Why might I have and high wbc

[ramm0618]

I had two surgeries in 2016 and have yet to be the same. Emergency gall bladder and complete hysterectomy at two different times. Ever since gall bladder surgery, i have been so swollen in my arms, hands, face, fingers, stomach.. i am most swollen when I wake, but stay swollen through out the day even with taking a diuretic. My vitamin D stays low even though I’ve been taking 51,000 iu 2X a week for almost a year. It’s only 38. Without the huge doses, it goes way low.. so obviously my body is not retaining it. I have not been able to lose weight and I’m one of the most discipline dieters.. i eat healthy anyway, but I don’t cheat when I’m dieting. My cholesterol is high too. The good cholesterol is low(which should be high) and the bad cholesterol is high... my blood pressure is great. My wbc is 13.2 and my red blood cells are high normal.. i had high absolute lymphocytes and high immature granulocytes. Please help me figure this out....

[Ken_PA]

Theo is, to my mind, like the George Washington and Thomas Jefferson of mast cells. Here is the world's best MC talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gfTFwJgIVQ

It's excellent. Very information dense, and not a beginning intro. But you're not a beginner anymore :)

He has an intro one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owtt8NO7ahU

Afrin also has a simpler one with "101" in the title.

When you get tired of reading, you can switch to listening :)

[ramm0618]

Thanks so much!!

[Ken_PA]

I was listening to a Dr. Theoharides interview (the mastcellmaster guy). What seems to be edema in you, if it's angioedema, would apparently result not from histamine but from a different mast cell product called Prostaglandin D2. So an antihistamine wouldn't be expected to help that.

[ramm0618]

Interesting.. i will have to look him up. Is he on YouTube?

[Ken_PA]

"I’m pretty normal as far as flexibility goes.."
Then we don't have to consider Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, which is often associated with MC activation problems.

[Ken_PA]

Do you happen to have very flexible (or inflexible) joints?

[ramm0618]

I’m pretty normal as far as flexibility goes..

[Ken_PA]

I wouldn't be surprised if you researched--> mast cells hysterectomy

and found an association. The same with requiring gall bladder removal. MCs attract other immune cells that can be destructive.

[ramm0618]

Oh wow... good to know. That’s very interesting. I’ll check it out!

[Ken_PA]

"Could this explain the elevation in rbc"

You're correct that it is a known effect of testosterone to raise production of RBCs, and possibly other blood cells, too.

You've got a lot going on :) Can you remind me why you're taking the testosterone?

[ramm0618]

I haven’t had it for 8 weeks because it’s so high, but I started it because I wasn’t producing any after a year of complete hysterectomy.

[Ken_PA]

Well, you might have apnea, but it would likely be a result of the underlying problem. E.g., people with CFS might get apnea.

And btw, a person can supposedly have apnea and not know it --  but then a 'sleep study' is done and shows they supposedly wake up even hundreds of times.

[ramm0618]

My testosterone is high and I was being intramuscular testosterone shots. I googled to see if testosterone shots can make your rbc high and it can! It says that rbc need to be monitored while taking intramuscular shots. Could this explain the elevation in rbc. They are just 5.3...but they have risen from 4.7 the past two four weeks. My testosterone is 3 times what it should be.

[Ken_PA]

At this point, you should look up a list of foods that contain high histamine, and see if eliminating them makes you somewhat better.

[ramm0618]

No, I’m
Not taking any blood pressure medicine. I have started taking Benadryl the last two days and it seems to be helping some. The booksI bought tell me about foods to eat! I’m so thankful for your help.

[ramm0618]

I just got a call from nurse. My wbc is now normal after two weeks antibiotics, but my rbc is high. She is now wondering if I might have sleep apnea. I don’t snore except sporadically. I do wake up tired, some days almost feeling drugged after sleeping for hours. Many times I do toss and turn... but as far as snoring, It is very sporadic.

[Ken_PA]

I looked at your ultrasound reports and there is no reason to suspect lymphoma or any cancer.

