New Tread ? I'm not sure...

[moonbutters]

I'm new to this forum , and very glad to know there is such a thing around.  My daughter said "Mom , you need to find some people to talk to about this " . And I thought , Gosh , where ?

But , I do have a question that may have already been addressed , if so I can't find it and so would appreciate comments or threads.

Is anyone here dealing with anger issus as far as how you got this to start with ? ...I am.

First of all let me say that I am not unfimillar with Hep - C as I had a sister who died from this 6 years ago. She had recieved a blood transfusion after being hit by a car while crossing a street. So for many years my family was accustom to taking all the nessesary precautions to prevent spreading.  She died a horrible death , and I was the one who "tended her" for the last few years.

I'm getting off track , but my point is , I am not unfimilliar with Hep-C .

My anger issues are as follows.

I met a man 8 months ago , no sex for the first month or so, then yes. We dated for a few months and then decided to marry .We married on March 24th of this year. About a week later he told me he had been for a routine checkup and was found positive for B and C.. I was shocked , scared and curious. So... after looking through his medical records I discovered that in fact he had been diagnosed over 9 years ago with both.

This leads me to my point. I am Very angry and not at all sure I can live with a man who was dishonest to me about such a serious matter. As I told him , more than likely I would have said , " OK , I know what to do and I can deal with this . But the fact that I wasn't given a choice really upsets me. I could have prevevted this from happening to me if I had known.

Am I being unreasonable ? Am I wrong ? We argue alll the time and some days barely speak because this is always in the back of my mind.

Gosh, I'm gonna hush now ...LOL.

Just hoping for some comments. And yes, I am Hep -C positive now . "they" estimate 6 months.

Thanks,

moon

[IAmTheWalrus]

I do not believe anyone knows for absolute sure how an individual case was contracted, especially when decades have gone by after it was contracted. Just because you were diagnosed last week does not mean that you contracted the disease recently. If people continue not to test, then they will only find out about the disease after it has had decades to work its morbid way and the patients finally comes down with symptoms that can't just be attibuted to a case of the flu or depression.

You may have been at risk for a particular incident 30 or 40 years earlier, but in that intervening times how many teeth cleanings, shots, blood draws, used medicin drawn from a vial with a common syringe, doctor or dental shots performed with reusable needles?

[IAmTheWalrus]

I do not believe anyone knows for absolute sure how an individual case was contracted, especially when decades have gone by after it was contracted. Just because you were diagnosed last week does not mean that you contracted the disease recently. If people continue not to test, then they will only find out about the disease after it has had decades to work its morbid way and the patients finally comes down with symptoms that can't just be attibuted to a case of the flu or depression.

You may have been at risk for a particular incident 30 or 40 years earlier, but in that intervening times how many teeth cleanings, shots, blood draws, used medicin drawn from a vial with a common syringe, doctor or dental shots performed with reusable needles?

[btsmith]

  Yes I am/was really angry about how I contacted the disease, almost homocidal, as I could trace it to one event 37 years ago, which is about the same amount of time I have had Hep C.  It was a dirty needle with four other guys, of which I haven't had contact for the last 25 years.  It was a first and last time for me and probably wouldn't have happened except that I was real drunk.   Anyway, that was until I read this post and now I wonder if I couldn't have gotten it during those loving, loose times of the ' 60s and '70s when if anyone of you were there you'd know what I mean.   All my docs, G.I., Hep., PCP, etc. say just about the same thing, "getting it from sex is rare".  So maybe now I can lighten up on the hate a little bit, after reading this post and just say I don't know.  I also  wonder if anybody knows for sure.  A burgler could have used your toothbrush?
btsmith

[IAmTheWalrus]

Well, I can't stand having this thread out here ending with my angry and sarcastic comment. I guess I can blame the ribavirin and a generally bad week. I'll try to curb my tongue (fingers?) in the future. Apologies to anyone who was alarmed or took offense from my remark.  :)

[IAmTheWalrus]

What's wrong with monogamous Mormons? I am pretty sure there are more than 12 of them, anyway. Don't most of them have that many wives? I heard if you look closely, they have small horns on their heads (usually covered by hair).

