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Reaction to medicine or first miserable herx
Hell All,
Trying to find out if I had a herx or reaction to medicine I am taking for Lyme Disease.
Been taking tindazole twice daily for almost three weeks and started clindamycin IV twice daily four days a week more than a week ago. Have been feeling a little bad, but yesterday things went crazy. Had sore back and stiff neck all day (I always have a stiff neck and headaches at night), and just didn't feel right.
Last night I took tindazole at 9 p.m. and 30 minutes later took tow enzymes. At 10 p.m. I did my 30 minutes of clindamycin. Temperature was normal. By 10:50, I started shaking like I never have before. Best way to describe it is "violently." I had trouble holding the phone to call someone. My temperature started going up and went to 102 within 30 minutes. That's about how long the shaking and chills went on. Also felt nauseated, like I was going to throw up, which I did not do. Temperature stayed at 102 for about 4 hours and has slowly come back down to 99.1 this morning.
Don't know whether to take all my supplements and medication again this morning. For those who have been through this, does that make sense for a herx or reaction to medicine. Felt nothing like that the first week or so. If this w2as a herx, will it continue to do the same each time I take my medicine and supplements?
Thanks.
Trying to find out if I had a herx or reaction to medicine I am taking for Lyme Disease.
Been taking tindazole twice daily for almost three weeks and started clindamycin IV twice daily four days a week more than a week ago. Have been feeling a little bad, but yesterday things went crazy. Had sore back and stiff neck all day (I always have a stiff neck and headaches at night), and just didn't feel right.
Last night I took tindazole at 9 p.m. and 30 minutes later took tow enzymes. At 10 p.m. I did my 30 minutes of clindamycin. Temperature was normal. By 10:50, I started shaking like I never have before. Best way to describe it is "violently." I had trouble holding the phone to call someone. My temperature started going up and went to 102 within 30 minutes. That's about how long the shaking and chills went on. Also felt nauseated, like I was going to throw up, which I did not do. Temperature stayed at 102 for about 4 hours and has slowly come back down to 99.1 this morning.
Don't know whether to take all my supplements and medication again this morning. For those who have been through this, does that make sense for a herx or reaction to medicine. Felt nothing like that the first week or so. If this w2as a herx, will it continue to do the same each time I take my medicine and supplements?
Thanks.
Here is one of my paintings (pastel) before I got sick with Lyme.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/cave76/My%20paintings/youngegrets-2.jpg
It's about 8 x 10 inches
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g11/cave76/My%20paintings/youngegrets-2.jpg
It's about 8 x 10 inches
The ranch was in N. California and was surrounded by a state park, an unpopulated range of mountains and another 10 k acres of a state preserve.
The only sounds we heard were coyotes and wild turkeys. No lights other than ours.
But to bring this back to Lyme---- it had it's drawbacks ---- it was also populated with a LOT of ticks! And when I had to be alone, after I was sick, I had to decide if my symptoms rated a long trip to the ER (or MediVac) and did my own triage------blood pressure, temperature, heart rate, etc.
If they were all WNL (within normal limits) I didn't go to the ER.
The only sounds we heard were coyotes and wild turkeys. No lights other than ours.
But to bring this back to Lyme---- it had it's drawbacks ---- it was also populated with a LOT of ticks! And when I had to be alone, after I was sick, I had to decide if my symptoms rated a long trip to the ER (or MediVac) and did my own triage------blood pressure, temperature, heart rate, etc.
If they were all WNL (within normal limits) I didn't go to the ER.
Where was the ranch? You don't hear about many people being raised on a ranch anymore. Must have been fun. You must be a good painter to win ANY awards. I can assure you that is a tal;ent I lack in and respect those who do well at it.
I saw your earlier post but didn't notice it was posted that same day. :(
I guess you're doing things with your children today and week-end----- check back in when the dust settles. (grin)
I never played golf. But I started taking English riding lessons when I was too old to start them. A hold-over from my parents not letting me have a horse when I was a kid. LOL
Was given several really fine horses by a woman who taught dressage but these horses didn't quite make the mark for Olympic work. And since I lived on a large ranch, keeping them was no problem.
