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Herpes Immunoblot test.

Had unprotected oral (received on Aug 13) Symptoms lasted for 4 + months. Had HIV, syphilis, 3 gono/chlam tests, Hep C done...was diagnosed with NGU, and no antibiotic worked for the burning in urethra.

Was on Z-Pac 2grams, 400mg suprax, 1g daily x14 days Cipro, 200mg x14 days Doxy, 2 weeks of 1.5g of Flagyl and 4 pills of Difucan....over the 4 months. If anyone checks my previous posts its has been a giant pain dealing with this.

Well to update I have received my HSV 1 and 2 results. I had the test done 5 days shy of the 16 week mark. (exposure was august 13th, testing was Dec 8th).

Immunoblot IgG HSV1 - Negative.
Immunoblot IgG HSV2 - Negative.

Boy did this take the weight off my chest. What is the accuracy of this test? I think I found a post with Grace stating that its 92-98% accurate. Also I am assuming that testing a few days before the 4 month mark should not invalidate thhe results?
This taught me a lesson what  total lack of judgment and having the "little head" doing the thinking for the big head can get you into.

Any feedback would be welcome, thank you.
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101028 tn?1419603004
honestly I'm not sure what else you think I could possibly add at this point ?

grace
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Avatar universal
Grace,

I was looking over my bloodwork from previous months and this odd thing stood out, does not seem a fluke since the numbers kept going up over time. The LYMPHOCYTE ount keeps increasing, these tests are done ater my exposure.

September - 2.2     Range 1.0-4.8
October -     2.38    Range  1.0 -3.2
March  -       3.29   Range   1.0-3.2         - Out of Range.

It It got higher over time. It can be a sign of a bacterial or viral infection (herpes simplex, mono, EBV, CMV). Im worried obviously. The odd thing is the September cut off was from the ER, the other two were from a private lab and they are lower on the cut off. Every website  I went on stated that its a sign of infection, lukemia or even cancer, but the numbers going up consistently after what I did has me blaming one pathogen a you know.  Heard anything about this????
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Avatar universal
Grace,

Just noticed your 2 last posts. I understand that no test is 100% accurate. But reading studies on HSV POS individuals who seesaw in their results is a bit unerving. I understand that HSV1 is missed 1 out 10 times on tests, having 3 tests done would hopefully cut that risk to nil. If only testing was clear cut.
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Avatar universal
The only thing keeping me sane is the fact that I had 2 immunoblot tests done at 4 and 7 months and a Combined Igg EIA at 6 months. All came back negative, not even low POS or anything. Ive been told, and read, that the immunoblot is more sensetive or a bit more accurate at least than the ELISA.
Guidelines for testing state to test 12-16 weeks or at MOST 6 months after infection. Most people have one test, I had 3. Reading med papers that state there is a grey area of people swinging back and forth between POS and NEG for months is not reasuring.
In the paper I posted there was a male who tested POS for HSV 1 - 22 or so days after assumed infection with ELISA then dropped to NEG for 8 subsequent serological tests (over almost a year), but with WB he consistently tested POS always and NEG on ELISA. The study was done with patients who had clear cut swab POS cultures for HSV 1 or 2.
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101028 tn?1419603004
also the gal who's test results changed so much, those were two completely different tests she had done. quest uses herpeselect and lab corp uses captia. you can't compare those results equally.

grace
Helpful - 0
101028 tn?1419603004
if you took the time to read up on all blood tests we do in medicine, it would be enough to make you start doubting all of medicine I assure you. We do the best we can do with what we have. None of them are fool proof.  

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Avatar universal
So more tests you have the increased likelihood them picking up on infections.  Yes of course lol.  Who would argue that?  Yet when someone here had two "low" positives on IGG and one negative on WB that was the end it all.  Why not tell the person to take another WB test from months from now to be on the safe side?

I see already that there is a person here who tested low positive on IGG, then negative on WB, then months later tested indeterminate on WB.  If WB is the end it all then it should have been negative negative.  

Also on the experts forum there is a lady who had 1.52 HSV II, then two weeks later has a 4.82, then 1.39 about two months later.  

