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Herpes Simplex 1 Disclosure
Quick background, since that seems to be a typical groundbreaker.
23 - male
HVS-1 on Genitals
Contracted via Oral Sex with Girl I liked in 10th grade.
Didn't realize my situation until recently when I received a general STD screening recently. Don't ask. It involves naiveness and denial.
Proposed issue for discussion: My take on this. Hunker down, it's a long one. That's what she said. ---> Michael Scott
I’ll start by saying that my initial reaction was to freak out. I felt hot, sweaty, and as if someone had ripped my guts out. Probably fairly typical, maybe not the guts part, but whatever. After the initial onslaught of emotions, I started to surf for insight in regards to my new... “plight,” if you will. I ran across many people asking, “What’s the right thing to do, disclose or not, and when?” The proposed situations for these questions ran the gamut, but the answers were always the same, and I have to say, the lack of insight was horribly disappointing. The Internet is full of cliché responses that provide little more insight than what appears to be the obvious surface layer answer to the question of HVS-1 disclosure. I assume if you are reading this, you are either a person that is newly diagnosed and is freaking out, or someone that has been surfing these sites for a while and believes they have an answer that is as solid as a diamond, impenetrably perfect moral reasoning. However, it is easy to say what you know everyone will agree with, because very few people actually think for themselves. Ignorance abounds and it’s easier to just repeat what others say. The simple, easy answer is “Yes, you must always disclose, no matter what. It is your moral obligation and responsibility.” When you say that, do it in a deep voice, as if it were God, or Zeus or something with a big white beard. Santa maybe. But seriously,we need to discuss this issue at a more intelligent level. I desire every opinion, point of view, and feeling there is out there, for everyone’s voice is enlightening in one way or another. So enough fade in, here's my insight:
The numbers show, look at any site; government run, scientific research, or just some random herpes info site, that approximately 70% of the population has HVS-1, regardless of where it may happen to be on their body. This doesn't include HVS-2 for which my argument doesn't necessarily apply because my argument is based on HVS-1 numbers, and probability. However, I can't say that it wouldn’t stand for HVS-2 infected individuals, but nonetheless, I apologize if I have wasted your time. In my argument, I deal with numbers, so some of the situations may sound like a stretch, but that’s because I am only one man, but the argument still holds. If I were to make friendly with 10 girls, on separate nights, and on each night tell them before anything happened that I have HVS1, they would tell me to **** off. You could refute this, but lets not, for the sake of my argument. If then all 10 girls went on to hook up with other guys, the numbers say that 7 out of 10 of them would hook up with someone with HVS-1. The massive majority of the guys wouldn’t know this about themselves or know that cold sores are actually herpes, or care. So this being said, are they better off hooking up with random guys, or someone like me who is going to do everything in his power to minimize the possibility of transmission?? The 7 guys that I refer to here are just as contagious as I am. They are equal to me in contagiousness, which doesn’t seem like a word, but I assure you, is. I looked it up. I could go on, but I assume that there must be a character limit on this thing, and you are probably hurting cranially right now from all the reading.
Please note, I have never said not disclosing is not immoral. It is! I think. Someone will have to first define to me what morality is, and then how they came to the conclusion they did. I will not argue the morality of HVS-1 disclosure. Although, based upon the argument I just made, maybe you could, but I will not venture into those waters. The above argument is very utilitarian, I know. This is not the only way to approach the topic. There are many other points to be made, but remember: A feeling is not something that is based upon logical reasoning. It may be worth stating, but it does not really hold too much weight in the grand scheme of things. What I have presented here is a logical pathway to come to a conclusion about herpes disclosure. I admit, it may be wrong, but that’s why I’m interested in actual insight, not the typical diarrhea that is slung all over the Internet on this subject.
Summary: I argue that a girl hooking up with me once, is statistically safer than if she played the field and hooked up with one random guy.
To deflect some responses I am sure I will get:
If there is a girl I truly care about, and hope to be with for a long time, I will most certainly tell her.
