Father, methadone and hep c

[Shan8623]

So... I posted here last year about this time. I'd just found my father's medadone and was freaking out. I respected his privacy as I said there.

However, the last week he has been going in the bathroom and FALLING ASLEEP. Severly. Like, near non-comminucative, and I have to break in the bathroom... so, I figured he was doing methdone in there and something isn't right.

Yesterday I checked where he stored it, which is still there (but has some nail you now must twist to the side to open) ... found a recently used spoon, etc. That same say I saw him slam a cupboard in that room, and looked in the cupboard when he was out. There was an empty methadone bottle hiding in there. The perscription is roughly the same as before, 75 ml daily instead of 80 ml.

OK, so today I spend 10 MINUTES trying to get in the bathroom (one day he told me he woke up in the bathtub - not full or anything) but obviously super dangerous. So, he eventully OPENS THE DOOR.

Thing is, he was holding the needle/spoon in his hand, looked out of it and was sweating... so... yeah.

Not only do I have NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON (besides what I've found and not spoken about -- the methadone bottles, needles, spoon & hep C RNA qualitive test that didn't have much filled out on it -- not listing results or anything), but the methadone is obviously not working or he's suddenly taking it improperly.

How do I approach this now? Obviously I need to do something here, since he's got to the point of showing me what's in his hand he's so out of it. When I saw it I walked away without much comment... but something's gotta give here.

Help help me figure out how to approach this... please.

[getnby]

I take that medication,  methadone.  When used correctly can be very effective it has been for me.  I sure don't need no spoon or measurer....come from a clinic?  from a private doc, gen doc?  I do have chronic HCV and do wonder about damage docs tell me its a very safe effective pain med....safe as in for the liver, safe as possible I guess. good luck      getnby

[BoceprevirGal]

  Hi Sherry, you may want to post this is a new question~
Hydrocodone shouldn't affect your chances of being cured. Just let your Dr know how much you take daily, and then that dosage may have to be adjusted...why? The dosage adjustment would be due to the fact that the Treatment meds may make the Opiate work even stronger, or weaker.
   Also, having an Ultrasound isn't the best way to diagnose "Fatty Liver", as I have noticed misdiagnosis with myself, and several of my friends.
   If I were you I would gather up the courage, and insist on a Liver Biopsy. I put that off myself, for over 20 yrs, but now that they are using Ultrasound for needle placement, (and Ativan for nerves, haha) itis a very simple procedure~

[sherryglynn]

I have has hep c diagnosed since 2003.
My liver enzymes are good but. just got a sonogram and showed fatty liver
The only thing thats narcotic is hydrocodone 7.5mg. I have been on pain meds for 20 years., from a car wreck. I read the other day that opiates
Interfere with hep c virus medication and somehow stops any radication of the virus.  My hep c viral load is  
80 million. Has been high since 2003.  Any body know anything about this
I start tx.in dec. But the more i have read.  I think I will start asap
P

[BoceprevirGal]

Hi @ActingBrandNew, and I just wanted to thank-you, for the effort you put into helping the O.P., in terms of redirecting, and getting another MedHelp friend to help with Shans' prob.  
  I have noticed that one of the main factors in keeping myself out of trouble, is helping other people, so in the words of one of my fav 'old-timers" on this forum, that was freakin fantastic :D
   We can speculate all day on what Shans' dad is doing, and I suppose she could go as far as to look for needle marks on his arms, etc, I jst hope they both get the help they need.
   The tough-love method isn't for everyone, and I dont see anything rly wrong with the OP wanting to take care of her Dad, as addiction is an illness.  But if she is going to try to do that, then she will have to go at it from a less emotional point of view, which would be rly hard, I would think.
   At least he is noddingoff with ice-cream, and not a ciggerette~

[BoceprevirGal]

  Hi Shyrl, thanks for your "two cents", and congrats on managing to stay away from street drugs, for all these years now.
   I am finding out so many of us have managed to do this, which just proves that those negative stats (about it being unlikely that people will be able to quit injecting) are not at all accurate...so many of us Baby Boomers have gotten our lives together, and moved on.
  I still wouldn't want to go to the "Addiction Forum" myself, as I see focusing on street drugs as a "trigger"..we will always be "In Recovery", not "recovered".
   When I was in Tx, all those "using" memories cam up for me, as well.  My tears used to flow (sometimes in restaurants, while I sat waiting for my scrambled eggs, lol) and it was like I was saying the final goodbye, to my Hep C, and that whole chapter of my life, and they were usually joyful and sentimental tears.
  While still on your Tx, dont get too overwhelmed with the past: just stay focused on your "finish-line" :)

[dontworry_behappy1]

You say you tested positive for Hepatitis C about 15 years ago when you were 10.   You say Canada tested everyone and its believed you must have got it from a blood transfusion when you were born.  Did your mother have Hepatitis C too?  Do you have the Chronic hepatitis C or just the Hepatitis C
antibodies? Otherwise, you test positive for Hepatitis C and have cleared the Hepatitis C virus on your own?

