Tylenol vs. Motrin while on TX

[Healed24]

Hello to all. I have a question about what pain killers are the best for us to take while on tx. My doc recommends that I take no more than 2000mg of Tylenol a day, but Tylenol doesn't do a thing for me (and I have more headaces than I can stand). Motrin seems to be much more effective for me, but I wanted to know if any of your docs have said Motrin is ok, and if so how much?

Just a little bit of info when I take Motrin I only take one and I take the generic form. I am 22/48 of treatment. I am 26 years old, Grade 0, stage 0. Had virus for 7 years. I am also having a terrible time on this tx (I have huge tummy problems) and I wanted to know if any of you would have decided to treat with current meds given my information? Also should I just try and continue it as long as I can, or give up now and wait for other drugs?

Also do any of you guys have severe gas, nausea and vomiting while on tx?

Any info would be helpful.
Thanks
Brooke

[LvdByGod]

yes brooke you need to be on the full amount of pegasys and ribaviron the whole time for the best odds of svr clearing...find out why in the heck he reduced your peg??? if it was cause your bloods were too low there are meds for that, so you don't have to reduce vital meds...if becouse of other side effects there are meds for those too.

sorry if i missed something i didn't have time to read all your responses...

hope you can get back on full doses soon!!!

sandi

[cougareyes]

So far sounds like your doctor has your protocol under control. You did clear at wk 12 and your ANC is stabile at a good #. I would get a 24 wk pcr and if clear all is good.
I'm in week 15 and have been home most of the time. I'm going crazy. I don't have the strength to do anything. I'm trying to read more and get away from the boob tube. I'm sure that will be another thing I'll have to withdraw from when I'm finished with this tx.   Good Luck

[jmjm530]

I started tx on a very agressive and individualized protocol including high doses of ribavirn (up to 2000mg.day) and double-dosing peg between weeks 2-4. For this reason, I had weekly PCR's until I cleared at week 6. After that, every two weeks until week 12. My doc wanted them monthly after that but frankly I find waiting for the Heptimax somewhat sressful, so I only have them every 3 months or so now. Last PCR was at week 30 and I was <5.

In terms of your case, I'll try to do the math later or maybe someone with a calculator handy can. But remember, these are simply formulas taken in retrospect and it sounds like your doc has a point -- in other words you did clear with the lower dose and perhaps the rate of viral destruction overrides this formula like some suggest it does with other pre-tx facors. Just a thought.

Yes, it is boring being home most of the time, especially since I lived such a physically active life for the past 58 years. Fortunately, I'm a loner by nature which has helped me some but enough is enough. :) My symptons d'jour usually dictate what I do. If I'm having a "good" day I might go out for a walk and do some shopping but on bad days I just try getting through them. On very bad days when sx's are driving me nuts I'll try and sleep through them. I live in my "head" a lot because that's the only place I find escape from the physical. I started meditating early in tx but got too sick for that and stopped on any regular basis. I may try and do more to get me through the next 15 weeks. When I'm not feeling sorry for myself ;) I try and remember what Nietzche said about "it making me stronger" -- then I look in the mirror and have a good laugh. Actually, you do have to have some sense of humor/absurd about this whole situation or you will go crazy. You also have to understand at all times that it will be over one day, and in my case it's also empowering to know that I can pull the plug at any time if I choose.

-- Jim

[Healed24]

Sorry for the double post but if I read correctly you said you haven't worked since tx began. If you don't mind me asking what do you do all day? I'm asking because I stopped working week 2 and I am so bored I can hardly stand it. Anyway thanks again for your advice it really made me take a step back and look at tx.

