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Avatar universal

Very frightened that I may have infected someone i love

I was always under the impression, even a trauma nurse told me, that hepatitis c is spread from Blood to Blood contact.
It's a long, ugly story but a few months ago I did something in a fit of anger.  I won't go into details and I am not usually prone to anger as extreme as this particular night.  My question is, and I have been getting different answers (now that i have a computer) everywhere I search.  I guess I'm coming to you guys last because I  know I will find the TRUTH here and that truly frightens me; that's why I've hesitated to ask for so long.
The most frightening part of this for me is that I love this person, he, at ag 53 had triple by pass surgery last July,, after years of "wildly fluctuating cholesterol". As you know, the liver produces cholesterol and because of his #s fluctuating so wildly from month to month (could not be due to diet, Dr. agreed), he was put on a "Statin" drug.  These drugs work thru the liver and cannot be taken if the patient has any type of liver disease.  He will not be tested for Hep C.  My question, without going into more detail is: can the hepatitis c virus be transmitted from blood to mouth (and then swallowing it) contact?  I've been wanting to ask for so long but am so very fearful of the answer.  His liver enzymes are good,but that's really not an accurate indicator of hepatitis c.  Someone please help me...again I love this person deeply, he's an addict and one night after surgery took ALOT of klonopin and passed out for maybe a minute, literally fell on the floor.  I was terrified.  He then got up (nighttime) saying he needed air. I, alone am not strong physically enough to have kept him in the house and he was all screwed up, all "downed out" and I was afraid he'd pass out outside and not be found and possibly die as the passing out is a sign of heart failure.  I cut myself with a sharp knife and told him if he left, when he came back I would call the police and tell them he cut me and he'd end up in jail.  That still did not stop him from leaving.  (This was after days of his completely abusing his prescription, days of being f...... up beyond belief.)  At my breaking point, and so filled with rage that nothing i could say/do would bring him to his senses,  I wiped some blood from my arm, put it into his mouth and said "there, now you have hepatitis, too".  Of course, at the time it did not at all phase him.  He left, I waited and worried and after hours, he came home.  Never did I believe I really infected him, the "blood to blood" contact was prevalant in my mind.  Then I learned if it enters BLOODSTREAM  of another, they'd aquire it.  I have no idea if ingested blood enters the bloodstream.  What I read tonight on different sites scared me enough to write to you wonderful, educated people.  He cannot live, literally without the "statin" drug he is taking and it's working very well to keep his cholesterol in the normal range.  Please advise.  And if the answer is the one I  fear, please pray for him and me becuse truly i don't think I could live w/myself knowing basically that I hurt him in such a way. I'm going for my hep a and b immunizations tomorrow; my last appt was cancelled..no ride.  I don't care so much about myself as I do him,
without the prescription for klonopin that's gone in a few days, he's a kind, loving man.  We've been together 24 yrs this
month.  I'll wait, I guess to hear from someone.  Thanks so much.  
Best Answer
87972 tn?1322661239
Cindy, HCV patients use things that aren’t always perfectly ‘liver friendly’ all the time. A doctor studies a patient’s history, and decides if the benefits for this particular medicine outweigh the possible risks. So many of us have issues with lipids as a result of metabolic syndrome, for instance. Some of the drugs used to control cholesterol aren’t the best thing for those with liver disease, but it’s prescribed anyway; if the patient succumbs to heart disease due to high cholesterol, his/her liver disease is a moot point, yes?

In regards to Tylenol (acetaminophen), it’s probably the most frequently recommended analgesic for HCV patients. There’s no evidence that it accumulates in the body; so taken as directed in small doses it’s thought to be relatively safe for us. Here’s a page about it:

http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hcsp/articles/Herrera.html

“Acetaminophen use: Contrary to popular belief, acetaminophen (the active ingredient in Tylenol®) is perfectly safe for patients with cirrhosis as long as it is used cautiously. Any person who drinks alcohol regularly should not consume any acetaminophen. For patients with early cirrhosis (CPT class A or B), the use of acetaminophen is safe as long as the recommended dose is not exceeded (1,000 mg per dose, repeated no more often than every 6 hours). Patients with more advanced cirrhosis should take only ½ of the recommended dose. In fact, for patients with cirrhosis, acetaminophen, when used as described, is the preferred medication for the treatment of pain.”