And for any extreme feminists out there, yes, you can reverse the sexes in this argument. I am not sexist, it goes both ways.
23 - male
HVS-1 on Genitals
Contracted via Oral Sex with Girl I liked in 10th grade.
Didn't realize my situation until recently when I received a general STD screening recently. Don't ask. It involves naiveness and denial.
Proposed issue for discussion: My take on this. Hunker down, it's a long one. That's what she said. ---> Michael Scott
I’ll start by saying that my initial reaction was to freak out. I felt hot, sweaty, and as if someone had ripped my guts out. Probably fairly typical, maybe not the guts part, but whatever. After the initial onslaught of emotions, I started to surf for insight in regards to my new... “plight,” if you will. I ran across many people asking, “What’s the right thing to do, disclose or not, and when?” The proposed situations for these questions ran the gamut, but the answers were always the same, and I have to say, the lack of insight was horribly disappointing. The Internet is full of cliché responses that provide little more insight than what appears to be the obvious surface layer answer to the question of HVS-1 disclosure. I assume if you are reading this, you are either a person that is newly diagnosed and is freaking out, or someone that has been surfing these sites for a while and believes they have an answer that is as solid as a diamond, impenetrably perfect moral reasoning. However, it is easy to say what you know everyone will agree with, because very few people actually think for themselves. Ignorance abounds and it’s easier to just repeat what others say. The simple, easy answer is “Yes, you must always disclose, no matter what. It is your moral obligation and responsibility.” When you say that, do it in a deep voice, as if it were God, or Zeus or something with a big white beard. Santa maybe. But seriously,we need to discuss this issue at a more intelligent level. I desire every opinion, point of view, and feeling there is out there, for everyone’s voice is enlightening in one way or another. So enough fade in, here's my insight:
The numbers show, look at any site; government run, scientific research, or just some random herpes info site, that approximately 70% of the population has HVS-1, regardless of where it may happen to be on their body. This doesn't include HVS-2 for which my argument doesn't necessarily apply because my argument is based on HVS-1 numbers, and probability. However, I can't say that it wouldn’t stand for HVS-2 infected individuals, but nonetheless, I apologize if I have wasted your time. In my argument, I deal with numbers, so some of the situations may sound like a stretch, but that’s because I am only one man, but the argument still holds. If I were to make friendly with 10 girls, on separate nights, and on each night tell them before anything happened that I have HVS1, they would tell me to **** off. You could refute this, but lets not, for the sake of my argument. If then all 10 girls went on to hook up with other guys, the numbers say that 7 out of 10 of them would hook up with someone with HVS-1. The massive majority of the guys wouldn’t know this about themselves or know that cold sores are actually herpes, or care. So this being said, are they better off hooking up with random guys, or someone like me who is going to do everything in his power to minimize the possibility of transmission?? The 7 guys that I refer to here are just as contagious as I am. They are equal to me in contagiousness, which doesn’t seem like a word, but I assure you, is. I looked it up. I could go on, but I assume that there must be a character limit on this thing, and you are probably hurting cranially right now from all the reading.
Please note, I have never said not disclosing is not immoral. It is! I think. Someone will have to first define to me what morality is, and then how they came to the conclusion they did. I will not argue the morality of HVS-1 disclosure. Although, based upon the argument I just made, maybe you could, but I will not venture into those waters. The above argument is very utilitarian, I know. This is not the only way to approach the topic. There are many other points to be made, but remember: A feeling is not something that is based upon logical reasoning. It may be worth stating, but it does not really hold too much weight in the grand scheme of things. What I have presented here is a logical pathway to come to a conclusion about herpes disclosure. I admit, it may be wrong, but that’s why I’m interested in actual insight, not the typical diarrhea that is slung all over the Internet on this subject.
Summary: I argue that a girl hooking up with me once, is statistically safer than if she played the field and hooked up with one random guy.
To deflect some responses I am sure I will get:
If there is a girl I truly care about, and hope to be with for a long time, I will most certainly tell her.
