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Can excess androgens cause oxygen problem in bones

I am kind of freakin out right now waiting for blood tests results. I had an abnormal t1 weighted signal in bone marrow on hip mri. Report said it could be benign red marrow reconversion or myeloproliferative. I have been feeling ill since 2012, had some abnormal results on tests through the years, history of fatigue, pain, rashes. Ana pos at one point. High Dheas-s ranging from 450-690. My endocrinologist did a half ass work up on that. Does anyone know if excess androgens could cause an oxygen problem in bones leading to marrow abnormality? Or if I had a tumor the whole time if that could lead to this.

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1081992 tn?1389903637
COMMUNITY LEADER
"Does anyone know if excess androgens could cause an oxygen problem in bones leading to marrow abnormality? "

Yes, how about this: "Androgens correlate with increased erythropoiesis in women with congenital adrenal hyperplasia"  2017
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5161698/
(though oxygen doesn't seem central to the mechanism)


...and re DHEAS: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5624825/
"Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia"


Helpful - 0
1 Comments
Hi , thanks for answering, I did some reading up after I posted and did come across these, also read some related to pituitary disorders. I cannot figure out my problem, had some tests done and really expected EPO would be high but it wasn’t. Thanks again for taking the time to answer.
1081992 tn?1389903637
COMMUNITY LEADER
"...really expected EPO would be high but it wasn’t"

Well, I was thinking it was a direct effect not mediated by EPO. So I found this:

Androgens correlate with increased erythropoiesis in women with congenital adrenal hyperplasia    2017
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5161698/

"The mechanism by which androgens promote erythropoiesis is not established.1, 14 There are conflicting results on the effect of testosterone on erythropoietin, the major regulator of erythropoiesis. Some studies have suggested that testosterone increases the erythropoietin production,1, 15 while others found no evidence to support these findings.6, 16 Other possible mechanisms by which testosterone might induce erythropoiesis include a direct effect on bone marrow hematopoietic stem cells by stimulating insulin‐like growth factor 1 and erythrocyte colony‐forming units,17 and increasing intestinal iron absorption and incorporation into erythrocytes.14"

However, that leads to only a 1975 rabbit study - but still it's something, right?
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1081992 tn?1389903637
COMMUNITY LEADER
"Or if I had a tumor the whole time if that could lead to this."
Probably there would have been some sign of that, since 2012. Whether on CBC or blood smear, or else some bump/tumor somewhere besides the marrow popping up. Its possible but not very likely.

Usually in a blood cancer the marrow gets invaded from the original primary site which is outside the marrow - not starting in marrow.

What blood test results are you waiting for?

At this point, a malignancy seems the least likely cause.



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2 Comments
The results I was waiting came back, negative bcrabl1, neg jak2 v6-something, sorry too lazy right now to check actual name, normal b12 binding and methylmalonic, cmp showed slightly elevated  creatinine, and High albumin causing a/g ratio to be slightly high, CBC looks pretty normal except neutrophil percentage is 66 I think.
History of pos Ana, originally 1:160 speckled then another was 1:320, not sure of patterns, another 1:640, most recent was 1:80, also pos ssb without ssa. High Dheas. High prostaglandins d2. Had a  slightly high rbc once. Presence of ovalocytes once. Low normal b6 & b12, now supplementing. Low normal vit. D, supplementing.
Getting a bone scan next week
1081992 tn?1389903637
COMMUNITY LEADER
"Ana pos at one point."
That's usually not helpful, it's more like a fishing expedition when stymied. But just out of curiosity: what was the titer on the ANA? 1:40 or 1:80?
Helpful - 0
1081992 tn?1389903637
COMMUNITY LEADER
Here's a good Discussion section on the mechanism, in an FFT:
Is the haematopoietic effect of testosterone mediated by erythropoietin? The results of a clinical trial in older men   2012

(the result is "no")

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.2047-2927.2012.00009.x

At this point, it looks that having non-elevated EPO isn't anything to be considered relevant.

All in all, I'd be looking at a bone marrow biopsy as the chance to rule out malignancy. Then you can focus on the real cause of the problem.

Feel free with any followup questions :)
Helpful - 0
1081992 tn?1389903637
COMMUNITY LEADER
You've got a lot going on. One thing that stands out to me is the PGD2. Do you randomly get skin flushing? Have many bad allergies, or react really badly to bee stings or heat? No anaphylaxis episodes, right?

I don't know why they want a bone scan rather than a BMB, but that seems to say they are not so worried about a cancer.
Helpful - 0
1 Comments
I get rashes and livedo reticular is, I have had bad reactions to bee sting but no anaphylaxis. Heat, like when it’s really hot outside, annoys me. But when I’m cold in the winter, a heating pad makes me feel so much better.
I believe I have a hormonal imbalance, affecting me systematically, I wish they would check the pituitary.
1081992 tn?1389903637
COMMUNITY LEADER
PGD2 comes from mast cells. There are mast cell disorders such as MCAS, which produce a wide variety of mystery symptoms. Then again, PGD2 is also made in the brain.

It's not usual to be tested for prostaglandins.
Helpful - 0
1 Comments
Pgd2 were tested during work up for dysautonomia ...Anyway, I had the Bone scan done and my results are pretty normal, it suggested mild degenerative changes, no marrow problems. Is it weird that the mri said Diffusely decreased marrow signal on T1 weighted images, nonspecific and bone scan says Slightly increased activity in the mid lumbar spine and in the cervical region is most likely related to degenerative changes...mri said no appreciable degenerative Changes
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