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oral HSV2 or false test results?
I'll try to keep this as brief and concise as possible.
A few weeks before the the onset of symptoms I did have unprotected sex with a partner of unknown STI status (though she said she'd been tested.)
About six weeks ago I noticed a pair of swollen inguinal lymph nodes. These symptoms were accompanied by a mild itching burning and stinging sensation all around the glands of my penis. The whole area surrounding the meatus is red and irritated and there is patchy redness elsewhere on the glans. Sometimes it stings. There is sometimes a mild burning sensation right after i urinate coming from the urethra. All these symptoms are relatively mild. There is a dark purple (vein-colored) spot on the cresting part of the glans. Never have there been any blisters or lesions and the pain is not emanating from any very specific spot. The redness seems to come and go so that sometimes there are no visible symptoms at all. Masturbation seems to irritate it and bring about the symptoms.
I have had it looked at by 2 doctors who say it doesn't look herpetic. I know the timeframe is way too long also (6 weeks.) I have tested negative for clamidia syphillis gonorea and HIV. I have been using Viaderm KC which is supposed to be a combination cortizone antibiotic and antifugal for about 4 weeks and I have been taking 400mg of oral acyclovir 3 times daily for about a week. Nothing seems to help.
So what does all this have to do with oral HSV2 you ask?
well here's the kicker.
I had an HSV type specific blood test done about three weeks ago. Since I have had cold sores before (i.e. a stinging sensation on my upper lip that turns into a blister that breaks and scabs then falls off and heals all over the course of ten days or so) I was fully expecting it to tell me I was HSV1 positive and possibly HSV2 positive if i did in fact have genital herpes also. I was absolutely dumbfounded by the results:
HSV1 negative
HSV2 positive
I have never had a genital blister or lesion as far as I know. As for the oral symptoms I believe that I get them about once every 1 or 2 years (very hard to remember) and have gotten them since childhood.
Is it likely at this point that I contracted oral HSV2 as a child and that it has been recurring ever since?
Is it more likely that I received a false negative for HSV1 and I do in fact have both?
Is it possible that the two results were just backwards and in fact I'm HSV1 positive HSV2 negative? (wishful thinking I know)
I was with a girl for 5 years who had frequent outbreaks (about once every 1 or 2 months) of oral herpes and yes, we avoided kissing while she had symptoms but I was never all that careful because I'd always assumed I had it so I find it difficult to believe that she never would have given it to me. Does being HSV2 positive provide more protection from contracting HSV1 than the other way around?
I'm in a relationship right now and she's been out of the country for four months and is coming back in 2 days (we had agreed to an open relationship while she was gone so she knows everything.) I have discussed the situation with her and explained the risks and she has decided to stay with me. Is it safe for me to have protected sex with her when she gets back or am I going to have to wait until these genital symptoms go away?
what about unprotected oral sex?
FYI i have redone the HSV blood test as I am very skeptical about the results and am awaiting the results. Also I am awaiting the results of a urethral swab test conducted about a week ago. As I said 2 doctors have told me they don't think my genital symptoms are herpes and the one who did the swab only really did it upon my insistence.
I dont think I managed to keep this as short as I would have liked. Sorry about that. I look forward to your insists on my situation. Thanks in advance.
A few weeks before the the onset of symptoms I did have unprotected sex with a partner of unknown STI status (though she said she'd been tested.)
About six weeks ago I noticed a pair of swollen inguinal lymph nodes. These symptoms were accompanied by a mild itching burning and stinging sensation all around the glands of my penis. The whole area surrounding the meatus is red and irritated and there is patchy redness elsewhere on the glans. Sometimes it stings. There is sometimes a mild burning sensation right after i urinate coming from the urethra. All these symptoms are relatively mild. There is a dark purple (vein-colored) spot on the cresting part of the glans. Never have there been any blisters or lesions and the pain is not emanating from any very specific spot. The redness seems to come and go so that sometimes there are no visible symptoms at all. Masturbation seems to irritate it and bring about the symptoms.
I have had it looked at by 2 doctors who say it doesn't look herpetic. I know the timeframe is way too long also (6 weeks.) I have tested negative for clamidia syphillis gonorea and HIV. I have been using Viaderm KC which is supposed to be a combination cortizone antibiotic and antifugal for about 4 weeks and I have been taking 400mg of oral acyclovir 3 times daily for about a week. Nothing seems to help.
So what does all this have to do with oral HSV2 you ask?
well here's the kicker.
