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Avatar universal

Father, methadone and hep c

So... I posted here last year about this time. I'd just found my father's medadone and was freaking out. I respected his privacy as I said there.

However, the last week he has been going in the bathroom and FALLING ASLEEP. Severly. Like, near non-comminucative, and I have to break in the bathroom... so, I figured he was doing methdone in there and something isn't right.

Yesterday I checked where he stored it, which is still there (but has some nail you now must twist to the side to open) ... found a recently used spoon, etc. That same say I saw him slam a cupboard in that room, and looked in the cupboard when he was out. There was an empty methadone bottle hiding in there. The perscription is roughly the same as before, 75 ml daily instead of 80 ml.

OK, so today I spend 10 MINUTES trying to get in the bathroom (one day he told me he woke up in the bathtub - not full or anything) but obviously super dangerous. So, he eventully OPENS THE DOOR.

Thing is, he was holding the needle/spoon in his hand, looked out of it and was sweating... so... yeah.

Not only do I have NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING ON (besides what I've found and not spoken about -- the methadone bottles, needles, spoon & hep C RNA qualitive test that didn't have much filled out on it -- not listing results or anything), but the methadone is obviously not working or he's suddenly taking it improperly.

How do I approach this now? Obviously I need to do something here, since he's got to the point of showing me what's in his hand he's so out of it. When I saw it I walked away without much comment... but something's gotta give here.

Help help me figure out how to approach this... please.
33 Responses
Avatar universal
Ok, and after I walked away it looks like he realised what he was holding. (Actually not a needle!! A syringe) what does he do with THAT?

He proceeded to pull out a punch of dog medication and, it appears if I confront him, he'll say he was giving the dog... something. Obviously the direction he's headed there, since he's left the syringe, spoon and a napkin in plain sight with the dog stuff. The best defense if pretending its nothing to do with him... :(

I cannot believe how badly he doesn't want me to know.

What should I do?

I was speaking to another close family member about how drowsy he is lately and despite that I thought she may have known before, the few hints about his health (why do you think he has a doctor, etc.) fell to pointing in the direction that she had no clue (she said for stress). She is a retired nurse... I think if she knew she'd not act so clueless. She seemed to think he just needed more sleep (he's an insomniac -- always had been?! -- I'm thinking maybe from methadone.) Everything about my dad and his history and stories of stuff are put in question and it just really hurts...
Avatar universal
  Ah, I know this is hard for you, all the secretive stuff, etc.  I can only tell you that if you found his bottle of methadone, then he is taking methadone pills.  Some people go to a methadone clinic, and drink methadone in a cup,(or take pills, like yr Dad) but they never shoot methadone with a spoon and syringe, that would be heroin.
   Your dad wouldn't be in the bathroom, "doing methadone", and he wouldn't be in the bathroom, fixing the dogs medicine...he would just do that out in the open, like in the kitchen, I would think.
   The thing about addiction, is people are going to hide it. Your Dad knows how to get off heroin...with methadone. But some people that do methadone also do heroin.
   If your Dad needed help with his addiction,  I would think he would ask you. People don't usually go to their children, for this kind of help. They don't want to loose face, and they want to remain a good role model. There is alot of denial that takes place.
   If you try to confront your Dad, he may feel cornered, and over-react, with tons of anger. I don't think there is much you can do, Shan. He has to want to get the help himself. It sounds like he has had this problem for years and years now. He has to want to change, himself, not for you.
   If you do find him passed out, over-dosed, then you can call 911~ Last year I believe I advised you to try talking about this at an Alanon Meeting,  and they really helped me, to realize that we don't have to hate the addict in our life, just because we dislike their actions,etc
  
Avatar universal
About it not being methadone. How is that possible? As far as I know, it is... it is liquid, in a bottle marked methadone 1mg/mL. 150 ml, drink 75 mL daily. The bottles last one week, the most recent one is marked with one refill. The last bottle I looked at a year ago was 80 ml drinking 80 ml daily (this makes no sense ... how does it last?) On the previous bottle it also said "witness 5 days per week" ... this bottle does not say this. I live in Canada, if the location makes it any different prescription wise.

He does use a spoon. I and not positive about actual needles involved.I think I misspoke there. Syringe... which I suppose is for getting the correct dosage.

The thing I'm worried about is what else might be going on... sometimes there are phone calls and he goes to meet people in cars close by... which is obviously super sketchy, and I do not know what to do about that aspect. I find it the most worrying.