You seem very concerned about your father and have no concern about your Hepatitis C.  we want to know about your  Hepatitis C.  You don't know if your father has Hepatitis C?  You seem to be very concerned about your fathers health and he clearly doesn't want you in his business.  You are old enough to be on your own and old enough to ask doctors and get answers about your positive Hepatitis medical records.  

So tell us about your Hepatitis C.  I would like to know what your Genotype is.
What your viral load is.  Have you had a biopsy? When was the last time you went to the doctor.  This is a forum about Hepatitis C and we all would like to know about your hepatitis C.   Honestly, not how your father may have it and your compelling want to know the current status of his health and not your own.  Waiting.  

A Mother

[Dee1956]

I remember you from last year.  I can't believe it has been a year.
How is your status?  I remember you said you have HCV, how is your liver doing?  I assume because you are in your 20's that you are ok but it is never good to assume so I thought I would ask.
I think that other might not have realized that you have HCV so did not understand why you were posting here and may have gotten the wrong idea.
My best to you

[ActingBrandNew]

"I too can only post from my own life experience. . . "

And I totally respect that. We've all experienced things in a different way. It doesn't mean one is right nor wrong and especially not "ill informed" Its all perspective.

Hope you have a wonderful day.

☮ (>‿◠)✌

ABN

[Shyrlgame]

I too can only post from my own life experience. . .

I have no idea though what it's like to shoot up meth,  (my experience is from a time when meth was just new for addicts), but hearing now that it is done, and well, I believe it. . .  In Ontario it is now dispensed at drug stores.  

I totally agree that the drug or method does not matter, help treatment centre detox, or support, meatings.  Anyway I too would be glad to talk of my experience with Shan, I can understand her concern.  I guess I could join the addiction forum too.

I thought that I had totally turned my life around and tried to wipe that part of my crazy life from my memory, but Hep C came up from my past and kicked me in the butt. . . And my "junkie " past all comes crashing back.

Way off topic.

Shyrl

[ActingBrandNew]

Look, the bottom line here isnt WHAT her dad is using...its simply irrelevant. You may agree or disagree with my a$$umption....thats your right. I took exception to you calling my information "ill informed" when like I said, Im speaking from life experience...not some second hand BS. "Ill Imformed" would be me talking about methadone having never been around it...come on lady...Im one of those ex "junkies" that gave Hep C to myself.

Maybe in YOUR life experience with methadone it was different....and therefore your entitled to post about it...to the OP. And if you did...I wouldn't then tell YOU your "ill informed"...I would respect that you are speaking from your OWN experience and let the OP take what she wants while she leaves the rest.

I posted the link to the Living with an Addict forum for her to discuss this thread and even went the extra mile and had someone from the addiction forum with HCV and strong methadone history contact her. Was that "ill informed" to?

Again...I will reiterate...IT IS IRRELEVANT what her dad id using. Say he is shooting methadone....he still needs help.

[Shyrlgame]

I'm finding this thread interesting, and lol, going to chim in. .  . Only to post my own personal experience.
I have been on the meth program at ARF, Toronto, although more than 25 yrs ago,  at that time you had to produce clean urine samples for a period of time, to get "carries" to take home.  So one could A$$UME that that type of procedure would still be in place.   Making it highly likely that "dad" is shooting up meth.  
As well OP sees father meeting with questionable people. . . My addict gut says he's using.  If so, he will get caught and cut off of his supply of meth.  Even more reason to shoot up his meth and obtain through other means.

Many things going on here, yes. Very codependant relationship, and needs to break away from this unhealthy relashonship for both of their sanity.  Alanon or na meetings are def needed.  For sure OP will get better, prob more recent experience in an addiction forum.  