Yeah, it is really too bad the way some diseases, and people, get stereotyped in our society.

[Kerfluffle]

>btw-I took human growth and dev, too-not everything can be
>summed up by kohlberg and piaget :-)

Don't make me bring out Maslow !  [g]

[Isobella]

I have read the posts and maybe missed something....Moonbutters sister died of HCV, being a good sister, Moon lovingly cared for her sister to the end.  Are you saying that prior to that "6 month period" when she was with hubby to be, Moon had tested-and shown to be negative?  And that is where the 6 month range came in-- because that is when her liver enzymes became elevated?

I think it was very very dishonest for hubby to take your choices away, but was Moon negative (by blood tests) before he came along?  Or had she not tested until after hubby's deceit was brought out.

Not to offend, or be dense, but I have a  family and a husband and always looking info on paths of transmission.

Thanks


btw-I took human growth and dev, too-not everything can be summed up by kohlberg and piaget :-)

[Kerfluffle]

I agree with everything that you said.  Especially the part where you say that medical professionals you have spoken with have characterized the risk of sexual transmission as "low".  I have heard the very same thing.  Then I see something like this from the Center of Disease Control in a  HepC report in the STD section  ---  

----------------------------
http://www.cdc.gov/std/Treatment/2006/hepatitis-c.htm

The role of sexual activity in the transmission of HCV has been controversial. Case-control studies have reported an association between acquiring HCV infection and exposure to a sex contact with HCV infection or exposure to multiple sex partners. Surveillance data also indicate that 15%–20% of persons reported with acute HCV infection have a history of sexual exposure in the absence of other risk factors
--------------------------------

So is the transmission "low" or is it "controversial" or is it a 20% risk factor?  Remember when AIDS was the "Gay Disease" --- until it wasn't?  Something to think about perhaps?

[danceswithbirdies]

Sexual transmission of Hep C, while possible, is one of the less likely means of infection.  Like many members of this forum, I had undetected HCV for decades.  As soon as I was diagnosed my husband was tested and the result was negative.  I also notified my ex and he too tested negative.  

I agree that those who engage in high risk behavion (e.g. sex that is rough enough to cause tissue tears) have an elevated risk of transmitting the virus, but the medical professionals I have consulted have characterized the risk of sexual transmission as "low."

Off topic for a moment - may I suggest that you try to play nicely with others.  You have managed to be rude and condescending to surprising number of people in the two days you have been posting here.

[Kerfluffle]

Regarding the anger issues.  My guess is that a whole lot of people have anger issues associated with this thing but are not in touch with themselves enough to understand that they are angry and just internalize it and externalize it in inappropriate ways.  

As to why your husband may have made the decision to not tell you, let me suggest that you look up "Kohlberg's stages of moral development" at this wikipedia address  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg's_stages_of_moral_development     as it may give you some ideas.

I would strongly suggest that you see a really really good counselor for yourself and discuss your issues because they are valid emotions to have.

[Kerfluffle]

Trinity - I'm not sure what I can tell you that isn't there in black and white for everyine to see at tthe links that I provided.  I would encourage anyone to look at those links for themselves and you can clearly see that HepC is listed .

there are a lot of reasons why someone may think that HepC is not an STD.  It could very well be that they received confusing information from their doctors.  heaven knows that I have.  Or it could be that people believe what they want to believe and want others to believe that as well (group-think).  that's always a danger in online forums, you never know who or what is handing you opinion disguised as information.  Or why.   I think it best to always back up your on-line statements with actual references whicn is why I provided four of them.

And, trinity, I don't know what you are talking about regarding "type of person", yesterday etc.  I'm sorry about your issues but I will no longer engage you directly any more  because that is not productive but rather just correct any misinformation that comes from you for other people.  

[Trinity4]

Read it, don't see it - Those identified with high risk behavior should also be screened for HCV but they do not indicate it as and identified STD as they do HIV.  

Kerfluffle,
From your posts yesterday you are not the type of person I wish to engage in debate with anyway. No further comment is necessary.