... I walked downstairs about an hour later tonight. He had an ice cream bucket... he'd fallen asleep and it had melted all over his pants. I notice yesterday he also got ice cream after this... low blood sugar? I don't know what's going on...

Should I confront him? Somehow? I don't know how.

I honestly don't even know if he has hep C... but why else keep some random piece of paper testing for it hidden away?

This is so frustrating. I feel right now like I can't go out at night. I feel like I need to be prepared to break into the bathroom. Which by the way is SO STRESSFUL because I couldn't even get the door open tonight.
Avatar universal
I am not sure why you insist on bringing this to the Hep C forum? Your right it has been over a year and you don't even know if he has Hep C. Maybe you ought to take this to the Addiction: Substance Abuse forum. This forum is for people with Hep C and either treating or thinking about treating NOT substance abuse........
Avatar universal
Well, sorry... I wasn't aware one topic out of place was so offensive. Could a mod move this if they wish to? (Does this forum have mods?) I received a lot of very helpful responses here before so I came back to the same section. I was also when using Google under the impression that some people with hep C do take methadone, and was hoping to gain any sort of insight from them.
Avatar universal
Sometimes I get the feeling that since this is a Hep C forum you just assume we are all past or current junkies and that is what's offensive.

Not all of us have experience with methadone, that is why I suggested the correct forum for you........
Avatar universal
Actually... I don't think that at all. Assuming as much is offensive, and I do not wish to imply anything of the sort. I explained my reasoning for posting here, and I'm sorry if it is not adequate to your standards.

You could have kindly pointed me to the correct area to believed would be best to post.

I may have mentioned it in the other thread I made, but I also have hepatitis C or carry hepatitis C antibodies. Honestly not sure which since I have not looked into it... I was told when I was about 10 and don't remember the details, I've supposedly had it since birth due to a blood transfusion.
Avatar universal
Well I see you still have the same chip on your shoulder that you had a year ago..... Just what part of this was offensive? If you read my prior post that is exactly what I was doing.

" Maybe you ought to take this to the Addiction: Substance Abuse forum. This forum is for people with Hep C and either treating or thinking about treating NOT substance abuse........ "
Avatar universal
Another thing I have is arthritis, and believe me, it's right up there with people assuming only one thing about it (only old people can get it! Hah.) ... I'm well acquainted with misconceptions. However, please don't go looking for them when they don't exist. I'm well aware hepatitis C has many routes of transmission.

Honestly, I posted this here because I was very upset. I wasn't looking around the forum, and I *am* interested in hearing from anyone that takes methadone that also has hepatitis C.
Avatar universal
Perhaps tone of voice does not translate well online. To me a polite redirection would be "I'm sorry for what you're doing through. Have you considered posting in ______ section for more insight?"

The response I read translated as pure snark. But, in the spirit of not assuming things, again I'm sorry if it was not how you intended you post to read.
2059648 tn?1439770265
Would you please post this in the addiction forum.  You would get more responses to your concerns.   I'm sure this is painful for you because it's about you Dad but like can-do-man said this forum (even tho you can discuss it) isn't about drug addiction.   Many on the Hepatitis C forum don't even know how to respond to your question.  I'm sure the addiction forum will be able to give, direct and assist you with knowledgeable information.  Your the victim here and seek help for yourself other than on a Hepatitis Community Forum.  
Your dealing with serious drug addiction and finding the most support would be elsewhere.  

DWBH
Avatar universal
I wanted to address one thing before I go to sleep...

This forum is for people with Hep C and either treating or thinking about treating NOT substance abuse........
- This is something I am not sure of, I have seen post about living with hep C as well/problems associated.

Is this substance abuse? Is a week of very strange activity qualified as substance abuse? This is the first week of my life my father has ever appeared to have a side effect from a drug that I can really pick up on. He is also clearly taking this stuff despite the side effects and worry it is causing me (which I believe he would avoid at all costs).

I'm worried it could be related to hepatitis C and liver function, or possible dosage change.

I haven't ever had serious concern over *how* he took the drugs before besides that initial panic last year. I settled that it appeared responsible from what I could see -- besides all the stuff he hides -- he hardly leaves the house. In fact he *runs* the house. I've never seen indication in the past of substance abuse ... Methadone can also be taken for pain relief or depression.
2059648 tn?1439770265
Shan....you want the most help for yourself and your Dad?  Post these questions about drug related addiction on drug related forum.  You need
an expert.  People on this forum aren't drug addiction experts.  Get help
.....your fathers situation sounds like serious.

