smoking and fibrosis

[fresnoborn]

I am new to this site and have been on treatment for 7 weeks. I smoke cigarettes and have stage 2 fibrosis along with my hep c. I read on the internet that smoking is bad for the liver, any comments or suggestions regarding this issue?

[Drugs Sucks]

My HGB is down to 11.6 as of 8/4 and i go for another test tomarrow and i'll find out when i go back for another test then i'll see then i don't see my doc for 3 months around Nov. and see my reg doc this month....

[cuteus]

my blood counts were ok, the wbc was, but the hgb went down to 10.2 and that is when I asked for intervention due to chest pain. I got Procrit around month 3. Anemia can cause depression and weakness, what was your hgb? that is the number you should be tracking. the tx and the anemia can cause a lot of symptoms, don't live with anemia for too long.

[Drugs Sucks]

Buy the time i reach the six month, on this treatment i hopen to be able to do the full year and be done with it, all though my pcr has come down alittle, i think it better then none.. So did ur red & white blood cell come down?? Mine has come down white cell 2.46 and red down to 3.0 and to say sure can get tiered and weak fast.. When i get on the comp i might last a hour before i have to lay down and that bites and i do know that if i do to much around here a few day before my shot, i am layed up in bed for a few days..
Anyway this treatment does have a depression side effect, I found it out Yesterday & last night and today and hopefully it will only be a few days.. All over a 7 yrs old dog i treat my dog like one of my kids and that hurts..
Have A Great Day All

[cuteus]

it looks like you came down close to a 2log drop, so did I. i had a 1.82 drop, so I decided I was a slow responder and started working on going for 18 months of tx. I finally convinced the GI and I finished tx last Nov. as of the 6th mo, post tx pcr, I was still negative. The dr has to be willing to go beyond standard care for people like us, keep that in mind.
here is some past threads and dr's answers:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/hepatitis/archive/61.html
I tried to find the thread where bill1954 upped his riba in order to achieve a negative PCR after a positive 12 wk one and couldn't. apparently, upping the riba temporarilyor switching interferons is some of the ways drs are trying to induce that negative 24 wk PCR. Do what you must, see if you can ask Dr cecil what he would do, I did. hepatitisdoctor.com
gl

[Drugs Sucks]

Hi
Well let me say that the 90 day trial is a 12 weeks on the meds, that what my doc had said before i started the treatment he couldn't really give me a % on if the meds will work or not, so eased my mind by saying 50%..   The doc had told me is, i need to try to start the meds now that my liver will be in cirrous of the liver in a year or maybe 2, so he wanted to do a 90 day to see if my count had come down and it hadn't much..

Hep.C Virus RNA Quat by PCR
my first test3/25/04 of the HCV RNA Quant, PCR 1250000 and less then 50 iu/ml and then 2 line says HCV RNA Quant. PCR 6.10 and that should be less 1.7 logIU/ml that on same paper..

Before i started the meds 5/4/05 PCR 4460000 on 2 line Pcr 6.65 and Up to date 8/4/05 Pcr 47400 on 2 line PCR 5.68... So my doc is looking for at less 44,600 on the PCR and i know it has come down just alittle and the way i look at it,,alittle is better then none at all and just maybe the next 90 days it has dropped like it should.. If it does come down then i will keep going to the end and which that can be LONGER then 12 months

When i started the treatment on 5/9/05 the two weeks i felt so down and feeling bad and stayed in bed with the A/C on and never talked to (Ralf) but i had the meanest headaches ever with the Upset stomach that pepto couldn't fix and the Smell of the Meds when i Sweat that gives the headaches on top of what u already and my wife would get headaches from smelling the meds sweatting out of my skin YUCK YUCK!!!   Going outside in the sun with out sun glasses had a toll on headches  too, didn't matter how long i was out there,once the headaches and weakness came on i was layed up in bed for a few days YUCK. So I had to change the way i do things around here.
Mondays night take shot next morning take my 2(stinky Pills)and again at night a lay around for the next few days by the week end i feel better but i don't over do myself ( Which i have ) get tiered, weak, lite headed..