[Kerfluffle]

A few other sources:

San Diegio STD Fact Sheet (has HepC listed):
http://www2.sdcounty.ca.gov/hhsa/ServiceDetails.asp?ServiceID=581

San FranciscoCity Clinic STD Fact Sheet (HCV listed under STDs)
http://www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcityclinic/stdbasics/hepatitis.asp

Texas Department of State health Services (HepC listed under STDs)
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/hivstd/info/edmat/hepc.shtm

There are hundreds of other authoritarian references listing HepC as an STD.  So it seems that some health care professionals and even some of us having HepC are misinformed about whether it is ir is not an STD.

One more thing is that a quick review of the literature shows that the newer publications no longer say that it is unlikely to catch HepC sexually they all now say that it is merely less possible to catch it that way than from direct exposure to blood.  

[Kerfluffle]

I think that everything you said I have heard before from health care professionals .  But there seems to be some confusion about it .

Here is a page from the Center For Disease Control  (  http://www.cdc.gov/std/Treatment/2006/hepatitis-c.htm  ).  It is listed there as an STD.  Yet I have heard other "professionals"  say that HepC is not an STD - but there is is in full color at the Center for Disease control.

And isn't this thread about someone who just got HepC from a partner who had it?  I can not deny that I have heard other health care people say the same thing that you have but the Center for Disease Control seems to disagree and that a pretty authoritative source.

They say

[Trinity4]

HepB IS considered an STD - HepC is not.  There is very low probablility of passing on HepC sexually but it can happen and everyone should tell their sexual partner in they have HepC.  However, doctors do not recommend you use any extra precautions if you are involved in a monogamous relationship.  HepC is not on the list of STD's as is HepB.
Trin

[Kerfluffle]

You know the sexual aspect thing is kind of confusing isn't it?  On one hand they emphasize that it isn't catching very much sexually but on the other they continually point out how anal intercourse and/or rough gay sex is very much a risk factor.  Well Hellloooo!  It's contradictory.  It's as if the people who make up those little fact sheets are  too embarrassed about anal sex to consider it when pressed.  "Sex you say?  No that's not a risk factor , not really - don't even need to use condoms with your monogamous partner.  Oh Anal sex! Why didn't you say so !  Go get yourself tested right away!"  

So HepC is a funny disease because is seems to not be an STD for straight vanilla people with monogamous partners (all 12 of them and they're all Mormons) but it seems to very much be an STD for everyone else.  The virus isn't the only thing that mutates around here it seems to me.

[moonbutters]

Yes, from everything I've read and heard it is rare to transmit sexually, but can happen . Most agree on about 3 to 5 % of cases are transmitted this way. That's why I'm thinking (as my doc said) razor sharing or something of that nature. But sex is possible. It takes very little precaution to avoid spreading C. I know from havingn a sister with this for half her life. She was as you mentioned in a monogamous relashonship fpr 5 years prior to death and never transmitted it to him.

What is surprising to me is that I don't have the B as well as I understand it's much easier to transmit. Hmmm.

But , yes you'r right of course. I don't think any of the Hep's are considered an STD . But with the numbers of infected people nationwide and world wide, (staggering , as more are dying from Hep than AIDS)  indicate that this is being spread , and fast. And like AIDS , it's not a "gay or drug user " thing It can happen to anyone. Neither myself , my current husband or my sister are or were either.

But really , I was just wondering if the anger issue had been brought up before . I don't know how all this will work out , but yes , I am angry that I wasn't given a choice to decide for myself.

Hugs to all . Have a great day..:)

moon

[IAmTheWalrus]

You certainly deserve to know. I witheld the information from practically no one. But you have the wrong idea about sexual transmission for Hep C. It is a very rare occurrence by my understanding and experience. CDC does not even recommend condoms for monogamous couples. I was maried for 30 years and had five children with my wife (yeah, we also practiced a lot when we weren't trying to procreate, also :) I found I am positive (likely got it a years before I was married) and she remains negative despite the decades of intimate living and relashionships.

As much as it may benefit research of the disease, it is disengenuous to maintain that it is an STD. There is no scientific basis for this that I have seen.

[moonbutters]

First to desrt... yes  , Hep - C can be transmitted by sexuall contact , piticuarlly if there is blood involved such as a woman during her menstrall cycle. As to the B  , yes it is even more easily transmitted than C . But as I mentioned , I don't have B , only ( LOL @ only C) at this point and am taking vacines.