Does that make any sense?  
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101028 tn?1419603004
ottmar...told you before you don't have any reason to retest. the odds of false negatives on multiple tests are incredibly low. The more tests you have, the increased likelihood of them picking up on infections just 1 single test might miss.  

genx7- as I said previously, folks who have had obvious symptoms and have no reason to doubt their results don't come seeking help on the forums which is why it seems so unbalanced as to low positives.  

grace
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Avatar universal
Grace,

Any ideas why orr if the study in the link I posted is correct? Cause that woud cause a few people to get really really nervous.
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Avatar universal
Seems that you can drop out of detectable range for HSV, seems to be more prevalent for HSV1.  But what still shocks me is the 78% that will be detectable for HSV1 when it comes to ELISA. And this is after 6 months.........
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Avatar universal
It's also interesting to see that Herpeselect test was more accurate than the WB during the first 3 months.  For HSV 2 a huge difference.  
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Avatar universal
Seems like there is a whole gray area in testing...............this royally sucks.
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Avatar universal
^^ Wow that is interesting.  It only proves what I have been saying all along.....But of course the "experts" on this forum don't want to believe something like this for some reason.  

It would also explain why this virus is spread so easily and why so many people have it.  How many people get false negatives????? and go on living like they don't have it because of these negatives.  Also, how many low positives can there be????  It seems like every other case is a low positive.  Of course, yes take the WB test.  WB is "unfalliable".  Two low positives and a WB negative, congrats equals a negative.    

There is a person on the experts forum right now who tested negative through various tests for the first 13 weeks.  Apparently he had symptoms throughout this time and on a 34 week elisa test got a low positive for HSV 2.    

And if you go to Herpes forums there are other cases.  
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Avatar universal
Grace,

Found an article from April 2003.
http://journals.lww.com/stdjournal/Fulltext/2003/04000/Time_Course_of_Seroconversion_by_HerpeSelect_ELISA.7.aspx

Basically stating that HerpeSelect ELISA or WB are only good when a person serconverts.

HSV-1
By HerpeSelect: 73% of people seroconvert by 3 months, and 78% by 6 months.
By Western Blot: 72% of people seroconvert by 3 months, and 80% by 6 months.

HSV-2
By HerpeSelect: 93% of people seroconvert by 3 months, and 98% by 6 months.
By Western Blot: 73% of people seroconvert by 3 months, and 100% by 6 months.

This is is for primary infections. This is scary that 32% of people may not either seroconvert by 6 months for HSV1 or at east not be detected by the HerpeSelect test, 20% not detected by WB is not good at all. i thought the 95% rule at 6 month applied for these tests for detection. I Found similar numbers on other med journal/papers. There was a case in this paper for someone who tested NEG for 8 subsequent blood tests for HSV-1 and only tested POS using the WB test never for HerpeSelect ELISA even after over 300 days.

Are these tests that bad, or do our bodies flop back and forth between high detectable Igg titlers and low undetectable numbers?



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Avatar universal
My GP seems to be reluctant to give me Difucan or Nizoral, it might have to be a clinic. I am getting a pelvic Ultrasound this week for the pain and irritation in my groin that I have been having for a month now. Its right above the penis on both sides, burning, inflamed sensation non stop. Started after intercourse with wife a month ago., GP stated that my left groin side is swollen a bit. I jog and bike, she thinks it MIGHT be  hernia, but the penis tip/urethral irritation (feeling aas if something is there) is not hernia related. Testicles seen fine for now, and ejaculations is uncomftable yet still pleasureful.

If it is yeast in my urethra (and the underside of my penis itches like hell sometimes) I think I need a way stronger dose of oral antifungals.
Will keep you updated on what happpens.
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101028 tn?1419603004
unfortunately no they do not.
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Avatar universal
I just hate having to go to a new doc, plus the wait for a urologist s 3 months if I get a referal.  I just cannot believe that this is still lingering from my exposure 7 months ago, even if it is from the pills I took..........ugh. wish they could throw me on meds and just wait it out....yay public health care..........     :-/ Im guessing topical cannesten or monistat do not cure a postatic or urethral yeast infection?
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101028 tn?1419603004
definitely if you are still having symptoms, it's time for another work up.  

fungal infections can be a real booger to get rid of for men and for women :(

grace
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Avatar universal
Grace,

Thanx for the website. Im eating Astro youghurt and others, sometimes Activia, I would also have no idea what bacterial strains the yoghurt has. I do wonder sometimes when taking bacterial pills if they survive the digestive process. I started getting the rash (mostly gone) on my right crease. Found out only when water made it hurt from a shower not realy visible untill i kept poking at it.