Brooke

[Healed24]

Jim I have a question for you. You said your chances of SVR are diminished if you haven't taken 80% of meds 80% of the time. I've been on full dose of riba (1000mg, I weigh 130lbs), and have been on reduced peg since week 2 (135ml). I had my PCR at week 11 and I was <10ml. I haven't had another PCR but I think my doc is considering one at 24weeks (I'm currently on 22/48). Did you have a 24 week PCR? What do you think about doing them at 24weeks? My question is have I been taking 80% of drugs for 80% of time? Also are my chances of SVR lowered because of reduced peg? I asked my doc about chances being reduced and he said if I cleared with 135ml then I should be fine as long as my ANC is low (my ANC dropped from 2000 to 200 after one shot of 180ml). Eventhough I've been on Neuopgen since week 14 my ANC has only reached 900 and said to return to the 180ml might cause my numbers to drop too low again. Sorry for all the extra info, but I want to make sure you have all the necessary info to answer the question. Also my vl prior to tx was 208,000, genotype 1A. Any advice would be helpful.

THANKS
BROOKE

[RobBetz]

# 18 friday night...correct....my bio is a mild 2 ...could bio have been read wrong....I saw that a sign of cirrosis is spider nevi...should i be worried about this knowing my bio is a 2/2...

thx to all....

robert

[cougareyes]

If I remember correctly before tx you weren't exibiting any symptoms. That your tx has been relatively uneventful. Your 12 wk pcr was undetectable. At this point you should be thrilled to death. Your prospects look great regardless of your bx and once svr your liver will continue to repair itself. So all's well. Peace

[jmjm530]

Like I said,I've had spider nevi for over 30 years and that long ago I was a stage 0 or 1, can't really remember. You will also find that all kinds of skin problems flare on tx. Like Coug said, stay positive. It's natural for anyone with hep c to worry about their health and on tx the mind even plays more games. Damn the virus. :)

[rifleman]

Well, you were clear at 12 weeks and are now just pounding away with the peg to make sure it stays gone, so I would think your liver is getting better and not worse.  You must be taking shot 19 this Fri??
DJL

[jmjm530]

I contracted hep c in 1969. I've had very fine spider veins on shoulder and chest since the early 70's if I can remember that far back. It very well could be hep c related. It could not. My current biopsy shows stage 2-3.

-- Jim

[rifleman]

Well, I did law school, and I dealt with hep C.  Law school was a joke compared to dealing with and treating hep C.  You have nothing to worry about.  Get rid of the virus and go on with your life.
Here is a tip for law school.  If you haven't figured out who the class jerk is within 2 weeks, then it must be you.  You'll see what I mean.
DJL

[RobBetz]

hi all,

my bio was a 2/2 on 5/18/05...started tx on 06/17/05..bio said mild fibrosis, "no bridging"...i have noticed a few spider veins on shoulder...very subtle and almost cannot see......should I be worried....I am very fair skinned....thx so much....

Robert

[johnisme]

Hi, just wanted to say that i agree with what jim said. This tx is very serious business. The doc told me that this medicine that is going in to your body is nothing to take lightly. For some the long term sx. that is possible could be worse then waiting for newer tx.

Plus there is the unknown effects that could appear from this medicine years from now. That said, there are some of us that don't have much choice but to roll the dice and hope for the best. If i was younger and had stage 2 or less i would not even consider tx. at this time.

But that is how i feel and i think thats how my doc feels.

Please keep in mind that everyone has to do what they feel is what THEY need to do. Its your life and only you that will live it.

In closing i've had this for over 30 years, i been married for over 26 years and have 2 kids. Neither my wife or kids have this. What ever you or anyone else decides to do i only hope the best for...........John

[jmjm530]

In general, I like to support treatment decisions already made, but you asked a direct question and I have to respect your thoughts behind that. You asked, "if any of you would have decided to treat with current meds given my information? "

Maybe three years ago my answer would have been "maybe" -- but today, with newer, better, less harsh and less potentially damaging drugs hopefully around the corner, my answer is I would have not have treated. And while I don't know of any polls on the subject, my educated guess would be that most heptologists would also take this position.

In your case, however, you're already at week 22/48, almost half way there. On the other hand, you're also having bad side effects. It's a very tough call.