I had an HSV type specific blood test done about three weeks ago. Since I have had cold sores before (i.e. a stinging sensation on my upper lip that turns into a blister that breaks and scabs then falls off and heals all over the course of ten days or so) I was fully expecting it to tell me I was HSV1 positive and possibly HSV2 positive if i did in fact have genital herpes also. I was absolutely dumbfounded by the results:
HSV1 negative
HSV2 positive
I have never had a genital blister or lesion as far as I know. As for the oral symptoms I believe that I get them about once every 1 or 2 years (very hard to remember) and have gotten them since childhood.
Is it likely at this point that I contracted oral HSV2 as a child and that it has been recurring ever since?
Is it more likely that I received a false negative for HSV1 and I do in fact have both?
Is it possible that the two results were just backwards and in fact I'm HSV1 positive HSV2 negative? (wishful thinking I know)
I was with a girl for 5 years who had frequent outbreaks (about once every 1 or 2 months) of oral herpes and yes, we avoided kissing while she had symptoms but I was never all that careful because I'd always assumed I had it so I find it difficult to believe that she never would have given it to me. Does being HSV2 positive provide more protection from contracting HSV1 than the other way around?
I'm in a relationship right now and she's been out of the country for four months and is coming back in 2 days (we had agreed to an open relationship while she was gone so she knows everything.) I have discussed the situation with her and explained the risks and she has decided to stay with me. Is it safe for me to have protected sex with her when she gets back or am I going to have to wait until these genital symptoms go away?
what about unprotected oral sex?
FYI i have redone the HSV blood test as I am very skeptical about the results and am awaiting the results. Also I am awaiting the results of a urethral swab test conducted about a week ago. As I said 2 doctors have told me they don't think my genital symptoms are herpes and the one who did the swab only really did it upon my insistence.
I dont think I managed to keep this as short as I would have liked. Sorry about that. I look forward to your insists on my situation. Thanks in advance.
I have to say that being the 'unlucky' rarity is hard when you read threads like this. I too am negative for HSV1 and positive for HSV2. I have HSV2 on both my chin and in my mouth. I show very mild symptoms in both areas. I think most of our ‘experts’ need to come to realization rare or not this virus both strains can spread virtually anywhere. Although the chances may be reduced, let’s not throw around ‘near impossible’. This will on contribute in a small way to people thinking they are in the clear when in fact they are not.
I beg your pardon but I don't understand why you are so convinced that I have HSV1 when two different tests from two different labs say otherwise and the latest of them has shown a very low score on the HSV1 count. I've spoken to at least 2 doctors who disagree with you. Incidentally, a third one told me I could not have oral HSV2 because it does not exist. At least I know that he is wrong.
Seriously, everything you read on the internet about herpes is so confusing and there is never anything that is said about it that gives you 100% certainty about anything and everything only ever talks about tendencies and probabilities and exceptions and what ifs and rarely this and usually that.
If there is a single thing that I can conclude with certainty about herpes it is that the symptoms and their frequency vary vastly from one person to the next and there is scarcely such as thing as a "normal" case of it. There are infected people with herpes in either place who never have a single outbreak and there are some who have severe ones every month of their lives. I’ve seen pictures of people who have HSV2 outbreaks on their forearms. I know a man who has recurring HSV2 on his finger. Why is it so improbable that I have an oral HSV2 outbreak every 1 or 2 years?
You say that HSV2 symptoms are less likely to be "classic" in a person who already has HSV1 but that in itself is contradictory. 90% of people have HSV1 and most people acquire it when they are young (i.e. typically before they acquire genital herpes.) Therefore out of all the people who have HSV2, most of them have HSV1 ALSO. People who have both are the norm and people who have only HSV2 are the exception so what could you possibly mean by "classic?"
I understand, it’s possible that somehow both tests missed the HSV1 infection but based on the evidence with which I have been presented it seems I have a non-typical case of HSV2 only. I seem to have recurring oral HSV2 and have no reason to believe otherwise. I don’t understand why you do.
Seriously, everything you read on the internet about herpes is so confusing and there is never anything that is said about it that gives you 100% certainty about anything and everything only ever talks about tendencies and probabilities and exceptions and what ifs and rarely this and usually that.
If there is a single thing that I can conclude with certainty about herpes it is that the symptoms and their frequency vary vastly from one person to the next and there is scarcely such as thing as a "normal" case of it. There are infected people with herpes in either place who never have a single outbreak and there are some who have severe ones every month of their lives. I’ve seen pictures of people who have HSV2 outbreaks on their forearms. I know a man who has recurring HSV2 on his finger. Why is it so improbable that I have an oral HSV2 outbreak every 1 or 2 years?
You say that HSV2 symptoms are less likely to be "classic" in a person who already has HSV1 but that in itself is contradictory. 90% of people have HSV1 and most people acquire it when they are young (i.e. typically before they acquire genital herpes.) Therefore out of all the people who have HSV2, most of them have HSV1 ALSO. People who have both are the norm and people who have only HSV2 are the exception so what could you possibly mean by "classic?"
