degenerative bone disease...how so?

[fresnoborn]

what does degenerative bone disease have to do with hep c? is it something that is caused by the hep c? does it eventually cripple you? does it ever go away? if not how is it cared for or is there something you can take to stop it from continuing? what are the symptoms of degenerative bone disease?

[couldn't think of a nickname]

they are totally unrelated. Any problem with discs, etc., is considered DDD. The connection is if you also have myofascial trigger points, which may or may not be releated to that. Viruses perpetuate trigger points, if that is part of your pain issue, regardless of where they actually came from, as viruses are myotoxic in nature. That subject is quite complex, but it is my opinion that my trigger points are perpetuated by the virus, and my primary doc agrees with my view. My source for that view is in the medical texts of Travell and Simons.

My point was, that the muscles around your cervical spine may be where your pain is coming from. Some people have painful arthritis, some don't. It is the TrP issue that could make the difference.

If you wanted to look into that area, I would suggest The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook by Claire Davies. He is easy to read and understand, and shows you how to help yourself, and I got the book for about $14 on Amazon a while back.

Muscle aches and pains aside from your issue are common with HCV, and I believe that the myofascial trigger points are a big reason. I don't believe that many in the field of hepatology see this connection, as they are 2 different sciences, but I could be wrong.

[cuteus]

it seems many with a chronic infection that is caused by a virus or bacteria, can develop arthritis like symptoms. In fact, it was a rheumy who insisted that I did not have "classic RA symptoms" that went the HCV testing route and found mine. It might be that in some very susceptible individuals, the continuosly active immune system causes inflamation in tissue, and also might affect bone density. Their natural interferon, though in much lesser quantities than during tx, cause many of the same things we experience during tx.  I suffered from increased dental deterioration and loss of jaw bone starting many years ago.  The fact that these got a little worse during tx, feeds my theory that my interferon was causing many of my problems.
You won't see too many studies on bone disease and hep c, because they seem to be concentrating in tx studies and research, so it might be a lot of anecdotal data only.

[fresnoborn]

I looked on the internet regarding osteosclerosis and osteoporosis. I really don't know if I have either of those. I was told that I had RA but when i went to the specialist he told me i was just carrying the gene factor. whatever that means and he examined me and said i had no signs of ra. he said alot of people who have hep c also show ra but that that doesn't necessarily mean i have it. bone spurs i do have c2 c3 that may be whats causing so much pain but the bone doctor here says that bone spurs don't cause such excrutiating pain. i do know that the muscles are definetly spasming constantly. what i'm trying to do is find the problem and fix it so i can get off these pain meds. i know this is not a bone site but i thought maybe i could get some input from all heppers around. thanks to all of you who have responded to my questions i truly appreciate all input and any advice any of you have. laterz

[couldn't think of a nickname]

have you ever tried acupuncture? I forgot to mention that earlier.

[carpedi]

That was really interesting what you said about migraines being triggered by back neck muscles. Last year I tried a yoga class as a stress-reducer. While everyone else was bending and breathing and relaxing, I was getting occular migraines and had to quit the class. I finally figured out that it was the poses where my neck got bent with some slight pressure on it that were the culprits - I just didn't know why until now. Makes sense to me now.

[fresnoborn]

yes i have tried accupuncture twice for a total of 18 months. no relief, it even irritated me some. i have a tenz unit that i use occasionally and that helps some but it only reaches the surface (the muscles) not the inside where the pain comes from. thanks for asking.

[fresnoborn]

thanks for the info. you actually may be right about the trigger points and myofacial stuff. I just want it to go away and I don't want to have to take these other meds for pain. the treatment is enough and then the meds too. if i could just take one pill for pain i would be content but not a narcotic, i have an addictive nature about me. again thanks for the info. do you think that maybe if they cut down the bone spurs the pain would lesson? the protruding disc, i was told by mri person, is not pressing against any nerves but the emg i had proves otherwise. don't really know who to believe anymore. also before when i didn't have the protruding disc on my c5 i still had chronic pain and i feel like the problem is causing the c5 problem, cause it wasn't there before. thanks for all the answers to my questions, i am full of them. if anyone out there has anymore info on bone spurs you can tell me here or email me at ***@****   laterz

[couldn't think of a nickname]

Sounds like you have a good doc. Believe it or not, trigger points can actually cause dental problems too. It is incredible the wide variety of symptoms they can cause. HCV is an inflamatory disease, and toxins do get stored in muscles. As far as bones go, I have not read anything in my course of investigation to see a connection.

I have learned enough about trigger points that I do some simple massage techniques on my wife and myself, especially in the neck and shoulder area. They do help.

I'll give you some examples of things trigger points can do:

Trigger points in the calf have actually caused jaw pain in a few people studied.
Carpel Tunnel Syndrome can actually originate in the Scalenes in the neck.
Dizziness can be caused by TrP's in the trapezius muscle.
In the front of the neck, the Sternocleidomastoid can cause balance problems and visual disturbances, even fainting.
Some migraines can actually come from the posterior neck muscles as well.
TMJ can be caused by TrP's in the traps, temple, and one other muscle.

For all those who are cured, maybe a good, thorough deep tissue massage followed by drinking a lot of water to remove the toxins is needed. After all of that time on the meds, and having the virus, it would probably be beneficial to move those toxins and lymph fluid out.

[fresnoborn]

thanks once again for the info. do you think if they cut back the bone spurs the pain may subside some?

[HCA]

Actually there is an association,and it is most common in Advanced Liver Disease.
Google Hepatitis C osteosclerosis and Hepatitis C osteoporosis.
Does fresnoborn have either of these conditions?
Or just worried about them devoloping?
They may be diagnosed and treated.
They are by no means an inevitable consequence of chronic HVC.
Talk to your doctor-but most of all don't get 'Internet Panic'

[couldn't think of a nickname]

Fresh, it's hard for me to say, but I think we can think of athletes who have had spurs removed, although probably not from there. The ones I think of are heel spurs and stuff like that. Hopefully there is a good doctor near you that specializes in that to help you.

Don't give up looking. I am a big Sixers fan, and I remeber back in the 80's, Andrew Toney complained of pain in his foot. No one could find any problem with it, and he had been to more than 1 doctor. Doug Collins who went through a similar injury, encouraged him to keep searching. Ownership at the time, (who many including me didn't think highly of) tried to force him to play. They tried to paint him as a malingerer. Finally, a good doctor found the problem, he was playing with stress fractures in BOTH feet!
He was never the same player after that, and it is ashame, because he was on his way to a hall of fame career.
He eventually found a doc who could treat him, and hopefully you will too.

John