhGH
increased serum IGF-I (median increase over placebo, +93 microg.liter(-1); P =
0.004), IGF-binding protein-3 (+0.9 mg.liter(-1): P = 0.004), and acid labile
subunit (+10.7 nM; P = 0.004). Total body potassium (+8.0 g; P = 0.023), body
weight (+1.6 kg; P = 0.008), and total body water (by bioelectrical impedance;
+4.9 kg; P = 0.004) increased. Resting metabolic rate (+313 ml.kg(-1).min(-1); P
= 0.004) and lipid oxidation (+1072.0 kcal.d(-1); P = 0.032) increased.
Metabolic changes included increased fasting plasma glucose (+1.2 mM; P =
0.008), insulin (+33.8 mU.liter(-1); P = 0.004), C-peptide (+0.7 nM; P = 0.004),
and free-fatty acids (+0.1 mEq.liter(-1); P = 0.04). Clinical side effects
included worsening edema and ascites. Hepatocellular function did not change.
Therefore, rhGH treatment in CLD: 1) overcame hepatic GH resistance; 2) may have
improved whole-body protein catabolism; 3) increased lipolysis and lipid
oxidation; 4) increased insulin resistance; and 5) had potent antinatriuretic
effects. Long-term safety and efficacy require further assessment.
Subject Headings
Major Subject Heading(s)Minor Subject Heading(s)CAS Registry / EC Numbers
Blood [metabolism]
Carrier Proteins [blood]
Chronic Disease
Cross-Over Studies
Double-Blind Method
Female
Glycoproteins [blood]
Human Growth Hormone [adverse effects] [therapeutic use]
Humans
Insulin-Like Growth Factor Binding Protein 3 [blood]
Insulin-Like Growth Factor I [metabolism]
Liver Diseases [blood] [drug therapy]
Male
Middle Aged
Placebos
Recombinant Proteins [adverse effects] [therapeutic use]
0 (Carrier Proteins)
0 (Glycoproteins)
0 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor Binding Protein 3)
0 (Placebos)
0 (Recombinant Proteins)
0 (insulin-like growth factor binding protein, acid labile subunit)
12629-01-5 (Human Growth Hormone)
67763-96-6 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor I)
PreMedline Identifier: 12050245
All Sources Medscape eMedicine MEDLINE Drug Reference
• About Medscape • Privacy & Ethics • Terms of Use • WebMD Health• WebMD
Corporate • Help
All material on this website is protected by copyright, Copyright © 1994-2008 by
Medscape. This website also contains material copyrighted by 3rd parties.
GH treatment in adults with chronic liver disease: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study.
eMedicine The Medscape Journal
MedscapeLatestNewsCMEConferencesResource CentersJournals & ReferenceExperts &
Viewpoints Newsletters | My Homepage
All Sources Medscape eMedicine MEDLINE Drug Reference
GH treatment in adults with chronic liver disease: a randomized, double-blind,
placebo-controlled, cross-over study.
Information from Industry
Assess clinically focused product information on Medscape.
Click Here for Product Infosites -- Information from Industry.
Medscape Newsletters
Sign Up To Receive
Medscape Best Evidence
Key journal articles ranked for newsworthiness and clinical relevance in each
specialty, linked to Medline abstracts.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2002; 87(6):2751-9 (ISSN: 0021-972X)
Wallace JD; Abbott-Johnson WJ; Crawford DH; Barnard R; Potter JM; Cuneo RC
Metabolic Research Unit, Department of Medicine, University of Queensland,
Princess Alexandra Hospital, Wooloongabba, Brisbane 4102, Australia.