I also started painting (art) ---- never got out of the novice range but did win some awards. Then Lyme took everything away from me. Now I have my computer and a brain and get to research 'from the comfort of my own home, as seen on TV'. This allows me to irritate a lot of people. LOL
I guess you're doing things with your children today and week-end----- check back in when the dust settles. (grin)
I never played golf. But I started taking English riding lessons when I was too old to start them. A hold-over from my parents not letting me have a horse when I was a kid. LOL
Was given several really fine horses by a woman who taught dressage but these horses didn't quite make the mark for Olympic work. And since I lived on a large ranch, keeping them was no problem.
I also started painting (art) ---- never got out of the novice range but did win some awards. Then Lyme took everything away from me. Now I have my computer and a brain and get to research 'from the comfort of my own home, as seen on TV'. This allows me to irritate a lot of people. LOL
Yes. Thanks for asking. You might have missed my earlier post. And would love to be playing golf, which I used to do often. You play? I was much more a competitive runner than golfer, but golf is a great sport.
I have been taking the supplements one at a time then waiting for any reaction. Nothing happened today. Not sure what to do. I need to eradicate the bugs, but the thought of trying the meds again right now is not an exciting thought. My body needs a break, and I will have my kids for the next few days. Also want to go to their cross country meet at University of GA (it's a high school meet). Just want to feel well enough for that.
I am wondering if this is ever able to be conquered. Have always been up for a challenge, but I read about so many people who never get well. I've had this a while, so I figure it's "set in" pretty well, hence the severe reaction?
Are you able to function well and do things you need to do? Just read about Darryl Hall's story from Hall and Oates. And your immune information is good info. But I do know if I get real stressed or mow the yard (grass pollen), I feel much worse. Just trying to figure out how to build immune system up the right way.
I have been taking the supplements one at a time then waiting for any reaction. Nothing happened today. Not sure what to do. I need to eradicate the bugs, but the thought of trying the meds again right now is not an exciting thought. My body needs a break, and I will have my kids for the next few days. Also want to go to their cross country meet at University of GA (it's a high school meet). Just want to feel well enough for that.
I am wondering if this is ever able to be conquered. Have always been up for a challenge, but I read about so many people who never get well. I've had this a while, so I figure it's "set in" pretty well, hence the severe reaction?
Are you able to function well and do things you need to do? Just read about Darryl Hall's story from Hall and Oates. And your immune information is good info. But I do know if I get real stressed or mow the yard (grass pollen), I feel much worse. Just trying to figure out how to build immune system up the right way.
Murph----- are you o.k.? A bit concerned since we haven't heard from you today. Perhaps you're at the doctors? Or playing golf? (grin)
Thanks, Murph.
One of my many favorite topics---- the immune system. Followed closely by detoxing. :)
Excerpted from The Truth About Your Immune System, a Special Health Report from Harvard Health Publications
"Be skeptical
Many products on store shelves claim to boost or support immunity. But the concept of boosting immunity actually makes little sense scientifically."
"Many researchers are trying to explore the effects of a variety of factors — from foods and herbal supplements to exercise and stress — on immunity. Some take measures of certain blood components like lymphocytes or cytokines. But thus far, no one really knows what these measurements mean in terms of your body’s ability to fight disease. They provide a way of detecting whether something is going on, but science isn’t yet sufficiently advanced to understand how this translates into success in warding off disease."
" Demonstrating whether an herb — or any substance, for that matter — can enhance immunity is, as yet, a highly complicated matter. "
For a doctor to become an immunologist s/he has to go for two years more after finishing medical school. That makes a total of 13 years of study aimed towards that immunologists degree.
Personally I fail to understand how a few herbs or supplements can replace that. Surely, since Immunology is research-centered they would have found that some of the drugs and enzymes that are given might have helped.
One of my many favorite topics---- the immune system. Followed closely by detoxing. :)
Excerpted from The Truth About Your Immune System, a Special Health Report from Harvard Health Publications
"Be skeptical
Many products on store shelves claim to boost or support immunity. But the concept of boosting immunity actually makes little sense scientifically."