One very important question -- apologies if already answered -- is how effective has the tx been so far? By that I mean, how many PCR's have you had so far, at what week, and what were the results? If you didn't have a two-log drop by week #12, your chances of SVR are greatly diminished, especially with the traditional 48 weeks. Also, I noticed you're on reduced meds. Your chances are also diminished if you haven't taken 80 per cent of the required meds for 80 per cent of the time. The first 12 weeks is especially important here.

I guess where I'm going is that you have to carefully weigh the potential risks versus rewards on any tx decision. In your case, your a stage 0 so the risk of not treating or stopping treating is extremely low especially with newer drugs currently in trial.

You also have to realistically evaluate your chances of SVR given your PCR results and lower meds. The lower you think your chances of SVR are, the less likely I'd be to continue given all your stats.

And then you have to factor in your quality of lif, side effects, some of which can be permament.

Sometimes I think we confuse two things in tx. Our goal-oriented will to succeed/finish what we started, the stigma of "failure" and an objective analysis of what is really going on.

Point here is that "quitting" is not necessarily failure, but can also be viewed as a strategic decision to retreat today when outnumbered only to be stronger to fight tomorrow. All great generals have used strategic retreat to win tough battles.

Again, it's not an easy decision. You really have to step back, look into your own heart, monitor very carefully your side effects, chances for success, etc,  and come up with something you feel very comfortable with inside. Something that will generally please you -- not people here, not your doctor, just you.

On a personal note, I am 58 years old, 1b, stage 2-3, and currently at week 32/48. I'm having a miserable QQL on tx with constant gastro/reflux problems, sinus infections, and skin problems that currently require five light treatments a week just to keep in check. Haven't worked since tx began. If I were a stage 0 or 1, I would have stopped treatment by week 20 in spite of being non-detectible at week 6.

Hopefully, if I read your question right, you won't view this too negatively but as more data to plug into an equation you are now wrestling with.

All the best.


-- Jim
-----------------------------------------------------

Regarding the short-course study Rifleman referred to, I don't have the link handy, but from memory the viral threshold was 600,000 IU/ml, so in that respect you qualify for the shorter 24 weeks of tx. The catch of course is that you'd need a negative week 4 PCR and I also imagine the study was done on full meds, so probably not that relevant to your case, although people have stopped tx early for many reasons and have achieved SVR. No idea what your odds would be however.

###

[friole]

I also have little liver damage and chose to treat.  I don't know if I would of at your age, but at 57 I felt it was imperative.  None the less - regardless if you began only because a doctor told you you had to - you have gone almost half the way and are clear.  With those two factors alone, I would continue.  Brooke, it interrupts your life whenever you do it.  You are going to be just as busy down the road.  If  you have children and are not clear, you will worry about infecting them.    And what if you develop liver damage and need to treat when you want to have children - starting treatment then will delay conception.

Rifleman gives you some good pointers being in your chosen field. The headaches and nausea must be overwhelming to make you think of quitting.  I hope you can resolve that and be able to continue
Kathy

[NYgirl]

Thanks healed that was a great question one I've thought of but forgot about.

I was in an auto accident in '93 and have horrible, horrible headaches sometimes. the ONLY thing that can cure them is if I get enough Ibuprofen into my body BEFORE they explode.

For some reason I thought we had to stick to tylenol and that had me pretty frightened because when one of them come I HAVE to take the ibuprofen or I have to go to the hospital and get loaded full of Demerol.  Being sober now I dont want to do that either!

so thank you very much.  A good question and it seems I'd be ok taking them if need.