But to the question of how it is determined by test, this is how is was explained to me by my doc. It is measured by enzime levels. I can't say I completely understand that myself , but it definantly would be correct in my case as I was not in an intimate relashonship for some time prior to this. So the 6 month period would be correct.

To rezin8 .. Thank you for sharing your story. I never thought much about this before because I've always assumed that single people who were occasionally sexually involved just normally got themselves checked . ( dipstick here ) But , I do realize that men tend not to have regular checkups as women do , Pap ect.

My only point here is that this man KNEW he had C and B for almost 10 years , and never said a word about it. That kind of put a damper on my feelings for him . Yes , I am still with him , just taking it day by day . But , this sure isn't the best way to start a marriage .

Ty kerfluffle for understanding . Thats exactly what he did say ..." I was afraid of losing you " Also , "What are the odds you would get this ?" But.... I think I should have at least had the choice to decide for myself , and also to know what precautions I should take. It's not even all about sex. ( I spent several nights at his home prior to that.) But it's also things like sharing razors ect. I remember one day when he was working on his car and cut his finger really bad. I ran to the medicine cabinet dragging him all the way trying to stop the blood . I never gave it a second thought . Who's to say . I don't know how I got this , I just know I do .

Thank you to all who commented,

moon

[rezin8]

Here's a quick story for you...

I went out one night with some friend that were in from out of town.  Of course, being in New Orleans, they want to go to Bourbon Street.  We got home some time around 9am the next day.

When I finally came out of my alcohol induced sleep, my at-the-time-girlfriend-now-wife-who-was-in-med-school-now-a-doctor thought I looked a little yellow.  She asked me to see a doctor.

I go to the doctor a few days later, get some blood drawn, and leave not really thinking anything.  Well the at-the-time-girlfriend-now-wife-who-was-in-med-school-now-a-doctor had the doctor run a hep panel as one of the blood tests.

3 days later she came home and told me that I tested positive for Hep C.  

It's weird, but I've always felt kinda jipped that I didn't have to sit down and explain everything to her.  She went and got tested herself, came back negative for C, but positive for B antibodies.  When she told me that she tested positive for B antibodies, she didn't have the chance to get out of her mouth the words "because I've been vaccinated against it" before I had to run up to a stage, grab a microphone, and try to be funny in front about 300 people.

Anyway, I guess my point is, it's always good to talk about it.  And IMHO, you shouldn't feel bad about being angry with him.  It's not unreasonable for one person to have some sort of animosity towards another person because that person lied/withheld truth from the first person.

Now I think I hold a record for "Most hyphens used in a sentence".  Guinness was going to hold an awards ceremony tomorrow at noon, but I had to decline due to the fact that I'm no longer allowed to partake in their tasty, tasty beverage.

[meakea]

He violated your trust.  Naturally you would be angry.  Now he either works to regain your trust or he doesn't.  I think this is an excellent situation for a counselor to help sort out.

[Kerfluffle]

If AIDS is a sexually transmitted disease then HepC sure is.  It can absolutely be transmitted sexually to a man or to a woman.  Depending on your sexual practices, you can have a very significant degree of risk of catching it sexually.

[Kerfluffle]

I can understand your anger.  It's unfortunate but some men and women would rather worry about what you will do to them (like give up the relationship) instead of warn you about their infectious status.  It's just so selfish and self-serving..  People make all kinds of excuses about their behavior ("oh, it's really not catching from sex" and "Oh, it's not really my responsibility if you don't take precautions") but in the end it's just selfishness.

I hope that you are no longer with this person because you are worth more.  He is likely to do this to someone else.  In some states what he did can be considered assault (I think)  and by filing charges you may help the next person not be another victim.

[orphanedhawk]

Many people have hepC and have no idea how they got it. In my view, how you got it is moot. The question is:what are you going to do NOW!  This is today.

I would urge you to find a way to deal with your anger whether its writing things down, punching a pillow, exercise or meditation.
The liver has been connected to the liver for a long time. I wonder if we all have anger issues?
Good luck,                                   OH