"Many researchers are trying to explore the effects of a variety of factors — from foods and herbal supplements to exercise and stress — on immunity. Some take measures of certain blood components like lymphocytes or cytokines. But thus far, no one really knows what these measurements mean in terms of your body’s ability to fight disease. They provide a way of detecting whether something is going on, but science isn’t yet sufficiently advanced to understand how this translates into success in warding off disease."
" Demonstrating whether an herb — or any substance, for that matter — can enhance immunity is, as yet, a highly complicated matter. "
For a doctor to become an immunologist s/he has to go for two years more after finishing medical school. That makes a total of 13 years of study aimed towards that immunologists degree.
Personally I fail to understand how a few herbs or supplements can replace that. Surely, since Immunology is research-centered they would have found that some of the drugs and enzymes that are given might have helped.
I am with you on the Myers Cocktail. I have had enough with this one pic line in. Don't have the urge to try anything else new. Enough new. Having trouble with the old :)
And I wouldn't ask your opinion if I didn't appreciate it and take it into consideration. I'm not the type who gets offended by much of anything, and you have written nothing but helpful information. It's always appreciated.
And I wouldn't ask your opinion if I didn't appreciate it and take it into consideration. I'm not the type who gets offended by much of anything, and you have written nothing but helpful information. It's always appreciated.
I'm treading on thin ice here and will stop replying if you prefer.
I will, however, probably start a new thread where you aren't involved purely in the interest of science based information. Let me know.
But since you haven't started the Myers' Cocktail yet------ I'll post some information about it. But of course the final decision is yours and I defend your right to choose whatever you choose.
Just for a start--the simplest explanation is:
" All [ingredients in a Myers' Cocktail] are easily absorbed through the GI tract, thus raising the question of why they are given intravenously, which is both more dangerous and more expensive than a pill."
One of my finds:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicineu.org/a-closer-look-at-vitamin-injections/#more-26273
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers'_cocktail
I will, however, probably start a new thread where you aren't involved purely in the interest of science based information. Let me know.
But since you haven't started the Myers' Cocktail yet------ I'll post some information about it. But of course the final decision is yours and I defend your right to choose whatever you choose.
Just for a start--the simplest explanation is:
" All [ingredients in a Myers' Cocktail] are easily absorbed through the GI tract, thus raising the question of why they are given intravenously, which is both more dangerous and more expensive than a pill."
One of my finds:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicineu.org/a-closer-look-at-vitamin-injections/#more-26273
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers'_cocktail
Yes, Cave 76. I've been taking the supplements for months, which is why I was surprised when I had the reaction I did. That's why I am beginning to believe the tindazole helped break open cysts/biofilm? and now even the transfer factor is causing a reaction. At least that's a guess.
And if that's the case, I guess I am a walking toxic waste dump. Started really working on detoxing, which is what I should have been doing all along more. Bought charcoal tabs, more epsom salt, a dry bristle brush, etc...
The supplements - Enhansa Repair from Lee Silsby, Transfer Factor LymPlus, twice a day (but not again today), interfase plus enzymes (6 day) Innate Plant Enzyme (1 a day), Innate Innate Flora (50-14). Also multiple vitamin, Vit. D3, B Complex, collagen with C, Natural iron (I tend to run low) .
I really need to boost my immune system and detox for sure. My doctor has mentioned a Myers Coctail, but haven't done one.
Just know I will take tonight off from any more stuff as my body is dead from all the shaking and fever. At the same time, I want to go after the Lyme stuff.
And if that's the case, I guess I am a walking toxic waste dump. Started really working on detoxing, which is what I should have been doing all along more. Bought charcoal tabs, more epsom salt, a dry bristle brush, etc...
The supplements - Enhansa Repair from Lee Silsby, Transfer Factor LymPlus, twice a day (but not again today), interfase plus enzymes (6 day) Innate Plant Enzyme (1 a day), Innate Innate Flora (50-14). Also multiple vitamin, Vit. D3, B Complex, collagen with C, Natural iron (I tend to run low) .
I really need to boost my immune system and detox for sure. My doctor has mentioned a Myers Coctail, but haven't done one.
Just know I will take tonight off from any more stuff as my body is dead from all the shaking and fever. At the same time, I want to go after the Lyme stuff.