I did find the thread informative, regardless, just had to get my 2 cents in.  
Thanks for all the specs on meth ABN,  as usual a wealth of info!
Shyrl

[asle]

My response is for all those people who may have read this post.
Your responses don't change the fact that both of you suggested the OP's father was injecting another substance other than methadone.
I agree the OP needs to post her queries in a more suitable forum.
I wasn't challenging you, ABN.  I was just pointing out that your information was ill informed. And, BG, I am more interested in the answers being posted having factual basis than the original OP's question.
I'm not the forum police but am concerned with regards to both your responses.
I read this forum avidly, as working with people with chronic illnesses is what I do, as well as treating for mine. And I believe that anyone reading any of my responses who sees a problem with what I am saying, will correct me or guide me to better information. I have experienced some of the senior and more knowledgeable persons on MedHelp being quick to correct me. I would hope you would do the same.

[BoceprevirGal]

Aha, hello and nice to meet you, Asle.
One of the other members had posted that we(the OP and I) should go to the Addiction forum, but I rly havent had any first-hand experience with being addicted to any substance in the Opiate category, and no drugs period, for the last 14 yrs (and loving every minute of it!)
  I had a brief period with Dilaudid (pins and needles) but needless to say, I think it was mostly injecting "bath-salt" type of recipes, some actually with epsom salts included, for that extra rush, lol, that got me my Hep C Badge, now gone~
  But that's not what I came back to say...I came back to say that I do believe that the Original Posters' question should be in a CoDependant Forum, not an Addiction Forum...just sayin :)
  The question being answered shouldn't be, "what's Shans' Dad On?" it should be, "Why is Shan making herself miserable, by living with her Dad?"
   If she is supporting him, then she may need to do the "tough love" thing on him, so he can go to InPatient Rehab, and get his meds straightened out, and his Hep C eradicated.  By supporting him, she is facilitating his illness.
    If he is the one supporting her, then she needs to examine that issue also.  Why would an adult still be living with her papa, and be all in his biznuss?  

[ActingBrandNew]

The commonality of injecting methodone isnt in question here. I gave an opinion to the OP based on my life experience...not some ill attempt at a google search. Could a human inject methadone...of course...if its water soluble...its injectable. My opinion was based on my many years of being an IV drug addict and being around people who shot methadone to no avail. The symptoms of "drowsiness" etc explained by the OP along with the behavior led me to A$$UME that it was something other than the methadone. Could it be something other than heroin or pain pills?...of course...he could have been in the bathroom sleeping with his spoon and syringe.

My information you call "ill informed" was an attempt at helping the OP with her problem. This is a public forum...if you have some information you'd like to share with the OP...by all means do it. But challenging what I said plays no interest in helping the OP solve her issue and perhaps would be better suited for a PM to me.

[asle]

It is more common than both of you seem to know, injecting the takeaways of methadone. The long term effects on skin, veins and other organs of this behaviour is dangerous, but many people don't care. At least they get some high. The process involves boiling the mixture til it is reduced, so therefore concentrating the methadone and the added syrup.
Your information to Shan is ill informed. It's a completely unneccesary worry for someone if you are to persevere in telling them it can't be methadone, it must be heroin or pills.

[EvolverU]

Hi there! I just got a message from my friend ABN, the poster above me, I invite you to post this question in the addiction forum or to PM me or both. (Big Smile To You.) We'll try to figure this out together if you like.

Peace,
Annie

[ActingBrandNew]

A good friend of mine in the addiction forum named "EvolverU" has Hep C and is now clean from methadone. She may be able to help you with your question. Ive sent her a PM so she has a heads up you may contact her. Here is a link to her profile if your interested.

http://www.medhelp.org/personal_pages/user/4810126

Also, here is a link to the Living with and addict forum which may be of use to you.

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Addiction-Living-with-an-Addict/show/1176

Finally, I would like to reiterate what BoceprevirGal said in that you dad is probably using herion...or injecting pain pills....but NOT methodone.

Methadone syrup was never designed for injection. Each millilitre contains 5 mg of methadone hydrochloride, sodium benzoate, ethanol, sorbitol solution, glycerol, caramel and finally, flavour pharmaceutical 503.978/A. These can have the following effects when injected:

Methadone hydrochloride: respiratory depression

Sodium benzoate: Hypersensitivity and allergic reactions. Respiratory reactions have occurred in people susceptible to aspirin-induced asthma.

Ethanol: Central nervous system depression, which can lead to stopping breathing and coma

Sorbitol solution: effects can be similar to a ‘dirty hit’: facial flushing, abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting and sweating. High levels may lead to kidney failure or kidney stones.

Glycerol, caramel and flavour pharmaceutical 503.978/A:
effects unknown.