And for any extreme feminists out there, yes, you can reverse the sexes in this argument. I am not sexist, it goes both ways.
we can't tell you what to do. that's a decision to make yourself. We will give you the information you need to make sure that have the facts straight to base your decisions on. obviously you've already discussed this on other forums too and didn't get the answer you wanted.
I can tell you from my own experiences that I've only ever been turned down twice in 25 years of having hsv2. both times were men I was looking for ltr with. None of my one night stands ever thought my having genital herpes was an issue. it really isn't the mood killer you think it is.
grace
I can tell you from my own experiences that I've only ever been turned down twice in 25 years of having hsv2. both times were men I was looking for ltr with. None of my one night stands ever thought my having genital herpes was an issue. it really isn't the mood killer you think it is.
grace
Just looking for clarification of your initial post.
Are you implying that you don't want to use protection, nor should you really NEED to with HSV, because the percentage of STD's that can be caught from OTHER men make you less dangerous?
Are you implying that you don't want to use protection, nor should you really NEED to with HSV, because the percentage of STD's that can be caught from OTHER men make you less dangerous?
I appreciate the comments, but I still don't feel like I have gotten anywhere with the issue. I pride myself on looking at issues at a deeper level than most are willing to or capable of doing. Not to say that I am a genius, but I don't accept other people's conclusions without first understanding how they got there. If you believe that it is always necessary to disclose, that is a valid choice, Certainly, there will be no one that tells you that you are wrong for doing so. I'm just in need of understanding the core reasoning for doing so. Obviously you alleviate yourself of almost all moral responsibility, but what person do you know that always acts entirely based upon morals. We commit immoral acts every day. That might be a slight exaggeration, but it depends upon the magnitude an immoral act must reach for it to be considered an issue. By disclosing to all potential partners, you are putting yourself at a great deal of risk. My confusion stems from whether or not this is always necessary. The terms integrity, honesty, and rights get thrown around a lot, but those are just ideas that help guide us down a path that proves to be least chaotic. I think that utilitarianism is an extremely valid approach to providing logical thoughts. Maybe this forum is not the proper venue, but if I have to live with this problem for a while to the rest of my life it would prove helpful to hash this out.
they've been saying a cure in the next 10 years for the last 25 years or more :(
really nothing overly promising currently in the works I"m sorry to say :(
really nothing overly promising currently in the works I"m sorry to say :(
They say 4-5 years... who knows. Could be more, could be less. You should check out what they predicted, in the 50s or 60s or something like that, would be the household computer in 2000. It was as big as a room and had a large wheel for some sort of control. I'll lean on science. F the hippies.
It is possible that a cure can be found, for Herpes, Aids, cancer... anything, It is only a matter of time. That time could be months from now, or a 1000 years from now. There is hope however, that in itself is enough to get people through things.
I did incorporate those statistics into my argument, in fact they are completely necessary for it to have any significance whatsoever. My statistics were apparently wrong, even though I can't seem to find that data on the CDC website. Its hard to contemplate the significance of stats when applied to individual events. I knew the numbers would be hard to determine, but some of your points there make it even harder. They are useful.
Its also nice to see that you agree with me, as long as my assumptions about the numbers are correct. I respect that, not that you have to agree with me to gain my respect, but that you have at least moved past the usual ******** that clouds the more sophisticated issue. Not many people seem to have that mental capacity. Like I said, I may be wrong, most likely in fact. But I still wonder what the significance of me possibly be less risky means in the context of random hook-ups.
Most people want to talk about finding love with reference to being infected with herpes. I am 23, so I am not necessarily looking for that. However, love is always a nice thing. I would take it. I am sure that the girl that falls for me will be able to get past my herpes. I don't need to be patronized about love. There is more to this thing than finding someone to love.
I am just banking on the guys at Duke and Harvard to come up with something helpful so that this discussion becomes irrelevant.
Its also nice to see that you agree with me, as long as my assumptions about the numbers are correct. I respect that, not that you have to agree with me to gain my respect, but that you have at least moved past the usual ******** that clouds the more sophisticated issue. Not many people seem to have that mental capacity. Like I said, I may be wrong, most likely in fact. But I still wonder what the significance of me possibly be less risky means in the context of random hook-ups.
