My visit with Dr. Zhang

[Bali05]

I went to see Dr. Zhang after reading different posts in various forums
from people who claim to have lowered and even normalized their enzymes.
While we all know that this is not a "cure" , we still prefer normal enzymes
over elveated ones in any given situation.
Dr. Zhang explained to me how you can live an almost normal life span
with the virus by keeping inflammation and anything else that is bad to the
liver at bay.
He uses herbal formulas that have been applied for hundreds of years to
millions of chinese (China has very high rates of hepatitis)

Does Dr. Zhang pass the medhelp legitamacy test ?

[pugdaddy]

Mike, when we talk....hopefully later today:
I want to get your thoughts on the Dr Zhang herbs...as to whether or not they'd offer any benefit to someone like me.  Thx -

[copyman]

you are a well informed member. please post more.

[jusjames]

i will sell u some good stuff to get rid of hep c , its called snake oil
if the tcm are so good why are the chineese dying from hep ?
they dont cure hep c
they reduce enzymes when u on them , and then they go back up as soon as you stop because really the inflammation is still there the herbs mask the true blood result.
save your money

[copyman]

very good points willy, bill, hope.

Any good doctor or someone up to date with HCV knows that normalized liver enzymes & viral load have nothing to do with liver damage.

I have read that many times chinese herbs do more harm then good. Herbs are not regulated and some have been tested and had way over the limit pesticides!
Anyone thinking about doing chinese herbs PROCEED with CAUTION !!!

The only chance to cure HCV is with interferon & ribavirin. And of course the new PI's added to the SOC TX make it even better..

[mhudnall]

Yeah, these alternative doctors can be expensive. That said, the reason for that is that they are not covered by insurance - all costs are out-of-pocket.

The reason that there are no clinical studies of alternative therapies are that they are expensive too. No drug companies will fund the costs, and the FDA and NIH are not very helpful. It took ten years to fund the LDN/Crohn's study. However, look what happened when they did. Two thirds in total remission in 3 weeks with no side effects.

Imagine what people with a mindset like copyman were saying about using LDN for Crohn's before that clinical study. What it took was a lot of people trying it and finding relief, before it demanded enough attention to seriously mount a clinical trial. And then the study had to be funded by a University medical research team.

As for alternatives, they will never eradicate the virus. Therefore the landscape will be continually shifting. There is nothing easy about it. But protecting your liver will buy you more time than ignoring it.

By the way, Dr. Zhang's herbs are made in California by a US company, so there is no need to fear heavy metals or impurities.

[Bill1028]

Mike, that seems to be a constant issue with alternatives.  I been reading alt med site for years and see the same people trying different things and showing improvement and  it always goes back to original numbers.  Then they are off to the next alt.  Since a blood test is a snapshot in time.  I’m not sure if it is the natural cycle or perhaps more likely the crafty virus catching on and mutating to avoid being destroyed.  I think that is the major hurdle as to why there aren’t any studies of alternatives being effective long term.

[hopeful51]

I guess I am confused I thought you saw a Dr. Weeks in Washington St.
I called Dr. Weeks and it was going to cost me $600.00 for a two hour consult....needless to say I won't be seeing Dr Weeks.
I was very dissapointed that someone who says they can help would cost so much money....now if he came home with me and cooked and cleaned .....maybe.....just trying to keep it light.
So I am back to the waiting game.......come on new drugs.
Keeping my enzymes where they should be diet and the dreded exercise.
Hopeful51

[mhudnall]

Yes, I am doing both.

The autoimmune reactions came on with INF - in fact the extreme reactions led to my discontinuing INF.

When I first started LDN a year ago it brought my VL way down and my enzymes down to near normal. Over the last year the enzymes have crept back up and then the rashes came back. In my view, the autoimmune thing is working over the LDN. So I increased my LDN dose to 4.5 mg from 3 mg and started doing Dr. Zhang's herbs.

And Willy, I always do labs. Verification is important. Dr. Zhang says that 80% of his patients experience normalized enzymes with his herbs. He strongly advises lab tests to verify. When one of his patients achieves three consecutive labs (12 months) of normal enzymes, then he moves into the cellular repair herbs, with a maintenance dose of the anti-inflammatory herbs moving on.

Mike

[Bill1028]

mhudnall wrote:
“I've been doing Dr. Zhang's herbs for about a month and a half. I am doing it to lower enzymes. He also has a formula that addresses autoimmune skin rashes, and it was effective in stopping the rashes. Dr. Zhang told me to quit taking it when the rashes disappeared, which I did. Then later they started coming back, but were eliminated again by the formula.”


Mike, Are you not taking ldn now?  I thought the ldn cured your skin rashes.

[Willy50]

I don't want to be a cynic here but I pass on a word of warning.  In my limited experience w/ alternatives I did cross a person who experienced a bad rise in their LFT's while on Zhang's herbs (in 2005).  Both AST and ALT rose above 500 and both fell about 400+ after one month off the herbs.

You could decide that 1) all chinese herbs are bad,  2) this person got a bad batch, or 3) this person had some allergy or some other issue.
I've no opinion other that to say;  monitor your journey with blood tests.

I also know a person who claimed that they cleared using Chinese herbs.  I'm suspicious of that but cannot prove it either way.  I am less skeptical of the person w/ the elevated LFT's; they were FREAKING out.

Get those tests and make sure of what you are doing.

Willy

[mhudnall]

The expensive protocol that did more harm than good was INF. The harm was extreme and documented by labs.

LDN is inexpensive and has kept my VL in the very low range (300 K). That is documented by labs.

The Zhang herbs are somewhat expensive but If they control inflammation, then they are worth it. I'll find out if they are effective by doing my labs. If the enzymes are down or reduced then they are worth it.

