Aa
PMBC - Shown not to be viral reservoirs
http://natap.org/2008/HCV/030508_01.htm
To: DD
Hm. Out of the few studies I have had time, to read .. I didn't think I'd read anything about HOW the HCV mutants got to where they got to and definitive proof on that.. only that they exist. Did I miss something? And I'm not being facetious when I ask that question.
From the bit I've read, it seemed to me that the only scientifically proven conclusion so far... is that existence of strains of HCV RNA in some form exist in body compartments and fluids other than the brain. Nothing scientifically proven about how it got there nor what the implications are .. just that it has been found.
If I missed that part ... I'm open to being pointed to it. I just haven't had time to delve into it more than what I have to date.
So..
HAS it been scientifically PROVEN how these strains got to these other body compartments and fluids?
HAS it been scientifically proven what the implications of this are?
IS there concrete data to support the two questions I have just asked?
If not... we are still at the conjecture stage on those two questions.
If yes...then I am open to correcting my viewpoint once I've read the data that makes enough sense to me to do that.
Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of all your accusations.
I'm not "choosing" to ignore what has been read.
I'm not ignoring what I wish to and choosing to label it as conjecture.
I'm not making active choices about what I choose to understand and what I don't.
This is simply as far as I've gotten on what I have read already. It would be reckless for me to call my own viewpoint anything BUT conjecture and unless I see that there is definitive data supporting the two questions I've asked above....it all remains conjecture to me on THOSE questions - A) how it gets there (does it mutate off? Is it independent from the HCV RNA in the blood? etc etc) .. and B) what the implications are. I accept that it exists.
Your ongoing accusations anger and insult me. I would appreciate it if you would quit painting me as a close-minded fearful ignorant person who is not interested in the truth and would prefer to hide her head in the sand. I would appreciate it .. but I'm not holding my breath that you will stop.
*Footnote. I think it is a very good thing that I did not hold my breath, especially since it appears that the pack is growing.
Hm. Out of the few studies I have had time, to read .. I didn't think I'd read anything about HOW the HCV mutants got to where they got to and definitive proof on that.. only that they exist. Did I miss something? And I'm not being facetious when I ask that question.
From the bit I've read, it seemed to me that the only scientifically proven conclusion so far... is that existence of strains of HCV RNA in some form exist in body compartments and fluids other than the brain. Nothing scientifically proven about how it got there nor what the implications are .. just that it has been found.
If I missed that part ... I'm open to being pointed to it. I just haven't had time to delve into it more than what I have to date.
So..
HAS it been scientifically PROVEN how these strains got to these other body compartments and fluids?
HAS it been scientifically proven what the implications of this are?
IS there concrete data to support the two questions I have just asked?
If not... we are still at the conjecture stage on those two questions.
If yes...then I am open to correcting my viewpoint once I've read the data that makes enough sense to me to do that.
Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of all your accusations.
I'm not "choosing" to ignore what has been read.
I'm not ignoring what I wish to and choosing to label it as conjecture.
I'm not making active choices about what I choose to understand and what I don't.
This is simply as far as I've gotten on what I have read already. It would be reckless for me to call my own viewpoint anything BUT conjecture and unless I see that there is definitive data supporting the two questions I've asked above....it all remains conjecture to me on THOSE questions - A) how it gets there (does it mutate off? Is it independent from the HCV RNA in the blood? etc etc) .. and B) what the implications are. I accept that it exists.
Your ongoing accusations anger and insult me. I would appreciate it if you would quit painting me as a close-minded fearful ignorant person who is not interested in the truth and would prefer to hide her head in the sand. I would appreciate it .. but I'm not holding my breath that you will stop.
*Footnote. I think it is a very good thing that I did not hold my breath, especially since it appears that the pack is growing.
Here we go again. I don't oppose this. I'm learning about this. I posted what I thought was a reasonable thought on this. I asked what I thought were reasonable questions. And I got no direct answers, instead I got told what kind of person I was thought to be. If you go back and read, despite my first "cough" post, every post of mine to DD was reasonable and calm. He attacked me anyway. Now YOU are attacking me using the same sort of reasoning.
