Can 4mm stone in kidney cause discomfort?

[Blizzardbaby]

Hello fellow kidney stoners...I would appreciate any input you can offer. Last summer I had left flank pain, radiated down my side, around my hip and into my groin. Finally, in October I was diagnosed with kidney stones. I had an 8mm stone that was lodged in the ureter removed. There were two stones remaining in the left kidney. I have been having the similar sensation I had last summer....left flank pain, radiating down my waist around my hip, sometimes into my groin. I had a follow up in April with my urologist and there was no sign of stones on the left, however, an x-ray on June 11 (prior to lithotripsy to remove a 5mm stone in my right kidney revealed the two stones are still in my left kidney.) BTW, the stone on the right was not giving me any symptoms.
Saw the urologist yesterday and he says typically stones that are still in the kidney don't cause pain. I am having another u/s on July 1 to look for the stone on the left. He did say u/s in April could have missed it. Have tentatively scheduled lithotripsy on the left kidney for mid-July.
I feel like I'm in that movie "Groundhog Day" -- I know the discomfort isn't in my head. Have been to my primary, OB/GYN had complete physical, vaginal u/s, etc. everything is normal. Discomfort comes & goes...some days I feel fine, then another day the nagging ache in my left flank is present. Perhaps from the stone moving around?  Only thing that shouldn't be there is this 4mm stone in the left kidney. Has anyone had discomfort from a stone that is still in the kidney?
This is just maddening. I keep drinking a lot of water hoping it will help in some way.
Anybody else have a similar experience?
Many thanks.

[Unclebuck257]

Congrats on getting to the real truth!! I know that's got to be a relief to you after all this time. Your advice is spot on too!! Good Luck.

[Blizzardbaby]

Update everyone: I was FINALLY and officially diagnosed via MRI Arthrogram with a labral year in my left hip. My very gifted PT, who specializes in hips, was the one who finally zoned in on the problem. Soon thereafter, I made an appointment with an orthopedic practice (I had seen a hip specialist 2.5 years ago - he found nothing) in Boston and lo and behold, the MRI confirmed my condition. It has been a long and painful road, wondering what has been dogging me and eluding so magi specialists for three years. I am grateful for a diagnosis and scheduled for labral tear repair surgery in Boston later this month. I feel I'm in the best of hands. If youd condition and pains persist, be your own advocate. Press on, don't take "no" for an answer and continue to seek out answers. All my best to all of you.

[Tungpv]

Congratulations for a good signal !

[Unclebuck257]

Congradulations on FINALLY getting to the reason for your pain and then having it eliminated.I pray it continues that way for you.

[Blizzardbaby]

It's been quite a while since  I posted but i believe I have FINALLY found the answer to my chronic lower back/pelvic/groin pain. To reiterate, "ache" and pain radiated to various places; including lower back, sometimes flank, into my buttock, my anterior upper thigh. After multiple trips to five chiropractors, PT, yoga, acupuncture, etc. (after all the medical testing) I was referred by my primary to a physiatrist (specializes in muscular/skeletal issues). I was dx with sacroilliac joint dysfunction and just this week had a sacroiliac injection. It was completely painless and took literally a minute and a half! At the time I arrived at the pain mgt. clinic my pain was a 4. As soon as the local was injected my pain completely went away. I was a bit achy soon after and it continued throughout the day & evening. I was told this was possible and iced the area throughout the day. I have now been pain-free for the past two days!!! I was told I may need another injection because the condition had been chronic and went on for over 2.5 years. So far, so good. I feel like a new woman. Something to consider if you share any of the symptoms I shared in my previous posts. Relief! Relief! Relief! FINALLY!!!!!