I took 4 pills of Difucan 150mg each over a course of 2 weeks, this was with Flagyl.

I am assuming a woman can have a yeast infction and not even know it? I just hope its not anything to do with my prostate...thats a giant pain to treat.
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101028 tn?1419603004
www.culturelle.com   it's a pill you take to keep your "good" bacteria active in your gi tract.  have you ever researched the probiotic you are currently taking to see if the strains in it even are effective and survive digestion to colonize your bowels properly? lots of substandard products out there.  

the rashes you describe do indeed sound like a fungal infection. When they are that bad, typically takes more than just 1 round of medication to treat them :(

gotta admit I'm giggling over the critter imbalance question....lol.  yes your wife's ph can change and she can have yeast or bacteria overgrowth going on. you can try using a condom when you have sex and see if that helps. if it does, you know just something different about her during pregnancy isn't agreeing with you.

grace

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Avatar universal
Grace,

Sorry but waht is "culturelle"? A cream?, pills?

I take the bacteria pills (whatever it is called)  twice dily and try to eat probiotic yoghurt. I know when I was on 5g and 4.8g of amoxicillin and pennicillin for 2 weeks I got horrific skin melting heartburn every night, Im assuming I wiped out a good portion of the good stuff...plus all the other crap I took.  I got a rash on the crease between my crotch and thigh, small, skin peeled off and flaked off a week later, I go to the gym (irritation possibly) and started using sensetive soap just to rule out allergies.
My GP is sort of...inept, I have to go to a clinic to ask for difucan or get a urine test. I had a uranalisys and blood work that tested for:::

Neutrophiles, Lymphocytes, Monocytes, eosinophils, basophils, rdw, wbc, platelets, mpv, hemaglobin, hematocrit, rbc, urate, sTSH, crp, rheumatoid factor, antinuclear AB (ANA) and HLA B27. All other then HLA B27 came back well within normal range.

What would the yeast test be called for urine?  Again grace can a pregant woman have an imbalance of critters in her vagina due to the pregnancy and fluctuating hormones??

Thank you for your help. :-)))
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101028 tn?1419603004
congrats on the final negative test!!  

you could have a yeast issue going on.  you can ask your provider for more diflucan and see if that helps or even try an otc yeast treatment.  do they have culturelle otc there in canada?  A probiotic would help straighten out your "good" flora in your gi tract which should help keep the yeast issue away in your anal area if that's what is going on.  

another urine test and exam to rule out prostatitis and urine infections would be helpful. You'd have to specifically ask for them to test your urine for yeast to see if that is the problem.

grace
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Avatar universal
oe,

I just got my 7+ month Igg Immunoblot test both came in Negative! Thats 3 Igg Tests. 1st at 4 months, 2nd at 6 months (non type specific but IgG still) and the one now. I think Im just gona call off the crotch watch. Never ever am I gona screw arund like this again, not worth it, just stress and anxiety. I still have some symptoms but at least I know its not HSV. I know that some tests may miss 1 out of 10 HSV infections, but the odds of 3 seperate tests missing it would be astronomically low.

One last thing Grace or anyone: I find that if and when I have intercourse with my wife (who is pregnant) I find that a few days after my urethra hurts or burns, as if something is still there, tip of penis burns, penis and the tubes that carry the blood are sore.  Could A pregnant woman give me some bacterial or fungal infection that brewed up due to her pregnancy and changing hormones? I took a dump truck of antibiotics in the first 3-4 months after my exposure so I had to kill everything good and bad inside my body. My anus itches and burns too, no real sorness maybe some redness. Just wondering about what reguar critters can do this.

I had this before, took Difucan for a few days seemed to get better, but I had Flagyl for 2 weeks at the same time. (2 months ago). Its irritating and annoying everytime after sex this happens for weeks.
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Avatar universal
I am convinced I have herpes and I am convinced it is HSV1 which even Anna Wald say there are people with lesions and who will test positive via a PCR but will not show on a western Blot. So go figure. There are people out there who just will not show on the test and with so many people that are a symptomatic and those who have no lesions but pain who really knows. Medicine is a practice not an exact science. There are probabilities and educated guesses. But there are always exceptions.

OttMar - I think your test are pretty conclusive. I just need a little more time and we will see.

Also did anyone here ever get tingling in their mouth I also kissed this person so I am feeling it orally and genitally.
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