The ceruloplasmin test makes me think they have been looking at high histamine from a liver problem. (The liver is where histamine is broken down.) You have no liver problem, but high histamine can result from other sources.

Another possible cause for angioedema is high bradykinin. Let's verify that you are not taking a high blood pressure drug called an ACE Inhibitor, right?

[Ken_PA]

Nope, I've never gotten any PM from you. I'll see if I can discover why.

Can you click on my name and send me a new one that way? We'll see how that goes.

[ramm0618]

It’s not letting me... ugh

[Ken_PA]

Sorry, I haven't gotten any PMs from you.

[ramm0618]

I replied to the email you s not me the other day! Let me know if you didn’t get it!

[Ken_PA]

CRP (C-Reactive Protein) is a measure of overall inflammation. Another is ESR. There are others.

If your whole system has higher inflammation, the MCs are more likely to go off.

[ramm0618]

I sent lab results to your pm. Some of the results were a year ago..

[Ken_PA]

"Also, what brand niacin and mg should I start with?"

Watch some vids first. It's a test, not a treatment. It will even make your BP go down temporarily and possibly dramatically, so you should be wary. Or maybe don't do it at all.

[Ken_PA]

"In 6th grade, I literally didn’t go for two weeks and finally told my mom and after 2 or 3 enemas I finally went.. during pregnancy was terrible!!!!"

Problems with gut bacteria, which you have, can lead to heightened inflammation bodywide. That worsens the mast cell problem. Did you have a CRP blood test?

How old are you?

[ramm0618]

I’m not sure what CRP stands for! I’m 46 years old.

[Ken_PA]

"Because I always get too constipated with pain meds. Like I can go week plus days without Bm if I take pain pills... " Okay, that's because opioid type painkillers stop movement in the gut (peristalsis). But if you're more sever than average, why? Maybe lack of good gut bacteria. Maybe. Some people get horrible health because of that, especially after many bouts of Abx.

[ramm0618]

I have always been prone to constipation. First week home from hospital as a newborn I did not have a BM.. mom called pediatrician and he said it was normal.. I disagree!! I had problems with that until after y’all bladder surgery and I literally go often... however I do take a natural colon cleanse or I don’t go everyday and I do still get constipated.
In 6th grade, I literally didn’t go for two weeks and finally told my mom and after 2 or 3 enemas I finally went.. during pregnancy was terrible!!!!

[ramm0618]

Also, what brand niacin and mg should I start with?

[Ken_PA]

...and angioedema is usually associated with rashes (urticaria). But you don't mention having rashes, so that's a clue. Of something.

[ramm0618]

No rashes, but very sensitive skin! Very dry skin too!!

[Ken_PA]

Keep your chin up, we're making progress in Dxing :)

"I didn’t even take pain meds after gall bladder surgery.. except for ibuprofen."  Why was that?

[ramm0618]

Because I always get too constipated with pain meds. Like I can go week plus days without Bm if I take pain pills... miserable!

[Ken_PA]

homocysteine = Hcy

Is your pulse rate high? If you get dizzy because the water in your blood stream is leaving and going into tissue, that makes the heart beat faster to compensate.


Please research to find any association of your meds with angioedema.

Got to go for now...

[ramm0618]

I will research! My pulse gets higher than usual at times. I can feel it raising and yes, it usually makes me dizzy..

[Ken_PA]

Okay, so your MCs go off (almost like a land mine) from physical triggers like heat and maybe pressure. That is probably genetic and would be your predisposition.

(CrossFit is pretty heavy duty, so you must have been fairly fit to even start it.)

Then the operations *triggered* a period of chronic immune dysfunction. That's the working theory. I know somebody who had a gallbladder removal and went through a period of sickness for months. Then it just stopped, but don't count on that.

Is there any drug you started right after the 1st operation? A med can be a trigger.



Have you ever had homocysteine tested?

