phosphatidylcholine supplement

[osiag]

Does anyone have any experience with or information on a form of choline call polyphenyl phosphatidylcholine?  Much appreciated.

[dyce]

Jim, redbean icecream, eyecream, noo!!! It's gotta be riba withdrawl. Your in a critical state of mind here, this is not you! Now repeat after me, t-bone steak, smothered in onions, cheeseburger and fries , Deep fried cheese sticks. Vasaline intensive care(UNSCENTED). Sport sun deflecter for the eyes !
Please come out, I know your in there, its not to late!

[can-do-man]

Oh yeah jim, much better for you. Stick to the cream de nut. Don't forget your appointment at the nail salon. Ruby red is always nice.

I think this all started when robert showed you his eye.

[Dale_Ray]

Jim you still shaving those legs with a bushhog and a Massey-Ferguson tractor? :) Dale

[jmjm530]

I think I misspoke yesterday and therefore mislead both of you when I described that little Japanese pastry filled with green tea ice cream I had for dessert. In reality it was a little Japanese pastry filled with red bean ice cream I had for dessert.  It's really important what you guys think of me, so hopefully this new information does not come to late to ressurect my already faltering image since the Creme De Nuit revelations. Probably not a good time to bring up a new eye creme I've been looking at.


-- Jim

[Forseegood]

sure you picked up on my typo, time to enjoy the fact that you are off the meds! ha ha!

[Forseegood]

Ina, I ditto what Jim said...might hold off on the b-12 now, and yeah, they are not "that" elevated right? These readings are at best indications, (in my view) it's really hard to pin=point exactly what's going on with most of this stuff...that's why I do think patient observation is really helpful...who can blame you for being anxious for all that you've been through???? and I'm the last one to say this, as neurotic as I am, and I haven't even treated!! ha ha! but can you try and relax for now, you've done all you that you could possibly do, time to enjoy the fact that youre not off the meds for now and do some things for Ina right now...enjoyable things...I was heartened by the fact that you said youre finally feeling better, I remember from before....and yeah, easier said then done...by my gut tells me that youre the type of person who is really giving of yourself to others...and I think it's just time to pamper yourself for awhile, with all due respect...

Mr. BB: if I were her, I would mention what happened to my friend and see what the doc says, I can't tell you how many times I've heard of patients mentioning things to docs and the docs having a light go on over their heads, ha ha!...also, I'll try and get that name...hope all is well....

[dyce]

Ha can , that jm is on a real roll here, the green tea icecream must have him all amped up. He got me worried too, whats next, sushi puddin.

[Mister beagle bailey]

I agree too that the meds were on can cause test results to be off, even labs make mistakes.

foesee--My wife for years has many symptoms of an under active tyhroid but always tested within the normal range.  Her mother and 3 sisters took meds for their tyhroid problems. She has say, 15 out of 20 of the symptoms and still tested neg.  
What king of dr. finally was able to help her?

Beagle

[jmjm530]

First, I don't believe your b12 is high enough for some of those conditions you listed, but not 100 per cent sure on this.

Second, I don't want to state the obvious but also listed under "raised serum b12" is excess supplementation.

Before you get too nervous, why don't you simply get off the sublingual b12 (and any other b12 or Folate supplementation you're taking) for a month  or so and re-test.

Not as high as yours, but I noticed a *dramatic* increase in b12 from just three b12 shots which I decided to stop taking. You might also want to touch bases with your doctor because it could also be related to the treatment drugs.

For example, I had raised Lipase, I think it was, googled it up and came up with kidney disease of something. My doc and NP explained it was probably due to my salviary glands not excreting enough saliva because of the treatment drugs. I think they were correct. Not saying you should iggnore  the b12 thing, just don't jump to any conclusions, especially in light of all the sublingual b12.

[Forseegood]

Im no expert but i do think I know just a little bit more than the average bear about supplementation, being that I've studied it so dang long...these parameters for a person's vitamin defienciency, etc. are a little on the arbitrary side...you might show a defiency and that can give them a clue that you need more, but I don't think any of this is a definitive science, because some people need more of a vitamin than others,

And some people can utilize a vitamin better then others...I think they can tell more if something registers as very defiecient, etc. but I sure wouldn't worry that a person registered as having a little more than normal because what are the norms? do they apply to everyone uniformly?...I don't think I've explained this properly, ha ha, it's been a long day...

Suffice it to say that I don't think blood testing markers, etc. are an exact science for many things, it's not always so cut and dry...unfortunately...because we are all so different and there are so many variables...I guess that show 'House' has said as much, ha ha

Even with things like thyroid...my girlfriend had all the classic symptoms of someone with hypothyroid, but every test her doctor gave her came back normal...so she went to another doc, same deal...she finally went to some cutting edge endochronologist that she read about, and he just went ahead and gave her meds for it based on her symptoms and they tested out doses...low and behold her symptoms cleared up and she feels great now...

Her particular deficiency did not register on the tests and this doc recognized this and was willing to take chances...I think it's unfortunate that a lot of docs have relied so, so heavily on tests without thinking outside of the box  - and take patient observation a little more seriously as well

...many testing procedures are not as elegant and accurate as they should be all of the time...in my view...I'm sure some people will disagree with this which if fine of course...