[cuteus]

I had a Physical therapist tell me that about my herniated disc pain. That it did not look like it should be giving me that much pain and that many people have them without ANY pain. How arrogant! Every person has a different tolerance for pain, and these drs should not be expecting everyone to react the same way to the same injury. How disturbing about this neurologist to tell YOU how bad you should or not feeling. Change, dump him and arm yourself with studies about pain for the next one. There is even books out there about how pain is misunderstood and misjudged continously by providers.
see? even down here you get responses! ;-}

[cuteus]

welcome there, hope you continue well on tx and get the virus cleared. I could not understand about the "90 trail", do you mean the PCR test? and you are still not clear or gotten the 2 log drop they look for? don't worry too much about still been positive if you had a good viral drop. what do the tests actually say, since you have copies.  I was still detectable at my 3 month test but continued until the 24 wk which showed negative.
come back soon

[Drugs Sucks]

Hi I was told i had Hep C back in 1994 and didn't know what to do and the doc says there no meds to treat it..
Anyway I figure i got my Hep c from my Dug use back in 1987 from a friend that was sick and we didn't know how sick till we all watch him die from Hep.C.. And that where i got my needles from, so anyway i ran on the Heavy drugs for about 9 yrs from 1984 to 1993 and i done all types of drugs and been in jail too. Not Proud But still drank up to 2001 Heavy and was seeing the doc over my HepC. After I stop work in Oct. i got on the computer and started to learn about the liver and all the Hep. and that i did......
Did my byopsy in Febuary and i am in stage2 grade 2 with 1% fatty tissue and have Emphazima present on my lung tissue, started the Treatment May 9 2005 On Pegasy and Ribiven and did 90 trail to see if the count will come down like the Doc would like to see it, and it Didn't that much as of aug 18  so i am doing another 90 days to try again and maybe it going to take longer..
I have heard all types of storys while on the treamnt and i didn't like what i heard and I don't like to be sick and the rest of the side effect.. I am here to say that I Do Smoke Medical Marjiuna and it does help to keep the sickness AWAY and help me eat normal to some what and it picked me up for the day,i can say that it help for me while on the treatment and i stopped to see what happens it gotten worse and feeling real down and in bed, NOPE THAT NOT FOR ME. Smoke Away For Me!!!

I get copys of my test to look them over and it alway interesting to see and now while been taking the treatment my white blood and red blood cells r low 3.0 and here i am looking for all info on how to get my W/R Blood cell back up..

I have been clean from Drugs for 13 yrs and 4 yrs Sober, now do to meeting the lady of my life 13 yrs ago that help me Quite the Drugs (That A Story) Next time
Well it time to get off of here getting alittle tiered..
Thx for all the info.

[fresnoborn]

thanks a bunch cuteus, your right! I will look for another doctor and not give up. My pain tolerance is not very high, I even feel the smallest sticker in my finger. I have always been that way, even as a child. Having to put up with this pain for 8 years is uncalled for and these doctors are coldhearted. I have also noticed that since I am Medicare/Medicaid the doctors do not want to do much cause they want to charge an enormous amount of money for a certain thing and MC/Medicaid will only pay what they feel it is worth. thanks for the comforting words. take care

[fresnoborn]

ashamed to say but must, back on the smokes again. i did good for about 3 days and than, bam. not as much but just enough to get me through. i went to see the neurosurgeon today in lubbock and he says my pain doesn't sound like it could be bone spurs that are causing such pain. cried all the way home. i feel so hopeless. like no one can figure out what the hell is trying to take me down. i did notice that crying does aggravate the neck even more. why, i don't know. thanks, just needed to spill my guts to someone instead of showing my emotions to my family. the neurologist did order an mri of the head. i did have one done in 2001 and they found nothing. let's see what goes. laterz

[rifleman]

I had my last smoke about 3 hous before my 1st pegintron injection, over 10 weeks ago.  I too had smoked for about 27 years.  The Hep C tx is good for quitting smoking.
DJL

[jmjm530]

I've had some of the neck/upper resp symptons you describe and ENT's can be a real PITA just running you around in circles, collecting their money and saying goodbye without a diagnosis.:)

They should have shoved a small optical scope up your nose or down your throat to take a peek. If not, ask them to look at your larynx to see if it's swollen etc. Do you get hoarse at all?

Other things to explore are getting an endoscophy (not a bad idea anyway if you have significant fibrosis) to check for GERD (reflux). Some of your symptons, especially difficulty swallowing, could be a combination of reflux and dry throat due to the meds. Also, an MRI of the sinuses might be helpful. I ended up taking a ten day course of Augmentin SR which is chronic -sinusitis specific and helped some of the symptons. There's also something called a Z-Pack that some of our members including Eisbein have had success with. The advantage of the Z-Pack is it's a shorter course (3 day tx). Might try it myself if things get worse.

And yeah, the neck can be affecting a lot of things with referred pain. Seeing a neurologist isn't a bad idea and it's on my list as well. Meanwhile moist heat around the neck (and just over the shoulder) for twenty-minutes, 2x a day might help. Also, some gentle neck stretching exercises or a friendly massage :) and easy on heavy weight lifting if you do that sort of thing. Biotene mouthwash might help with the swallowing as it helps supplement saliva.

As far as the smoking, you're obviously going through a difficult period now, so don't put too much pressure on yourself to stop, but at the same time try not to give up trying. A patch or nicorette gum might help, or simply just smoking a little less each day. But at some point -- like three weeks -- you really want to be down to practically nothing.  Cold turkey can be a b*tch.