***@****
Patients with chronic liver disease (CLD) are catabolic and GH-resistant. The
effects of supraphysiological recombinant human GH (rhGH; 0.2 IU.kg(-1).d(-1))
treatment in adults with CLD were assessed in a randomized, double-blind,
placebo-controlled cross-over trial (4-wk dietary run-in, 4-wk treatment, and
2-wk wash-out phases). Nine adults with mild- to moderate-severity CLD
participated (median age, 49 yr; three males and six females; Child's
classification A in six and B in three). Biopsy-proven etiologies were: alcohol
(four patients), primary biliary cirrhosis (three patients), non-A, non-B, non-C
hepatitis (one patient), and cryptogenic (one patient). Treatment with rhGH
increased serum IGF-I (median increase over placebo, +93 microg.liter(-1); P =
0.004), IGF-binding protein-3 (+0.9 mg.liter(-1): P = 0.004), and acid labile
subunit (+10.7 nM; P = 0.004). Total body potassium (+8.0 g; P = 0.023), body
weight (+1.6 kg; P = 0.008), and total body water (by bioelectrical impedance;
+4.9 kg; P = 0.004) increased. Resting metabolic rate (+313 ml.kg(-1).min(-1); P
= 0.004) and lipid oxidation (+1072.0 kcal.d(-1); P = 0.032) increased.
Metabolic changes included increased fasting plasma glucose (+1.2 mM; P =
0.008), insulin (+33.8 mU.liter(-1); P = 0.004), C-peptide (+0.7 nM; P = 0.004),
and free-fatty acids (+0.1 mEq.liter(-1); P = 0.04). Clinical side effects
included worsening edema and ascites. Hepatocellular function did not change.
Therefore, rhGH treatment in CLD: 1) overcame hepatic GH resistance; 2) may have
improved whole-body protein catabolism; 3) increased lipolysis and lipid
oxidation; 4) increased insulin resistance; and 5) had potent antinatriuretic
effects. Long-term safety and efficacy require further assessment.
Subject Headings
Major Subject Heading(s)Minor Subject Heading(s)CAS Registry / EC Numbers
Blood [metabolism]
Carrier Proteins [blood]
Chronic Disease
Cross-Over Studies
Double-Blind Method
Female
Glycoproteins [blood]
Human Growth Hormone [adverse effects] [therapeutic use]
Humans
Insulin-Like Growth Factor Binding Protein 3 [blood]
Insulin-Like Growth Factor I [metabolism]
Liver Diseases [blood] [drug therapy]
Male
Middle Aged
Placebos
Recombinant Proteins [adverse effects] [therapeutic use]
0 (Carrier Proteins)
0 (Glycoproteins)
0 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor Binding Protein 3)
0 (Placebos)
0 (Recombinant Proteins)
0 (insulin-like growth factor binding protein, acid labile subunit)
12629-01-5 (Human Growth Hormone)
67763-96-6 (Insulin-Like Growth Factor I)
PreMedline Identifier: 12050245
All Sources Medscape eMedicine MEDLINE Drug Reference
• About Medscape • Privacy & Ethics • Terms of Use • WebMD Health• WebMD
Corporate • Help
All material on this website is protected by copyright, Copyright © 1994-2008 by
Medscape. This website also contains material copyrighted by 3rd parties.
Wow! Very good thread, even your condensed version was very good, when the person asked you to put it in one sentence, you patiently took on that assignment. Good for you, so I can't get through the whole thread without asking my main two questions.
1. Are you currently in that trial/study?
2. Is there any drug or vitamin that is similiar in composition to "Humatrope" and safe that a person like me can take, I'm talking over the counter? I am HepC positive, geno 1 who hasn't been treated. I ask because you have definitely done your homework. Also I believe in "self diagnosis" whole heartedly. Oh, even if there is something that is a prescription drug that is similiar in nature to "Humatrope", could you please mention it. Sorry for the messed up question, I should ask if Humatrope currently available through prescription.
Thank you very much for your eye opening post, I wish I would have read it sooner. I just kept passing it by, because I really didn't think it could apply to me, but hey live and learn and that I did once again on this forum. It's very possible that you may have already answered these questions. My back is killing me just sitting on this chair in front of the computer. If you have answered you can just say "it's in there", like that Ragu commercial and I will find it. (free smile) God Bless
1. Are you currently in that trial/study?
2. Is there any drug or vitamin that is similiar in composition to "Humatrope" and safe that a person like me can take, I'm talking over the counter? I am HepC positive, geno 1 who hasn't been treated. I ask because you have definitely done your homework. Also I believe in "self diagnosis" whole heartedly. Oh, even if there is something that is a prescription drug that is similiar in nature to "Humatrope", could you please mention it. Sorry for the messed up question, I should ask if Humatrope currently available through prescription.