[ramm0618]

I really wasn’t fit at all! I just pushed myself. My fit daughter went with me so I tried to keep up!  Lol i had to modify a lot the first month, but built a tolerance to pain and gained more strength..

I have not been tested for that as far as I know. What would it read on lab results? Is there an abbreviation for it?

I didn’t even take pain meds after gall bladder surgery.. except for ibuprofen.

[Ken_PA]

I've never heard of the swelling like that, so I don't know the prognosis. But the standard treatment  with the "loop diuretic" has done nothing. That's a clue.

It is prudent to do any experimenting with a doc's approval.

So for now there is the generic benadryl, or the quercetin capsules. I doubt there's anything topical that would get deep enough into where the problem is.


Were you an avid exerciser?

[ramm0618]

I was not an avid exerciser and one reason is because when I would exercise I would swell like crazy too. When I did crossfit for a 3 month span, I worked hard at it, but my whole body felt so swollen. I could not do push ups on the ground because my hands, wrists, and fingers would swell so much it was too uncomfortable. Anytime my body is exposed to heat internally and or externally, I feel miserable!

[Ken_PA]

What you seem to have is an immune dysfunction which is, or is similar to, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome in many ways. People with CFS often go years before a diagnosis. So yes, it's lucky that you came here and I am glad to be of help :)

But people with CFS have a variety of symptoms. The all over angioedema is something very unusual. Improvement there would be dramatic and easily visible, right? We can try to logic our way through that.

I don't think there is one particular type of doc that handles these things. It depends more on their experience with themselves or their patients.

[ramm0618]

Yes, that would be a big dramatic improvement. I know the swelling sets me back as far as quality of life.  I am a school teacher and have been teaching elementary school for 13 years. My doctor took me out of work due to my symptoms and hormones and my physical and mental state at the time... I’m so afraid I won’t be able to work full time soon? Do most people recover enough to be able to work? I was a work aholic and worked no matter what, but after the two surgeries, it knocked me into another realm of swelling and fatigue... it’s been over a year and I am still feeling the same physical. I’m a lot better mentally because I’m on hormones as mine were absolutely and completely depleted.

[Ken_PA]

It's worth trying the diphenhydramine for insomnia, but cautiously. I think you said you feel full easily, so Tagamet might help that part.

If you cautiously take niacin and flush much much more than usual, that's evidence to give to a doc.

Btw I've seen reports of people with MC disorders who've had problems with surgery.

I sent to you a PM with link, maybe that will work. I don't use FB at all.

[ramm0618]

You have given me more information than all the drs I have ever been too! That says a lot. I can’t thank you enough!!!

[Ken_PA]

Wow, you're very determined. That is great.

Btw, if you can't concentrate (aka "brain fog"), that's likely from immune system chemicals. When you feel tired and bad from the flu, that's all from immune chemicals, not from the virus itself.

Insomnia? Sominex is diphenhydramine, which is the anti-histamine Benadryl.

Consider that the "antacid" Tagamet is a histamine blocker.

Maybe you'd like a vid from this top doc/researcher, Theoharides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owtt8NO7ahU

or Carnahan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISV2EUcBP1Q

[ramm0618]

I do have insomnia! Sometimes I can’t go to sleep until 5:00 am.. so Tagamet would be good for me and so would benedryl? I wish it would let me click on the links you send, but it doesn’t. I guess I just need to copy and paste it. Do you have a personal Fb account? I was wondering if you sent the links through messenger if I would be able to click on them?

[Ken_PA]

It seems to be known that an abx can cause tiredness. The possible cause could be somehow from killing off the beneficial gut bacteria. If ever I was taking an abx, I'd take yogurt as a minimum to help restore the beneficial bacteria. Or you can go further and buy capsules with mixtures that also include bifido etc. It's a complicated subject, like most things are.

Let's hope that stopping the abx helps end the awful tiredness. Let me know how it goes.

[ramm0618]

I sure will! I bought 3 books on the mast cell activation. I’m looking forward to gaining lots of knowledge. I’ll keep you posted on blood work results next week.