Some of these ingredients can cause allergic reactions, respiratory reactions, and damage your heart, kidney, veins and liver if injected. Talk to your NSP workers or methadone prescriber about the differences between pure methadone and methadone with additives.

In some cases, methadone is mixed with cordial or fruit juice. Injecting this after it has been in someone’s mouth also means there will be plenty of harmful bacteria entering your bloodstream.

Methadone is not a sterile fluid so blood diseases can arise from injection. A large volume of injected fluid can also cause vein damage, especially if injected quickly. Always go slow and steady.

Injecting methadone will lessen the amount of time it will stay in the body, so withdrawal symptoms will usually come on earlier than usual. Some users state there is no rush from injecting methadone anyway and it is just a needle fixation. In any case, weigh up the high risks of injection carefully against the perceived benefit.

[can-do-man]

Well it seems quite clear sense more then one of us "nicely" suggested the correct forum so she good get the best help she doesn't care. Instead she just wants to hang here and argue.

And yes Boceprevirgal it is ok to talk about it here but I would hope if somebody with Hep C was at the wrong forum the good people there would point to this forum so they could get the best help, you seem to know a lot about addiction, your knowledge might be helpful over there.

[BoceprevirGal]

  Hmmm, well, this is now on the "Social" side of this Forum, so I think it would be okayto chat, if the Mod doesn't object?
  Anyhoo Shan, I wanted to say that I think this may be a good time for you to go get a Qualitative (genotype) or Quantitative (viral load) test, as you mentioned you think you may have the antibodies. Next year a new cure will be ready, and in a couple years, even more new meds, which easily can cure Hep C. Your Arthritis may be an "extra-hepatic" symptom of Hep C~
  As for your Dad injecting using a syringe to measure the methadone...okay, I hadn't thought of that, and it is liquid in a bottle, I understand now.
   Methadone is a drug, and it does make people tired, and people do abuse it, etc. But again, your Dad is meeting people in cars, and these could be dangerous people. And yr Dad could be dangerous, when cornered.
   Stop trying to break the door down, you are violating your Dads boundaries, and the relationship seems just too codependant to me. Definitely don't "enable" him in anyway.
   Many times there will be an addict, and a person that is engrossed in a relationship with the addict, the "enabler", and they do this "dance" together. Unfortunately, the CoDependant (you) tends to get much more sick, from the stress, then The Addict.
   Take care of yourself first~

[rivll]

Is this substance abuse?
---------------------------------------------------
I cannot say it any better than Cando and DWBH already have.
But I feel compelled to repeat to you that this is *not* the correct forum for your questions.

[dontworry_behappy1]

Shan....you want the most help for yourself and your Dad?  Post these questions about drug related addiction on drug related forum.  You need
an expert.  People on this forum aren't drug addiction experts.  Get help
.....your fathers situation sounds like serious.

DWBH

[Shan8623]

I wanted to address one thing before I go to sleep...

This forum is for people with Hep C and either treating or thinking about treating NOT substance abuse........
- This is something I am not sure of, I have seen post about living with hep C as well/problems associated.

Is this substance abuse? Is a week of very strange activity qualified as substance abuse? This is the first week of my life my father has ever appeared to have a side effect from a drug that I can really pick up on. He is also clearly taking this stuff despite the side effects and worry it is causing me (which I believe he would avoid at all costs).

I'm worried it could be related to hepatitis C and liver function, or possible dosage change.

I haven't ever had serious concern over *how* he took the drugs before besides that initial panic last year. I settled that it appeared responsible from what I could see -- besides all the stuff he hides -- he hardly leaves the house. In fact he *runs* the house. I've never seen indication in the past of substance abuse ... Methadone can also be taken for pain relief or depression.

[dontworry_behappy1]

Would you please post this in the addiction forum.  You would get more responses to your concerns.   I'm sure this is painful for you because it's about you Dad but like can-do-man said this forum (even tho you can discuss it) isn't about drug addiction.   Many on the Hepatitis C forum don't even know how to respond to your question.  I'm sure the addiction forum will be able to give, direct and assist you with knowledgeable information.  Your the victim here and seek help for yourself other than on a Hepatitis Community Forum.  
Your dealing with serious drug addiction and finding the most support would be elsewhere.  

DWBH

[Shan8623]

Perhaps tone of voice does not translate well online. To me a polite redirection would be "I'm sorry for what you're doing through. Have you considered posting in ______ section for more insight?"

The response I read translated as pure snark. But, in the spirit of not assuming things, again I'm sorry if it was not how you intended you post to read.