Kidney Problems

[Drarig]

Post tx now for two months.   Started feeling right side flank pain into about my 10th month of tx.  Told my GI about it and he kind of blew it off (twice!)  (I have herniated disks, so he attributed it to that). Left another msg for him about it after completing tx & never got a call back (he's not the best with return phone calls). Then went for an overall physical with my primary last week & & told him about it, & he also attributed it to back/disk probs, however my back probs are all lower, not middle. Each week it gets worse. Couldn't take the pain any longer & went to my chiro yesterday, and he said, your pain is generating from your kidneys!  He said, "I'm not an MD, but I'm pretty confident something's going on with your kidneys".  I'm very upset right now because it took a chiro to figure that out!  Has anyone experienced kidney problems/disease while on this?? I've just about had it with these doctors.  I knew all along it was a pain I never felt before, but as usual, they don't listen.  I've just about had it with my doctors.    

[ladybug52]

Sorry to get side-tracked also. I have a short attention span and it was like reading a novel by the time I got to  post  WheW!
About the kidneys vs back dx. Your blood work will show bun/creatinine levels out of whack if it's the kidneys. Also the kidneys help regulate blood pressure, are you experiencing any increases in b/p?  I hope you get the results of the blood work soon. It's the frying pan or the fire situation, but I hope everything turns out with the least damage for you. I think it's pretty incredible that a chiro wasn't trying to turn it into a back issue since that's what they primarily ts. Sounds like he was admitting that you need an MD, and that's very honest of him. I think. Let us know what turns out.

[jmjm530]

Not as bad as you describe, but an old lower back problem flared shortly after treatment. I attribute it to the inactivity during the year I treated, but who knows if the drugs themselves could have been a factor. Others have also reported various body issues post treatment. So, if after testing it turns out not to be your kidneys, you can join the post treatment body ache club.

My current approach is 5-6 visits/week to the gym for strength and endurance work, focusing on my back and the supporting abdominal muscles. Your back problems sound more serious but other than surgery and the associated risks, the only road I know to better back health is rehab exercises. Hopefully, it will be your back and in time you will find a way to get it better.

Depending on your time, finances and location, you might consider private Alexander lessons from a licensed practioner. I found it very helpful for my back last time around and probably should take some refresher lessons at this point.

All the best,

-- Jim

[Forseegood]

Hi, meant not disrespect either, I hope that you continue to heal, and feel better ultimately, which so often seems to be the case with so many people post tx...be well...

[mikesimon]

Although I digressed quickly with MYown I did take you very seriously. That's why I responded and advised you to get blood work to check your renal function. The rest of the BS wasn't intended as disrespect by any means. Mike

[Drarig]

Thx, Jim, for your kind response.  I know you've been around for awhile, so probably have read in the past year the issues I had with my two doctors, hence my post.  Others who are newer to the forum may not be aware of what I went thru with my doctor.  Yes, obviously, I did go for bloodwork, etc., & now have been waiting for several days now for my docs to call me with my results, so will keep you posted.  I do hope it's my back & not kidneys, but then again, I already have 4 bad disks in my lumbar, so would hate to think it's crawling up even further.  It gets more painful every year.  Wish I could say I'm enjoying post tx, but I seem to be having more pain thru my body now than while on tx. I kind of "breezed" thru tx except for low wbc, so maybe now it's my time to suffer a little.   Hope it's not my old "friend" coming back to visit.  Won't get 6 month pcr until July.  Thx again for taking me seriously.   You've always been supportive.  Hope you're doing well.

[jmjm530]

There are simple tests and procedures to diagnose kidney problems. I had such tests years ago to help differentiate my lower back pain. Turned out kidneys were fine and it was muscular. Tell your doctor you want kidney issues ruled out. If he doesn't take you serious, do your own adjustment and see another doctor. Hope it all works out.

-- Jim

[mikesimon]

I agree with you and enjoy reading your posts . You are concise and logical. Mike

[mikesimon]

Hello Mattie, gee it's been quite a while. First, I am doing well. I did have an excursion in May 2006 after a dramatic Prograf reduction but that has resolved and my numbers look very good. I don't know why your TP team has been reluctant to treat and from what I know that generally isn't the preferred approach. I frequently wonder why different centers can have such diametrically opposed protocols with HCV patients. There are several compelling reasons to treat sooner rather than later and the only reasons I can see for not treating is the threat of rejection or the patient's inability to tolerate treatment. While rejection is a risk I personally don't know of any transplant recipient who rejected as a result of TX and I believe the risk is quite small. There is a recent article from France which states that acute rejection occurred in 21% of the transplant recipients treated with Peg.
"Twenty-one percent of patients developed acute rejection (5 mild, 9 moderate and 1 severe) during IFN-based therapy. Patients were treated for 8 (1-15) months prior to rejection. Previous history of acute rejection before IFN therapy and treatment with pegylated-IFN was significantly associated with rejection (p = 0.04 and p = 0.02, respectively). The rejection was successfully treated in 87% of patients. No chronic rejection or graft losses were observed. Acute rejection under IFN-based therapy often occurs in LT recipients, but early diagnosis with protocol biopsies and early treatment can lead to a favorable outcome."
See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=17227566
This doesn't conform with my experience and I am leery of the French in general but that is what they found so who am I to argue?
Interferon can also trigger autoimmune hepatitis in transplant recipients but that risk exists for immunocompetent patients as well.
See: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/553632?src=mp
I am really happy to see you again and I wish you and your husband the best of luck. Mike