DWBH
Avatar universal
Is this substance abuse?
---------------------------------------------------
I cannot say it any better than Cando and DWBH already have.
But I feel compelled to repeat to you that this is *not* the correct forum for your questions.
Avatar universal
  Hmmm, well, this is now on the "Social" side of this Forum, so I think it would be okayto chat, if the Mod doesn't object?
  Anyhoo Shan, I wanted to say that I think this may be a good time for you to go get a Qualitative (genotype) or Quantitative (viral load) test, as you mentioned you think you may have the antibodies. Next year a new cure will be ready, and in a couple years, even more new meds, which easily can cure Hep C. Your Arthritis may be an "extra-hepatic" symptom of Hep C~
  As for your Dad injecting using a syringe to measure the methadone...okay, I hadn't thought of that, and it is liquid in a bottle, I understand now.
   Methadone is a drug, and it does make people tired, and people do abuse it, etc. But again, your Dad is meeting people in cars, and these could be dangerous people. And yr Dad could be dangerous, when cornered.
   Stop trying to break the door down, you are violating your Dads boundaries, and the relationship seems just too codependant to me. Definitely don't "enable" him in anyway.
   Many times there will be an addict, and a person that is engrossed in a relationship with the addict, the "enabler", and they do this "dance" together. Unfortunately, the CoDependant (you) tends to get much more sick, from the stress, then The Addict.
   Take care of yourself first~
Avatar universal
Well it seems quite clear sense more then one of us "nicely" suggested the correct forum so she good get the best help she doesn't care. Instead she just wants to hang here and argue.

And yes Boceprevirgal it is ok to talk about it here but I would hope if somebody with Hep C was at the wrong forum the good people there would point to this forum so they could get the best help, you seem to know a lot about addiction, your knowledge might be helpful over there.
4113881 tn?1415853876
A good friend of mine in the addiction forum named "EvolverU" has Hep C and is now clean from methadone. She may be able to help you with your question. Ive sent her a PM so she has a heads up you may contact her. Here is a link to her profile if your interested.

http://www.medhelp.org/personal_pages/user/4810126

Also, here is a link to the Living with and addict forum which may be of use to you.

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Addiction-Living-with-an-Addict/show/1176

Finally, I would like to reiterate what BoceprevirGal said in that you dad is probably using herion...or injecting pain pills....but NOT methodone.

Methadone syrup was never designed for injection. Each millilitre contains 5 mg of methadone hydrochloride, sodium benzoate, ethanol, sorbitol solution, glycerol, caramel and finally, flavour pharmaceutical 503.978/A. These can have the following effects when injected:

Methadone hydrochloride: respiratory depression

Sodium benzoate: Hypersensitivity and allergic reactions. Respiratory reactions have occurred in people susceptible to aspirin-induced asthma.

Ethanol: Central nervous system depression, which can lead to stopping breathing and coma

Sorbitol solution: effects can be similar to a ‘dirty hit’: facial flushing, abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting and sweating. High levels may lead to kidney failure or kidney stones.

Glycerol, caramel and flavour pharmaceutical 503.978/A:
effects unknown.

Some of these ingredients can cause allergic reactions, respiratory reactions, and damage your heart, kidney, veins and liver if injected. Talk to your NSP workers or methadone prescriber about the differences between pure methadone and methadone with additives.

In some cases, methadone is mixed with cordial or fruit juice. Injecting this after it has been in someone’s mouth also means there will be plenty of harmful bacteria entering your bloodstream.

Methadone is not a sterile fluid so blood diseases can arise from injection. A large volume of injected fluid can also cause vein damage, especially if injected quickly. Always go slow and steady.

Injecting methadone will lessen the amount of time it will stay in the body, so withdrawal symptoms will usually come on earlier than usual. Some users state there is no rush from injecting methadone anyway and it is just a needle fixation. In any case, weigh up the high risks of injection carefully against the perceived benefit.



4810126 tn?1503946335
Hi there! I just got a message from my friend ABN, the poster above me, I invite you to post this question in the addiction forum or to PM me or both. (Big Smile To You.) We'll try to figure this out together if you like.