[Blizzardbaby]

Thank you again for all your comments. Update: I did have my 4mm stone removed mid-July and still continued with the ache/flank pain that I had been feeling before. Although, to be honest, I think the flank pain was diminished. I returned to my PCP and was referred to a GI for a colonoscopy. (All other tests, CT scan, vaginal u/s, two u/s and two flat panel x-rays were normal). Had the colonoscopy two weeks ago and it was normal. Doctor found "mild" diverticulosis. Wondering if this could be the cause of my "ache" -- sometimes in my lower left ab area (as well as buttock, slight lower left back). GI doc advised eating more fiber which I have been doing. (I certainly was not eating enough before...no question about that). I have stepped up my fiber intake and I do feel better. I had a stretch of four days that I really felt great...today just slightly achy. I'm not sure what to make of it. Report from GI doc says diverticulois CAN cause discomfort and sometimes anti-spasm Rx are given. I started to take Align (probiotic) as well as magnesium and Flaxseed Oil (supplements). Not sure if that has anything to do with feeling better, but from what I've read, they can't hurt. I return to my PCP for a blood pressure check mid-September so I will ask about the "mild" diverticulosis and see what the doc says. I have also started to exercise. Did yoga last week and walked on the treadmill today. Supposed to help with the diverticulosis as well! I hope you are all coping with your kidney stones...and now I have to drink for the diveticulois AS WELL as to prevent kidney stones. Cheers.

[mrsbdlogan]

Thank you very much ChitChatNine. I'm hoping I can eventually find an answer or at least a dr who will treat me with the knowledge of why I'm having pain. I'm having surgery in a couple weeks but the dr said he doesn't think it will releive my pain since he doesn't think there is a urological reason for my pain. But he's doing lithotripsy for the stone in the right and then he said he will put a stint in my left and do a scope. He doesn't know if he'll be able to do it all at once or have to leave the stint in for a week or two and then go back in and do the scope. I guess we'll see. I was talking to a friend of mine who has had problems with this in the past, she mentioned that some of my pain could also be caused from a cyst I have on my kidney. I was told last year that I had a cyst but I was told that it wasn't anything to worry about. It's at least a little comforting to know that others understand what you're dealing with, even though I wouldn't wish this on anyone else. It's nice to know I'm not crazy though. Thank you again and best wishes for you as well!

[ChitChatNine]

With me, sometimes pieces of the stones in my kidney break off and can cause renal colic as you describe.  I feel so bad for you mrsbdlogan.  I had uterolithotripsy done in April and began producing a few new stones that passed *luckily* but even the smallest fragment from Litho caused a great deal of pain.  Crystals or sand can cause pain, too.  

I hope your stones pass soon so you can feel better.

C~

[mrsbdlogan]

I know exactly how you feel. I am going through the same thing now. Went to my urologist because I'm having kidney stone pain, I had lithotripsy to remove a stone that was obstructed last November. He did a KUB and that showed a stone in my right (5mm) but nothing conclusive on my left which is where my pain was dominent. So he then ordered a CT scan, which found a small one in my left as well (2mm). They told me that the stones shouldn't be causing my pain so sent me to my primary dr. Went to my primary dr and was told the same thing and that they couldn't find any other reason why I'd be in pain. My primary dr then told me I needed to see my OBGYN. I am not going because I know that they aren't going to help me either. It is so frustrating to have dr's tell you that you shouldn't be in pain, yet you are, and then to have them pass you off from dr to dr because they don't know what to tell you. In the mean time causing me to just accumulate more bills. Last year, they thought I had gallstones, after doing test after test and having me see specialists they discovered the kidney stones, sent me to a urologist and I had the lithotripsy that day. Needless to say, I feel your pain and I hope it gets better for you!