I do not oppose this. Neither do I support this. I am simply learning about it. I have even said that my position is based on what I personally have read to date, that I have not had time to read further studies, that I am open to changing my position once I read those further studies. That does not mean that I will AGREE with DD, Willing, MS, or whomever, once I DO read those studies. IS that allowed in this forum? Disagreement? It does not appear so.
If you go back up and read... the very FIRST attack in this thread was by DD himself. I suppose if it's a crony, that is allowed?
I even posted calmly back to DD and stated why I used the word conjecture. And he uses the same frame of reference as me and I asked him very direct questions about that, that he did not answer. And the attacks continue.
I am learning here. And it appears you are only allowed to learn if you follow like a sheep and follow the crowd with no independent thought allowed. As a point of reference, to calm DD down, I used the global warming situation to illustrate a situation where there are very credible people with the same data yet who interpret that data very differently.....really as a plea to allow differing points of view into this discussion without it devolving into attacking people who have different points of view so that discussion can be had. Instead... I got the accusation thrown at me that I am suggesting that the scientists who are responsible for the studies that Willing posted and DD references are simply trying to score political points.
Frankly ...every time I've posted what I thought was a reasonable post .. I've had it twisted and I've been attacked for what it was interpreted to be. THEN the attacks became on me as a person....saying that basically I choose to be ignorant, I choose to be biased, I choose not to learn and that I choose to believe whatever is convenient.
ANYONE who truly knows ME ... would fall on their a$$e$ laughing...and I suppose, knowing the nugget of who I am .. I find such accusations incredibly hurtful and offensive.
This has all started from the assumption that I am here to oppose and attack.
I resent your subtle accusations, EspritLibre. I tried to set things aside .. and I tried to get back to the discussion at hand by posting the comment that started.. "Consider Tuberculosis" .. .and yet the attacks continued. The response to that post was incredible. And it only got worse.
And now... here you are. Continuing this. And yet .. I still do not have the answers to my questions.. that I felt were fair, reasonable, open-minded, demonstrated the desire to seek knowledge and truth .. and yet the only response.. is sidestepping and more attacks. So ... I will post them yet again....and if I do not get a fair and reasonable response to those questions.. without attacks.. I will know that it is not ME who is the one with blinders on. Why would someone.. who isn't interested in seeking knowledge.. ask such questions. I shake my head at your comments. I truly do.
I do not oppose this. Neither do I support this. I am simply learning about it. I have even said that my position is based on what I personally have read to date, that I have not had time to read further studies, that I am open to changing my position once I read those further studies. That does not mean that I will AGREE with DD, Willing, MS, or whomever, once I DO read those studies. IS that allowed in this forum? Disagreement? It does not appear so.
If you go back up and read... the very FIRST attack in this thread was by DD himself. I suppose if it's a crony, that is allowed?
I even posted calmly back to DD and stated why I used the word conjecture. And he uses the same frame of reference as me and I asked him very direct questions about that, that he did not answer. And the attacks continue.
I am learning here. And it appears you are only allowed to learn if you follow like a sheep and follow the crowd with no independent thought allowed. As a point of reference, to calm DD down, I used the global warming situation to illustrate a situation where there are very credible people with the same data yet who interpret that data very differently.....really as a plea to allow differing points of view into this discussion without it devolving into attacking people who have different points of view so that discussion can be had. Instead... I got the accusation thrown at me that I am suggesting that the scientists who are responsible for the studies that Willing posted and DD references are simply trying to score political points.
Frankly ...every time I've posted what I thought was a reasonable post .. I've had it twisted and I've been attacked for what it was interpreted to be. THEN the attacks became on me as a person....saying that basically I choose to be ignorant, I choose to be biased, I choose not to learn and that I choose to believe whatever is convenient.
ANYONE who truly knows ME ... would fall on their a$$e$ laughing...and I suppose, knowing the nugget of who I am .. I find such accusations incredibly hurtful and offensive.