I understand, it’s possible that somehow both tests missed the HSV1 infection but based on the evidence with which I have been presented it seems I have a non-typical case of HSV2 only. I seem to have recurring oral HSV2 and have no reason to believe otherwise. I don’t understand why you do.
as I already said, even the best blood tests still miss hsv1. It's far more likely you have hsv1 orally and it's not being picked up on the blood tests.
having hsv1 orally means that your genital hsv2 symptoms are likely to be milder and less "classic" too.
you can discuss with your provider doing oral swabs and genital swabs with any symptoms in either area to confirm.
feel free to pay to post to Terri Warren, the herpes expert here on medhelp for her opinion too.
having hsv1 orally means that your genital hsv2 symptoms are likely to be milder and less "classic" too.
you can discuss with your provider doing oral swabs and genital swabs with any symptoms in either area to confirm.
feel free to pay to post to Terri Warren, the herpes expert here on medhelp for her opinion too.
ok so I just got the results of the second herpes blood test which was conducted in a different lab. This time they did include the numbers:
HSV1 negative less than 0.2
HSV2 positive more than 8.0
The doctor said he is convinced that this is simply a very unusual case of hsv2.
I know they say it's usually the case that oral HSV2 only happens through oral sex and usually in combination with genital symptoms. Since I acquired this long before I was sexually active then perhaps I shared a coke can or something with someone who was having more typical oral symptoms or maybe even someone who has recently touched their genitalia and contracted it that way.
I know you said the Western Blot test is the only one you trust but we are talking about two different tests from two different labs, a low negative on HSV1 and a high positive on HSV2. It may be very rare but it's not impossible.
Here is an interesting thought:
How is it that we know what we think we know about oral HSV2 infections?
As I see it, the incidence of such cases like mine (of recurring oral HSV2 in the complete absence of genital symptoms) is likely to be highly underestimated.
Hardly anyone ever gets a swab done on an oral herpes sore. Everyone just assumes it's HSV1 unless there are genital symptoms.
Furthermore, they say that 90% of people are infected with oral HSV1. Therefore it stands to reason that 90% of people infected with oral HSV2 are ALSO infected with oral HSV1. If anyone like that actually gets a blood test done they will usually test positive for BOTH. In that case, the natural assumption is that they are infected with oral HSV1 and genital HSV2.
Since you read everywhere on the internet that most people with HSV2 don't even know they have it then typically people would have no problem with that assumption.
The only reason that I now believe I don't have genital HSV2 is because I happened to be one of the 10% of people NOT infected with HSV1 even though I know for a fact I have oral herpes.
If I ever get another sore (oral or genital) I will have a swab done and I'll repost here.
I'm curious to see what people think.
FYI re: the genital symptoms I described at the beginning of this post they were worse than ever until I took a Canesten oral tablet three days ago. They've now pretty much completely cleared up and it's supposed to take up to 7 days so it does look like it was yeast which is sort of what I thought all along.
For any man with a similar yeast thing that is hard to get rid of I would highly recommend the Canesten oral tablet.
HSV1 negative less than 0.2
HSV2 positive more than 8.0
The doctor said he is convinced that this is simply a very unusual case of hsv2.
I know they say it's usually the case that oral HSV2 only happens through oral sex and usually in combination with genital symptoms. Since I acquired this long before I was sexually active then perhaps I shared a coke can or something with someone who was having more typical oral symptoms or maybe even someone who has recently touched their genitalia and contracted it that way.
I know you said the Western Blot test is the only one you trust but we are talking about two different tests from two different labs, a low negative on HSV1 and a high positive on HSV2. It may be very rare but it's not impossible.
Here is an interesting thought:
How is it that we know what we think we know about oral HSV2 infections?
As I see it, the incidence of such cases like mine (of recurring oral HSV2 in the complete absence of genital symptoms) is likely to be highly underestimated.
Hardly anyone ever gets a swab done on an oral herpes sore. Everyone just assumes it's HSV1 unless there are genital symptoms.
Furthermore, they say that 90% of people are infected with oral HSV1. Therefore it stands to reason that 90% of people infected with oral HSV2 are ALSO infected with oral HSV1. If anyone like that actually gets a blood test done they will usually test positive for BOTH. In that case, the natural assumption is that they are infected with oral HSV1 and genital HSV2.
Since you read everywhere on the internet that most people with HSV2 don't even know they have it then typically people would have no problem with that assumption.
The only reason that I now believe I don't have genital HSV2 is because I happened to be one of the 10% of people NOT infected with HSV1 even though I know for a fact I have oral herpes.