[toourlady89]

Hello,
Kidney stones can be or are caused by too much calcium and lack of Magnesium> Since you are researching. I'd like to direct you to Search Magnesium and kidney stones. This is one sign of lack of Mg, also included is anxiety and hundreds more., Dr Carolyn Dean's book is amazing. "The Magnesium Miracle.". It will help you understand your symptoms and have instructions what to take and how much,and you will be amazed at what problems lack of Mg can cause. Youtube is another good source for searching on Magnesium, several clinicians have recorded reports and findings. Also make sure to take note of oral magnesium replacement and transdermal Mg at the same time. Oral Mg takes 6 to 12 months before it would build up enough in your system, while transdermal Mg will work instantly but you have to spray it on frequently. I got used to it. I use both but oral replacement is much simpler eventually. I have put my whole household, friends and family on Mg supplementation. You probably will end up doing the same once you do your research. Its best to get the books too. They have further info that won't be on line nor on Youtube.  
The other book is "Transdermal Magnesium" by Dr. Mark Sircus... with instructions on how to use it , He is also on Youtube.
Good health and good luck.

[Blizzardbaby]

Thank you both for your responses and comments. It does make me feel better to know I'm not alone. A bit disconcerting & worrisome (and I tend to be a worrier!) when the urologist first said didn't think this almost 4mm stone was the cause of my pain. I too have read about stones of all shapes (and have seen pics of that "spiky" one and can only imagine it rattling around in the kidney. When I'm bothered by it, I take to the heating pad and the Rx urologist gave me. Does anyone else have the experience of having the pain come & go? Thinking it must be the stone moving around. I'm so glad this damn stone has been served its eviction notice. I'm counting the days. Will keep you posted. Again,  you so much for your comments. Misery truly loves company :))

[iuecon99]

Sorry to hear about this.  I'm in my own personal hell too with this thing.  Already on the hook for way too much money just for the ER trip, and with no insurance I just can't have surgery.  Or if I do I'll be paying it off for the rest of my life.  25K to remove it, for a less than one hour procedure!

The good news is I've been advised it's not doing any damage to my health so I can give it more time to pass as long as I can deal with the pain.  After 2 weeks it's getting a little concerning.  If I knew for sure it would pass, even in a month or two, I could suck it up, but this is discouraging.

[tonyw1966]

The best indicator is the flank pain and brown, red, or pink colored urine. I have both as of last night, which means the 10mm stone is moving out of the kidney now. I will have it surgically removed sometime this week or early next week. This will be my second surgery this year, the last one was 5mm, and it got stuck in the ureter and wouldn't move for two months. Pain depends on size and most importantly shape and type. Some dissolve as they pass, others stay together. I saw one that looked like a burr with spikes. I have heard horror stories, including one guy who drove trains. He was alone and driving freight cars when he had an acute attack. He said he was in so much pain he couldn't get off the floor. So the train zoomed along at 70 m.p.h. and he couldn't do a thing about it until the pain subsided and he could stop the train until relief arrived. The last one I had hurt on and off, with intense flare ups for minutes to an hour or two, followed by a day of no pain, no blood. This one, however, is twice the size as the other and based on the pain last night I am in for some long days until it's out. The other one I had was only 2mm so it passed easily with little pain. Luckily I am loaded up on pain medication anyway because I have Late Stage Lyme's Disease, which has never been treated properly. When it's been in the body for over a decade it's hard to treat Lyme's, because the spirochetes burrow into cartilage and into the brain. Wish you well with yours, keep us updated.

[Blizzardbaby]

Chitchatnine,
Thank you SO much. I just had a follow up u/s and u/s shows a slight "something" - same place as the CT scan in October identified the stone. Urologist isn't convinced that it is the reason for my discomfort, but I do tend to differ. Went for a complete physical a few weeks ago and all was well. Urine showed small amount of blood in the urine - doc believes caused by stone. Makes sense to me. Scheduled my third lithotripsy for July 16th. I can't wait. Thank you for replying to my post. Seems anything that isn't supposed to be there could cause discomfort. Ugh...can't wait to get this out. Until then, cheers....and keep chugging water!!!!

[ChitChatNine]

PS .. small for me I'm referring to a 2.0 mm stone.  

[ChitChatNine]

Many docs say no, but having stones myself I beg to differ.  If there's any kind of movement even with a small stone I can feel the pain .. Here's some great info in our health pages:  http://www.medhelp.org/health_pages/list?cid=1036

C~