Thank you very much for your eye opening post, I wish I would have read it sooner. I just kept passing it by, because I really didn't think it could apply to me, but hey live and learn and that I did once again on this forum. It's very possible that you may have already answered these questions. My back is killing me just sitting on this chair in front of the computer. If you have answered you can just say "it's in there", like that Ragu commercial and I will find it. (free smile) God Bless
Please note how this subject ties in to the thread posted by Ginger regarding underlying causes of HCV fatigue. We need more cross talk on this issue, and those who also suspect that there is a strong hormonal component to their HCV/fatigue issues might want to consider having the IGF-1 test done, just to see if there indeed is a common thread to this problem. The virus might just incapacitate one or more of our major governing glands, and thus keep us operating in a 'disabled' state, unless corrected.
We already know the Thyroid can be seriously affected by HCV, and by TX, and several articles, and research studies, also discuss Pituitary dysfunction from active HCV....so, I wonder why there is not more research being done to see if this is the major cause of all the extra-hepatic symptoms we may experience?
Many doctors assume that it is from Liver dysfunction, but as has been pointed out in another thread, there is usually little or NO correlation with fatigue and degree of liver degradation. Many cirrhotics often feel absolutely normal, and often a Stage 1 HCV infected individual can be just overwhelmed with fatigue, brain fog, and a host of nasty symptoms. Its certainly not just in their minds, and I really doubt that the liver contributes ANYTHING to the problems in a Stage 1, or even in a Stage 2. So where is the medical follow up on all of these issues? Wouldn't it be nice to have some effective treatments for all the HCV fallout? Treatments that are proven to be effective, and covered by insurance??? We need research studies to get to that point.
DoubleDose
We already know the Thyroid can be seriously affected by HCV, and by TX, and several articles, and research studies, also discuss Pituitary dysfunction from active HCV....so, I wonder why there is not more research being done to see if this is the major cause of all the extra-hepatic symptoms we may experience?
Many doctors assume that it is from Liver dysfunction, but as has been pointed out in another thread, there is usually little or NO correlation with fatigue and degree of liver degradation. Many cirrhotics often feel absolutely normal, and often a Stage 1 HCV infected individual can be just overwhelmed with fatigue, brain fog, and a host of nasty symptoms. Its certainly not just in their minds, and I really doubt that the liver contributes ANYTHING to the problems in a Stage 1, or even in a Stage 2. So where is the medical follow up on all of these issues? Wouldn't it be nice to have some effective treatments for all the HCV fallout? Treatments that are proven to be effective, and covered by insurance??? We need research studies to get to that point.
DoubleDose
DD; Man, do I hear you. I would pay in a heartbeat too. I am just so dam tired! My Rhemy really ruined my high about all this HGH. but so what if it is not FDA approved? Neither is Alinia, that is what I told him. Not a risk taking guy, I suppose. So I need to go to my PCP. As I said, I am so dammed tired! I still have the virus, so how do I know what is what? That is a dilemna for me. I think that simple test sure would be a start! I have fibromyalgia and would be surprised if the drugs I take for it aren't causing the fatigue, along with the Hep c. Fighting all the time with these Dr's is hard. I fought with my life during tx and I am not giving up, but sort of prioritizing my life into how I can sustain a livelyhood. Doing so means not fighting so much. I hate to admit that, but I need to take back my life. That doesn't mean I am giving up, but I have to give less time to some things, like fighting dr's and ins. co's. I dunno, perhaps I will begin to get that energy up again to fight another day. But today, I just don't have it in me.
Linda
Linda
Studies relating to countraindications of GH..
ARTICLES
Growth Hormone Secretagogues Stimulate the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis
and Are Diabetogenic in the Zucker Diabetic Fatty Rat1
R. G. Clark, G. B. Thomas, D. L. Mortensen, W. B. Won, Y. H. Ma, E. E.
Tomlinson, K. M. Fairhall and I. C. A. F. Robinson
Department of Endocrinology (R.G.C., D.L.M., W.B.W., Y.H.M, E.E.T.), Genentech
Inc., South San Francisco, California 94080; and Department of Neurophysiology
(G.B.T., K.M.F, I.C.A.F.R.), National Institute for Medical Research, Mill Hill,
London NW7 1AA, United Kingdom
Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. R. G. Clark,
Genentech, Inc., Endocrine Research, 390 Point San Bruno Boulevard, Mail Stop
#37, South San Francisco, California 94080. E-mail: ***@****.