Take care, Cindy—

--Bill
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Avatar universal
Thanks for furthering my education, Bill.  It was probably just heresay.  That's good to know, though as I have a hard time tolerating aspirin, ibuprophen; very sensitive stomach.
You were very kind to copy that quote for me.  I went to my dr. (it's a residency program but eventually an M.D. sees you), got my a and b vaccine and  posted on another "thread" the result of the visit when I gave him the names of 2 Gasterontestinal doctors to refer me to, whoever could see me the soonest.  I used a needle once and sometimes I'm a little slow :) but i called the girl I shared with last evening and she doesnt have hep nor is she a carrier.  That same yr (2005), I got a tattoo from a man in the neighborhood (amateur artist, nice tattoo though) and so did his g.friend.  She has hep c also and never used drugs of any kind, is not in the healthcare profession, etc.  I'm thinking now, he probably didn't sterilize his equipment properly (one would probably need to autoclave them). I still cannot believe what this Dr.yesterday said to me.  Maybe you'll find the thread, I've had no responses yet but (sorry everyone) it wasn't a question actually, just venting. Well, how I got it is neither here  nor there.  It makes sense now, with high fever being a result of the injection that one would take tylenol, maybe there are other reasons.  I'm sure I'll be unindated with info once I get into see the G.I. Dr.  Thank you again for all of your kindness, Bill.  Cindy
Helpful - 0
179856 tn?1333547362
Two tylenols aren't toxic to anyone except an infant perhaps.  Takinbg two tyenols before your shot is common and logical.  What I don't get is why you are that worried though since neither of you are on treatment? You don't know if your husband has hep - likely he could, if he's admitted to using needles once he's most likely used them more than that.  You did not give him hep via a salad - I dont think a vampire could even bite someone and drink their blood and catch it.

My advice to you is that since none of us are doctors in here (although sometimes we think we are) and most of us know mostly about HepC and not addiction and mental illness - that you find a really good qualified therapist and talk to them.  Since there is nothing you can do about your husbands problem(s) that would be what would be best for YOU.  You are all that you can take care of, we are each responsible for our own actions in this world.

Good luck.
Helpful - 0
87972 tn?1322661239
Hi Cindy,

I believe the GI tract presents a hostile environment for virus; the stomach can digest some pretty resilient stuff, eh :o)? I’ve never heard of this occurring, Cindy; it has to pass directly to another person’s blood, to my knowledge. Even then, it’s not all that easy to get; the U.S. CDC tells us that in health care settings:

“…The average risk for infection after a needlestick or cut exposure to HCV infected blood is approximately 1.8%....”

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dhqp/bp_hepatitisc.html

And no, I try not to judge. If you wanted me to comment on how you and your S.O. interact, you would have asked me, I imagine. I try to answer the questions as they’re posed.

And as Trinity said, do your best to enjoy life, given the short time we have here :o)

Take care, and have a great day—

--Bill
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Avatar universal
That's great; your treatments thus far are successful.  And you work for your NEW (congrats!) husband.  All I know is I can't lose this job.  And I'm very good at it,I've had callers call my boss to "praise" me.  The main criteria to do the job is you have to be in recovery from a mental illlness.  I do see a Psychiatrist at our town's Counseling Center every 3 months, have a therapist and an Intensive Case Manager (all she really does is take me to Drs. appts., maybe grocery shopping as we have no car.  I'm really happy with this man I live with, like I said he's good to me, has a heart of gold, very kind...and I think those couple days of the month when I lay awake all night to see if he's breathing, sleeping w/food in  his mouth, etc...well, they take alot out of me and alot from our relationship.  He's 54 but unfortunately one doesn't "grow out of addiction".  there's lots of days I'm really depressed and yeah, there may be new depression meds out there but if you notice on tv commercials for Cymbalta, for instance, they warn, tell your Dr.if you have liver disease.
This is interesting, I do get "updates' from this site mailed to me daily, threads I guess you'd call them and one's from a guy starting tx and asking what to expect.  Someone told him to take tylenol before the shot.  Did you ever hear of that?  I thought tylenol was toxic for the liver.  Gotta go and find out where I can "load" a debit card so I can pay for Norton Internet Security, my trial runs out in 6 days and get ready (although I'm very fatigued) for this appt. for my vaccinations.  I'm really happy to hear  you're doing so well!!!  Cindy
Helpful - 0
1225178 tn?1318980604
One day it will occur to you that you aren't responsible for what he does. He is. Right now you're stuck in the position of the enabler. I was there for 21 years too long, and while stuck there it is hard to imagine life any other way. I wouldn't be surprised if your depression is because of this relationship. Your brain tries to keep you from "feeling" so you can survive, and that depresses the production of neurotransmitters, which in turn causes clinical depression. I wish you could find a local support group. I went to the county mental health center and they helped me a lot. I don't think I would have ever gotten free without them.