-- Jim

[1fairygirl]

Jim,
I am so sorry that you now have to worry about possible lymphoma.  I do so hope that the tests are wrong!!!!  Please let us know what you find out as soon as you can.

To all who want to quit smoking:
This is what worked for both my fiance and myself.  We used the nicotine patches, prescription, so only had to do the copay.  The doctor let us stay on whatever miligram we were on until we felt ready to go lower.  I stayed on the largest patch for about three months and then went down a step.  Along with the patches, we also used the Nicitrol oral inhaler.  It's like having a cigarette to hold and really helped with the psychological addiction.  My fiance used sunflower seeds more than the inhaler.  I used the inhaler for about two months after I had quit all the patches.  This is what worked for us and we have now been non-smokers for over two years with no desire to go back.  I hope this may help any of you to quit, too.  My fiance used to get bronchitis every year and now he doesn't even wheeze!  Good luck to all of you who are trying to get there, too.  Once you decide to and actually do it, you feel like it really wasn't as hard as you had thought and feared or at least as hard as it was all the other tries!!!  : )
Smiles, Sue

[fresnoborn]

Well you are right kicking the tobacco habit is awful. I already took a drag off a cigarette today. My body is throwing a fit. Yes I am on treatment:pegalayted interferon and ribavirin, week 7. Symptoms from treatment are extreme tiredness, I just dose off every once in a while during the day and the muscle pain is uncomfortable. Some depression but more irritability. Sometimes I feel like the meds are changing my whole personality. I'm always bitching and complaining about something and have become obsessed with keeping my personal hygiene. I'm constantly washing my hands and brushing my teeth. I have suffered from severe c1, c2, c3 neck pain and pressure around my nose, ear, and throat. I went to see ear nose and throat specialist and he saw nothing. Now a small bone has started to protrude through the roof of my mouth making it difficult to chew anything not soft. My dentist thinks I might have a compressed vertebrae or some sort of growth growing inside my sinus area. My swallow reflex is now being affected. I go this Monday to Lubbock to see a neuroligist and maybe they can figure this ought. Anyway back to the smoking, maybe if I just take a drag once in a while it will help me to eventually quit all together. Any input on the neck pain thing?

[dodger1]

My doctor told me that non-smokers had a better response to the treatment than smokers.  I quit 3 days before treatment.  It has been over 2 months now and it is so weird because the meds are not making want one because of the dry mouth and throat.  This is about the 10th time I have quit with no success but I feel this time I will because I do not crave one because of the medicition and the chance of beating this stinking virus.  With all the coughing I still do and hacking you would think I still smoked.  The medicine makes you  cough.  Good luck to you and I know you can do it if I can after 27 years of smoking.

[jmjm530]

Freshnoborn...Glad you're giving kioking the habit a try. Are you on treatment? If so, maybe the nicotine withdrawal symptons will meld into the peg and ribavirin symptons and you won't notice as much. In any event, drinking lots of fluid getting some aerobic exercise helps. The first 14 days are the hardest -- the primary physical withdrawal. After that, it's a little physical but more mental. Having a healthy liver should serve as motivation. If things get too rough, you might try that nicotine gum or a patch. The key here is to gradually reduce the nicotine over a 2-3 week period. But cold turkey is fine. That's how I finally kicked it. :)

Landfill...Thanks for kind words and the concern on CTCL. I'm not going to drive myself crazy over until the second biopsy results comes in. But given the first biopsy, and the mecurial nature of CTCL, I'll still have an inconclusive diagnosis and will probably have to keep a watch on things from now on.

In most cases, CTCL stays cutaneous (on the skin) -- can go into remission with tx --  and doesn't go into the lymph nodes or organs. I don't expect it to knock me off treatment, but anything is possible with these meds, hep c and the havoc both potentially  play on the autoimmune system. I'm now at week 25 chugging toward 48 which is only February 1st -- really not that far away!

If I can make it that far, I think I have a decent chance at SVR. Depending on how I feel, I may try for 72-weeks but those will be bonus weeks.

-- Jim

[landfill]

Hi Jim.  Sorry to hear of the possible CTCL.  I had to google it to see what it is.  If that's what it is, I hope it can be treated along with the hepc because it seems to me that you have a good shot at SVR.  I like your posts here because you explain hepc to people who need the info.  Cancer and hepc are similar in a way.  They don't hurt and you feel that you could just ignore them if you wanted to and then treating them is a trip to hell and back.  You'll be in my thoughts. - Bob

[fresnoborn]

Thanks for the words of advice. You are right, it is very difficult to stop. I hope I am one of the successors. Take Care

[fresnoborn]

Thanks for the info. As of this morning I have not smoked a cigarette. Craving is overwhelming at times and I'm eating everything in site. Wish me luck and thanks again for the advice.