[ladybug52]

I've tried to reason with jboyk but he told me that I haven't studied logic or I would understand his point. Maybe that's your problem too, you're just not a logical thinker like him ;)
You expressed yourself well without belittling anyone or disrespect to others ideas. That's why I love you!
Bug

[Forseegood]

Sorry to say, I'm getting bored with this, cause it seems you're not listening to what I'm saying....no offense intended, I think you have made some great posts...the cornerstone of debate is two individuals defining their terms first off..."Alternative medicine" is a huge term meaning many different things to many different people...the individual we speak of, (cause I hate conjuring his name up over and over when he's not even here, it's so rude) is an advocate of certain types of supplements, etc...that, in itself, could be termed as "alternative therapies" to some, to others not...

What are we even arguing? You make no specifics except to talk of chiropractors and Chinese meds killing someone you know...I don't draw a generality, or a universal truth out of one instance....You said you didn't as well...

But having been helped by "complimentary medicine" or whatever you want to call it, several times, has made me look at things differently...I no longer think that modern western medicine is the only game in town, and that all doctors are super-human beings...many of them are just human beings like the rest of us who do make mistakes from time to time, and if you have an MD who claims to have all the answers, go seek another opinion (in my view.)

And making a jump to me, or anyone saying that we would go to a chiropractor to get a diagnosis of cirrhosis - to somehow *prove* your point - is just clouding the issue and making silly extrapolations, no offense...well, I'm done...off to walk the doggie, hope you have a good night, respectfully...

[ladybug52]

First of all I'd like Myown to stop picking on my dear friend Mike. Hasn't he been thru enough with not making it into med school like his Dad and all his brothers and sisters? Poor guy had to settle on being a lawyer, get off his case! Then when no one in his family would operate because of the law degree he had to get his cousin the chiropractor/hot dog vendor! MyOwn do you have a shred of compassion in that holistic body of yours? I think all those supplements have made you an unfeeling caricature of a true human being. Hope this goes in one ear and stays there and you learn some kindness for a change!
BTW, HR just called and said he doesn't like everyone speaking for him. He would say this himself but he's busy researching and watching apoptosis re-runs.

[jboyhk]

Its one thing being a compassionate dr (which I am sure he is).

Its another saying he approves of alternative medicine (and by that I mean medicine or procedures that do not undergo any sort of peer review or trials).

I wonder what he would say if you told him that your chiro has diagnosed you with cirrhosis.

[jboyhk]

You put HR as a dr who accepts alternative medicine?

How did you get that impression? He was very skeptical of Dr Franco's homeopathic cure for HepC.


The point is, you just tell one story however for every story you tell, there are thousands of misdiagnosis, ill advised treatment causing death from non medical qwacks.

One antedodal story does not prove a point.

Just like I can point to saying I know IV drug users who have naturally cleared the virus so therefore drugs are a definitite cure for HepC.


That is why we have randomized double blinded studies.

[Myown]

I'm not roaring with laughter but I do have a warm feeling inside and that's good enough for me.
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try Nexium
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Now you have this girl really believing you are a doctor.

Hey btw did you renew the license for your hot dog stand on 49th street? I heard they were giving all you vendors a hard time. Good luck. I'll stop by for another dog next week. Leave the kraut off tho. It made me sick. Do you ever change that water?

[mikesimon]

Please don't interrupt a pleasant conversation with your banality. You really do need lessons in etiquette and refinement but it probably wouldn't improve your situation. I thought you said you weren't going to respond but apparently you were unable to restrain yourself. Try harder this time, please. Mike  

[Myown]

Yeah I can't pass up making myself laugh, you're right.

Looks like its time for you to get the Archie bell album out again.

[LadyY]

You guys should get work in a  comedy club....doing skits. Ya kinda remind me of Abbott & Costello... Dean Martin & what's his name...there goes my memory...well, at least you are both entertaining!

Mike,
has the hep c returned after transplant...are you still taking interferon/ribo?

[couchpotato]

The format has sure changed, has taken me awhile to figure things out but after seeing you on today, thought I'd write a few lines.

Husband and I have just returned from 5 months in Mexico and am wondering how you are doing. 7 years post tp...wow, time does fly, doesn't it? Has everything leveled out for you? We stopped at TP center on route home, doc's are amazed at my hubby's health and all his blood work is right on target. Liver enzymes are "pristine" but iron load is high so is going to do 2 months of phlebotomies (?). Anyway, although they have NEVER treated a TP patient with perfect numbers like him, they have relented and a have agreed to his starting tx in 2 months. Being genotype 2 helps, but we find it very strange that they would would rather wait until the liver is being noticably attacked before they would proceed. Chance of rejection will go up to 20%. (Does that number seem right to you?)