As to my treatment. My blood-work came back with lots of stuff lower than normal last time... makes me feel pretty weak some days. I get checked again next week. I'm still working 4 days a week. I had to cut one day because my job takes a lot of concentration, and I was missing important things on the third day after my shot. But I work for my new husband, and he's a nice boss.

Hang in there!
Diane
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Avatar universal
Hi Diane, thanks for sharing  your experience with your ex-husband.  Not only as someone who loves him, but as a human being, I think I owe it to him and myself to tell his Dr. and every month I threaten to.  He's on a medication to regulate his heartbeat...imagine the effects of a benzo taken in large quantities on heart rate and respiration.  I threaten to get a PFA also, (like the boy who cried wolf) but never do it as he has bad back problems, torn rotator cuff and is on so many meds for his heart.  His Dr. declared him permanently disabled and his 1st disability claim was denied,now he must wait 9 mos. to go b4 an Administrative SocialSecurity Law Judge...if he's denied by the Judge that's the end of the road. I can't kick him out/have him "removed" with no money to live on.  He, also would be very mad at me if the Dr. suddenly "cut"him.  He'd know I called.  But by the same token, i feel it's my responsibility since 1) taking so many can harm him physically 2) he doesn't stay home when he has them and could be arrested for (at the least) "public intoxication".
     There's a Very Nice Man who works for the organization I do, not in the same capacity and he's told me that should I receive a distressing phone call, I can always call him or my boss to talk it out.  I was through a very severe (could not get off the couch, let the bank take our home with only 3 yrs left on the mortgage, in foreclosure, my partner's only child died and our best friend (dog) of 17 yrs had to be put to sleep, I had also made a very serious suicide attempt.../all of this happened w/in a year) depression in the mid 2000s and honestly, my Psychiatrist had me on all sorts of anti depressants...nothing worked.  Finally, suffering insomnia, at 4;00 on am, I decided to go out and look for Saint Ann's Basillica church...and got a kitten and made a friend across the street.  I'd go to church; taking my kitten (like a little girl :)  ) everyday and the depression subsided and for  a while I was like the "happiest person in the world".  Maybe there are new depression drugs out now.  Oh, how these hep c treatment side efffects scare the heck out of me. It's outrageous how debilitating they are to some people.  I wish you much success.  Will you keep me posted on how you're doing?  You must go for bloodwork frequently, correct?  Are your numbers changing?  I'll keep you in my prayers, Diane.  Thanks for sharing something so personal.
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Avatar universal
Dave,
Thank you for your post.  I'm not using at all, just taking my prescriptions (as prescribed) for depression and anxiety.  I don't abuse them.  And he's doing, well we're both doing a million times better than when we were both in active addiction...that was hell on earth.
If he'd just stop abusing the drug I mentioned in my original post...so Iguess he is in active addiction.  Either way, I just pray that this month will be different.  I know my subtype is easier to treat, however most recent bloodwork reported my viral load at over 7 million...that really scares me.  I couldnlt get a ride to last month's appt so today, actually I'm going for the hep a and b vaccines.  I have a GI doctor chosen so i will today give my primary care m.d. his name and ask to be referred (insurance requirement).  So, I imagine it'll be a few months b/4 I get the GI app't. as I'm new patient and he's a specialist.  That may be best.  Although I don't post here on a regular basis (I'm sure while undergoing tx I will be), everyone has always been so kind to me, yourself included and I thank you.  But as I was saying, I'd rather start treatment when the weather is cooler, this summer heat  really gets to me and I'd hate to suffer, if I do, the ill effects of the interferon/r.....(can't spell it) in this heat.  Are you undergoing treatment presently?  If so, i wish you much luck and success!cindy
Helpful - 0
1225178 tn?1318980604
I just wanted to say that I feel for your situation. I was married to a man who was addicted to Ritalin, and would steal my son's pills that he needed for school, as well as having 3 different doctors to get his own pills from. I finally wound up telling his doctors. Boy was he mad! Life was horrible back then.