Most people want to talk about finding love with reference to being infected with herpes. I am 23, so I am not necessarily looking for that. However, love is always a nice thing. I would take it. I am sure that the girl that falls for me will be able to get past my herpes. I don't need to be patronized about love. There is more to this thing than finding someone to love.
I am just banking on the guys at Duke and Harvard to come up with something helpful so that this discussion becomes irrelevant.
You argument is that a woman has less risk factor in having sex with you, who knows you have HVS-1, than with someone else who does not know they have HVS-1 but does in fact have HVS-1 as well.
If that is your complete argument, I would say you are correct. ONLY because you would take known precautions, and random guy who doesn't know he has HVS-1 would not take said precautions, because he would not know he had to take said precautions. That is common sense and basic logic. This is also supported by lower risk % based on using proper precautions vs not.
However, not every random guy will have HVS-1, or anything for that matter, and of course random guy could have far more than HVS-1.
When dealing with a population for statistics, you have to incorporate the entire population in which subject (random woman) would chose from. You cannot isolate certain criteria to fit your argument. (i.e. all her choices have HVS-1.. whether they know it or not). Thus, random woman would chose from the entire population, and because we have no idea who random guy would be, we have to incorporate the entire population. Even Santa Claus. This would include people with and without HVS-1.
You would have to look at the risk factors about her getting HVS-1 with you VS some random guy, but you would have to include those without HVS-1, because not everyone she chooses will have HVS-1.
I hope that made sense.
If that is your complete argument, I would say you are correct. ONLY because you would take known precautions, and random guy who doesn't know he has HVS-1 would not take said precautions, because he would not know he had to take said precautions. That is common sense and basic logic. This is also supported by lower risk % based on using proper precautions vs not.
However, not every random guy will have HVS-1, or anything for that matter, and of course random guy could have far more than HVS-1.
When dealing with a population for statistics, you have to incorporate the entire population in which subject (random woman) would chose from. You cannot isolate certain criteria to fit your argument. (i.e. all her choices have HVS-1.. whether they know it or not). Thus, random woman would chose from the entire population, and because we have no idea who random guy would be, we have to incorporate the entire population. Even Santa Claus. This would include people with and without HVS-1.
You would have to look at the risk factors about her getting HVS-1 with you VS some random guy, but you would have to include those without HVS-1, because not everyone she chooses will have HVS-1.
I hope that made sense.
I don't see how this pertains to my logic, other than you are saying I am no greater risk than any other guy.
The argument that because you know what you have or do not have, does not make you safer, in your scenario.
If you had a FULL STD test done, and hadn't had sex in 6 months, waiting for said results, then YES, you could argue that you would be safer than a random guy. But, once you have sex with miss-only-for-a-night... you now are exposed to EVERYTHING she ever had/has. So....this means your STD panel is now outdated. And, unless you are going to get tested after every sexual encounter.. you are NO safer than a random guy she meets elsewhere. Oh, if you do get tested after every encounter, that means you will be only having sex twice a year, as it takes 6 months for some anti-bodies to be testable.
They only safe sex is no sex (even self-sex is dangerous- for other reasons).
If you had a FULL STD test done, and hadn't had sex in 6 months, waiting for said results, then YES, you could argue that you would be safer than a random guy. But, once you have sex with miss-only-for-a-night... you now are exposed to EVERYTHING she ever had/has. So....this means your STD panel is now outdated. And, unless you are going to get tested after every sexual encounter.. you are NO safer than a random guy she meets elsewhere. Oh, if you do get tested after every encounter, that means you will be only having sex twice a year, as it takes 6 months for some anti-bodies to be testable.