"Enhansa repair, two enzymes and LymPlus Transfer Factor. "
A HA! (grin)
Since you continued to get a reaction without Clind. or Tindi. then what's left? The supplements. But before I get carried away with 'blaming' them----- you've probably been taking them for a while right?
I'm not an across-the-board proponent of supplements. I have the same suspicious mind about them as I do with any medicine I'm told to take.
Perhaps even more---- for they have no regulation at all; not even the somewhat flawed regulatory processes that drugs do!
Would you post here (or send me a P.M.) with the brand names and dosages that you take of all supplements?
Your doc must think its a herx and I asked a Lymie friend of mine if she ever had fever from herxes and she has.
As I was told, herxing is a good thing, meaning the bugs are being killed off and their toxins are giving you the herx.
Cholestryamine is recommended by Burascano for detox. Many people take it that I know.
As I was told, herxing is a good thing, meaning the bugs are being killed off and their toxins are giving you the herx.
Cholestryamine is recommended by Burascano for detox. Many people take it that I know.
Sorry to keep bugging you with this, but your information has always been appreciated and your honesty is needed. So thanks.
Here's what happened about 11 this morning - I DID NOT take tindazole or clindy, but just took Enhansa repair, two enzymes and LymPlus Transfer Factor.
Was surprised to find within 20 minutes I was shaking bad again and within 30 minutes temp went to 104.5. Shook about 225 minutes again, and temp is slowly coming down. That may indicate herx reaction? I have contacted my doctor with that question and asked him if I should be detoxing more. He has ordered cholesyramine to help with bacteria absorbtion. I've never heard of it. This is one of the lowest points of my life, as I'm sure we have all been there through this.
If you treat the bacteria, it's an overeaction, and if you don't things continue as they were.
Thanks for listening (reading), and I agree that sugar coating does no good. The more information, the better.
Here's what happened about 11 this morning - I DID NOT take tindazole or clindy, but just took Enhansa repair, two enzymes and LymPlus Transfer Factor.
Was surprised to find within 20 minutes I was shaking bad again and within 30 minutes temp went to 104.5. Shook about 225 minutes again, and temp is slowly coming down. That may indicate herx reaction? I have contacted my doctor with that question and asked him if I should be detoxing more. He has ordered cholesyramine to help with bacteria absorbtion. I've never heard of it. This is one of the lowest points of my life, as I'm sure we have all been there through this.
If you treat the bacteria, it's an overeaction, and if you don't things continue as they were.
Thanks for listening (reading), and I agree that sugar coating does no good. The more information, the better.
What I'm about to say is not a doctor's advice.
I would have not taken more clind. after getting the same reaction again----- and in lieu of knowing exactly WHAT caused it and how safe it is to get that type of reaction---- I think you're right in stopping clind. until you get a definitive answer from your doctor.
The 105 fever would worry me, but unless it stayed there for a long time "probably" not dangerous
I've been faulted for giving 'scary' information----- but sugar-coating everything isn't the best way to go about helping people.
So, here goes------ and please remember that I'm NOT saying this is what your reaction is---- but just another fact to consider.
Cytokine storm.
It MIGHT be very dangerous. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Lyme specifically but it is mentioned a lot in the Lyme forums as a herx. But when is a herx dangerous and when is it something to be 'thankful for'? I've had many herxes/cytokine storms but never one as severe as the ones you had---- if that what they are.
The information I've read about it doesn't really clarify it for me and there's a lot of speculation about it. I think it's a matter of degree----- how severe it is.
Please keep us posted.
I would have not taken more clind. after getting the same reaction again----- and in lieu of knowing exactly WHAT caused it and how safe it is to get that type of reaction---- I think you're right in stopping clind. until you get a definitive answer from your doctor.
The 105 fever would worry me, but unless it stayed there for a long time "probably" not dangerous
I've been faulted for giving 'scary' information----- but sugar-coating everything isn't the best way to go about helping people.
So, here goes------ and please remember that I'm NOT saying this is what your reaction is---- but just another fact to consider.
Cytokine storm.
It MIGHT be very dangerous. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Lyme specifically but it is mentioned a lot in the Lyme forums as a herx. But when is a herx dangerous and when is it something to be 'thankful for'? I've had many herxes/cytokine storms but never one as severe as the ones you had---- if that what they are.