I'm out of his life now, and after getting away for a while, I realized that I didn't love him like I thought I did. I think I was addicted to the adrenalin that living with him caused my body to produce.

As for that phone job... I'm on shot #9 tomorrow night, and I think I could do it any day except for the first 24 hours after the shot. It's just really hard to tell how you will do based on how somebody else does though. Plus, one of the side effects is depression, and with all the stress you live with now, you need to pay attention to your moods and get some anti-depressants ASAP if those calls start to affect you negatively.

I hope your life smooths out soon. Take care of yourself.
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Avatar universal
Thank you also both for responding so quickly and for your reassurance.  I should have c ome here first with my concern; the only reason I didn't is because i knew I would find the truth here as you are all so well-informed and educated.  And, of course, kind and considerate.   No doubt I have a problem with anger, it's not a daily thing, I'm normally not an angry person.  I keep quotes from books/internet that I really like and am going to compile them into a journal that I will give my neice when she gets older.  One, that of course i can't find, advises one to remain "unruffled" during an argument/disagreement and that will always give one the upper hand.  I do see a therapist and promise to tell her I want to concentrate on my anger problem.  What i did that night, I am so ashamed of, whether or  not I gave him the virus.  My all of you reassuring me that I didn't...right now my gratitude is as big as the world.  God bless!!  And thank you again, Cindt
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Avatar universal
Hi Bill!  It was nice to hear from you (again)...you're such a great guy.  Thank you for easing my mind.. I thought for sure I had infected him.  To my knowledge, he never shared works.
I only used a "needle" once and it was someone elses and they injected me as I'm terrified of shots and needles, anything llike that makes me feel like I'm gonna pass out.  After the incident I wrote about, i asked him to get a script for bloodwork to see if he has hep c and he refused; he's very stubborn and I can't change his mind.  Well, that's on him, I guess although I wish he would.  Yes,, I did read a few months ago that some Doctors, depending on the situation do prescribe statins to treat hepatitis c.  That's very interesting, I'd be thrilled to just have to take a pill.  In case you didn't read my response to Trinity who is also wonderful...you people are so smart, so educated; I trust you more than I'd trust info from a Doctor.  There's a poem about success...I'll find it one day and post it here if I may, but again thank you "to have made one life breathe easier, this is to have succeeded"...and from both personal experience and what I read on these posts, you make lives breathe easier everyday.  May God grant you abundant blessings.  And thank you, all of you for not judging me for my actions that night.  I was quite embarassed and ashamed to post such a question that showed a part of me I am not at all proud of.  Have a great day...cindy...and a HUGE thank you for easing my mind!! :)
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Avatar universal
sorry, yes things have settled down.  He calls in so early for refills that his (Iwon't say the word I'm thinking) is now prescribing 4 klonopin a day rather than 3!! Unbelievable, you'd think he'd see the real picture.  Things are REAL  BAD, no matter how many times he promises this month will be different, he'll "let me hold them", for almost a week every month.  He knows I don't need this added stress.  I'm really frightened about the hep c treatment, and i have other health problems as well.  Can i ask your advice?  I come to this forum often, as I receive "daily updates" in my email.  I've read recently about a man starting treatment, how he was frightened; someone responded they had no symptoms till 7 hrs after the shot (then high fever, vomitting).  I'm on SSD and was blessed to find a job, from home maybe 5 days/month (not the same days each week, the days vary).  I'm going today for the hep a and b vaccines and to give the Dr. the name of a GI to refer me to. So I imagine my tx won't start for a few months (it takes so long for a new pt to get an appt w/any kind of Dr. around here).  The work I do is to take phone calls (i punch in some code #s and my phone rings for calls to an 800#) from lonely people, people who just want to talk, sometimes crisis situations, sometimes from people who are contemplating suicide.  I HAVE to be in an upbeat (or pretend to) mood while speaking with these people.  Our schedule is made 3 mos in advance.  Would you, for example, take the shot on a Sunday night and tell my boss that for the next 6 mos or so I can't work Mon/ Tues?  I'd be hard pressed to live without this income; the last thing I want to do is lose the job and I like what I do.  would you tell the truth, that I have hep c (I'm afraid of the stigma) and will be undergoing treatment?  Whatever I do, I've gotta do it soon as within the next month or so the new 3 month schedules will be coming out.  I'm just afraid to say nothing and be so sick that i can barely answer the phone,let alone put my "sing-song' voice on! :)  Thank you again, Trinity, for all the wonderful answers you've given me.  C
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Avatar universal
You're welcome cindy.  Just be happy kiddo, life is short.