Peace,
Annie
4950316 tn?1394188185
It is more common than both of you seem to know, injecting the takeaways of methadone. The long term effects on skin, veins and other organs of this behaviour is dangerous, but many people don't care. At least they get some high. The process involves boiling the mixture til it is reduced, so therefore concentrating the methadone and the added syrup.
Your information to Shan is ill informed. It's a completely unneccesary worry for someone if you are to persevere in telling them it can't be methadone, it must be heroin or pills.
4113881 tn?1415853876
The commonality of injecting methodone isnt in question here. I gave an opinion to the OP based on my life experience...not some ill attempt at a google search. Could a human inject methadone...of course...if its water soluble...its injectable. My opinion was based on my many years of being an IV drug addict and being around people who shot methadone to no avail. The symptoms of "drowsiness" etc explained by the OP along with the behavior led me to A$$UME that it was something other than the methadone. Could it be something other than heroin or pain pills?...of course...he could have been in the bathroom sleeping with his spoon and syringe.

My information you call "ill informed" was an attempt at helping the OP with her problem. This is a public forum...if you have some information you'd like to share with the OP...by all means do it. But challenging what I said plays no interest in helping the OP solve her issue and perhaps would be better suited for a PM to me.

Avatar universal
Aha, hello and nice to meet you, Asle.
One of the other members had posted that we(the OP and I) should go to the Addiction forum, but I rly havent had any first-hand experience with being addicted to any substance in the Opiate category, and no drugs period, for the last 14 yrs (and loving every minute of it!)
  I had a brief period with Dilaudid (pins and needles) but needless to say, I think it was mostly injecting "bath-salt" type of recipes, some actually with epsom salts included, for that extra rush, lol, that got me my Hep C Badge, now gone~
  But that's not what I came back to say...I came back to say that I do believe that the Original Posters' question should be in a CoDependant Forum, not an Addiction Forum...just sayin :)
  The question being answered shouldn't be, "what's Shans' Dad On?" it should be, "Why is Shan making herself miserable, by living with her Dad?"
   If she is supporting him, then she may need to do the "tough love" thing on him, so he can go to InPatient Rehab, and get his meds straightened out, and his Hep C eradicated.  By supporting him, she is facilitating his illness.
    If he is the one supporting her, then she needs to examine that issue also.  Why would an adult still be living with her papa, and be all in his biznuss?  
4950316 tn?1394188185
My response is for all those people who may have read this post.
Your responses don't change the fact that both of you suggested the OP's father was injecting another substance other than methadone.
I agree the OP needs to post her queries in a more suitable forum.
I wasn't challenging you, ABN.  I was just pointing out that your information was ill informed. And, BG, I am more interested in the answers being posted having factual basis than the original OP's question.
I'm not the forum police but am concerned with regards to both your responses.
I read this forum avidly, as working with people with chronic illnesses is what I do, as well as treating for mine. And I believe that anyone reading any of my responses who sees a problem with what I am saying, will correct me or guide me to better information. I have experienced some of the senior and more knowledgeable persons on MedHelp being quick to correct me. I would hope you would do the same.





5720485 tn?1373566655
I'm finding this thread interesting, and lol, going to chim in. .  . Only to post my own personal experience.
I have been on the meth program at ARF, Toronto, although more than 25 yrs ago,  at that time you had to produce clean urine samples for a period of time, to get "carries" to take home.  So one could A$$UME that that type of procedure would still be in place.   Making it highly likely that "dad" is shooting up meth.  
As well OP sees father meeting with questionable people. . . My addict gut says he's using.  If so, he will get caught and cut off of his supply of meth.  Even more reason to shoot up his meth and obtain through other means.

Many things going on here, yes. Very codependant relationship, and needs to break away from this unhealthy relashonship for both of their sanity.  Alanon or na meetings are def needed.  For sure OP will get better, prob more recent experience in an addiction forum.  

I did find the thread informative, regardless, just had to get my 2 cents in.  
Thanks for all the specs on meth ABN,  as usual a wealth of info!
Shyrl
4113881 tn?1415853876
Look, the bottom line here isnt WHAT her dad is using...its simply irrelevant. You may agree or disagree with my a$$umption....thats your right. I took exception to you calling my information "ill informed" when like I said, Im speaking from life experience...not some second hand BS. "Ill Imformed" would be me talking about methadone having never been around it...come on lady...Im one of those ex "junkies" that gave Hep C to myself.

Maybe in YOUR life experience with methadone it was different....and therefore your entitled to post about it...to the OP. And if you did...I wouldn't then tell YOU your "ill informed"...I would respect that you are speaking from your OWN experience and let the OP take what she wants while she leaves the rest.

I posted the link to the Living with an Addict forum for her to discuss this thread and even went the extra mile and had someone from the addiction forum with HCV and strong methadone history contact her. Was that "ill informed" to?

Again...I will reiterate...IT IS IRRELEVANT what her dad id using. Say he is shooting methadone....he still needs help.
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