If I ever get another sore (oral or genital) I will have a swab done and I'll repost here.
I'm curious to see what people think.
FYI re: the genital symptoms I described at the beginning of this post they were worse than ever until I took a Canesten oral tablet three days ago. They've now pretty much completely cleared up and it's supposed to take up to 7 days so it does look like it was yeast which is sort of what I thought all along.
For any man with a similar yeast thing that is hard to get rid of I would highly recommend the Canesten oral tablet.
I'm sorry. I'm still confused. I understand the WB may be the only reliable confirmatory test but are you telling me that a second identical blood test will likely yield the same inconclusive result and there was no point in my even doing it?
Would knowing that I definitely have HSV1 affect the way the lab techs would have interpreted the data?
I will attempt to get those numbers.
Thanks
Would knowing that I definitely have HSV1 affect the way the lab techs would have interpreted the data?
I will attempt to get those numbers.
Thanks
I don't believe you can get a herpes WB currently in Canada :( As far as I know, there currently is not any confirmatory testing options.
Have your provider call the lab they use to see if there are numeric results with the test and it was just reported as + or - .
Have your provider call the lab they use to see if there are numeric results with the test and it was just reported as + or - .
Oh and what does EIA stand for?
It says HSV2 specific igG >>>>Positive (EIA)
there is a star next to the result indicating that it is "interpretive data"
It says HSV2 specific igG >>>>Positive (EIA)
there is a star next to the result indicating that it is "interpretive data"
Thank you Grace. I'll try the powder.
I'm not in the U.S. I'm in Montreal. There is a health info number (811) I can call here. Maybe they can tell me how to get a western Blot test.
There is frustratingly little information on the result form they gave me. All it says is that there is a "presumptive presence" of IgG HSV2 antibody.
Basically what I've done at this point is repeated the exact same test (whatever it is.)
Is that completely useless?
If it comes back with exactly the same results does that mean I know nothing more until I get a western blot test done?
If it comes back saying that I am positive for both viruses is it then logical to assume I have both?
Thanks
I'm not in the U.S. I'm in Montreal. There is a health info number (811) I can call here. Maybe they can tell me how to get a western Blot test.
There is frustratingly little information on the result form they gave me. All it says is that there is a "presumptive presence" of IgG HSV2 antibody.
Basically what I've done at this point is repeated the exact same test (whatever it is.)
Is that completely useless?
If it comes back with exactly the same results does that mean I know nothing more until I get a western blot test done?
If it comes back saying that I am positive for both viruses is it then logical to assume I have both?
Thanks
even the best blood tests still miss 1 out of every 10 hsv1 infections. you know you have hsv1 orally from your symptoms even though it isn't being picked up on in your blood testing.
hsv1 can cause false positive hsv2 results. since you had a test that only returns with + or - ( highly doubt it was a herpes WB blood test ), you will need to confirm your status with additional confirmatory testing. if you are in the US, how to obtain a herpes WB blood test is listed in our read before posting post on the forum.
your genital symptoms do sound more like a fungal infection than anything. honestly at this point I'd stop the product you were using. sometimes the topical steroids just worsen symptoms for some folks. I'd switch to a powdered otc antifungal and use it twice a day for a full week and then stop that too. If you get a return of symptoms after then, time for a dermatologist.
as for your current partner, I'd stick to protected sexual contact - both oral and genital at this point since you don't know what is going on . you don't want to risk infecting your partner nor do you want to risk prolonging your symptoms depending on the cause of them. also if you two have an open relationship, make sure you both follow up properly on testing at the proper times after other partners too.
grace
hsv1 can cause false positive hsv2 results. since you had a test that only returns with + or - ( highly doubt it was a herpes WB blood test ), you will need to confirm your status with additional confirmatory testing. if you are in the US, how to obtain a herpes WB blood test is listed in our read before posting post on the forum.
your genital symptoms do sound more like a fungal infection than anything. honestly at this point I'd stop the product you were using. sometimes the topical steroids just worsen symptoms for some folks. I'd switch to a powdered otc antifungal and use it twice a day for a full week and then stop that too. If you get a return of symptoms after then, time for a dermatologist.
as for your current partner, I'd stick to protected sexual contact - both oral and genital at this point since you don't know what is going on . you don't want to risk infecting your partner nor do you want to risk prolonging your symptoms depending on the cause of them. also if you two have an open relationship, make sure you both follow up properly on testing at the proper times after other partners too.
grace
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Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Millions of people are diagnosed with STDs in the U.S. each year.
STDs can't be transmitted by casual contact, like hugging or touching.
Syphilis is an STD that is transmitted by oral, genital and anal sex.