[Fisheress]

Funny how this tread came up as I have been trying to get the courage to admit here on the forum that I too am a smoker!  I have cut back tremendously and figure once treatment starts, I will be suffering from nausea and other sides that I won't even want one!  It's the routine of sitting down w/ my coffee in the morning and lighting one (know what I mean?) although now it seems when I do that I put it out and say "why did I light that"?  I have broke the habit of lighting up every time in the car too and do not smoke in my house.

So as you can see, I am very aware of what needs to be done on my part although I am a complete failure when it comes to COLD TURKEY!

Thanks to who ever started this tread, glad it came up.

Fisheress

[jmjm530]

Here's the cannabis link: http://tinyurl.com/avt8s

----------------------------------------

Sorry about your family's problems with COPD.

Sometimes we focus so much on our hep c that we lose sight of other health issues that may in the end be more fatal.

In my family, the big problem with the men has always been heart disease. At 58, I'm the youngest male on my father's side of the family (including uncle's, first cousin's etc.)that has not had a heart attack.

So, for example, when I hear people say Lipitor (statins) are bad for the liver and to NEVER take them, I chuckle a knowing what the odds are in my case of dying from hep c versus heart disease.(Statins usually are contraindicated ON treatment, but probably will start them for the first time after tx with my heptologist's blessing)

But unlike statins, smoking has few benefits and nothing that outweighs its potential harm, both on the liver and the rest of the body.

I found an organization called Smoke Enders very helpful.
http://www.smokenders.com/

If they run things now the way they did 20 years ,I wholehearedly recommend their approach. Without giving away too much, you go to about a dozen meetings with a supportive group of fellow smoking addicts. And each week you smoke a little less while doing a lot of very interesting homework that makes you confront the complex hold smoking actually has on you. Actually, you can smoke in class for the first week or so!

I  probably tried quitting fifty times before smokenders but usually for no more than a week or a month. With smokenders I stayed cigarette free for about a year and a half. At that point addition wasn't the problem, it was just a careless mental attitude.

But smokenders did give me the tools and confidence to stop and after another 50-100 tries, I finally quit and stayed quit for the last twenty years.

Since then, I've read that my journey is not unusual. Many people are under the impression that if you've tried like 100 times to quit smoking (or lose weight, etc.) that means it's futile. You don't have it in you.

Studies have shown the opposite. They've shown a correlation between multiple attempts (and persistence) to quit an addition and final success.

So if you've tried to stop like 100 times and couldn't, maybe you'll be successful the 101st time, or in my case something like the 151st.

-- Jim

[friole]

oops

[friole]

Jim,
Wonderful information.  I could not get into the last link on cannibis - it was the same as the link above.  I guess we will never know for sure, but it certainly doesn't seem to be any good for the liver.  

My mom died of COPD and so did my mother-in-law.  They were terrible deaths and the QOL for the last years of life was awful.  Still our generation smoked/ smokes.  I quit 23 years ago and (probably) have mild COPD.  (I say probably because I didn't want to hassle with the inhalers the doc said would prove whether it was allergy related (treatable) or emphysyma (non reversable)).  My husband also has mild COPD from prior smoking.

Still, all our grown kids smoke, and, most of my friends' grown children smoke too.  They, for the most part, are not even trying to quit.  It is an addiction beyond any other and I don't see any end in sight.  I am actively working on my 4 & 5 year old grandchildren.  Education and reinforcement are really the only answers.

Fresnoborn,
Should you chose to quit now, I wish you much luck in that pursuit. It is harder than going on tx. There are several on this board who made the decision to quit when starting tx - some have succeeded and some have not. I hope you try.
Kathy

[friole]

Jim,
Wonderful information.  I could not get into the last link on cannibis - it was the same as the link above.  I guess we will never know for sure, but it certainly doesn't seem to be any good for the liver.  

My mom died of COPD and so did my mother-in-law.  They were terrible deaths and the QOL for the last years of life was awful.  Still our generation smoked/ smokes.  I quit 23 years ago and (probably) have mild COPD.  (I say probably because I didn't want to hassle with the inhalers the doc said would prove whether it was allergy related (treatable) or emphysyma (non reversable)).  My husband also has mild COPD from prior smoking.

Still, all our grown kids smoke, and, most of my friends' grown children smoke too.  They, for the most part, are not even trying to quit.  It is an addiction beyond any other and I don't see any end in sight.  I am actively working on my 4 & 5 year old grandchildren.  Education and reinforcement are really the only answers.

Fresnoborn,
Should you chose to quit now, I wish you much luck in that pursuit. It is harder than going on tx. There are several on this board who made the decision to quit when starting tx - some have succeeded and some have not. I hope you try.
Kathy