There are many anti-fibrotics and liver regenerative substances available; these are documented with studies. In the absence of reliable lab tests to measure fibrosis (besides the biopsy), I guess the only way to establish this point will be to outlive the SVR people on this board. That being said, I'll miss you when you are gone copy.

By the way, we all know what you don't believe in; what, besides INF do you believe in?  Since I can't do INF again, what do you suggest I do? Save my money and say good-bye? Seriously, let's distill your advice down to a sentence or two. What's my prognosis without INF Dr. Doom?

[banarep]

I too have tried herbal remidies, all with keeping the enzymes down, but not the liver damage.  my question to anyone wanting to do herbal chinese medacine, is if it works, why does china have so many people with liver disease?  check the med facts about china, liver disease and the % of people with end stage liver damage.

[Kristina538]

I tried most things over the years including a very expensive Naturopath who managed to make me feel fantastic and keep the enzymes down with a protocal not much different that what Gauf was taking with tx.

I've spend heaps on healthcare to try to keep myself in better shape until I was re-eligible for tx.  All roads lead to Rome and I think the psychological and physical benefits of well-respected alternative tx's helped me with SOC when it was my turn to do it.

[Marcia2202]

Money, money, money...

So is the way of the world, everything costs money, nothing is free.

One even has to pay for using public bathrooms.

Mind you, I wasn't aware that Dr. Z's protocol was that expensive.

[mhudnall]

I've been doing Dr. Zhang's herbs for about a month and a half. I am doing it to lower enzymes. He also has a formula that addresses autoimmune skin rashes, and it was effective in stopping the rashes. Dr. Zhang told me to quit taking it when the rashes disappeared, which I did. Then later they started coming back, but were eliminated again by the formula.

I will be doing labs in a couple of months, so I will post my results as far as liver enzymes.

Dr. Zhang is trained in western medicine - a two-year fellowship at Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital. He worked as a research fellow for a year at the Wakai clinic in Nagoya, Japan. He also taught for a year at UC Davis as a visiting professor.

His formulas are Traditional Chinese Medicine, but are made for him in the US. Dr. Weil recommends him because he has referred hepatitis c patients to Dr. Zhang and has followed their outcomes.

Dr. Zhang has written a very well-written book called "Healing Hepatitis C with Modern Chinese Medicine".

The cost of the herbal therapy is expensive ($230/month for me); pennies on the dollar compared to conventional treatment however.

China has a high rate of hepatitis b. Still, the chronic damage in both hep b and c are similar; also the remedies for both are the same in TCM.

[copyman]

Here we go again. Another doctor that preys on the weak. I personally know about this one. I consulted with Dr Z a few years back. The conversations always lead back to money. All these off the wall docs have a interesting concept but none can prove anything or back it up with studies.

Bottom line with these medicine men is..........Show me the money !!!!!

[Bali05]

The proof is in the pudding.
I still need to see bloods after his protocoll.

Zhangs standard protocoll consists of:

Hepa Formula #2  = 2  x3/day
Lingustrin Cap     = 1   x3/day
CirculationCap     = 1  x3/day
Glycerin cap       = 1or 2  3x/day

Cost is somewhere between $ 200 - $300 /mo
Actually I forgot Dr. Zhang wants you to take Silimarin x3day as well.

[Marcia2202]

I don't think that any discussion on any 'approval' has ever come up in connection with him. If not, I might have missed it.

[franke566]

thank you.  I'm so dumb I was afraid to ask.  Yes, Andrew Weil, M.D., I have read a couple of his books-oops, I don't mean to give him a plug so I will not say anything positive or negative.  Since it looks pretty bleak for me in the long term I try to find out what others are trying and then go to my Hepatologist to see if it may offer some relief.
Palliative care is looming and I WONT BACK DOWN, as the song goes as long as I can sit up and read and type, no I WONT BACK DOWN.  Thanks

[Bali05]

Thanks for positive the feedback.

Has Dr. Zhang been "approved" by medhelp ?

[Upbeat]

This is who DR Weil recommends to his hep c patients.  I saw Dr Weil a few years ago and thought about doing Dr Zhang but the cost was very high.  It involved about 20 pills a day at different times and frankly I don't live that a structured a life.  Some people swear by him others do not.  I doubt there has been any trials.

[Marcia2202]

Btw, we have discussed Dr. Zhang here several times before. I don't think that anyone on the forum has seen him so far. I was in contact with him by email, before starting tx, but decided to do tx right away.

[Marcia2202]

My friend's husband has been very satisfied with Dr. Zhang's protocol. He went through tx and obtained SVR, but also went to Dr. Zhang. They swear by Dr. Zhang. The person in question is a well known celebrity, who can pretty much chose whatever treatments he wants. They strongly advised me to get onto his protocol and I am still considering it, post tx.

Dr. Zhang is a Conventional Doctor and also a Dr. in TCM. He practices Modern Chinese Medicine. From what I researched on him some while ago, he is respected in the US, Japan and China for his work and has worked with Mt. Sinai NY and John Hopkins in B'more. They are interested in his approach for patients who cannot do SOC or have relapsed etc.

[Bali05]

OK
at the risk of being accused of pitching
here are the websites
http://www.sinomedresearch.org/drz.htm
http://www.hepapro.com/

No.all types of hepatitis in China. Remember Hep C was not discovered that long ago
but it has been around for thousands of years. So chinese medicine evolved by treating symptoms thru trial and error over many many years.Treatment focus is liver health and immunity not viral eradication.

Statement from Zhang clinic:
If you want viral eradication try Interferon.
We can also help with sx on tx.

Dr. Andrew Wheill (spelling) endorsed Dr. Zhang on Larry King.

That`s all I know.