[cuteus]

the fact that we are not aware of anyone infected by the hcv in our bodies, does not negate the fact that it is an infectious disease with the potential to be spread. Thank God not by casual contact.
There was a study I read that searched the transmisibility of HCV as compared to HIV. A single ***** by a syringe produced infection of hcv more often than it  did HIV. But HIV was more frequently transmitted by sexual encounters than HCV was. NOt sure what the process used was to determine these results. THese ARE infectious diseases, I would not consider it an insult to acknowledge this fact and use it as part of the consideration for tx.  
IF a person has mild damage but wants an HCV free life, it is a life altering decission as much as choosing to live with the virus and waiting things out, if they so choose.
Every aspect of what HCV is and can be has to be considered. It is a scary disease, though not fast moving.

[cuteus]

this is a stupid filter MH is using, what other word do you use to describe what a syringe does?
a finger gets p r i c k ed! I guess punctured is what is allowed? stupid filter does not know the difference between a verb and an insult!?

[cougareyes]

I was unknowingly infectious for 25 years. During that time had 2 long term monogamous relationships and 2 children. None of which have been infected by me. It is a little insulting to use this to persuade people to go on treatment.
Although probably most don't experience horrible sides and for some the tx can be uneventful, the drugs are still pulsing through your veins. Just as silent as HCV can be so could the after effects of combo treatment. Obviously there is a risk involved either way, it's up to you to decide which is greater.
I felt more than great all the years I had HCV until the last 2 years. You don't have to be disabled on tx for it to be causing damage to your body. Just look at your blood counts, the natural chemistry of your body is being altered; that should speak for itself.
I am a person on tx, I just believe if you have the luxury to wait for something better, do it. Good Luck to everyone on their own personal decision.   Peace

[Healed24]

You guys really made me think about somethings regarding quitting. I'll try and stick around here and post when I feel down or ask questions when I have them. I get the idea that the consensus is to keep going and treat regardless of damage, so I'm going to try and get through it. If I'm falling apart now and I'm 26, I probably wouldn't be able to handle it in 20 years anyway.

Rifleman, Unfortunately I didn't get the 4 week PCR, so the 24 week plan is out for me (but boy would that have been great). My viral load when I started was 208,000 so I wouldn't have qualified anyway. As someone currently in the legal field your post was really helpful to me, because I am terrified of starting law school next year.

Friole, You were right on with your advice of starting tx because I do plan on having children, and the idea of infecting them drives me crazy. I guess there is no time like the present to treat, it just drives me nuts counting the days until I'm finished (it seems like forever).

Cuteus, thanks for your comments, you're really good at this. I hope you stick around here until I finish tx (how selfish of me). Your post really made me think about infecting others which is something I need to consider before I quit tx. By the way my doc prescribed neuopgen when my ANC reached 100 (I don't know why he let it drop that low). After my first shot (180ml) my ANC dropped to 200 and with neupogen its gotten up to 900 (but he said that with my sharp drop in the beginning 180ml is risky). I became undectable (week 11) with 2 shots at 180ml and 9 at 135ml. Can you  please let me know if you think I should press for my doc to increase it since my ANC has increased. As someone who has achieved SVR, your opinion is greatly appreciated. By the way congrats on your SVR, you deserve it.

Thanks to all who answered, I was scared everyone would ignore the post.
Brooke

[GreatBird]

Here's the <a href="http://www.biotech-intelligence.com/html/html/de23abadef48c89fe11300886e9c25db.html">link</a> to that study (at least I think it's the one you are interested in).

http://www.biotech-intelligence.com/html/html/de23abadef48c89fe11300886e9c25db.html

[Forseegood]

This is the NIH Study I was talking about by the NIH


Glucosamine/Chondroitin Benefit Proven

NIH study results show supplements are effective in treating pain of osteoarthritis.

Initial results from the multi-centered Glucosamine/chondroitin Arthritis Intervention Trial (GAIT) conducted by the National Institutes of Health has shown glucosamine and chondroitin to be as effective as Celebrex

[sunspot]

Keep the riba doses at least 5 hours apart. Do what you have to do to keep the pills down. After your first week of tx, you have a syrum level of riba in your blood and adjusting your dose time will not harm that level.
I hope this helps.

Dana

[v eggie dip]

okay thanks, I'll check it out...