Besides stimulating GH release, some GH secretagogues also release ACTH and
adrenal steroids. Several novel classes of potent GH secretagogues have recently
been described, and we have now tested their ability to release corticosterone
in conscious normal rats. All analogs that released GH also stimulated
corticosterone release to some degree, though the relative effects on GH and
corticosterone varied somewhat. The corticosterone responses for some analogs
were in the range of those obtained with CRF (2 µg, iv), whereas closely related
analogs inactive for GH release failed to release corticosterone. Activation of
the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis with GH release by GHRPs could be a
highly diabetogenic combination in susceptible individuals. Therefore, a potent
GHRP pentapeptide analog (G7039, 100 µg/day, sc, bid) was given to young obese
male Zucker diabetic fatty rats (ZDF, n = 8/group) for 24 days. Other groups
received hGH (500 µg/day, sc, bid), recombinant human insulin-like growth factor
(rhIGF)-1 (750 µg/day, sc, infusion) or excipient, alone or in combination. Both
G7039 and hGH increased weight gain, markedly raised serum glucose (G7039, 542 ±
37; hGH, 725 ± 30; excipient, 330 ± 57 mg/dl) and doubled insulin levels but had
opposite effects on serum triglycerides (G7039, 1412 ± 44; hGH 501 ± 46;
excipient 1058 ± 73 mg/dl) and fat depot weights. In contrast, treatment with
IGF-1, alone or in combination with hGH or G7039, improved the diabetic state
and stimulated growth. Thus, both G7039 and hGH treatment stimulated growth in
ZDF rats, but greatly worsened diabetes, unless IGF-1 was coadministered. Some
of the effects of G7039 could be explained by GH release, but the effects on
blood lipids and body fat were not seen with hGH and may reflect the additional
activation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis by the secretagogue. The
magnitude of these adverse effects in the ZDF animals suggest that chronic
administration of GHRP analogs with cortisol-releasing activity to obese or
diabetes-prone individuals warrants careful evaluation.
ARTICLES
Growth Hormone Secretagogues Stimulate the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis
and Are Diabetogenic in the Zucker Diabetic Fatty Rat1
R. G. Clark, G. B. Thomas, D. L. Mortensen, W. B. Won, Y. H. Ma, E. E.
Tomlinson, K. M. Fairhall and I. C. A. F. Robinson
Department of Endocrinology (R.G.C., D.L.M., W.B.W., Y.H.M, E.E.T.), Genentech
Inc., South San Francisco, California 94080; and Department of Neurophysiology
(G.B.T., K.M.F, I.C.A.F.R.), National Institute for Medical Research, Mill Hill,
London NW7 1AA, United Kingdom
Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. R. G. Clark,
Genentech, Inc., Endocrine Research, 390 Point San Bruno Boulevard, Mail Stop
#37, South San Francisco, California 94080. E-mail: ***@****.