Just wanted to say hi, and let you know what's going on. Let me know how things are going for you and if you make it to Vegas......enjoy yourself...you deserve it.

Mattie

[Forseegood]

not to get into any controvesy, even though the one on here already is pretty funny....long time ago I had anxiety attacks (we're talking over 20 years)....but real anxiety attacks, so bad that I'd have to lie down on the floor at a shopping center....went to the er a few times, I mean really, really bad and I was at college and I had a hard time with my studies....Went to 3 very prominent Beverly Hills doctors, all telling me the same thing, to take tranquilizers, which I did, but I was nodding out in class not - to mention I hated being drugged up feeling all the time...

Well, went to this chiropractor/nutristionist and he told me it was probably hypoglycemia, and I should be tested for it...and that instead of eating the way I was, which was my first meal at 2 pm, the next one at 7pm, etc...that I should eat small meals, every 3 hours or so, with complex carbs and protein and to exercise more, but not more then 4 hours prior to sleeping...did that for one week and blamo! Anxiety attacks were gone, I had been suffering really badly for almost a year and a half and they were gone just because I started eating differently and exercising more...my take away from this is not all doctors are on the money all the time (same thing goes for chiros as well) and you never know where youre going to get good information from sometimes, (I've gotten some good advice even from laymen on this board) and it's worth at least a look see...if you've been going through all the usual channels and not coming up with much....

[Myown]

cents not to get into any controvesy, even though the one on here already is pretty funny
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Controversy, what controversy? I like to think of it as a crescendo that sorta builds with our every conversation. Controversy sounds too negative. ha!

But so glad to hear that you received help for the attacks. That had to be horribe being thrown on tranquilizers. thats the whole thing, conventional medicine puts a bandaid on the problem and doesn't look for the root of problem (as you know)

I know a woman who (and this is years ago when I was a teenager) who all of a sudden became so depressed and really went into a  full blown mental illness. Her husband took her to so many doctors. This wasn't anxiety attacks. She was in another world 24/7

She was on all sorts of meds and sedatives to the point that she had a fungus under her fingernails from all the meds. She was like a Zombie. Her husband just happened to be telling someone about his wife and this fellow said "take her to doctor so and so over NY. He is a medical nutritionist.

Well LET ME TELL YOU!!!!!  The turn around was amazing! This lady was taken off all drugs and put on mega vitamins etc. She never had the problem again in all the years I knew her. There needs to be more doctors like HR. He seems to look at the entire picture. SFB was telling me some real nice things about him a couple of months ago. We would have more cures than we do now if ther were more doctors like HR.

see ya later!

[Myown]

You guys should get work in a comedy club....doing skits.
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We can't. I'm permanently disabled from the knife throwing act we had with Barnum and Bailey.

He lied. He's not a good knife thrower. He just wanted to throw them at me for some reason.

[mikesimon]

I was kidding when I said I was a doctor. I am treated by a transplant surgeon and it will be 7 years post transplant in June. I have just studied this stuff for so long that I feel like I should be licensed by now. Again, I am kidding, sort of.
Mike

[Myown]

I believe in holistic but it doesn't mean that I would accept every holistic doctors opinion as being gospel and I am not familiar with Dr. Franco's 'cure' to comment on it.

I have seen posts myself made by HR and he has mentioned immune building supplements etc. I believe that HR truly wants to find cures for people that have diseases such as us and he doesn't appear to have tunnel vision as some doctors do.

I think I remember you from a while back and I could tell by your comments that you are probably a drug sales rep.

[Forseegood]

Respectfully, I wouldn't go by *that* particular proposition... in that hospitals and M.D. doctors kill tens of thousands of patients, per year, in this country...by misdiagnoses, drug interactions and drug mistakes of all kinds, hospital mistakes, etc etc etc...many, many more people die this way than from any homeopath or integrative specialist, though your point is taken that there are quacks out there, or people who are merely incompetent to being outright charlatans...

I just find it odd that with some people, any talk of integrative medicine or supplementation, etc, and these same old assumptions get trotted out...if you don't believe me, look at the stats of say, people who have died from Chinese medicine, as compared to the stats of people who have died of conventional medicine - per capita...

That being said, if I had a broken leg, I would certainly not go to a integrative medicine doctor, not for that particular thing anyway...if I needed surgery I'd certainly go to a qualified surgeon...and I have hepatitis, so I go to a very prominent hepatologist...that doesn't mean that going to an integrative specialist or nutritionist or a chiropractor is being mutually exclusive, not to me anyway...I like to find answers and resolve my problems, am I am glad that I am open minded enough to see a variety of experts...and this has served me well...hope you are well...