They only safe sex is no sex (even self-sex is dangerous- for other reasons).
the stats I quoted come from the last NHANES study which is where we get most of our rates of infection stats for herpes from. just wanted to let you know that the rates of infection aren't as high as you thought in your age group.
grace
grace
Well the numbers are tough to deal with in the argument. It's hard to calculate statistical probabilities. I'll have to do some more research on the actual numbers apparently, however, the crux of the argument is this:
What does it mean if it is safer to have sex with me once, then it is to play the field? Assuming were are talking about individual events? That's the question. What does it mean if I am safer. Would that change anything, and if not. Why?
Morality, integrity, honesty. Those are all valid ideas and help in determining what you actually do. The thing is, I'm not talking about love here. I am talking about going to bed with a one nighter. Its crude, but we all do it, or did it.
What does it mean if it is safer to have sex with me once, then it is to play the field? Assuming were are talking about individual events? That's the question. What does it mean if I am safer. Would that change anything, and if not. Why?
Morality, integrity, honesty. Those are all valid ideas and help in determining what you actually do. The thing is, I'm not talking about love here. I am talking about going to bed with a one nighter. Its crude, but we all do it, or did it.
Hey grace, if we don't ever retire.. does that mean we don't ever enter into that 80%?
I think that people interested in HOOK-Ups are not interested in how safe you ware with your STD, but would rather Hook-Up with someone without and STD.. and they take that risk elsewhere.
I agree however, that it is ethically and morally the person with an STD, it is their responsibility to inform any potential partner... some would argue differently.
Just last week I had sex with a woman I had been talking to for several weeks. Only for her to tell me 3 days after sex, that she had HVS-2. Given that knowledge before hand, I would not have had unprotected sex with her.
That being said, it is about character and integrity. I had set up a date with a lady for tomorrow (Thursday) night several weeks ago, and after recent events, I felt I had to inform her of my situation, before we even met for the first time. To my surprise, she said it was a concern that I might have contracted HVS-2.. but she said she still wanted to meet, and if I did get it we would deal with it then. She said she was interested in me, and if that was a part of me, she would have to accept it.
Moral, not everyone runs from HVS-2, or HVS-1. Those that do, never really liked you, they just wanted sex, so of course they are going to run... run to someone they think is safer. Playing the odds, your theory has a point that they could in fact get HVS-1 or worse from someone else...true.... but just because you are willing disclose, does not logically mean you are any safer than random guy X. Not unless you have papers to prove your medical status, and constantly have them updated.. only then would you, could you argue that you are safer.
Just be honest with people.. when you meet someone who likes YOU, who loves YOU, they won't care about the HVS-1.. or 2, or if your short, or overweight, or etc. :)
I agree however, that it is ethically and morally the person with an STD, it is their responsibility to inform any potential partner... some would argue differently.
Just last week I had sex with a woman I had been talking to for several weeks. Only for her to tell me 3 days after sex, that she had HVS-2. Given that knowledge before hand, I would not have had unprotected sex with her.
That being said, it is about character and integrity. I had set up a date with a lady for tomorrow (Thursday) night several weeks ago, and after recent events, I felt I had to inform her of my situation, before we even met for the first time. To my surprise, she said it was a concern that I might have contracted HVS-2.. but she said she still wanted to meet, and if I did get it we would deal with it then. She said she was interested in me, and if that was a part of me, she would have to accept it.
Moral, not everyone runs from HVS-2, or HVS-1. Those that do, never really liked you, they just wanted sex, so of course they are going to run... run to someone they think is safer. Playing the odds, your theory has a point that they could in fact get HVS-1 or worse from someone else...true.... but just because you are willing disclose, does not logically mean you are any safer than random guy X. Not unless you have papers to prove your medical status, and constantly have them updated.. only then would you, could you argue that you are safer.
Just be honest with people.. when you meet someone who likes YOU, who loves YOU, they won't care about the HVS-1.. or 2, or if your short, or overweight, or etc. :)
Just some additional knowledge for you since you posted that 70% of people have hsv1 which is an erroneous fact - at least in the US, Canada and UK.
in your age group, only 30% of people have hsv1. It doesn't get close to the 60% average until you are over 40. It gets closer to 80% in the US closer to the age of retirement.
grace
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Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