Besides stimulating GH release, some GH secretagogues also release ACTH and
adrenal steroids. Several novel classes of potent GH secretagogues have recently
been described, and we have now tested their ability to release corticosterone
in conscious normal rats. All analogs that released GH also stimulated
corticosterone release to some degree, though the relative effects on GH and
corticosterone varied somewhat. The corticosterone responses for some analogs
were in the range of those obtained with CRF (2 µg, iv), whereas closely related
analogs inactive for GH release failed to release corticosterone. Activation of
the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis with GH release by GHRPs could be a
highly diabetogenic combination in susceptible individuals. Therefore, a potent
GHRP pentapeptide analog (G7039, 100 µg/day, sc, bid) was given to young obese
male Zucker diabetic fatty rats (ZDF, n = 8/group) for 24 days. Other groups
received hGH (500 µg/day, sc, bid), recombinant human insulin-like growth factor
(rhIGF)-1 (750 µg/day, sc, infusion) or excipient, alone or in combination. Both
G7039 and hGH increased weight gain, markedly raised serum glucose (G7039, 542 ±
37; hGH, 725 ± 30; excipient, 330 ± 57 mg/dl) and doubled insulin levels but had
opposite effects on serum triglycerides (G7039, 1412 ± 44; hGH 501 ± 46;
excipient 1058 ± 73 mg/dl) and fat depot weights. In contrast, treatment with
IGF-1, alone or in combination with hGH or G7039, improved the diabetic state
and stimulated growth. Thus, both G7039 and hGH treatment stimulated growth in
ZDF rats, but greatly worsened diabetes, unless IGF-1 was coadministered. Some
of the effects of G7039 could be explained by GH release, but the effects on
blood lipids and body fat were not seen with hGH and may reflect the additional
activation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis by the secretagogue. The
magnitude of these adverse effects in the ZDF animals suggest that chronic
administration of GHRP analogs with cortisol-releasing activity to obese or
diabetes-prone individuals warrants careful evaluation.
again the Humatrope reembursement center is one way to find endocrinologists already maintaining patients on it. those who specialize in the Pituitary are more likely to give you the benefit of testing and tx.
as a child and young adult I always remembered my dreams,,,,sometimes they went on for what seemed like hours and I could still rattle off the last 5 to 7 dream sequences upon awaking....they were highly detailed dreams.
so when the time came I was too tired to walk across a room upon waking....
and my thyroid had been corrected, and estrogen, and all the normal things that interfere with sleep....well...the sleep study showed no REM,,,,not much 3rd stage sleep either.
Please don;t think this one hormone will cure all ailments...I'm not suggesting that.
Yet the first thing I noticed was a return to restful and REM sleep....it was like day and night.
I remember telling the research nurse, while on the Merck trial....the first week....I told her, I know I'm not on the placebo" She said, oh how could you know that, there's no way you can possibly know that." And I replied oh yes I can, I haven't had restful sleep like this in 15 years. (later, when my records were released to me, the labs showed that I had gone from 40 to 145 IGF in the first week.....and yes, I was sleeping like a baby.
I think the issue with insurance is going to be, how low will they consider as a deficiency. Obviously at 20 percent I had no trouble, but at half normal there may be more resistance...it's hard to say.
If you go through all the channels and get Lilly's help, there's a good chance half of normal may qualify you for therapy.
If not, and for those not able to afford it without insurance, there are some changes in diet and excercise that can aide the body in it's own production if the gland is not damaged.....such as a diebetic diet to lower insulin resistance, and a closer look at protein intakes with attention to arginine uptake in particular.
DoubleDose....as soon as there's an oral form, there will be a lot less "conservatism" a lot of the reluctance is brought about by the abuses, but mostly by the cost/insurance hoops....not because there's something wrong with the science.
as a child and young adult I always remembered my dreams,,,,sometimes they went on for what seemed like hours and I could still rattle off the last 5 to 7 dream sequences upon awaking....they were highly detailed dreams.
so when the time came I was too tired to walk across a room upon waking....
and my thyroid had been corrected, and estrogen, and all the normal things that interfere with sleep....well...the sleep study showed no REM,,,,not much 3rd stage sleep either.
Please don;t think this one hormone will cure all ailments...I'm not suggesting that.
Yet the first thing I noticed was a return to restful and REM sleep....it was like day and night.
I remember telling the research nurse, while on the Merck trial....the first week....I told her, I know I'm not on the placebo" She said, oh how could you know that, there's no way you can possibly know that." And I replied oh yes I can, I haven't had restful sleep like this in 15 years. (later, when my records were released to me, the labs showed that I had gone from 40 to 145 IGF in the first week.....and yes, I was sleeping like a baby.
I think the issue with insurance is going to be, how low will they consider as a deficiency. Obviously at 20 percent I had no trouble, but at half normal there may be more resistance...it's hard to say.
If you go through all the channels and get Lilly's help, there's a good chance half of normal may qualify you for therapy.
If not, and for those not able to afford it without insurance, there are some changes in diet and excercise that can aide the body in it's own production if the gland is not damaged.....such as a diebetic diet to lower insulin resistance, and a closer look at protein intakes with attention to arginine uptake in particular.