[Mister beagle bailey]

Are you saying that excess B12 is a sign of, hepatitis, etc?

Beagle

[can-do-man]

for skin says.............why I oughta...that forseeskin stuff is beginning to stick...you'll hear from my representation!!!!


Would you please hire goof for your representation?

Dab blast it goof where are you when we need you? I know disneyland is closed by now.

[jmjm530]

Interesting on Fibrospect II -- can you tell me what lab does that?
I'm a few weeks behind you and my hgb  is also almost normal and I doubt very much I have your b12 levels nor am I on vit b or folate supplementation. I think it just means your bone marrow is reacting in a healthy way, thank g*d. For some it takes a lot longer. Too bad about the pool because swimming is such a great exercise. I will try again when the riba has time to leave my system. There's always ocean swimming but not very convenient as part of a regular regimen.

[jmjm530]

cdm says: But that link you posted is over 3 years old, might not be to good ideal to show a doctor.
------------------------------------------
Do you know how many years old the study is to do 48 weeks. LOL. The Drusano model is current in the sense that many good hepatologists (including mine) are still quoting it as part of a decision to extend treatment.

[can-do-man]

oh that was to good, bet his face was red. One of us has been hangin around the other to much. Oh the fun we could have.

[jmjm530]

Here's another study that Willing recently posted. Check out the conclusion. http://tinyurl.com/r8jws

cdm says: "and risk a run in your hose"
Now eat your riba and behave :)

[jmjm530]

Found the test. I can see why it might be useful for you, but for me, I'm definitely not FO-F1 so probably wouldn't add much info as I am most def F2-F4.

From their website:


Detect the difference with FIBROSpect II

    * Helps to distinguish no/mild fibrosis (METAVIR F0-F1) from significant fibrosis (METAVIR F2-F4).62
    * Assists in treatment decisions for patients with hepatitis C.

[Mister beagle bailey]

Hi Dale, it's beagle here!  How are you doing tonight?

Beagle

[cuteus]

all the links that willing provided in the thread you mentioned should be printed and brought to him. The rounded figure used in actual studies was 72 wks for slow responders. The 36 wks was a suggestion of minimum amount of time post serum clearance of hcv that we should pursue to increase the chance for svr, it can be more and should be in some cases.
the Berg study mentioned below includes the following"
"The results of this study reported that the relapse rate for all patients who responded to the course of therapy was 23%. There was a slight difference in the relapse rate in patients treated for 48 weeks (26% relapse) vs. 72 weeks (19% relapse). However, a significant difference in relapse rates was found in patients with a LATE VIROLOGIC RESPONSE, defined as HCV RNA greater than 1000 U/L at week 4 or 12, and negative at week 24. In the group that was treated for 48 weeks with a late virological response the relapse rate was 46% or 82% compared to 29% or 44% in patients who were treated for 72 weeks.

The authors concluded that a small but significant number of genotype 1 patients with detectable HCV RNA at week 4 or 12, but who became HCV RNA negative by week 24, would benefit from a longer duration of therapy. There is a larger prospective study underway to confirm these findings."

The following study deals with genotype one who were still detectable in minute amounts at wk 12, originally labeled as negative by a less sensitive PCR. A correlation was found in those still positive and relapsers. THis study recommends extending tx.
http://tinyurl.com/qkgmu

THese others deal with markers that can help determine who will SVR and who will relapse. Not sure if there are available to us.
http://tinyurl.com/j7r4p
http://tinyurl.com/h4ha2

[fishdoc]

dad gum dsl been down all day at home, busy at work.  spent 4 calls on tech support.  last little guy tells me I'm sorry maam, but I can't get it up. ..
now yall got me figured out enough that I can't pass that up even to a stranger on the phone.  I tell him "you might want to be careful how you phrase that in the future"  he kind did the Huh??  I said, well son, you just told me you can't get it up.  He was still hee hawing when he hung up...

[can-do-man]

But that link you posted is over 3 years old, might not be to good ideal to show a doctor.

[can-do-man]

forskin said.........I knew it...youre too cautious of a guy to start knockin back boilermakers at the local sports bar with the rest of the pukes.
---------------------------------------------------------------
And risk a run in his hose, or risking his cream de nut runnin? Gosh he could even break a fingernail. The horror

[jmjm530]

The 36 week thing is a model, not a rule, and IMO other factors need to be taken into consideration regarding tx length. That said, some other studies have recently been posted here that suggest longer treatment for those that don't clear at week 12 and I'm sure others will chime in. In any event, here's where the 36 week extension comes from:
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/JID/journal/issues/v189n6/31190/31190.html

[fresnoborn]

I am on week 41 of a 48 week treatment for geno1b.  I heard some where that I should do 36 weeks after I clear.  Well I didn't clear till week 20 so that means I need to do a total of 56 weeks.  My doc says he has never treated anyone past 48 weeks and doesn't think it is necessary.  I am going to do it anyways.  I have extra meds to cover those weeks.  I asked him if he would drop me as a patient if I went ahead and did those extra weeks and he said he wouldn't if I could find him some info that states I should do 36 weeks AFTER I clear.  Anybody, please, give me somewhere to look on the web to find that info so that I can fax it to him.  I will be seeing him again in 7 weeks.  Thank you so much.  I saw a thread below that talked about this exact subject but the thread had met its max on comments.