This has all started from the assumption that I am here to oppose and attack.
I resent your subtle accusations, EspritLibre. I tried to set things aside .. and I tried to get back to the discussion at hand by posting the comment that started.. "Consider Tuberculosis" .. .and yet the attacks continued. The response to that post was incredible. And it only got worse.
And now... here you are. Continuing this. And yet .. I still do not have the answers to my questions.. that I felt were fair, reasonable, open-minded, demonstrated the desire to seek knowledge and truth .. and yet the only response.. is sidestepping and more attacks. So ... I will post them yet again....and if I do not get a fair and reasonable response to those questions.. without attacks.. I will know that it is not ME who is the one with blinders on. Why would someone.. who isn't interested in seeking knowledge.. ask such questions. I shake my head at your comments. I truly do.
Whoops... didn't mention 'entertaining', but actually I didn't see that as much as I found part of the thread annoying and sad that interested parties such as ourselves have to wade through such opposition when 'studies' and 'papers relating to occult hep c' are being discussed in a reasonable manner - with DIRECT LINKS to same, I might add. If a person feels uncomfortable reading such discussion or do not want to see what research is out there, why must they attack the messengers and those having open minds wanting to discuss same? I mean.. for chripes-sakes... if opposing parties have STUDIES, PAPERS, LINKS from RESEARCHERS (DUH) showing that what is attempting to be discussed here then by all means I wish they would show it. I'm tired and sick and really have discovered with this thread what members I can skip, and not miss, since my eyeballs feel like their turning inside out - just my take.... lol Yeah.. I'm just one hoping for continued discussions in this very interesting subject. Sheesh... just my humble opinion!
Again, thanks MrLiver, DD, Jmjm, Willing, TnhepGuy and others parties discussing this in a mature manner. THIS IS SO INTERESTING. Sure it be a lot easier to put my head in sand (lol) or hands over ears.. lol ... just hoping this has not stopped anyone from these interesting discussion - - Please don't let nonsense bother you -doesn't take a course in rocket science to see what is going on here and none of the personal attacks are reflected on those sincere in these discussion... just my humble opinionn.. and take for what its worth Be well
Again, thanks MrLiver, DD, Jmjm, Willing, TnhepGuy and others parties discussing this in a mature manner. THIS IS SO INTERESTING. Sure it be a lot easier to put my head in sand (lol) or hands over ears.. lol ... just hoping this has not stopped anyone from these interesting discussion - - Please don't let nonsense bother you -doesn't take a course in rocket science to see what is going on here and none of the personal attacks are reflected on those sincere in these discussion... just my humble opinionn.. and take for what its worth Be well
Not only are you educating, but also entertaining me at the same time. Such a wonderful group of creative people you are!!!!! THANKS Leah
Tho at the end of tx and barely a brain left... and with my eyeballs hurting, taking close to 3 hrs to read this thread- you all done good! very, very interesting!!! bookmarked it, as well as when feeling better (lol) will read the TnHepGuy Healthpage w/links. just too much to take in now. anyone saying this scares newbies or people tx'g is full of malarky (sorry but that's my humble opnion). this is interesting, fascinating reading and hoping more and more research is done, and hopefully find a 'real' cure someday.. but until then this is the best we've got. frankly I'm one of the ones liking to know ... 'cause don't think all stones have been turned and really when feeling better will be watching this!!! I WANT to know and really interested in this research!! ah... DD- I imagine your inbox is full of many commending your 'patience' ...God Bless You! All-in-all just a fricken great thread!! THANKS... to all providing links!!!!!!! Libby
DD: But I do find you saying some pretty inflammatory things directed toward me, early on in the conversation. (which I let roll right off my back). ........ Look at the things you said to ME! I should be very offended.
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I recall nothing of the sort in this thread, however, quote them like I quoted you. THEN I will make my apologies if required.
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I recall nothing of the sort in this thread, however, quote them like I quoted you. THEN I will make my apologies if required.
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