DoubleDose....as soon as there's an oral form, there will be a lot less "conservatism" a lot of the reluctance is brought about by the abuses, but mostly by the cost/insurance hoops....not because there's something wrong with the science.
Even worst case scenario, where you determine there really is a deficiency, and your doctor agrees to treat, but your insurance refuses to cover the expense...I will pay it gladly out of pocket.... $800 to $1,000/ month is like a large (ok, very large) car payment, and could, if the treatment works, make all the difference in the world. If I could feel alert, and fully healthy and motivated again, I would pay it myself in a heartbeat. Eventually the price will come down, and maybe eventually insurance would be more or less forced to cover the treatment...especially if it makes a substantial, and medically documented difference in health and symptoms. Doctors can twist insurance companies 'arms' pretty well when they have lab results, and proof of effectiveness.
This is about the last variable that I have been able to isolate that could potentially be the cause of my ongoing post-tx symptoms. If the HCV is gone, or minimized, controlled at subdetectable levels, and my thyroid is fully corrected, and my ANA now points to 'normal', then I don't know what else could be addressed at this point, other than the pituitary issue. Either the therapy will help tremendously, or it won't. If it does not....then the continuing search for answers will go on, and on. I look at this as a great opportunity. If it does not work, we won't be paying much for very long. If it does work, then I will feel that the dollars will be the best spent in my life. Everything is not always free in life, and this may take a ' little piece of our hides' to make happen.
I am most concerned about getting my 'conservative' endocrinologist to take the issue very seriously, and to make a decision to treat aggressively if the follow up tests warrant it!
Good luck to everyone who is now pursuing this line of investigation. Let's all keep each other informed of what happens, doctor's opinions, lab results, insurance issues, and reactions to any treatments received.
We need to really determine if we are on to something substantial.
DoubleDose
This is about the last variable that I have been able to isolate that could potentially be the cause of my ongoing post-tx symptoms. If the HCV is gone, or minimized, controlled at subdetectable levels, and my thyroid is fully corrected, and my ANA now points to 'normal', then I don't know what else could be addressed at this point, other than the pituitary issue. Either the therapy will help tremendously, or it won't. If it does not....then the continuing search for answers will go on, and on. I look at this as a great opportunity. If it does not work, we won't be paying much for very long. If it does work, then I will feel that the dollars will be the best spent in my life. Everything is not always free in life, and this may take a ' little piece of our hides' to make happen.
I am most concerned about getting my 'conservative' endocrinologist to take the issue very seriously, and to make a decision to treat aggressively if the follow up tests warrant it!
Good luck to everyone who is now pursuing this line of investigation. Let's all keep each other informed of what happens, doctor's opinions, lab results, insurance issues, and reactions to any treatments received.
We need to really determine if we are on to something substantial.
DoubleDose
Yes, it is intriguing. I need to MAKE myself go to my GP to see if he will give me this test. I think he will and send me to an endro. But I do believe my Rhemy that it is not FDA approved and we will have problems getting tx for it, if needed. I sure would love to get out of this state of Fibromyagia and fatigue (my biggest complaints), but knowing my insurance I will have to go through the big hoops to get tx for this, if needed. It took over a year to get a new Dr. who knew what the hell he was doing. I did it, but man was it a work out. With my energy these days, I am happy I am finally making it to school!
Yep, I am frustrated. I don't even want to make an appt. with the PCP, I am so sick of Dr's. I suppose I sound resigned to my fate...I really don't want to be, but dammit, I am so tired! Some days it is all I can do to get dressed, still! I am not depressed. Okay, with a little help from my friends, maybe I can do it. Fight again!
Linda
Yep, I am frustrated. I don't even want to make an appt. with the PCP, I am so sick of Dr's. I suppose I sound resigned to my fate...I really don't want to be, but dammit, I am so tired! Some days it is all I can do to get dressed, still! I am not depressed. Okay, with a little help from my friends, maybe I can do it. Fight again!
Linda
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STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Condoms are the most effective way to prevent HIV and STDs.
PrEP is used by people with high risk to prevent HIV infection.