Trin
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Avatar universal
Hi!  I thank you for writing me back so quickly.  Ijust woke up; couldn't stay in bed cause I had to get to this site.  You're aware that he swallowed the blood, right?   Obviously you are, you made the reference to the "salad dressing".  As I wrote, I didn't bellieve he could become infected that way, after hearing all the "blood to blood" talk, but then started thinking, "well, how are nutrients from food absorbed into our bodies".  Like i said, this was my  last stop after looking in search engine after search engine.  I knew that on this forum, I would be given an educated and correct answer; that's why it took me (months literally) to ask my question here.  I never expected these answers; truly i thought i had infected him.
**I hope all of you are reading this..I thank you from the bottom of my heart.  "TO HAVE MADE ONE LIFE BREATHE EASIER, THIS IS TO HAVE SUCCEEDED!!"  I can always count on you Trinity, among some others, to respond to my questions and concerns.  You have no idea how much that means to me.  cindy
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Avatar universal
Tashka is offering you good advice. Hopefully you will take it in a positive way and do something to help yourself.

Are you going to get treatment? Since you have geno 2b you have such a good chance of clearing the disease.

It's never too late to change your life until we are gone for good. Life can be good although we all have our ups and downs, it's rarely a good experience when stuck in destructive relationships and addictions. Those things can make it hard to remember the experience we are missing,
Take care-Dave
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Avatar universal
No Cindy, there is no way he could get infected through the interaction that you describe. Hepatitis C virus has to enter another person's bloodstream to get him infected.

However situation that you describe is very disturbing. Even considering you were angry, what you did is unacceptable. You had intention to infect your partner (fortunately you didn't). I think, you need to work on your anger. I can only imagine what you might do next time in anger-what if you will take a syringe and inject your blood into him? That is a sure way for him to get a disease.

Rage makes us insane, and we can say and do crazy things that we later bitterly regret. Please, learn to exercise self-control. All your cuts have to be immediately covered with a bandage and whatever has cut you has to be desinfected. And no matter what another person does, you and only you should be in control of your behavior.
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87972 tn?1322661239
Wow. Okay, first of all, I don’t believe there’s any evidence that HCV can be transmitted in the scenario you describe. However, you said this guy is an addict? If he shared works as part of his addiction, there’s a very good chance he was infected previously as a result of his lifestyle.

If he believes he’s been infected at some point in his life, and chooses to be tested, that’s his business; and that’s pretty much the end of the story.

HCV patients are occasionally prescribed statins; as always, the doctor examines the evidence, and makes an appropriate decision.

Good luck and take care, Cindy—

--Bill
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Avatar universal
Wow, that was a wild and crazy night huh?

In my opinion no.  You can eat a salad with hepc dressing on it and not contract hepc.  In no way is the virus transmitted through ingestion.  If he had open sores in his mouth, wounds or gashes on his lips then it is possible but not probable.

I hope things have settled down Cindy.  That's kind of crazy stuff for the both of you to endure in a committed relationship, especially with the health problems to boot.

Others will chime in but I stick with my opinion of no.

Trinity
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