The information I've read about it doesn't really clarify it for me and there's a lot of speculation about it. I think it's a matter of degree----- how severe it is.
Please keep us posted.
I am concerned with your fever at 105 it could be a herx and a reaction.
You are smart to ask your doctor. I never got fevers so I can't say for sure but I might call the office because your temp was so high and you stopped the dosage.
Keep us updated, ok?
You are smart to ask your doctor. I never got fevers so I can't say for sure but I might call the office because your temp was so high and you stopped the dosage.
Keep us updated, ok?
You two always respond, which is much appreciated. Thank you.
Took the clindamycin about 11 this morning, and by 11:30, the whole scenerio started up again, only worse this time. More shaking for 30 minutes and this time my temperature went up to 105.7 and stayed at 103-104 for hours. Now normal. My doctor said the first one could be a herx, but I just sent him a message concerning the second episode.
My body cannot take another whatever this is again. Did not take meds tonight until I hear from him. Not sure he even knows what to do. Just thought if it was the meds, this would take place earlier or maybe it has just built up to toxic levels
Took the clindamycin about 11 this morning, and by 11:30, the whole scenerio started up again, only worse this time. More shaking for 30 minutes and this time my temperature went up to 105.7 and stayed at 103-104 for hours. Now normal. My doctor said the first one could be a herx, but I just sent him a message concerning the second episode.
My body cannot take another whatever this is again. Did not take meds tonight until I hear from him. Not sure he even knows what to do. Just thought if it was the meds, this would take place earlier or maybe it has just built up to toxic levels
It certainly would give me cause for alarm, even though it might be 'just' a herx. If it is---- it's a pretty severe one and calling your doctor would be the best idea. The timing is about right for a herx----- but I'm not qualified to say it is one and not an adverse side effect.
If your doctor says to continue with the IV what I would do is to ask him if you should infuse for a longer time. Sometimes that helps prevent a severe reaction. What dose of IV Clind. are you taking?
http://www.rxlist.com/cleocin-iv-drug/indications-dosage.htm
"If this was a herx, will it continue to do the same each time I take my medicine and supplements? "
I don't think even your doctor could answer that question. Sorry. I'm sorry if I seem to be of no help but there's no clear cut answer. I always felt like I was a guinea pig. :(
Please contact your doctor, if you haven't already. He MIGHT (emphasis on 'might') lower your dose for a while or suggest something to help you through.
If your doctor says to continue with the IV what I would do is to ask him if you should infuse for a longer time. Sometimes that helps prevent a severe reaction. What dose of IV Clind. are you taking?
http://www.rxlist.com/cleocin-iv-drug/indications-dosage.htm
"If this was a herx, will it continue to do the same each time I take my medicine and supplements? "
I don't think even your doctor could answer that question. Sorry. I'm sorry if I seem to be of no help but there's no clear cut answer. I always felt like I was a guinea pig. :(
Please contact your doctor, if you haven't already. He MIGHT (emphasis on 'might') lower your dose for a while or suggest something to help you through.
Are you able to contact your Dr?
It is hard to really to say for certain if what you had was a herx or a reaction. Everyone is different in the way we herx.
I wouldn't say to stop the medication without talking with the Dr. I remember throwing up a lot at the start of treatment. The pains all over just not the fever and shaking.
I use to herx every 4 weeks like clock work, others don't get the cycles. Now after 2 years my herxes are much calmer.
I hope you can reach your Dr. If he/she thinks its a herx there are things to take like activated charcoal 3 hours before or after your meds.
Keep us posted. Good luck.
It is hard to really to say for certain if what you had was a herx or a reaction. Everyone is different in the way we herx.
I wouldn't say to stop the medication without talking with the Dr. I remember throwing up a lot at the start of treatment. The pains all over just not the fever and shaking.
I use to herx every 4 weeks like clock work, others don't get the cycles. Now after 2 years my herxes are much calmer.
I hope you can reach your Dr. If he/she thinks its a herx there are things to take like activated charcoal 3 hours before or after your meds.
Keep us posted. Good luck.
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